Shrike Models

 
  Phantom47 Locomotive Driver

Location: In The Shire
The only reason I have asked weather they were still going to do the RX because the local model shop where I have one on order has a lot of other orders for the RX model ?
redhen
If you ordered a model through a model shop your contract is with the model shop not Shrike Models. Fair Trading always says the retailer taking the order is you first port of call for a refund.

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  redhen Station Staff

I have been informed that the RX model wasn't going to happen
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Redhen, if you've been told that, and if you brought them from a shop, you need to get a refund from the retailer that you brought the (ANY) product from.
  redhen Station Staff

I thought that there was something up from the start so all I did was order one with my local model shop but haven't payed any money .
Because I was waiting to see the model first before paying any money for this model. I  got in touch  with my local model shop and they tolled me that the RX project wasn't going to happen.
  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT
I have been tolled by my local model shop  that the RX project isn't going to happen
redhen


I thought that there was something up from the start so all I did was order one with my local model shop but haven't payed any money .
Because I was waiting to see the model first before paying any money for this model. I  got in touch  with my local model shop and they tolled me that the RX project wasn't going to happen.
redhen

The hobby shop tolled you? wow, haven't heard that before.... I usually pay tolls on roads..... I don't think I've ever paid tolls at a hobby shop...

Live and learn I guess.... Laughing
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

Geoff Hope has found our deposits and is going to refund us all our hard earned cash...

Ah smeg, that was yesterday, damn....


Paul
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

On a more serious note, has anyone had contact with Shrike or followed things through further with the relevant authorities (Fair Trading, etc) on what can be done or what is the next step?

Paul
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
On a more serious note, has anyone had contact with Shrike or followed things through further with the relevant authorities (Fair Trading, etc) on what can be done or what is the next step?

Paul
"FirstStopCentral"


ASIC still shows the company as deregistered, those who have placed orders are "unsecured creditors". Steps such people can take are noted in the relevant section ("Unsecured creditors") at http://asic.gov.au/for-business/closing-your-company/effects-of-deregistration/a-deregistered-company-owes-you-money/ . In short you have to get the Federal or Supreme Court to order ASIC to reinstate the registration (this will cost you money), then you have to start your second legal battle to try to get money out of Shrike (this will also cost you).

Separate to the that, anyone can contact ASIC if they have evidence (not speculation, gossip from forums or a general grievance - we're talking real hard evidence that would stand up in a criminal court) that Shrike was not adhering to it's legal requirements such as trading while insolvent, or Benjamin Lord / AussieHO style "no product ever existed" type fraud,  or vesting of company assets to another entity for the unlawful financial gain of a person instead of the company and its creditors.  On the bright side, many of us had seen the C30T pre-production models in the flesh so at least the AussieHO scenario was not being repeated.
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

On a more serious note, has anyone had contact with Shrike or followed things through further with the relevant authorities (Fair Trading, etc) on what can be done or what is the next step?

Paul
"FirstStopCentral"


ASIC still shows the company as deregistered, those who have placed orders are "unsecured creditors". Steps such people can take are noted in the relevant section ("Unsecured creditors") at http://asic.gov.au/for-business/closing-your-company/effects-of-deregistration/a-deregistered-company-owes-you-money/ . In short you have to get the Federal or Supreme Court to order ASIC to reinstate the registration (this will cost you money), then you have to start your second legal battle to try to get money out of Shrike (this will also cost you).

Separate to the that, anyone can contact ASIC if they have evidence (not speculation, gossip from forums or a general grievance - we're talking real hard evidence that would stand up in a criminal court) that Shrike was not adhering to it's legal requirements such as trading while insolvent, or Benjamin Lord / AussieHO style "no product ever existed" type fraud,  or vesting of company assets to another entity for the unlawful financial gain of a person instead of the company and its creditors.  On the bright side, many of us had seen the C30T pre-production models in the flesh so at least the AussieHO scenario was not being repeated.
"Poath Junction"


http://www.shrike-models.com/414126252

Shrike models still have their website up where you can still place orders for their projects  ( 30T & Rx class ) and deposit money into their accounts for those people who still don't know what is going on .

