Transperth C Series

  Mouse Chief Train Controller

The PTA has now released a Request for Information for the next generation of railcars.

They're looking at 50 trains over 10 years, and appear to be targeting permanently coupled 6 car sets.

Sponsored advertisement

  witzendoz Junior Train Controller

Location: Fremantle
It would make sense that if the future was for permanent 6 car trains to order them that way, only having 2 cabs for every six cars must work out cheaper then having 2 redundant cabs.

  Wallip Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth
I wouldn't be surprised if they just follow QR with an order to the same supplier in India. I would assume given the existing fleet is a copy of QRs stock, the WA specs and regulations would closely match as well, therefore buying the same trains again would save a lot of paperwork and commissioning.

On the other hand, I would think part of the order should be for 4 car sets for the rest of the network
  thewaratahtrain Chief Train Controller

If you haven't rea the RFI it's recommended you do, a new rolling stock maintenance depot will be constructed with a location yet to be determined, the tender if the PTA choose to proceed will be announced late next year, delivery will run from 2018 and take us through to 2028

The TransPerth train fleet will grow to around 600 railcars

48 2car A series or 96 railcars
68 3car B series or 204 railcars
50 6car C series or 300 railcars

600 railcars in total or 166 full sets

1.3.3 The following business requirements for the Project expand the business drivers stated above:

1) The specification shall enable open and competitive tendering.
2) The proposed railcars shall be proven to be suitable for supporting high performance metro/urban rail operations, at speeds of at least 130km/h with journey times to match the existing urban timetable across all PTA lines.
3) The proposed railcar set shall be of a length of approximately 144 metres, the maximum distance from the leading edge of the leading doorway to the trailing edge of the trailing doorway shall be approximately 135m.  
4) The proposed railcars shall maintain or improve current overall levels of safety.
5) The proposed railcars shall provide a suitable, easily re-configurable passenger environment.
6) The proposed railcars shall provide a passenger carrying capacity in excess of 1150 persons, standing area is calculated in accordance with EN 15663 and loadings of 6 passengers/m2 are applied to vestibule areas and 4 passengers/m2 in all other areas of the cars.
7) The proposed railcars shall support quick turn round through fast system initialisation times when driving ends are changed
8) The proposed railcars shall support the reduction of station dwell times with double leaf door portals spaced at intervals no greater than 5.5m on each vehicle side (equivalent to 4 doors per side of a 24metre vehicle).
9) The proposed railcars shall be capable of rescue of/by the PTA existing Rolling Stock fleet.
10) The proposed railcars shall support future developments of the PTA network including the upgrading of signalling/train control and digital radio communication systems.
11) The proposed railcars shall provide high levels of availability and reliability to meet with PTA operating demands.
12) The proposed railcars shall provide train operators with decision support systems for easy recovery from railcar faults.
13) The proposed railcars shall allow services to continue in degraded modes, with graceful degradation in case of failures.
14) The proposed railcars shall provide dynamic passenger loading data to a centralised monitoring station.
15) The proposed railcars shall support the remote provision of information to customers about delays and subsequent service recovery.
16) The proposed railcars shall enable efficient use of energy resources.
17) The proposed railcars shall contribute to improving customer satisfaction for public rail transport in Perth.
18) The proposed railcars shall be designed to facilitate easy upgrade, expansion and change to accommodate future infrastructure extension and the addition of new stations on existing lines.
1.4 Project Assumptions and Requirements
1.3.4 The following assumptions and requirements provide guidance to planning of the Project:

1) The PTA will procure the railcars, depot upgrade, special tools, spares and other infrastructure as agreed to be required to support the new railcar fleet
2) Delivery of the railcars is required to commence in 2018 and continue through to 2028 at a minimum rate of 5 railcar sets per year
3) The PTA urban rail network will be available for the dynamic commissioning of the railcars outside of normal operating hours
4) A suitable area will be made available for the railcar maintenance facility in order to be ready for the delivery of the first of the new railcars
5) Maintenance of the railcars is included for a minimum 15 year term, the structure of the maintenance contract is to be agreed

The Public Transport Authority (PTA) is seeking responses to this Request for Information for the supply of C Series Railcars.

