Southern Rail Models L Class

 
  wagrttn Locomotive Driver

Firstly, I wish to state that I really appreciate Southern Rail doing what no other company has done - producing the L  class. I must agree with M636C,  however, that they have done themselves a disservice in releasing the advertising in its current form. If I am to entrust a company with $300 pre-payment per item then I would feel much more comfortable with promotional material that demonstrated a little more care and inspired a greater degree of confidence.

The notion of supporting an initial release in order to improve the chances of a second run that may feature more personally desirable liveries is a tricky one. If I buy the closest available to what I want now and then modify/repaint to suit then I improve the  chances of a second run but I will already have what I need and therefore a second run with a more desirable scheme will be of no use to me. Alternatively, if I don't buy now in the hope that a second run will feature liveries that I want then I run a real risk of ending up with nothing.

For what it's worth (not much) I model modern standard gauge in WA and therefore the L11 option of LZ3104 seems to be the only one suitable 'out of the box'. I also think that the L3 scheme should be dropped in favour of either a Westrail orange (large titles) or preferably a pineapple QRN scheme.

I'll conclude be restating my gratitude to Southern Rail because I'm an awfully lot closer to having what I want than I was at this time last week.

Sponsored advertisement

  Bahnfrend Station Master

Location: Perth, WA
M636C

I stand corrected about the dual gauge and the NAs/NBs.

According to Rod Milne's book on WAGR EE locos, the three KAs served for their first 10 years or so pretty much exclusively on the Esperance and Leonora lines. One was then withdrawn from service, a second was converted back to NG (and is now preserved), and the third was transferred to Forrestfield, from where it occasionally operated stone trains to the Avon Valley until it was withdrawn. So it seems that there was really only one KA that saw much service at the western end of the SG network.

The DFZs you saw at Forrestfield may well have been in transit between Albany and Geraldton.

As far as I know, the only narrow gauge trains that operate regularly through the Avon Valley nowadays are the CBH grain trains, which, when operated by CBH class motive power and CBH wagons (as they usually are) look identical to their SG equivalents.

Toby

I don't agree with your comments about everyone having to buy seven models each.

Let's look at a hypothetical ADK/ADB in Sn31/2. These trains operated in Perth for more than 20 years on all suburban lines, and have since operated in Auckland for more than 20 years on all suburban lines. The most popular scale/gauge combination in both WA and NZ, by far, is Sn31/2. Perth has a population of nearly two million, and Auckland about 1.5 million. There's never been any eastern states H0 scale-style r-t-r narrow gauge available for either WA or NZ, in any scale. So the problem is lack of supply, not lack of demand. If someone were to produce a model of this train in Sn31/2, it would sell, probably equally as well as the eastern states outline emus and dmus that Southern Rail is already making. The potential customers for the model wouldn't be restricted to existing Sn31/2 modellers or magazine readers. Just about anyone interested in modelling WA or NZ, including those who don't already have any such models, would be a potential customer. Of course they wouldn't sell their TGVs and Mallards to model WAGR or NZR instead. They'd just run the ADKs/ADBs on the same layout alongside them. The models would also be of interest to people who otherwise wouldn't even consider buying a model train, eg the many people here in Perth who follow the highly publicised "Lost Perth" website.

You could make similar comments about the W class locomotive, which would be the logical first WAGR steam loco to produce in r-t-r Sn31/2. A total of 64 of them were built (WAGR 60, Silverton Tramway 4). The W class is one of the most preserved classes of locomotive anywhere in the world. For a start, there are preserved examples in the big railway museums in both Perth and Adelaide. Other examples are preserved in Alice Springs, Broken Hill, Collie, Hotham Valley, Peterborough and Pichi Richi. For the whole of their working lives, the W class locos were the backbone of the WAGR/Silverton fleets, respectively, and they are also the backbone of the HVR and Pichi Richi fleets. They were built in the UK by Beyer-Peacock, the records of which are preserved in a big technology museum in Manchester. A model of the W class in Sn31/2 would be of interest to people wanting to buy memorabilia or souvenirs from any of the places I have mentioned, not least because it could run on normal H0/00 track (but it wouldn't look right if you were to model it in H0 standard gauge, because the prototype is very obviously a narrow gauge loco). They would be of (possibly even greater) interest to the potential Australian customers for an ADK/ADB model. So if someone were to produce a model of the W class, it would sell, and the only technical issue would be that you'd have to make a choice as to which type of tender to model, because more than one tender type was used (plus you'd need a full length boiler top cowling if you were to produce a Silverton version).