So that could be trading while insolvent ?
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.

http://www.shrike-models.com/414126252

Shrike models still have their website up where you can still place orders for their projects  ( 30T & Rx class ) and deposit money into their accounts for those people who still don't know what is going on .

So that could be trading while insolvent ?
BIG-BEAR


The facebook page with that pricing/payment info still exists too. Such issues would possibly, if being actively promoted by Shrike, be deemed as an individual running an unregistered company (Shrike can't be trading while insolvent as the company is deregistered and therefore can't trade, whether insolvent or solvent). Clearly the date and content of last web updates show the sites are for all intents idle leftovers that simple need to be removed or updated with a relevant "out of business" message. Before getting too excited about "fraud, crime, lynch him" and suchlike you need to remember this is an ASIC decision to deregister the company so things will happen in reverse to a decision where a company voluntarily ceases trading. ie Normally you stop active company/business activities, tidy everything up and the very last thing is the legal process to end the company. With the forced deregistration the business/company owner still has certain legal obligations to tie up all the loose ends, including but not limited to meeting their tax and corporate responsibilities for events in the past, and finalizing the shutdown of all the business/company related issues including things such as removing websites and facebook pages and closing bank accounts related to the business/company. If you're in control of the website and know what you're doing it's dead easy to take it off the air, 5 seconds and it's done. If you need a 3rd party to do that it is not always so simple, and not always a quick process. If the business/company owner (or someone acting as their power of attorney) is not in a position to tie up all those lose ends, such as when the business/company records have been left in a giant mess then yes, things will be on the web that aren't reflecting the current state of the business/company.    

If you want to report the website as an issue to ASIC go ahead. I'm pretty sure ASIC will take one look at their records, see it's only been a fortnight since the forced deregistration, and then do diddly squat as such issues will have been noted in the letter sent to Shrike by ASIC when the deregistration took place (ie letter from ASIC to Shrike was issued on or after 19/3/16 that will point out all their legal obligations).

edit: amended some references to the word 'business' to 'company' as ASIC deals with companies. Most don't know (or really care) what the difference between a company and a business is, but its best to keep the general concepts as accurate as possible. It's a bit like the "all yachts are boats, not all boats are yachts" concept.
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
I have just sent a strongly worded email to Austrains regarding this paragraph of their most recent newsletter in which they have announced they will be making a C30T:  

"Our SPECIAL offer still applies to those who have placed orders for C30T class locos with another company and can

prove, to our satisfaction, that they have received a full refund of their deposits, we will supply them with an equivalent number of Austrains C30 Tanks and C30T’s at the price of $495.00. FUNNY though, we still haven’t had anyone take us up on our previous offer."

Yes, those two words were in caps in the original.  

For those of us who have been in contact with Ixion Models regarding their very generous offer, this would seem to potentially put their plans to make Shrike's 30T, and that special offer to those of us who lost our money, in jeopardy.  

I do understand that business is business, but to me, this seems like an unnecessarily aggressive move that targets another manufacturer who has been very understanding and compassionate, whilst also being condescending to those of us who don't have another $500 to spend on a model.  

I am however interested in what others think about this...
  a6et Minister for Railways

I have just sent a strongly worded email to Austrains regarding this paragraph of their most recent newsletter in which they have announced they will be making a C30T:  

"Our SPECIAL offer still applies to those who have placed orders for C30T class locos with another company and can

prove, to our satisfaction, that they have received a full refund of their deposits, we will supply them with an equivalent number of Austrains C30 Tanks and C30T’s at the price of $495.00. FUNNY though, we still haven’t had anyone take us up on our previous offer."

Yes, those two words were in caps in the original.  

For those of us who have been in contact with Ixion Models regarding their very generous offer, this would seem to potentially put their plans to make Shrike's 30T, and that special offer to those of us who lost our money, in jeopardy.  

I do understand that business is business, but to me, this seems like an unnecessarily aggressive move that targets another manufacturer who has been very understanding and compassionate, whilst also being condescending to those of us who don't have another $500 to spend on a model.  

