New Metro timetables from July 27

 
  712M Chief Commissioner

New timetables are now available on the PTV website.

Two extra peak services each direction on the Frankston line have been added. A welcome addition due to the heavy loadings currently experienced on the loop all-stoppers.

The Pakenham/Cranbourne lines have been rewritten from scratch. No trains will stop at Malvern, Armadale, Toorak or Hawksburn except for a handful of weekend morning and late night trips. All trains however will stop at Carnegie, Murrumbeena and Hughesdale. Trains between the peaks will run every 10 minutes to Dandenong to match the weekends.

Cranbourne will now see a 15 minute service during peak hours which will mean an improved frequency in the PM but a worse frequency in the AM. This will hopefully distribute the load more evenly and eliminate the current ~40 minute gaps between counter peak services.

V/Line Traralgon trains will continue to run slow, some off peak trains taking up to 10 minutes longer account of the extra Metro trains. I was surprised to see that Bairnsdale will now receive a service arriving in Melbourne before 9am with the addition of a 4.35am Bairnsdale to Traralgon coach.

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  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Regarding Traralgon services running through the suburbs, how common is it at the moment for V/Line services to overtake Metro Pakenham/ Cranbourne services where possible? I'm assuming it would be tricky, and everything would have to be running spot on time, but as I see it, there is the facility for V/Line trains to overtake at Oakleigh, Westall and Dandenong. Does this ever happen at the moment? Is it more or less likely to happen now with the new timetable?
  GvhftrKijl Locomotive Driver

Location: ERD
Regarding Traralgon services running through the suburbs, how common is it at the moment for V/Line services to overtake Metro Pakenham/ Cranbourne services where possible? I'm assuming it would be tricky, and everything would have to be running spot on time, but as I see it, there is the facility for V/Line trains to overtake at Oakleigh, Westall and Dandenong. Does this ever happen at the moment? Is it more or less likely to happen now with the new timetable?
"Gman_86"


Quite correct, it is indeed possible, but highly unlikely - to my knowledge, signallers are instructed by Metrol to keep everything in order no matter what.

Case in point: an Up Pakenham running an express pattern to Caulfield pulls into Dandenong on time. About the same time (or even a minute later), an Up Cranbourne pulls into Dandenong three minutes late. The Up Cranbourne by rights is meant to depart three minutes earlier, and on paper there is sufficient separation between the Up Cranbourne and Up Pakenham that the latter can comfortably run express.

Because of the late running of the Up Cranbourne, common sense would dictate that the Up Pakenham would get the signal first so it's' express running is not impeded. But because the Up Cranbourne is due out first (and trains MUST be kept in order!) they get the signal, and the Up Pakenham, that arrived on time, leaves Dandenong a couple of minutes late, crawls along getting restrictive signals on account of following the Up Cranbourne stopper and by the time it gets to Caulfield seven minutes late, the Driver is being instructed to run direct to Flinders Street.

So, as far as VLine services go, can be done, probably won't be done.
  TrackRailroad Train Controller

Location: Frankston Line
Any other lines getting upgraded?? I would like to see a max 15 minute headway on Frankston/ Pakenham/ Cranbourne in the evenings and mornings on all days. I use these lines often and the evening services, e.g after 8pm are often very busy. Same with the Lilydale/ Belgrave line which can probably justify trains every 15 minutes at night too.

Also would be good if Sydenham/ Cragieburn/ Werribee etc can improved off peak services, maybe trains every 12-15 minutes in off peak, eventually every 10? Maybe Regional Rail Link will allow this to happen. The growth on these lines has been phonemonal and the government has been hopeless in accomdating for the growth. Sunbury is the only one which has seen major improvement. But than still dumb decisions like running Sunbury trains every 40 minutes off peak and every hour at night!! Do not take away their fast V-line services to give them a slightly better frequency and stopping all stations services. All Sydenham trains should run to Sunbury, least than people can well least we are getting FAR MORE services so we will put up with a slower train etc.

