The Vinelander

 
  NAB123456789 Beginner

I have wanted to know where does the Vinelander go to? I saw carriages of the Vinelander at Steamrail's  Newport workshops on the open days.

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  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
No public timetabled service these days, but when it ran, it ran to Mildura as an overnight train.
Google is your friend, have a look here for futher information.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
I have wanted to know where does the Vinelander go to? I saw carriages of the Vinelander at Steamrail's Newport workshops on the open days.
NAB123456789

Hi and welcome to the Forum NAB...

Here is a link to an image of the Vinelander train taken in the early 1970's. It was originally painted in the Victorian Railways blue.

The Vinelander had 3 classes of accommodation, Economy seats, First Class seats and Roomette (single cabin) and Twinette (twin cabin) accommodation.

It also carried passengers cars by the attached MotoRail carrier.

Link...

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.milduraweekly.com.au%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F01%2Frain-vinelander.gif&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.milduraweekly.com.au%2F2014%2F01%2F10%2Ffull-steam-ahead-for-train-campaign%2F&h=592&w=1024&tbnid=_NSBagHZ34ei4M%3A&zoom=1&docid=wq8ERaNbKXtNyM&hl=en&ei=m5-BU-PKJ87OkwXd5oCwAQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CFcQMygEMAQ&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=1238&page=1&start=0&ndsp=15

And below, a link from Mark Bau's Victorian Railways website showing a typical timetable from the 1970's.

http://www.victorianrailways.net/timetables/tt1967/tt1975/pubtt1975.pdf

Mike.

PS, my nick is The Vinelander as I've travelled many times on that train as has my family who still live in Mildura.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Mike. What was the usual consist in terms of rolling stock please?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Mike. What was the usual consist in terms of rolling stock please?
bevans

The era of that photo, the basic consist was invariably a 'B' class loco, MotoRail, CE van for luggage, parcels and mail, BZ (Economy class sitter), AZ (First Class sitter) Twinette sleeping car, Roomette sleeping car.

Holiday times though saw the train built up significantly with more sleepers etc and on occasion three divisions of the Vinelander would leave Melbourne on Black Thursday night, the day before Easter.

Mike.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

In its last incarnation as an overnight  service  4 nights a week each way .   N class, D Van, BZ.BRS.ACZ.Roomette.Twinette,Motorail .  patronage mid week as low as  60 beyond Maryborough . Highest passenger subsidy of any VLP long distance Inter City passenger service.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
The Vinelander (Melbourne - Mildura) ceased running in 1993 and was a part of mass cuts to long distance passenger rail in Victoria. Services cut included Ballarat - Dimboola (including Ararat), Shepparton - Cobram, Dandenong - Leongatha, Sale - Bairnsdale and The Vinelander Melbourne - Mildura. Since then Sale - Bairnsdale, Ballarat - Ararat and Ballarat - Maryborough have all been reinstated.

While there have been many pre-election promises by previous state governments to reintroduce services to some of these places, namely Leongatha and Mildura, successive feasability studies have shown there is nowhere near enough potential patronage to support the cost of reintroducing passenger trains.

The Vinelander carriages you have seen are former Vinelander carriages (pre 1993) and have been restored for use by 707operations for use on heritage trains.

I hope this tells you all you need to know.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Black Thursday night, the day before Easter.
The Vinelander

Is there still such thing these days for V/Line trains ?
Or Is It just that there are x amount of seats (no different to normal) and you miss out on a seat If you don't book early enough ?

A charter bus (or more) running along side trains for people despite for a public transport journey.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Usually Christmas sees double consists (2 locomotives and 8 carriages) to places like Warrnambool and Swan Hill. That's usually about it for adding extra cars for special occasions. Used to happen a lot more.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Is there still such thing these days for V/Line trains ?
Or Is It just that there are x amount of seats (no different to normal) and you miss out on a seat If you don't book early enough ?

A charter bus (or more) running along side trains for people despite for a public transport journey.
Nightfire

Basically all gone now...