I am however interested in what others think about this...
TheFish
From what I understand and, I am one who will be affected by this is that the reason that John Eassie has not received any responses to his offer is that Ixion is not prepared to give a refund to those who have paid out money to the previous owner of the Shrike brand.

Earlier there was a report that those taking up the offer had to show bank deposit of the refund &/or other proof that the refund had been made and was genuine.  The catch in the offer really is that Ixion who now owns the Shrike toolings themselves will not refund any money to those who have paid for the Shrike models, they have to get it from the former owner, so unless the owner can refund the money, then its a non offer.

The other aspect in this also is that when I gave the production run sample a good going over at Liverpool last year without having any scale rules and the like I would say its the most accurate model I have yet seen in the steam RTR models so far produced, that along with the said situation that the final payment money was ready to be transferred to the factory and should be here prior to Christmas last, I put my money up for one. Had the events that followed happened prior to then I would not have paid up front. Something I no longer do until I know a model is at least under production and I have seen the final production sample.

I believe that the Austrains model may be a better model if it has the metal bolier, with minimal cast in detail, forget the rivet detail being that big a problem but more noticeable items such as oil lines almost all end up as blobs, with little and no definition. If such things like the funnel and domes are also seperate then we wont have the terrible 2 joins as found in the Ixion 32cl either. (I did not see evidence of that in the 30T, but that's likely a factory assembly guality issue).  May be better for the haulage ability of the model owing to what seems to be some sensible design items with the model.

The problem for me is that while in one sense I would be sort of happy to pay the extra money to Ixion for the 30T, I wonder where I and others in the same position stand if the model comes out not to the standard that it was when the decision was made to purchase it. To get a refund and return the model means you would likely only get the $85.00 from them.

Other aspect is that we still wait to see when Ixion has made enough 32cl sales to get the 30T into production, seems a bit of an open ended thing that we may not know for some time. Also those who have fully paid for the models at what part of the models run will they be placed at, in receiving their model?

There is hardly any news on their blog and home pages these days, and for those not on FB, how will they know what is going on with the model, unless there is a post here on RP?

For me, I would be more than happy to have a refund of the money I paid, show the details to Austrains but, then sit back and compare the Ixion 30T to the Austrains model and get the one that I prefer.
  gw0071 Deputy Commissioner

Ironic

Has anybody else tried to get a refund from JE for previous products?

CTTT ring a bell with anyone?
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
I have just sent a strongly worded email to Austrains regarding this paragraph of their most recent newsletter in which they have announced they will be making a C30T:  

"Our SPECIAL offer still applies to those who have placed orders for C30T class locos with another company and can

prove, to our satisfaction, that they have received a full refund of their deposits, we will supply them with an equivalent number of Austrains C30 Tanks and C30T’s at the price of $495.00. FUNNY though, we still haven’t had anyone take us up on our previous offer."

Yes, those two words were in caps in the original.  

For those of us who have been in contact with Ixion Models regarding their very generous offer, this would seem to potentially put their plans to make Shrike's 30T, and that special offer to those of us who lost our money, in jeopardy.  

I do understand that business is business, but to me, this seems like an unnecessarily aggressive move that targets another manufacturer who has been very understanding and compassionate, whilst also being condescending to those of us who don't have another $500 to spend on a model.  

I am however interested in what others think about this...
TheFish

So have you also read the "Comment" in the latest issue of AMRM then?

It is located directly opposite the usual Austrains full page advert inside the front cover, which discusses their 30 class proposed model......with typical wording similar to the newsletter.

After reading the "comment" and then looking across to the left, It felt like I had just eaten a lemon...or an onion for that matter.

Regards

Catchpoint
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
I have just sent a strongly worded email to Austrains regarding this paragraph of their most recent newsletter in which they have announced they will be making a C30T:  

"Our SPECIAL offer still applies to those who have placed orders for C30T class locos with another company and can

prove, to our satisfaction, that they have received a full refund of their deposits, we will supply them with an equivalent number of Austrains C30 Tanks and C30T’s at the price of $495.00. FUNNY though, we still haven’t had anyone take us up on our previous offer."

Yes, those two words were in caps in the original.  