ALCO4401

I agree with pretty much all of your comments, and especially with your observations about the lack of supply. The people who make kits in WA are hobbyists who make their kits in small batches; there are no eastern states style operators amongst them.

wagrttn

I too really appreciate Southern Rail for producing a model of the L class. The deposit per loco is actually only $100, so you could pay a deposit for three of them with $300. I also think the initial run of the L class includes at least one version to appeal to pretty much everyone who wants an L class model. I've already put in my order.
  GT46C-ACe Deputy Commissioner

Location: Gold Coast QLD
Perth has a population of nearly two million, and Auckland about 1.5 million.

Doesn't mean there's 3.5million modellers waiting for them.
  Bahnfrend Station Master

Location: Perth, WA
No, it doesn't.  But if you if need to sell, say, 1,000 models of a type of train that has run on the suburban lines of both cities, you only need a tiny fraction of those people to buy them to sell them out.
  GT46C-ACe Deputy Commissioner

Location: Gold Coast QLD
How many of that tiny fraction are modellers? How many of that fraction model Sn3.5? How many of that fraction would actually buy one? Probably not enough.
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller


wagrttn

I too really appreciate Southern Rail for producing a model of the L class. The deposit per loco is actually only $100, so you could pay a deposit for three of them with $300. I also think the initial run of the L class includes at least one version to appeal to pretty much everyone who wants an L class model. I've already put in my order.
Bahnfrend

The reason why he is paying $300 (actually $295) is to get the pre delivery price.
  wagrttn Locomotive Driver

Hello Again

This thread is in danger of derailing. Yes, I was just making the point that I would like the promotional material to be less ambiguous regarding exactly what is on offer if I am to commit to paying in full for a pre-order sight unseen  (which I don't mind doing for selected manufacturers - it helps them and saves me $).

There's not a lot on offer to suit me out of the box but if biasing the offered liveries towards eastern states modellers is what is required to make this project viable then such is life. It seems as if most of the body and detail variations will be catered for so the remainder is just a repaint and decal as desired.

Happy days.
  M636C Minister for Railways

I think Bahnfrend has missed my point about KAs and DFZs:

If I have seen them fairly often in Perth, surely everyone else has, regardless of where they were theoretically allocated.

While Rod Milne has done a good job of recording branch lines in WA, his knowledge of locomotives sometimes needs assistance. I had to add a lot of information to an article of his in "Australian Railway History" on the QR 1400.

In NZ, the Brazilian "Frateschi" models are widely available as ready to run. These appear to be about 1:76 scale on HO gauge, so the gauge is too big for metre gauge (or 1067mm) but the models aren't too bad. I've bought a G12 in NZR red and silver and a U22C in Tranzrail yellow and black. These are suitable to run with BR prototype Mk II cars in OO and freight vehicles in OO and from Frateschi.

I've never seen any Sn3-1/2 models on sale in either island of NZ.

But to return to the topic.

The DFZ might just start modellers in HO modelling WA prototype on either gauge, 16.5 or 12 mm.

Australian HO started from the single Model Dockyard brass 38 class which cost four times the price of a Hornby Dublo steam loco at the time.
The fact that AMRM started at the same time helped...

The L will sell well in the Eastern States anyway, they are an accepted part of the scene in NSW (and Victoria, to a lesser extent) since 2000.

As others have said, the L and the DFZ will encourage people to model the local scene.
That can't be bad in any scale.

And I have my photos of DFZs even if I didn't know they shouldn't be there...
I have good photos of 2300s and nobody's mentioned 2250s yet that look almost the same....