It'd be lucky if there were an extra car on the Inter-City V/Line services, perhaps a parallel bus as you mention, but more likely not...in part because there are far more services operating these days to all the far flung destinations of the state.

Mike.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Usually Christmas sees double consists (2 locomotives and 8 carriages) to places like Warrnambool and Swan Hill. That's usually about it for adding extra cars for special occasions. Used to happen a lot more.
Gman_86

Christmas day only....that's because it's free travel and our Sikh and other friends take full advantage and travel to far flung hitherto unknown destinations such as Bairnsdale, Warrnambool and Swan Hill.

This has nothing to do with anything else except it's free travel for a day.

Mike.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
In its last incarnation as an overnight service 4 nights a week each way . N class, D Van, BZ.BRS.ACZ.Roomette.Twinette,Motorail . patronage mid week as low as 60 beyond Maryborough . Highest passenger subsidy of any VLP long distance Inter City passenger service.
kuldalai

Interesting you say the figures were as 'low as 60' beyond Maryborough.

Actually in view of the hyperbole over passenger rail services to the north west these past 20 years, I'd have thought the figures would have been far LESS Exclamation

As a matter of interest when I was working in western Queensland for a while last year...I was able to travel by the overnight Brisbane to Charleville, 'Westlander' train which travels over 800 Km.

On one occasion the train left Brisbane with 6 pax on board...I was one of them.

Kinda makes 60 look a respectable number....

Mike.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Christmas day only....that's because it's free travel and our Sikh and other friends take full advantage and travel to far flung hitherto unknown destinations such as Bairnsdale, Warrnambool and Swan Hill.

This has nothing to do with anything else except it's free travel for a day.

Mike.
The Vinelander

I thought free travel on Christmas Day was only a fairly recent thing Confused
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
To digress slightly, Mike's reference to Black Thursday stirred the aged memory.  It used to be organised bedlam at Spencer Street.
Carriages and locos were dredged up from anywhere and everywhere - trains were leaving, others were immediately being docked at the just-vacated platforms,  and to this day I still marvel that it all seemed to work. The other aspect was the guys who logged all the consists and engines attached thereto. The whole lot was published, and I wish I'd kept at least one copy.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Interesting you say the figures were as 'low as 60' beyond Maryborough.

Actually in view of the hyperbole over passenger rail services to the north west these past 20 years, I'd have thought the figures would have been far LESS Exclamation

As a matter of interest when I was working in western Queensland for a while last year...I was able to travel by the overnight Brisbane to Charleville, 'Westlander' train which travels over 800 Km.

On one occasion the train left Brisbane with 6 pax on board...I was one of them.

Kinda makes 60 look a respectable number....

Mike.
The Vinelander

I know this is way off topic, but isn't The Westlander among the named loco hauled Queensland trains getting the chop this year? I could be mistaken though. If so, it's not surprising with only half a dozen passengers on some trains. As for 60 past Maryborough, that is still a fairly low number for a 4 or 5 carriage train, It's not much more than a road coach load really.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
I know this is way off topic, but isn't The Westlander among the named loco hauled Queensland trains getting the chop this year? I could be mistaken though. If so, it's not surprising with only half a dozen passengers on some trains. As for 60 past Maryborough, that is still a fairly low number for a 4 or 5 carriage train, It's not much more than a road coach load really.
Gman_86

Even further off topic I'm afraid...Sad

The Westlander has been 'getting the chop' for the last 18 months....it's still trundling along twice a week as we speak...