For those of us who have been in contact with Ixion Models regarding their very generous offer, this would seem to potentially put their plans to make Shrike's 30T, and that special offer to those of us who lost our money, in jeopardy.  

I do understand that business is business, but to me, this seems like an unnecessarily aggressive move that targets another manufacturer who has been very understanding and compassionate, whilst also being condescending to those of us who don't have another $500 to spend on a model.  

I am however interested in what others think about this...

So have you also read the "Comment" in the latest issue of AMRM then?

It is located directly opposite the usual Austrains full page advert inside the front cover, which discusses their 30 class proposed model......with typical wording similar to the newsletter.

After reading the "comment" and then looking across to the left, It felt like I had just eaten a lemon...or an onion for that matter.

Regards

Catchpoint
catchpoint
I'm out of the country at the moment so haven't had a chance to.  Was the comment from Austrains?
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
I have just sent a strongly worded email to Austrains regarding this paragraph of their most recent newsletter in which they have announced they will be making a C30T:  

"Our SPECIAL offer still applies to those who have placed orders for C30T class locos with another company and can

prove, to our satisfaction, that they have received a full refund of their deposits, we will supply them with an equivalent number of Austrains C30 Tanks and C30T’s at the price of $495.00. FUNNY though, we still haven’t had anyone take us up on our previous offer."

Yes, those two words were in caps in the original.  

For those of us who have been in contact with Ixion Models regarding their very generous offer, this would seem to potentially put their plans to make Shrike's 30T, and that special offer to those of us who lost our money, in jeopardy.  

I do understand that business is business, but to me, this seems like an unnecessarily aggressive move that targets another manufacturer who has been very understanding and compassionate, whilst also being condescending to those of us who don't have another $500 to spend on a model.  

I am however interested in what others think about this...
From what I understand and, I am one who will be affected by this is that the reason that John Eassie has not received any responses to his offer is that Ixion is not prepared to give a refund to those who have paid out money to the previous owner of the Shrike brand.

Earlier there was a report that those taking up the offer had to show bank deposit of the refund &/or other proof that the refund had been made and was genuine.  The catch in the offer really is that Ixion who now owns the Shrike toolings themselves will not refund any money to those who have paid for the Shrike models, they have to get it from the former owner, so unless the owner can refund the money, then its a non offer.

The other aspect in this also is that when I gave the production run sample a good going over at Liverpool last year without having any scale rules and the like I would say its the most accurate model I have yet seen in the steam RTR models so far produced, that along with the said situation that the final payment money was ready to be transferred to the factory and should be here prior to Christmas last, I put my money up for one. Had the events that followed happened prior to then I would not have paid up front. Something I no longer do until I know a model is at least under production and I have seen the final production sample.

I believe that the Austrains model may be a better model if it has the metal bolier, with minimal cast in detail, forget the rivet detail being that big a problem but more noticeable items such as oil lines almost all end up as blobs, with little and no definition. If such things like the funnel and domes are also seperate then we wont have the terrible 2 joins as found in the Ixion 32cl either. (I did not see evidence of that in the 30T, but that's likely a factory assembly guality issue).  May be better for the haulage ability of the model owing to what seems to be some sensible design items with the model.

The problem for me is that while in one sense I would be sort of happy to pay the extra money to Ixion for the 30T, I wonder where I and others in the same position stand if the model comes out not to the standard that it was when the decision was made to purchase it. To get a refund and return the model means you would likely only get the $85.00 from them.

Other aspect is that we still wait to see when Ixion has made enough 32cl sales to get the 30T into production, seems a bit of an open ended thing that we may not know for some time. Also those who have fully paid for the models at what part of the models run will they be placed at, in receiving their model?

There is hardly any news on their blog and home pages these days, and for those not on FB, how will they know what is going on with the model, unless there is a post here on RP?

For me, I would be more than happy to have a refund of the money I paid, show the details to Austrains but, then sit back and compare the Ixion 30T to the Austrains model and get the one that I prefer.
a6et
I know what you mean.  The thing is it would seem a refund from Shrike will now never happen for us.  So if we don't get a refund it seems as if Austrains are saying we would have to pay full price.  The logical, and kind thing, for them to say is that they would give a reduced price model to anyone who could prove they had paid Shrike in the first place.  