M636C
  wagrttn Locomotive Driver

Yes, the L and DFZ, the AC, ACB and (near enough) ACA, WBAX and whatever else are a fantastic start (well, we have very quickly progressed beyond just a start, I would suggest). However, both manufacturers and hobby shops are seemingly (and understandably) reluctant to invest in high stock levels of anything. If someone were to walk into a Perth hobby shop in a few months time and ask if there was anything Western Australian available he would be well pleased. If someone else were to do the same in 18 months time or beyond there may very well be nothing left. My point is, I suppose, that this may be a very small window of opportunity that is about to open for WA modellers which will only benefit those currently in a position to 'seize the moment'. To truly grow a WA-themed railway modelling following there will, I believe, need to be a sustained availability of suitable product.
  DQ2004 Chief Commissioner

Location: Hobart -where the rain has lumps in it
Toby

I don't agree with your comments about everyone having to buy seven models each.
Bahnfrend

You're quite welcome to disagree but merely saying 'they will sell' is simply an opinion. You can't back it up with any numbers of people who will buy. That's the problem. And believe me I wish that wasn't true (I'd definitely buy a W class steam loco or two).
But producers need numbers to base an investment on. The numbers aren't there. No one will build a model based on 'I'm sure people who've never bought a model will buy one'. If I was wrong then someone would be doing them - these guys do their research.
I'll leave it at that. We're both happy about the L class and I hope it brings a renewed interest in WA model railways.

Firstly, I wish to state that I really appreciate Southern Rail doing what no other company has done - producing the L class. I must agree with M636C, however, that they have done themselves a disservice in releasing the advertising in its current form. If I am to entrust a company with $300 pre-payment per item then I would feel much more comfortable with promotional material that demonstrated a little more care and inspired a greater degree of confidence.

The notion of supporting an initial release in order to improve the chances of a second run that may feature more personally desirable liveries is a tricky one. If I buy the closest available to what I want now and then modify/repaint to suit then I improve the chances of a second run but I will already have what I need and therefore a second run with a more desirable scheme will be of no use to me. Alternatively, if I don't buy now in the hope that a second run will feature liveries that I want then I run a real risk of ending up with nothing.

For what it's worth (not much) I model modern standard gauge in WA and therefore the L11 option of LZ3104 seems to be the only one suitable 'out of the box'. I also think that the L3 scheme should be dropped in favour of either a Westrail orange (large titles) or preferably a pineapple QRN scheme.

I'll conclude be restating my gratitude to Southern Rail because I'm an awfully lot closer to having what I want than I was at this time last week.
wagrttn

Its hard to know what exactly is planned with this. It doesn't necessarily mean that missing liveries are dependent on the success of the first run. The amount of interest shown already suggests to me that the first run will be very successful, and possibly they're already planning on what will be done in a second run. So it may be worth an inquiry to find out the chances are to have certain liveries included in a second run.
I have no doubt that they were limited by the factory in terms of what they could do. I've been trying to count the different livieres (and livery variations) carried by the L's, and I'm currently at 38 (I think)! So its certainly a tough battle to please everyone.
I also agree that L3 the original orange and blue with no pin stripes is an odd choice but then again maybe there'll be someone who wants that one? I dunno.

I'm lucky in that I want the original blue & light grey, I also want the ATN maroon ones and I'll get a single orange & blue one. So six for me (eek).

My wishlist for a second run is:
L268 in the one-off blue, white & orange stripes
L260 in the last Westrail yellow with black chevrons
L3121 or 3112 in ARG QR yellow with maroon band.
L255 in the experimental (nearly permanent) dark orange with twin yellow stripes
And perhaps one or two in the darker two-tone blue.

...I never realised how many L class I want!

Kind regards,

Toby
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Weird scales and gauges do not go over too well with Joe Averages here anyway. Have you ever tried to tell someone the difference between HO and OO at an exhibition or something. They still really do not grasp the principle since both run on the same trackage. So having said that I doubt that you would sell many models of a WAGR W class here in some would call a weird scale as it is not used here much at all, not even in the eastern states.

So really you only have WAGR modellers in WA to buy things and going by the fact that very few WA hobby shops carry HO Australian models tells any manufacturer that they are not interested in this scale. They cannot tool up for every pet scale in each state in Australia though! So how many HO modellers of WA are there actually, you might get a shock at the actual amount. A mere drop in the ocean type really.