Mike.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
To digress slightly, Mike's reference to Black Thursday stirred the aged memory. It used to be organised bedlam at Spencer Street.
Carriages and locos were dredged up from anywhere and everywhere - trains were leaving, others were immediately being docked at the just-vacated platforms, and to this day I still marvel that it all seemed to work. The other aspect was the guys who logged all the consists and engines attached thereto. The whole lot was published, and I wish I'd kept at least one copy.
Valvegear

I've seen a photo (no reference, sorry) of a 7 car original suburban Harris set being hauled by a loco to Geelong on a timetabled passenger service, at a time when any and every passenger carriage was pulled into service.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The few occasions that  Harris cars were loco hauled to and from Geelong were for bulk school group travel to Melbourne for major events . It only happened two or three times back in VR/ Vicrail days .
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
The few occasions that Harris cars were loco hauled to and from Geelong were for bulk school group travel to Melbourne for major events . It only happened two or three times back in VR/ Vicrail days .
kuldalai

Ah okay, thanks for the information, kuldalai. That's something I didn't know Smile
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
To digress slightly, Mike's reference to Black Thursday stirred the aged memory. It used to be organised bedlam at Spencer Street.
Carriages and locos were dredged up from anywhere and everywhere - trains were leaving, others were immediately being docked at the just-vacated platforms, and to this day I still marvel that it all seemed to work. The other aspect was the guys who logged all the consists and engines attached thereto. The whole lot was published, and I wish I'd kept at least one copy.
Valvegear

Those were the days when railways in this state could actually do things and provided a service. Now under 'privatisation' Metro and V/line wouldn't know one day from the next.

Things like the Adelaide mailvan on the 1725 Ballarat for attaching to the Overland there and an UP Mansfield RM (return working of a Black Thursday evening DOWN) arriving at Spencer Street around midnight 'may convey passengers offering'. All this plus 2 or 3 Adelaides, 3 or 4 Sydneys, a Wonthaggi pass run by an A2 to name a few.

Umpteen Geelongs, Seymours, Heathcotes, Wangarattas, Numurkahs, Ballarats, Bendigos and Mildura etc of course. Rs everywhere (Ballarat and Bendigo especially), A2s, Cs and Xs also common.

Bacchus Marsh and Werribee D3s, Ks, Ns plus Ws on the 1719 Werribee.

This is just an indicative snapshot.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Even further off topic I'm afraid...Sad

The Westlander has been 'getting the chop' for the last 18 months....it's still trundling along twice a week as we speak...

Mike.
The Vinelander

The Westie and Inlander have been taled about getting the chop for last 10 years.

The axing of the respective states trains is in part based on the finacial status of the respective state at the time. People quickly forget how borke Vic was in 1991, $60B for 3m people. Land taxes, 25% office vacancy in the CBD, tax to bail out Pyramid Building Society, selling what hadn't been previously leased.

Qld is currently going through similar pain, however as noted above, the lack of users will be the main driver for Qld. However I think the shear low numbers on the Westie says to me that potentially its in the best interest of the people of Qld to cut it immediately. How long before we hear a service having less than the on board staff or even zero. If this was to hit the media, watch the govt move fast. when the offical annoucement finally does come, the govt doesn't even need to use the age of the rollingstock as an excuse.

Back to Mildura, I do see a future in this train service. Unlike Charlieville, there is more people and growing. A slightly longer route will be ok if the average train speed is reasonable.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Even further off topic I'm afraid...Sad

The Westlander has been 'getting the chop' for the last 18 months....it's still trundling along twice a week as we speak...

Mike.
The Vinelander

The fact that the State of Queensland Is spiling deeper and deeper In to crippling debt, means the camels back has to break very soon with the trains future.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The axing of the respective states trains is in part based on the finacial status of the respective state at the time. People quickly forget how borke Vic was in 1991, $60B for 3m people. Land taxes, 25% office vacancy in the CBD, tax to bail out Pyramid Building Society, selling what hadn't been previously leased.
RTT_Rules

Did you live here in the early 1990's?  Things weren't nearly as bad as the conservatives painted them out to be; I actually think there's more unemployment now than there was back then - it's just that they're better at hiding the unemployed now-days in 'work for the dole' and the universities Wink. Selling the SEC has pushed our retail prices to among the highest in the world; however Jeff saw the opportunity as the first state to push mass privatisations and because we were the first it was the most successful.

