New intercity commuter trains

 
  moondust Beginner

Location: http://abcstarstuff.tumblr.com/
The New South Wales State Government will spend almost three billion dollars on a fleet of new intercity commuter trains.

Transport Minister Gladys Berejiklian announced the two point eight billion dollar deal to buy around 65 commuter trains.

The trains will service Newcastle, the Central Coast, Blue Mountains and the Illawarra.

The state government says it will consult with manufacturers in the coming weeks to identify the best trains to buy.

The new fleet is expected to be in service with in five years.

Sponsored advertisement

  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
This confirms a lot of rumours, one being that these trains will replace both the V and H Sets in intercity service, allowing the H Sets to do suburban running instead.

I wonder if you could cite your source please? Not as a matter of "disbelief", more as a formality so people can read the original press release if they're so inclined.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

More like the title should be "An attempt to get bad news about NSW Government & a number of their MPs & ICAC off the news, and an attempt to get more votes."

I heard earlier that the "transport minister" said that she was going to replace both V-sets & Oscars. Now why would you want to replace the Oscars that are only 2 to 8 years old in the first place

But then I heard on other news that "NSW is going to get all air conditioned trains by making the Oscars suburban trains.


The only non air conditioned trains are the S-Sets which are in the process of getting replaced in the first place.

And I go so far as say that air conditioned trains at times can be worse than non air-conditioned trains, especially with a lot of passengers who now cough without putting their hands over their mouth. There's nowhere for any germs to escape on air conditioned trains, due to windows & door windows that can't be opened.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Two posts in and the editorializing anti-Liberal crowd has already slammed their slant on things down. There goes any chance of having an unbiased discussion about the new trains!

If you actually knew as much as you think you know, you'd understand that with the opening of the S/W rail link, the direct like for like replacement of Waratah to S Set no longer works, due to increased services across the network. Thus, a select number of S Sets must be retained for peak hour services (not counting trains on the Cumberland/Carlingford Lines) to ensure that the network has enough trains.

Replacing the OSCars in Intercity traffic (a job for which they were never designed, nor are they suited for) would free them to operate like the G Sets did upon their introduction - peak hour runs from Central Coast/Lower Blue Mountains/Wollongong to city services, suburban services during the day, and then peak hour runs back again in the evening. This is what some of the OSCars do at the moment, however many more are used full time on Kiama/Newcastle runs, which isn't acceptable for passengers travelling long distances for reasons that are beyond the scope of this topic.

As for your opinion on a/c versus non a/c trains, most modern a/c trains have vent systems that continually cycle the air unless these are manually closed by train crew (OSCar/Waratah trains). Thus, just like your personal car, the train is bringing fresh air into the train through the a/c units, and venting old air at the same time. I would venture that the non a/c trains are worse in this regard as with the windows in the configuration they are, they do not provide adequate circulation, so the air lingers in the carriage and THEN you get the spread of germs.

Now, if you want to discuss the new trains, please do so without lacing your reply with obvious negative bias about the Transport Ministry. It just makes you look ignorant and encourages people to discount your opinion as mindless political rantings. Which nobody cares about.
  kg3000 Locomotive Driver

Two posts in and the editorializing anti-Liberal crowd has already slammed their slant on things down. There goes any chance of having an unbiased discussion about the new trains!

If you actually knew as much as you think you know, you'd understand that with the opening of the S/W rail link, the direct like for like replacement of Waratah to S Set no longer works, due to increased services across the network. Thus, a select number of S Sets must be retained for peak hour services (not counting trains on the Cumberland/Carlingford Lines) to ensure that the network has enough trains.

Replacing the OSCars in Intercity traffic (a job for which they were never designed, nor are they suited for) would free them to operate like the G Sets did upon their introduction - peak hour runs from Central Coast/Lower Blue Mountains/Wollongong to city services, suburban services during the day, and then peak hour runs back again in the evening. This is what some of the OSCars do at the moment, however many more are used full time on Kiama/Newcastle runs, which isn't acceptable for passengers travelling long distances for reasons that are beyond the scope of this topic.

As for your opinion on a/c versus non a/c trains, most modern a/c trains have vent systems that continually cycle the air unless these are manually closed by train crew (OSCar/Waratah trains). Thus, just like your personal car, the train is bringing fresh air into the train through the a/c units, and venting old air at the same time. I would venture that the non a/c trains are worse in this regard as with the windows in the configuration they are, they do not provide adequate circulation, so the air lingers in the carriage and THEN you get the spread of germs.