Extra services in this timetable, but plenty to be done!!! Wish they would quad at least to Springvale so decent express services could be run all day.
  L1150 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Pakenham Vic.
Regarding Traralgon services running through the suburbs, how common is it at the moment for V/Line services to overtake Metro Pakenham/ Cranbourne services where possible? I'm assuming it would be tricky, and everything would have to be running spot on time, but as I see it, there is the facility for V/Line trains to overtake at Oakleigh, Westall and Dandenong. Does this ever happen at the moment? Is it more or less likely to happen now with the new timetable?
Gman_86

Although it's not very common, I have been on down Vline services that have been run through platform 3 at Oakleigh to overtake down sparks. Westall is not really able to allow trains to overtake.  It might be possible for down services, if the signalling can handle it, but I'm not aware of it actually having taken place. It is quite frustrating that no loop was put in, in the up direction when the redevelopment was done a few years back as Westall would be an ideal place for overtaking maneuvers. Dandenong is able to allow Vline trains to overtake sparks. My personal experience reveals a lot of inconsistency. There have been times when the right thing has been done, but frustratingly, at other times, really stupid decisions have been made, such as an up Vline and up Cranbourne both arriving at the same time into platforms 1 & 2, and the up Cranbourne all stations has left before the Vline!
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Overtaking trains? You really think they have the level of competence required to pull that off?

Just look at the Sunbury to Melbourne Airport bus upgrades as an example.

This is the link for Bendigo/northwestern Victorians (and Sunbury) to access the airport, not the far slower airport rail plan as Napthine contends in various campaign fodder.

However, apparently, whilst being upgraded this service will have random times and not connect with Vline services (as any rational planner would desire).

Seriously, you have to question whether it's necessary for there to be a wholesale restructuring of the department (that is, getting rid of the deadweight and actually employing some planners with a clue) if they can't manage simple stuff like this. Though to play the devil's advocate, even if they had the willpower to plan for overtaking stoppers the reliability and timekeeping of the network would need to be vastly improved for it not to become an ugly mess.

We also really need public transport advocates pushing for quadding, and not stupid economically unjustifiable pop-projects like Doncaster and Rowville rail (my thoughts on implementation are scattered elsewhere within the forums).

GvhftrKijl-Because of the late running of the Up Cranbourne, common sense would dictate that the Up Pakenham would get the signal first so it's' express running is not impeded. But because the Up Cranbourne is due out first (and trains MUST be kept in order!) they get the signal, and the Up Pakenham, that arrived on time, leaves Dandenong a couple of minutes late, crawls along getting restrictive signals on account of following the Up Cranbourne stopper and by the time it gets to Caulfield seven minutes late, the Driver is being instructed to run direct to Flinders Street.

I'm missing the issue - if it was only scheduled three minutes after then it's hardly the greatest express to begin with.

Putting it in front offers little benefit but messes things up further down the line.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Holy frell.

http://ptv.vic.gov.au/route/view/8185

Compare that with the Bendigo Vline timetable - they've completely ignored it.

The current management of PTV seriously needs to be sacked and some actual talent brought in, this is beyond a joke.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Same with the Lilydale/ Belgrave line which can probably justify trains every 15 minutes at night too.
chi01

Technically, the Ringwood line already has 15 minute trains until around 10PM, however they are outbound (down) services only (every second train is a Ringwood too, going no further, so catching one leaves you waiting 15 minutes for the next Lilydale/Belgrave anyway, even if it's sitting in the platform opposite the train you just got off). Beyond Ringwood however, it's every half an hour off-peak even during the middle of the day, as it has been since the dawn of time (this side of town never gets a timetable update unless it's a way to ferry even more office workers to the city at 6AM).