Pyramid was beyond anyone's control but making the decision to guarantee the damn thing was a stupid mistake in my opinion.  On the other hand, if they hadn't done that then tens of thousands of (mostly rural) people would have lost their life savings... damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I had family members who lived in one of the towns that lost their rail service under Jeff; not only did they lose their train but there were mass-sackings in services like health, justice and the water services.  You can't attract new residents (a la their current campaign to convince people to move to the 'regions') by stripping services; city people are already turned off by the fact that you can't get services easily in the bush.  Tourism and businesses really suffered - you could drive down the main street and every third shop was empty... it recovered for a while about 10 years ago but it's even worse than the early 90's today.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Did you live here in the early 1990's? Things weren't nearly as bad as the conservatives painted them out to be; I actually think there's more unemployment now than there was back then - it's just that they're better at hiding the unemployed now-days in 'work for the dole' and the universities Wink. Selling the SEC has pushed our retail prices to among the highest in the world; however Jeff saw the opportunity as the first state to push mass privatisations and because we were the first it was the most successful.

Pyramid was beyond anyone's control but making the decision to guarantee the damn thing was a stupid mistake in my opinion. On the other hand, if they hadn't done that then tens of thousands of (mostly rural) people would have lost their life savings... damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I had family members who lived in one of the towns that lost their rail service under Jeff; not only did they lose their train but there were mass-sackings in services like health, justice and the water services. You can't attract new residents (a la their current campaign to convince people to move to the 'regions') by stripping services; city people are already turned off by the fact that you can't get services easily in the bush. Tourism and businesses really suffered - you could drive down the main street and every third shop was empty... it recovered for a while about 10 years ago but it's even worse than the early 90's today.
don_dunstan

No, I lived in Tassie (Launceston) at the time. I worked at the newspaper to pay by way through Uni. Tassie was supposed to be the worst in the country, but trips to Melbourne used to shock me with all the closed shops etc. For some reason it was more in your face, living in Tas I never felt like I lived in a depressed economy. But alot of the jobs were at factories in regional areas and the pay outs were generally large. I (as a main lander) got job through word of mouth in Tassie which was no mean feat.

No, unemployment back then was much higher. 12-13% in Tas, 10+% in Vic if I recall. Tas stop spending money period. No Police recruitment for a number of years, 5000 teachers/PS etc gone. When you are broke, the govt needs to do what it takes to stop the leak or end up like Greece. Living in denial only results in ending up like Greece or Spain. They haven't just lost their jobs, they have lost services. PT networks closed, airports closed, hospitals closed.

25% office vacancy is a strong tell tail of the lack of jobs back then. Kennent (LNP) turned Vic around relatively quickly. Tassie took much longer nearly a decade as they have less to work with. Jim cox (ALP) made all the hard decisions in Tas, but the Greens didn't like the cutting of education and divorced the govt leading to a further election and LNP got back in, but I remember the political guys on TV saying, who ever gets in doesn't matter, they have no budget of party policy.

Vic doesn't have the highest power prices in the world. They are similar to the other states which are still some of the cheapest in the developed world. Kennent sold stuff because he had to. $60B is $2000 in interest per man woman and child per year. It wasn't an Kennent LNP thing, Tassie ALP and Fed ALP's all were on that band wagon and subsequent VIC ALP govts have no chosen to reverse the trend.

Alot of regional towns are struggling to justify their existence with the modern era of online retail/govt services and general business rationalisation. The days of needing a town within a half days horse ride of a farm are long gone. The ability to finish school at 15/16 and find well-paid life long employment with no further training is also getting more difficult. The govt allows employers to recruit using a 457 visa because it cannot find a skilled worker with a trade or degree, not unskilled labour.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The fact that the State of Queensland Is spiling deeper and deeper In to crippling debt, means the camels back has to break very soon with the trains future.
Nightfire


You wonder with all the revenue from coal and commodities in Queensland how they could not be breaking even as a state.  Then again they did sell their rail system which was providing a lot of revenue to the state?

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