I too would like to get some early L class WAGR models but I am thankful that someone is actually doing them to start with, if the first run sells out well and good they can then proceed with a second run of them, the Austrains NR's have had how many runs now and one more is promised as well. Not bad for a model that the manufacture was going to discontinue at one stage!
  tabmow68 Station Master

Location: Brisbane
I'm sure that if all of the modellers that want one of the L class in WA livery all pre-paid for their loco(s) and the number was oversubscribed to what was originally planned prior to the run going through the factory, then the manufacturer would highly likely re-assess the number there were going to get produced or at the very least, reorganise the numbers of each livery.  So if you want to ensure you get one, order them sooner rather than wait for the delivery and possibly miss out.

As for a lot of the other gumf being written here, I just go back to Disney Pixar's Robots movie with the quote "See a need, fill a need!"  If anyone thinks there is a suitable market for anything that isn't currently being filled, then do what all of these manufacturers have done, go out and find a means of financing the project, design it, find a factory to build it and get it onto the market.  To the best of my knowledge, none of the "big" boys like Hornby, Athearn, etc, etc are behind any of the current Australian manufacturers so you can't say "I can't afford that", as I'm sure the majority of manufacturers out there now couldn't when they first started with the idea but they went out and found the financial backing to get the job done.  The same opportunity still exists for everyone else to follow, it just depends on how much you actually want to have the model(s).

At the very least, design a kit of what you want for every one else to buy off of you.  That technology isn't expensive.

Bazza
  Harley Junior Train Controller

Location: Clergate, NSW
Has anyone had a chance to view the special offer that is reportedly in the new issue of Motive Power? I don't subscribe and I havn't been able to locate a copy in Orange yet.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Has anyone had a chance to view the special offer that is reportedly in the new issue of Motive Power? I don't subscribe and I havn't been able to locate a copy in Orange yet.
Harley

further savings possible for certain fully paid early bird pre-orders. You need a copy of the ad to get the discount and see the terms/conditions that apply so there's your incentive to track down a supplier of the magazine Smile
  DQ2004 Chief Commissioner

Location: Hobart -where the rain has lumps in it
Well this answers a few questions that have been posted here earlier, in particular re second runs and other colour schemes.
http://www.southernrailmodels.com.au/article/29th-may-2014-l-class--exhibitions--etc

I rather like that competition too, although you've got to get in quick!

Kind regards,

Toby
  Bahnfrend Station Master

Location: Perth, WA
DQ2004

Some aspects of that Southern Rail post you've linked to seem a bit strange to me.

For example, SR's owner says that WA represents just 5% of the market (and I'm presuming he means for Australian outline plastic r-t-r).

As there are, at present, no plastic r-t-r models of any WA locos available for immediate delivery in any scale apart from iron ore line locos and his DFZ (which is really just a Qld loco in drag), plus no models of any WA coaches (apart from the Lima IP cars and the BHP Silver Star coach) and only two types of wagons (one of them a BHPBIO iron ore wagon), that could only be described as a spectacular result for WA.

Yes, that's right: although there's almost nothing WA outline for us to buy (except models of iron ore trains, which hardly anyone sees in real life, because they're up in the Pilbara), we still buy 5% of the total sold nationwide.

And if he's right about the "spectacular" response to the forthcoming L class, then presumably once you add the L class models to the mix that would increase the WA market share to, say, 10%, with just one real WA non iron ore loco available for sale.

So there must be some untapped demand for WA r-t-r somewhere.  Unfortunately the r-t-r makers just can't see it at the moment.

Secondly, he says that "it is out of the question to produce a plastic RTR WA loco in Sn3½. There just isn’t the volume to support the cost."  So, folks, what he's also saying is that you're wasting your time buying any of his DFZ locos, because that's all you're ever going to get in WA narrow gauge plastic rtr.

Why is that?  Well, anyone who's familiar with the WA market will know that the market here for anything narrow gauge unique to WA in HO or HOn31/2 (as opposed to a Qld model in drag) would be a great deal smaller than the market for the same product in Sn31/2 that he says is unviable for plastic RTR.  After all, there are lots of Sn31/2 modellers and layouts over here, but no HOn31/2 or HO "narrow gauge outline on standard gauge track" modellers or layouts.

I simply can't agree that "a plastic RTR WA loco in Sn3½" is not a viable proposition.  If Ixion can make a plastic RTR model of the unique Pichi Richi "coffee pot" railcar in an even less mainstream scale and sell it out, then, at least, a WAGR W class in Sn31/2 would seem to be a no brainer (and yes, Pichi Richi runs several W class locos, too).