As for up services beyond 8:00 at night, not a chance - the 8:36 (weekdays) from Ringwood is the last frequent service - a 3 carriage train stopping all stations except East Richmond whilst an 8:34 up Belgrave departs on the other side, which has 6 carriages and practically runs express all the way to the city, only stopping all stations beyond Camberwell for some reason, despite Auburn, Hawthorn and Burnley being completely devoid of passengers more often than not. After the 8:36, the trains departing Ringwood are every half an hour until 11:36 (and 11:39 on the weekend).
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The Northern Group  Metro tt gets a complete new tt from April/May next year when the RRL Geelong leg opens. Then total new tt as all Geelongs and Ballarats will then be separated from Metro, and Bendigos will be separate out as far as Sunshine .   VLP paths released will allow for extra services on Werribee,  Watergardens and  even some extra Peak Craigieburns using potentially Broady flyover at Nth Melb and plats 5/6 Nth Melb direct to Flinders St.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

I see that there is and extra down afternnon train to Maryborough on Saturdays and Sundays as from the 27th July, the must be making it a six car Velocity for the AM departures  for the next day............
  712M Chief Commissioner

I see that there is and extra down afternnon train to Maryborough on Saturdays and Sundays as from the 27th July, the must be making it a six car Velocity for the AM departures  for the next day............
"trainbrain"


Incorrect. The PM Maryborough departure from Southern Cross has been pushed back 2 hours to 18:08 to match the other InterCity departures. Not very well thought out though. There is a train/coach service via Castlemaine that departs 12 minutes earlier with nearly the same travel time.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Incorrect. The PM Maryborough departure from Southern Cross has been pushed back 2 hours to 18:08 to match the other InterCity departures. Not very well thought out though. There is a train/coach service via Castlemaine that departs 12 minutes earlier with nearly the same travel time.
712M

Before you quote me mate as being incorrect, I suggest u have another look at the PTV website, and check the new Maryborough/ Ballarat aand melbourne, timetable for new timetables marked 27th July until further notice, look closely at the the down afternoon schedule, the 4.08pm departure for both Sat and Sundays say TRAIN to Maryborough at well as a depature at 6.08 to Maryborough, who then is incorrect?
  Madjikthise Deputy Commissioner

It seems every time someone mentions the poor off peak service to Lilydale & Belgrave someone says "but there already is a 15 min service to Ringwood".
Believe it or not there have been a number of houses and businesses built beyond Ringwood. Do you really believe 2 trains per hour is acceptable to Lilydale & Belgrave in 2014?
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
I gave up trying to live in both Mooroolbark and Croydon over 10 years ago, the buses were a joke then (in Mooroolbark at least) and nothing has changed since! Actually, the only thing which has changed was the weekend train timetable, with the Sunday timetable going from 40 minutes to 30 minutes (big deal) and trains running every 20 (not 10) minutes instead of 30 during the day (the weekday timetable has been left practically unchanged since red rattlers were still going there, or the blue Harris trains I remember as a little kid, with all the doors wide open and stopped over the creek(!) at Mooroolbark waiting for the up Lilydale to get out of the way - a number of people did jump off there, too).

Well, at least Croydon will be seeing a few more buses, with the 366 and 367 being replaced with the 380, which is basically a 366/367 which changes to the other when it reaches Ringwood or Croydon, forming a circular route. The 380 will have the frequency and finishing times of the 366 (save for the last bus, which has been dropped unfortunately), so it will be a lot better than the old 367's timetable at least.
  712M Chief Commissioner

Before you quote me mate as being incorrect, I suggest u have another look at the PTV website, and check the new Maryborough/ Ballarat aand melbourne, timetable for new timetables marked 27th July until further notice, look closely at the the down afternoon schedule, the 4.08pm departure for both Sat and Sundays say TRAIN to Maryborough at well as a depature at 6.08 to Maryborough, who then is incorrect?
"trainbrain"


See http://www.vline.com.au/pdf/timetables/maryborough1.pdf . The 16:08 weekend departure is now a Wendouree train.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

See http://www.vline.com.au/pdf/timetables/maryborough1.pdf . The 16:08 weekend departure is now a Wendouree train.
712M

The PTV has kept changing its Website almost daily,, I have downloaded and photocopied  the page saying that the 4.08 pm trains is to Maryborough and also the 6.08pm train to Maryborough for both Saturday and Sunday arvo,s.  They have changed it at least have a dozen times.........
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
As it stands right now, the timetable says 1808 Sat. and Sun. Southern Cross to Maryborough!
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
The reason why no express trains on the Hurstbridge line in off peak times - from Public transport minster office:

Due to low patronage , there are no express trains during weekday off peak periods and on weekends.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
An excellent and entirely valid reason.