To me, the Ixion offer, as I understand it, is a better one because I only have to prove to them I paid the money to Shrike and it only means being an extra $85 out of pocket.  Austrains would have known Ixion took on this project and they seem to just be trying to ride over the top of them.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I have just sent a strongly worded email to Austrains regarding this paragraph of their most recent newsletter in which they have announced they will be making a C30T:  

"Our SPECIAL offer still applies to those who have placed orders for C30T class locos with another company and can

prove, to our satisfaction, that they have received a full refund of their deposits, we will supply them with an equivalent number of Austrains C30 Tanks and C30T’s at the price of $495.00. FUNNY though, we still haven’t had anyone take us up on our previous offer."

Yes, those two words were in caps in the original.  

For those of us who have been in contact with Ixion Models regarding their very generous offer, this would seem to potentially put their plans to make Shrike's 30T, and that special offer to those of us who lost our money, in jeopardy.  

I do understand that business is business, but to me, this seems like an unnecessarily aggressive move that targets another manufacturer who has been very understanding and compassionate, whilst also being condescending to those of us who don't have another $500 to spend on a model.  

I am however interested in what others think about this...
From what I understand and, I am one who will be affected by this is that the reason that John Eassie has not received any responses to his offer is that Ixion is not prepared to give a refund to those who have paid out money to the previous owner of the Shrike brand.

Earlier there was a report that those taking up the offer had to show bank deposit of the refund &/or other proof that the refund had been made and was genuine.  The catch in the offer really is that Ixion who now owns the Shrike toolings themselves will not refund any money to those who have paid for the Shrike models, they have to get it from the former owner, so unless the owner can refund the money, then its a non offer.

The other aspect in this also is that when I gave the production run sample a good going over at Liverpool last year without having any scale rules and the like I would say its the most accurate model I have yet seen in the steam RTR models so far produced, that along with the said situation that the final payment money was ready to be transferred to the factory and should be here prior to Christmas last, I put my money up for one. Had the events that followed happened prior to then I would not have paid up front. Something I no longer do until I know a model is at least under production and I have seen the final production sample.

I believe that the Austrains model may be a better model if it has the metal bolier, with minimal cast in detail, forget the rivet detail being that big a problem but more noticeable items such as oil lines almost all end up as blobs, with little and no definition. If such things like the funnel and domes are also seperate then we wont have the terrible 2 joins as found in the Ixion 32cl either. (I did not see evidence of that in the 30T, but that's likely a factory assembly guality issue).  May be better for the haulage ability of the model owing to what seems to be some sensible design items with the model.

The problem for me is that while in one sense I would be sort of happy to pay the extra money to Ixion for the 30T, I wonder where I and others in the same position stand if the model comes out not to the standard that it was when the decision was made to purchase it. To get a refund and return the model means you would likely only get the $85.00 from them.

Other aspect is that we still wait to see when Ixion has made enough 32cl sales to get the 30T into production, seems a bit of an open ended thing that we may not know for some time. Also those who have fully paid for the models at what part of the models run will they be placed at, in receiving their model?

There is hardly any news on their blog and home pages these days, and for those not on FB, how will they know what is going on with the model, unless there is a post here on RP?

For me, I would be more than happy to have a refund of the money I paid, show the details to Austrains but, then sit back and compare the Ixion 30T to the Austrains model and get the one that I prefer.
I know what you mean.  The thing is it would seem a refund from Shrike will now never happen for us.  So if we don't get a refund it seems as if Austrains are saying we would have to pay full price.  The logical, and kind thing, for them to say is that they would give a reduced price model to anyone who could prove they had paid Shrike in the first place.  

To me, the Ixion offer, as I understand it, is a better one because I only have to prove to them I paid the money to Shrike and it only means being an extra $85 out of pocket.  Austrains would have known Ixion took on this project and they seem to just be trying to ride over the top of them.
TheFish
Fish, there are a lot of unanswered questions to me in this whole schemozle, first off is why has the owner of Shrike gone quiet in regard to the whole issue?  Dare I suggest that he has been forced into some sort of agreement with the mob who purchased the toolings?