On the other hand, I'm pleased at the "spectacular" response to the L class model.  I'm already looking forward to buying some of the additional liveries in the second run.  And I'm also hoping there's a K class in the pipeline.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Those Coffee Pots though were sold world wide and sold pretty well because overseas modellers and here too liked odd ball things like this. Now if you take a almost standard WAGR steam locomotive and do the same thing you will not sell many simply because it does not have that oddball attraction to it. It is just another steam locomotive that is not that well known outside of Australia!
  M636C Minister for Railways

DQ2004

Some aspects of that Southern Rail post you've linked to seem a bit strange to me.....

As there are, at present, no plastic r-t-r models of any WA locos available for immediate delivery in any scale apart from (apart from ... the BHP Silver Star coach) and only two types of wagons (one of them a BHPBIO iron ore wagon)....

.....On the other hand, I'm pleased at the "spectacular" response to the L class model. I'm already looking forward to buying some of the additional liveries in the second run. And I'm also hoping there's a K class in the pipeline.
Bahnfrend


Again, the selection of photos on the new Southern Rail Models page suggests that they are being relatively poorly advised.

No less than four of the liveries shown were one-off liveries on one unit.

Two of them were on two units only.

And there appears to be no commitment to produce any of them, just suggesting they are possible options.

The illustrated version of the Comalco 1.001 and Australian LocoLease L277 (same loco) livery shows it without the lettering carried in use by either owner. There is no comment on the fact that this locomotive has substantial technical differences, different air intakes (in a different place), no dynamic brakes and a modified nose with a recess to accomodate the horns.

The Orange scheme with Westrail lettering shows a smaller size of lettering than was applied on most units so painted and may thus be a fifth one off livery.

But to get back to the quote above:

There's a model of the "Silver Star"? Where do I get one? It was called "Sundowner" when in service in Australia, by the way.

Sadly there are no models of BHPB iron ore wagons. The Bachmann model in their Pilbara sets is a good model of the earliest Hamersley Iron wagons, even to the paintwork, but nothing for Mt Newman, as those of us who worked there called it.

M636C
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
Which L class did the VR hire for a while?  That loco in that scheme would sell reasonably in Victoria.

Mark
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
If you head to the website you will find this photo:








Here's one at the Bundbury Bridge site, so  it is definately  in use in
Victorias. I have this photo inn a calander and looked at it for years so it  is quite satisfying to see it again. It is one of the "L" class I'd buy.

Others may point out other colours if any used in Victoria.

Regards,
David Head
  Bahnfrend Station Master

Location: Perth, WA
David

The W class locomotives were all made in Manchester, UK, by Beyer-Peacock, and models of them would be likely to be of interest to railway enthusiasts in the UK, not just for that reason, but also because many UK enthusiasts would have seen preserved examples running on various preserved railways here in Australia.  As anyone familiar with UK rail enthusiasts will know, they're just mad about steam engines, especially those made in the UK.  There's even a substantial British based society dedicated to the preservation of an Indian government owned railway in the Himalayas that still runs its UK made steam locomotives.

There would be even more interest in a model of the W class in the UK if the model were favourably reviewed in the Continental Modeller.  The W class is also an attractive class with a distinctive appearance, due, amongst other things, to its sloped cab front, which was intended to make the cab cooler - not a major design issue in the UK.

M636C

The Silver Star / Sundowner (which is now a cafe in Port Hedland) has been modelled in HO brass by at least one manufacturer, and also in N scale plastic by Kato.  In each case, the model formed part of a Burlington General Pershing set (the Kato version of which I have in my collection).

I wasn't aware of the issue with the ore wagons, but what you say is yet another illustration of the problem we WA modellers have.  You can buy an r-t-r Hamersley Iron loco in n scale, but no HI wagons in that scale, and you can buy several BHPBIO locomotives in HO scale, but no (genuine) BHPBIO wagons in HO scale.  Also, the most numerous BHPBIO locomotive type (the SD-70ACe) is not available in plastic r-t-r in either scale, even though some of them are more or less identical to their BNSF counterparts, with only different lettering and some minor additional modifications.  Go figure.

My comments on the latest photos are as follows.