The project scope will include:
•Design, build and deliver a minimum of 50off, railcar sets equivalent to an existing PTA six car B series train, over a ten year period, compatible with the entire PTA urban network.
•Design and upgrade of railcar maintenance, cleaning and stabling facilities.
•Operation of the maintenance, cleaning and stabling facility for a period of not less than 15 years.

This RFI is the first of a two stage tender process.  Following evaluation, successful respondents to this RFI may be shortlisted and subsequently invited to submit bids through a restricted tender process.  Alternatively PTA reserves the right to publicly advertise a tender.
  Wallip Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth
Thanks for all that.
Still at 6 car sets they would be predominantly for the North/South corridor. Whilst the airport line and associated Midland line stations might be built to 6 car length, I cant see them spending the cash to lengthen the rest of the system.
Following that libe of thought I would think Hillman would be the only space for a new maintenance depot.
  Kafoopsy Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth, WA
Now that they have all the new train's features worked out, they need to make it possible to actually get to them.  At many stations, if you aren't there by 7am, its a days walk from where you abandoned your car to the station!
  Wallip Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth
I have said for a while that Transperth need a large fleet if smaller busses running more frequently in loop patterns around the stations.
It is a fact that over 80% of the cars come from less than a 5min drive away.

It will be interesting to see if parking rates at Edgewater increase with the multi story carpark
  thewaratahtrain Chief Train Controller

300 rail cars to be bought over next 10 years
First cars won’t be bought until 2019
No light rail funding until at least 2017-18
WA’s train fleet will be doubled over the next 10 years, with the Barnett Government announcing it will spend $500 million on new rail cars.

However, it wont happen until 2019, despite the state’s well-documented congestion woes.

Treasurer Mike Nahan said 300 C-series rail cars would be bought over the next decade, starting with a $1.2 billion spend in 2019.

Planning for the project will begin soon, with $5 million set aside for 2015-16.
  thewaratahtrain Chief Train Controller

In mid-2015 the Western Australia Government committed $1.2 billion for the next generation of Transperth trains, known as the C-Series.

The funding will allow the Public Transport Authority to deliver 50 new trains over ten years from 2019 to meet expected demand growth by doubling the Transperth train fleet.  

Differing from the current trains on the network, the C-Series will be designed to increase passenger capacity and make it faster and safer for passengers to get on and off the trains. This will be achieved by:
  • A six-railcar configuration
  • Up to four doors either side of each railcar (as opposed to two doors on the current railcars)
  • Removal of the two intermediate driver cabs

Reducing the time a train is at a station will ultimately make the rail network more efficient.

The new C-Series trains will service the Joondalup and Mandurah lines, which have the greatest level of forecast future demand.

The B-Series, which currently service these lines, will be cascaded onto the Fremantle, Midland and Armadale lines as well as the Forrestfield-Airport Link when it is due to open in 2020

Procurement and contract details
The contract to design, build, deliver and maintain the new generation of rail cars is expected to be awarded in late-2016.
  doggie015 Junior Train Controller

Location: On a bus going from esplanade busport to canning bridge so I can catch a train to Esplanade station
Well, they'll pay the price by not having enough railcars available to keep up the current service frequency if the Airport line opens.

And that's without factoring in special events
  Wallip Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth
My Issue is the "All or Nothing" Approach.

Ok, so finances are a bit tight with the end of the mining construction boom, but why not just scale back and lets get 20 set on order now, and look to add to the order later.
  LL10194 Station Master

Location: Perth
I guess the Sunday Times / PerthNow got the scoop and referred to plans being shelved, but even reading that I doubted that we were looking at no new trains. The ABC had a more extensive article a little later on Sunday:

So the plan to place an order for 50 six-car sets in one hit may be shelved, but they just need to put together a new plan with two or three separate orders and maybe not quite getting to the same total and definitely having some date slippage. In the meantime one or two people have some egg on their faces. It had been a big announcement.