Frankly I'd be disgusted if money was being wasted providing express service to an empty place like Hurstbridge.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
An excellent and entirely valid reason.

Frankly I'd be disgusted if money was being wasted providing express service to an empty place like Hurstbridge.
ZH836301

It valid to have express on the line in off-peak time - reason to get more people using off-peak services.

It valid to have express on the line in off-peak time - reason to get more people using off-peak services.

More people would use the service in off peak time - if the Express trains was brought back on the line or  other wise people like myself would just use the trains in peak time or travel to station like Clifton Hill or Even worst drive to a location that is walking distance from the city and park there (on the weekend) and get the free tram service (from next year).
  Madjikthise Deputy Commissioner

The reason why no express trains on the Hurstbridge line in off peak times - from Public transport minster office:

Due to low patronage , there are no express trains during weekday off peak periods and on weekends.
melbtrip

In other words they have zero interest in reducing travel times for anyone who dares to work outside the drone sector.
  Plan B Junior Train Controller

and even some extra Peak Craigieburns using potentially Broady flyover at Nth Melb and plats 5/6 Nth Melb direct to Flinders St.
kuldalai


I wonder if the bottleneck for those extra peak Craigieburns might be travelling the viaduct Spencer to Flinders and also using platform space at Flinders while it prepares to double back to the north?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
It valid to have express on the line in off-peak time - reason to get more people using off-peak services.
melbtrip

It's not.

Bumping up the frequency would be a much better option in terms of getting people to use the trains.

Last thing we need is variations in stopping patterns.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
It valid to have express on the line in off-peak time - reason to get more people using off-peak services.
melbtrip

How? The outer lengths of the Hurstbridge line represent a minuscule fraction of its patronage.


Let me guess.  You either live out there or travel out there to foam alongside the Eltham viaduct?


More people would use the service in off peak time - if the Express trains was brought back on the line or other wise people like myself would just use the trains in peak time or travel to station like Clifton Hill or Even worst drive to a location that is walking distance from the city and park there (on the weekend) and get the free tram service (from next year).
melbtrip

More people would use the service if your fabled express trains were utilised running more services in the sections where there is actually significant patronage.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
It valid to have express on the line in off-peak time - reason to get more people using off-peak services.- melbtrip


How? The outer lengths of the Hurstbridge line represent a minuscule fraction of its patronage.


Let me guess.  You either live out there or travel out there to foam alongside the Eltham viaduct?


More people would use the service in off peak time - if the Express trains was brought back on the line or other wise people like myself would just use the trains in peak time or travel to station like Clifton Hill or Even worst drive to a location that is walking distance from the city and park there (on the weekend) and get the free tram service (from next year).- melbtrip


More people would use the service if your fabled express trains were utilised running more services in the sections where there is actually significant patronage.




It would be waste of resources of having 10 mins services to place like Alphington, Dennis, Darebin and Eaglemont stations, but at same time places like Heidelberg, Ivanhoe and Fairfield should have a ten  mins service: I would have include any station after Heidelberg till Greensborough  - but there is problem of single track between Heidelberg and Rosanna station.

That why train line needs a two tier service :
Etham (Hurstbridge every 2nd train) stopping all stations to Heidelberg then Ivanhoe and then Fairfield and then may be Westgarth and then Clifton Hill and then express to Jolimont  and then to Flinders street  (every 20 mins)

5  to 10 mins after the express service from Heidelberg and then run stopping all station from Heidelberg to the City (every 20 mins)

This should allow the South Morang line to go express between Clifton Hill and Jolimont because stations like Victoria Park, Collingwood, West Richmond and North Richmond only get a small number of people using the service and these locations have lots of other services provide them with a more frequent service going to the city such as number of frequent smart buses and tram services.

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