I don't think the one (or two) off liveries are necessarily a problem.  European manufacturers produce a lot of models in one off wrap advertising liveries, and American manufacturers make a lot of models in one off heritage liveries.  You also need to remember that the L class is a relatively small class (27 in total) that has been painted in many different liveries.  If you were a manufacturer wanting to maximise the value of your investment, you'd be looking to produce as many liveries as you could, in the expectation that some buyers will want to buy at least one example of many, if not all of them.

The picture of the two tone blue version is encouraging, because it suggests that Southern Rail is aware that the standard livery of the time was blue/grey, not blue/blue.

Finally, the white liveried locomotive, L268, never entered service in that livery, because it was declared "black" by the loco drivers. Apparently the problem was that reflections off the white paint in bright sunshine would have made it difficult for them to see (another issue not likely to arise in the UK). The solution was a partial repaint into the predominantly blue livery depicted in one of the other photos. I distinctly remember that latter livery (also a one off), because it was much more attractive than the standard Westrail orange with blue stripes, which I never liked.

Mark/David

VR hired some orange/blue locos in the 1980s.  They were in the pinstripe version of that livery.
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
David

The W class locomotives were all made in Manchester, UK, by Beyer-Peacock, and models of them would be likely to be of interest to railway enthusiasts in the UK, not just for that reason, but also because many UK enthusiasts would have seen preserved examples running on various preserved railways here in Australia. As anyone familiar with UK rail enthusiasts will know, they're just mad about steam engines, especially those made in the UK. There's even a substantial British based society dedicated to the preservation of an Indian government owned railway in the Himalayas that still runs its UK made steam locomotives.
Bahnfrend

I wonder how many VR R class locos Eureka sold to the UK for the same reason.  SFA I suspect.

Mark
  Bahnfrend Station Master

Location: Perth, WA
I wonder how many VR R class locos Eureka sold to the UK for the same reason. SFA I suspect.

Mark
LaidlayM

Maybe.  But the latest Eureka Times says that the R class has almost sold out 18 months ahead of schedule, so Eureka is unlikely to have needed to market them anywhere other than Victoria.
  M636C Minister for Railways

If you head to the website you will find this photo:








Here's one at the Bundbury Bridge site, so it is definately in use in
Victorias. I have this photo inn a calander and looked at it for years so it is quite satisfying to see it again. It is one of the "L" class I'd buy.

Others may point out other colours if any used in Victoria.

Regards,
David Head
dthead

This locomotive is almost certainly being used by VR during its delivery. Leon Oberg suggests that L251 was used for a number of trips to Albury. Others suggest that L253 was also used this way. Sadly, this loco doesn't have the numbers painted on the headstock so it could be any of the early units being so used. These locos were built before the WAGR standard gauge was completed, and since the H and K class were already in service, there was no great demand for them when completed. VR didn't buy any (C class) for another ten years, so Clyde didn't get much from the loan.

The standard blue and orange (with white stripes) scheme was on locos used by VR in the 1980s. These units got white oval "radio equipped" stickers not used in WA while in Victoria. These would be best supplied as decals so that the model could represent both WA and Victorian versions.

M636C
  M636C Minister for Railways

The W class is also an attractive class with a distinctive appearance, due, amongst other things, to its sloped cab front, which was intended to make the cab cooler - not a major design issue in the UK.

The Silver Star / Sundowner (which is now a cafe in Port Hedland) has been modelled in HO brass by at least one manufacturer, and also in N scale plastic by Kato. In each case, the model formed part of a Burlington General Pershing set (the Kato version of which I have in my collection).
Bahnfrend

The sloping cab front meant that the firebox stays could be inspected without removing the cab from the boiler and this design was introduced in the USA in the late 1920s. It could have made the cab cooler as well.

There were four cars like Silver Star (no 300), the others being 301 to 303. I don't know their names. These were diner observation cars, so provided food and first class seating on trains that otherwise had only (second class) coaches. 300 and 301 were 4 inches longer, having a more pointed observation end.

I'm not holding my breath until a brass HO General Pershing Zephyr becomes available.

I have a Rivarossi observation lettered for the NYC Empire State Express. The Empire State had a similar observation to the Pershing Zephyr but the Rivarossi model isn't much like either...

Still, with the right lettering...

M636C

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