Now, if you want to discuss the new trains, please do so without lacing your reply with obvious negative bias about the Transport Ministry. It just makes you look ignorant and encourages people to discount your opinion as mindless political rantings. Which nobody cares about.
Raichase

Here is the article Trent - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-08/new-fleet-of-intercity-commuter-trains-announced/5438480
  kg3000 Locomotive Driver

It's funny as i have floated this idea for about two years... no one believed me that this would ever happen. Good to see that Gladys admits that oscars are not fit for intercity runs too. I eagerly await more news.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
It's funny as i have floated this idea for about two years... no one believed me that this would ever happen. Good to see that Gladys admits that oscars are not fit for intercity runs too. I eagerly await more news.
kg3000

Thanks for sharing the link. I couldn't agree with you more, the OSCars are not designed to operate Intercity services. The Transport Ministry has realised this and it's excellent news. They're a great train for what they're designed for, but no more than that!
  kg3000 Locomotive Driver

Thanks for sharing the link. I couldn't agree with you more, the OSCars are not designed to operate Intercity services. The Transport Ministry has realised this and it's excellent news. They're a great train for what they're designed for, but no more than that!
Raichase

Absolutely! When they do illawarra local runs i love them.. the seats are great for that.

It's just when you want to go 115+ for extended periods of time.... squeak squeak!

And as much as people hate gladys, i can not really fault her. She's realistic and honest, and has admitted the one thing we all knew... oscars are s#1t for intercity runs!

The real winners will be the South Coast, who have been treated like a suburban line for way too long.

Good Riddance.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Sounds like they will be single deckers. I am not aware off the shelf double deckers, not ones that meet our crash standards at least.

[EDIT]Posted Edited to remove personal references[/EDIT]
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Two posts in and the editorializing anti-Liberal crowd has already slammed their slant on things down. There goes any chance of having an unbiased discussion about the new trains!
Raichase

Just to make it clear, I do not support Labor (especially what they did when in power) or ANY other party. I can't stand either party.

Raichase, having an unbiased discussion about this or any subject, means from both sides whether a person supports that side or not, and also any pros or cons, nor will I change my post to suit others.

Nswtrain seems to be correct, they sound like single deck trains, and I still believe it is only to distract the voters from other news.


The real winners will be the South Coast
kg3000

"Interesting" that area.

Now if true it sounds similar to the Waratahs, that is a full 8 car train instead of the current 4 x 2 make up. That is a pro. A bad point is that naturally with the seats used these days, they are likely to be Oscar type seats. A pro is if they include smoke detectors. It states more room for luggage, and if that means luggage overhead in the middle (upper & lower) section, that may not leave much head room.

And if they are to be the 3 x 2 seating, that is not suitable for interurban travel, especially with the type of seats used these days. Use the seat types that are in the V-Sets.

The Oscars are still suitable for runs such as Central to Wyong, Springwood, Thirroul, for example.
But unlike the Oscars with one toilet per four car set, they need to have two (or three) toilets per four cars.

Now, if they want a true intercity, then have seats that recline a bit for the full Newcastle & Central Coast, Blue Mountains and South Coast line services.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
I'm not asking you to change you opinions, just to leave your obvious political slant out.

More like the title should be "An attempt to get bad news about NSW Government & a number of their MPs & ICAC off the news, and an attempt to get more votes."


That contributed nothing to the discussion and is simply a red herring to inflame political views. This is an enthusiast forum. If you want to dither about ICAC and corruption in politics, go to The Lounge. This thread is for the discussion of the new trains being tendered for. If you want to discuss those trains, then please, contribute to this thread. If you want to dribble and spit about politicians, then kindly rack off. I don't want to read your ill informed views, and I'm sure many other people don't either.

The second part of your post, for example, is what I'm referring to. You deduce design aspects of the train from the article, and lead into a discussion about them. If you could leave your political slagging at the door, then I welcome your input. For the record, I completely agree with most of your points - more toilets, more luggage space and comfier seating.

I disagree about recliner seating - the V/Line fleet is fit for purpose, and none of their seats recline. It's just an example of something that can be broken (by the human element) and/or fail in service, taking seats out of service. I've seen the way people throw the seats around on all trains from V Sets to Waratahs, and most of the time it is with undue force and seeming contempt.