I do recall being slightly surprised when the numbers for the C-Series came out a year so back. The Public Transport in Perth in 2031 document foresaw an ”increase to 390 equivalent one-car units by 2031” only 90 above what we’ll have by the end of 2016 when the current order for the B-Series is completed. That report was only about five years old when we start hearing about a total of 600 cars by 2029. That always seemed ambitious to me. I’m not saying we don’t need a whole lot of new trains, just that it is no surprise that the numbers and dates are being revised. They will happen, just not as soon as some of us may have hoped.

And then there is this afternoon's update - maybe some more B's as a short term stop gap before the C's. Sadly that didn't surprise me either.

  thewaratahtrain Chief Train Controller

Barnett government to order more B series

The State Government is expected to buy more “B-series” rail cars to service the new Forrestfield-Airport rail link so a $1.2 billion order for next-generation trains can be pushed back
  Kafoopsy Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth, WA
I wish they would stop referring to individual carriages as railcars.  They are permanently coupled into 3 or 6 car sets.  It is done just to make the numbers sound bigger.
  fastrak44 Junior Train Controller

Location: 100 metres from what will be electrified railway in the next 5 years.
Doesn't look like this will happen any time soon:

New Perth railcars in doubt as WA Government reconsiders $1.2b promise
  LL10194 Station Master

Location: Perth
Yes I know that this is an old thread, but some of the detail in it is quite relevant.

Can we assume that the new planned order for 102 cars in the recent 2017 budget constitutes the start of the C-series? The budget fact sheets just mention the number of cars, deeper in the text of the budget it is mentioned that they will be six car sets but no more detail. A media statement on the fourth of October explicitly says 17 six-car sets. Do we assume that they will follow the planned C-series from a few years ago? The one thing that bugged me about those was the increase from two sets of doors each side to four – that seemed like overkill to me, how many seats would you end up with? Three doors seems sensible to me, Melbourne’s new High Capacity Metro Trains will have three for a similar carriage length I believe. London’s Crossrail – three for slightly shorter cars. This isn’t London’s Circle Line or Tokyo's Yamanote.

So the latest media statement is to gain interest with local industry and suppliers. Has anyone heard if the detail of this C-series will stick to that of the last RFI?
  Mouse Chief Train Controller

Looks like this is the presentation from that briefing:

In a nutshell:
  • It looks like these are indeed the C-series
  • Designed forhigh capacity and reduce dwell times with "up to" 4 doors per side per carriage
  • Ready for ATC signalling
  • 5 - 6 trains per year starting 2021

It also mentions that the A series are programmed for replacement following this order.

EDIT: Sorry it's plain text and not a hyperlink; the actual link kept getting mangled by Railpage.
  LL10194 Station Master

Location: Perth
That was a nice find Mouse, thanks!

So, yes, up to 4 sets of doors each side for the C-Series, so it could still be three. Nothing set in stone yet.

The three other interesting points I take from that document:

The first six sets due in 2021 are notionally “ready for Thornlie-Cockburn and Yanchep” so those five new stations should open around then.

The initial budget allocation for planning for the Midland station relocation and Bellevue extension is forty odd percent greater than that allocated for planning for the Ellenbrook line with its six stations. I guess the Midland project may include the new Bellevue yards which will be needed for the Cs? The actual priority level of Ellenbrook really doesn’t seem very high. Leave it long enough and the numbers may add up to do something more interesting than a spur off the Midland line.

The A-Series are to be replaced from 2024. So a follow on order of C-Series of at least the same size could be expected to allow some of the Bs to start to cascade down to the old lines.
  LL10194 Station Master

Location: Perth
The anticipation for the C-series continues to build...

A media statement on Sunday telling us that there will be a tender put out later this week, the surprise is the number of sets. In the 2017/18 budget last September (for anyone interstate, our last state election threw the normal timing for the budget out of whack) there was a commitment to 102 rail cars, or 17 six car sets, notionally for the Yanchep Extension and Thornlie Extension. The latest announcement is for the same 17 sets plus 24 sets to allow for the retirement of the A-series.