If the money was there to pay the factory, and every part of the project was going to plan, what happened to stop it from happening?  Who was the mystery mob the new owner of the toolings, that they were purchased from? Big Mystery for mine.

Why really is there a need to pay extra for a model that was fully paid for? I tend to think that as the toolings were complete and ready to go, no extra money should have been needed for the production and shipment.  Or was some of the money to go towards other items being produced and not for the 30T?  Again, we will never know, but there are some that do know.

In the end what you say is probably true, the best deal, if you can call it that is the cheap option to pay $85.00 to Ixion to get a model otherwise you get nothing.  Great choice isn't it, for something you paid for in good faith and you just get screwed to pay extra.
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
So have you also read the "Comment" in the latest issue of AMRM then?

It is located directly opposite the usual Austrains full page advert inside the front cover, which discusses their 30 class proposed model......with typical wording similar to the newsletter.

After reading the "comment" and then looking across to the left, It felt like I had just eaten a lemon...or an onion for that matter.

Regards

Catchpoint
I'm out of the country at the moment so haven't had a chance to.  Was the comment from Austrains?
TheFish

No the "Comment" column is / was not written by Austrains.

As noted above the "Comment" column in the latest AMRM is directly opposite a full page "Austrains" advertisement announcing their 30 class model proclaiming "How a RTR steam loco should be made"....

While the "comment" column is a wafty piece about Dept of Fair trading etc. and how the consumer has rights, should be protected and how that all relates to the Australian Model Railway producers / importers etc. and with a warm iron and some lemon juice you "could" read between the lines about the Shrike 30T.

But so far nothing has really been done or said for that matter

Regards,

Catchpoint
  a6et Minister for Railways

So have you also read the "Comment" in the latest issue of AMRM then?

It is located directly opposite the usual Austrains full page advert inside the front cover, which discusses their 30 class proposed model......with typical wording similar to the newsletter.

After reading the "comment" and then looking across to the left, It felt like I had just eaten a lemon...or an onion for that matter.

Regards

Catchpoint
I'm out of the country at the moment so haven't had a chance to.  Was the comment from Austrains?

No the "Comment" column is / was not written by Austrains.

As noted above the "Comment" column in the latest AMRM is directly opposite a full page "Austrains" advertisement announcing their 30 class model proclaiming "How a RTR steam loco should be made"....

While the "comment" column is a wafty piece about Dept of Fair trading etc. and how the consumer has rights, should be protected and how that all relates to the Australian Model Railway producers / importers etc. and with a warm iron and some lemon juice you "could" read between the lines about the Shrike 30T.

But so far nothing has really been done or said for that matter

Regards,

Catchpoint
catchpoint
Agree.

What JE is referring to with the a steam model should be make is pointing to the fact that they should have metal boilers, especially smaller engines.  But then there who they should really be made if they are made in metal.

The consumer laws in relation to this issue is interesting and how it could be tested if those wanting a refund and cannot get it.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
The consumer laws in relation to this issue is interesting and how it could be tested if those wanting a refund and cannot get it.
a6et
I think it could be tested by giving lawyers a lot of money, probably more than a Shrike 30T is worth...
  a6et Minister for Railways

The consumer laws in relation to this issue is interesting and how it could be tested if those wanting a refund and cannot get it.
I think it could be tested by giving lawyers a lot of money, probably more than a Shrike 30T is worth...
apw5910
No such thing as a Shrike 30T anymore, as close as one could get is that it was proposed before company folded.  Depending though on how the Ixion 30T is when it comes out will determine its worth.
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

Has anyone who payed for the RX managed to get a refund.
  Bob K Station Master

Location: East of Port Pirie
Yes, I have, back in April.
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
Yes, I have, back in April.
Bob K

From a "retailer" or from "Shrike"?

Regards,

Catchpoint
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Yes, I have, back in April.

From a "retailer" or from "Shrike"?

Regards,

Catchpoint
catchpoint
I happen to know, ithe answer is Strike.

As far as I know, and I know little, Bob might be the onlyperson who could validly go up to Austrains and get the deal.

Regards,
David Head

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