Looking at the numbers of the S Set cars to be retained versus the number of OSCar cars in service, it seems all of them will cascade to suburban service, although hopefully some (or all) of them retain their toilets and high back seating. There's no reason why half the fleet can't continue to operate in the manner for which they were designed, whilst the other half become dedicated suburban stock.
  kg3000 Locomotive Driver

Just to make it clear, I do not support Labor (especially what they did when in power) or ANY other party. I can't stand either party.

Raichase, having an unbiased discussion about this or any subject, means from both sides whether a person supports that side or not, and also any pros or cons, nor will I change my post to suit others.

Nswtrain seems to be correct, they sound like single deck trains, and I still believe it is only to distract the voters from other news.



"Interesting" that area.

Now if true it sounds similar to the Waratahs, that is a full 8 car train instead of the current 4 x 2 make up. That is a pro. A bad point is that naturally with the seats used these days, they are likely to be Oscar type seats. A pro is if they include smoke detectors. It states more room for luggage, and if that means luggage overhead in the middle (upper & lower) section, that may not leave much head room.

And if they are to be the 3 x 2 seating, that is not suitable for interurban travel, especially with the type of seats used these days. Use the seat types that are in the V-Sets.

The Oscars are still suitable for runs such as Central to Wyong, Springwood, Thirroul, for example.
But unlike the Oscars with one toilet per four car set, they need to have two (or three) toilets per four cars.

Now, if they want a true intercity, then have seats that recline a bit for the full Newcastle & Central Coast, Blue Mountains and South Coast line services.
Newcastle Express

Did you not read the part about Gladys admitting that the oscars do not offer a good enough level of comfort for intercity?
I doubt they'd be 8 car fixed... 4 car intercity runs are justified in off peak and most weekend runs.
  kg3000 Locomotive Driver

There's no reason why half the fleet can't continue to operate in the manner for which they were designed, whilst the other half become dedicated suburban stock.
Raichase

Totally agree, target the loo-removed ones and give them an M set style paint job and just target them M sets? keep the OS ones H.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Totally agree, target the loo-removed ones and give them an M set style paint job and just target them M sets? keep the OS ones H.
kg3000

They're far too different to be re-targeted as M Sets. Aside from the very different layout of equipment, there's also the issue of crew training.
  donttellmywife Chief Commissioner

Location: Antofagasta
Here's the full press release... http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/nsw-government-invest-28-billion-new-intercity-trains-making-all-trains-air

Double deck "off the shelf" designs (typically an existing design gets configured to suit local requirements) are certainly available.  Given there's been a lot of work by the major manufacturers over the last decade or two about crash worthiness of their passenger rail vehicle designs I don't think there would be any intractable issues.

I find this sentence in the release interesting... “This engagement will be carried out to get feedback on more specific on-board features such as seat configuration, luggage compartments and premium carriages.”  

I whole-heartedly agree with Raichase with respect to the conspiracy theories and party-political drivel.
  donttellmywife Chief Commissioner

Location: Antofagasta
Not that I think it particularly meaningful, but all of the "supplied" images in that Canberra Times article are double deck designs.
  steam3801 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Newcastle
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/nsw/28-billion-to-be-spent-on-airconditioned-trains-for-nsw-20140508-zr6q0.html
kg3000

Newcastle Morning Herlad (same stable as CT?) seems to have got hold of the same set of photos ....

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2268427/28-billion-to-be-spent-on-airconditioned-trains/?cs=305

How accurate is this depiction, or did the tabloid media just grab hold of a few photos of any "modern looking" trains??

Anyway, just in case the depictions are accurate, here's a real-life couple of the subject trains at Avignon Centre last year


Although I find all the hype and spin a little amusing ... "InterCity"? ... the one on the left was just a local all-stations provincial suburban train we caught.
  Minardiau Train Controller

Please allow it to be these

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_TD

or even these which are common in Eastern Germany where I lived

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBAG_Class_612
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Steam3801, most of the Fairfax journalists are on strike, due to more cuts in Fairfax. You will notice that their are no author(s) names put on a number of articles today. And yes the Herald has used the same pictures from the Canberra Times. But the Canberra does say that they are some of possible designs.

Maitland Mercury: http://www.maitlandmercury.com.au/story/2268418/new-intercity-train-fleet-for-nsw/?cs=171
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
I was under the impression the ICE-TD was a failure? I mean, if we were going to replace the XPT with another train, the ICE-TD is a handsome contender, but perhaps a very old design now...

The Canberra Times link provided has in the caption that the images were provided by the government, rather than just being general pictures Googled by a work experience kid. That being said, it might have been a government intern who Googled them rather than the media...
  Airvan99 Junior Train Controller

At a guess, the new trains will be more like the RER trains. Unlikely to be TGV type trains as there is no track in NSW where their capability (speed) could be used. So the expense would be wasted.
  Minardiau Train Controller

I was under the impression the ICE-TD was a failure? I mean, if we were going to replace the XPT with another train, the ICE-TD is a handsome contender, but perhaps a very old design now...

The Canberra Times link provided has in the caption that the images were provided by the government, rather than just being general pictures Googled by a work experience kid. That being said, it might have been a government intern who Googled them rather than the media...
Raichase

They were when they were first introduced. Faulty wheels preventing the tilting mechanism from working properly and they way fuel costs are paid in Germany.

The other example I mentioned are basically ICE-TD's but commuter orientated. They had the same problems as well. They are an awesome train though and used extensivly by DB in Thuringia where there is a lot of winding track not too dissimilar to what we have here. The journey from Weimar to Jena 24klm only takes about 10 or minutes.

I'm sure with everything the German's know about these trains now, new designs based on these could be every useful here in Australia.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

The press release: http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/nsw-government-invest-28-billion-new-intercity-trains-making-all-trains-air

NSW Premier Mike Baird and Minister for Transport Gladys Berejiklian today announced the NSW Government will order a brand new $2.8 billion next-generation fleet of intercity trains, giving long-distance customers a more comfortable ride and for the first time making all state trains air-conditioned.
Around 65 new state-of-the-art intercity trains, including about 520 brand new carriages, will carry passengers to the Central Coast, Newcastle, the Blue Mountains, and the Illawarra.
“This is a major investment in a brand new train fleet for NSW and shows how hard we are working to improve services for the tens of thousands of customers commuting daily between Sydney and the South Coast, Blue Mountains, Central Coast and Hunter,” Mr Baird said.
Mr Baird said Sydney customers will also benefit from this significant investment, as the new trains will stop at many busy Sydney interchanges such as Central and Strathfield.
In addition, the Oscar intercity fleet - currently operating to outer metropolitan areas – will be reallocated to Sydney suburban services, meaning every train across the state will be air-conditioned.
“The NSW Liberals and Nationals Government rescued Labor’s botched Waratah project from the brink of collapse, and more than 70 Waratah trains are now in service,” said Mr Baird.
“We are also delivering major transport infrastructure projects like the North West Rail Link, South West Rail link, and the CBD and South East Light Rail – which will make a huge difference to the lives of thousands of commuters every day.”
The NSW Government will now work with the world’s leading train manufacturers to identify the best train for the long journeys taken by intercity customers, selecting a train already available to the market, to ensure the fleet is in service within four to five years.
Ms Berejiklian said the NSW Government will begin the process of procuring the new intercity trains this month, with industry briefings to take place in coming weeks.
“These new trains will provide unprecedented levels of comfort and convenience for customers, and we will now begin industry briefings and community engagement to achieve the best outcome from the new fleet,” she said.
“This engagement will be carried out to get feedback on more specific on-board features such as seat configuration, luggage compartments and premium carriages.”
Ms Berejiklian said the trains will be funded by the NSW Government, now that the Waratah fleet is close to completion.
“Previously, NSW has developed unique and often costly train fleets from scratch, which has taken as long as seven years from start to delivery,” Ms Berejiklian said.
“We are looking at buying off-the-shelf trains with proven technology and then configuring them to meet our customers’ needs, meaning we can ensure the best value, best possible service and also have these new trains on the tracks faster.
“We expect the first train will be in passenger service by 2019 and the new fleet will be progressively rolled out through to 2024.”
Ms Berejiklian said NSW TrainLink was formed last July to provide a tailored service to regional and intercity train customers, and the new trains are an example of this new focus.
“Our customers deserve a world-class service every day. There’s still a way to go, but tremendous improvements have been made,” she said.
“We are working hard every day to provide our customers with more commuter car parking, Opal electronic ticketing, easier access to stations, cleaner and more reliable services and a high standard of customer service.”
NSW Government to invest $2.8 billion in new intercity trains, making all trains air-conditioned (pdf 98KB)
  kg3000 Locomotive Driver

For the record its an smh article. I shared it as Canberra times (by changing the domain name in the url) simply to circumvent the paywall as CT doesn't have one. Smile

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.