So 41 six car sets over ten years, thirty years of maintenance, and one would have to guess contract options to increase the order at a later date. A bigger initial order may get a better price, especially as government wants 50% local WA content.

It is over three and a half years since the previous government was talking about an order of 50 six car sets. It seemed a tad premature then. Instead we got another order of extra B-Series to fill the gap for the Forrestfield Airport Link demand, which was probably a decent solution at the time.

The replacement of the A-series referred to is interesting – 24 new C-series on the Joondalup and Mandurah line would allow for 48 of the B-series to eventually cascade to the older three lines, so notionally a one-for-one replacement of two car A’s with three car B’s. So some capacity for long term growth is allowed for there.

The announcement was made by the Premier and the Transport Minister in front of the first of the last order of B-series sets. The 246 single car equivalent of this new C-series order just exceeds (by twelve) what will be the total of the B-series cars when the last arrives next year, about fifteen years after the first.

I will be looking for this tender later in the week. I look forward to seeing the detail.
  LL10194 Station Master

Location: Perth
Ahh – my slow typing lets me down again. The tender is out.

It includes parts regarding the new depot at Bellevue, that was no surprise. The surprise was the inclusion of ‘the supply of diesel powered railcars to replace the Australind fleet’.

As for the new C-series EMUs I’ll quote part:

1) ANZ Small and Medium size Enterprises (SME’s) shall be given full, fair and reasonable opportunity to participate in the manufacture, assembly and whole of life maintenance of the railcars. Assembly and whole of life maintenance of the railcars will be undertaken in Western Australia and will provide for jobs in Western Australia;
2) New EMU railcars shall be capable of operating all PTA timetabled passenger services in conjunction with the existing A and B series railcars;
3) New railcars shall be capable of hauling and safe haulage by the A and B series EMU’s and haulage by PTA’s U201 locomotive;
4) Within the design life of 35 years there will be no requirement for any work to be conducted on the carbody or bogie structures to remediate corrosion, fatigue or any other potentially life limiting conditions;
5) EMU railcar interior and door configuration will provide for reliable, repeatable station dwell times below that of the existing EMU fleets and increased passenger capacity;
6) Railcar sets shall be of a fixed six-car formation, comprising two driving cars and four intermediate cars with wide intercar gangways to allow for unimpeded passenger flow throughout the set;
7) Railcar design shall support quick turn round through fast system initialisation times when driving ends are changed; 8) Network change such as train control/signalling system and radio communications system upgrades shall be supported by the railcar design;
9) High levels of availability and reliability shall be supported by decision support systems to reduce the passenger rail service impact of railcar faults;
10) Railcars shall enable efficient use of energy resources; and
11) Increased passenger satisfaction shall be achieved through an attractive, modern appearance and amenities that allow charging of handheld mobile devices and easy internet connectivity.

Hmmn, I'll look into it more a bit later.
  LL10194 Station Master

Location: Perth
So after a bit more of a read of the tender the only other things that jump out to me are;

This is a Prequalification RFI to be closely followed by a Negotiated RFI. I would have thought that prequalification had already happened, given the local industry briefings late last year by various manufacturers. Contract to be awarded in March next year.

First C-series set to be in service by December 2021, then deliveries at a rate of five sets per year. If they stick to that timeframe the first of the C’s that will allow the A’s to start retiring will enter service in 2025.

The PM is in town today, so we can expect some kind of co-funding announcements, and then a couple of weeks to the state budget for more detail on the various projects.
  LL10194 Station Master

Location: Perth
So Alstom has been selected as the preferred proponent for the C Series.

I was guessing something similar to the Melbourne X'Trapolis, someone has already updated a Wikipedia page suggesting it is to be based on the South African X'Trapolis Mega. I'm not sure of their source, maybe a guess based on the door spacing in the rendering on the Metronet site.

So Alstom also get to replace the Australind DMUs in the same package.

The first stage of the new Bellevue facilities are due to be finished in 2021, first of the C Series rolling in 2022. Seems a bit ambitious to me, but here is hoping...
  LL10194 Station Master

Location: Perth
So contracts have been signed and media statements made. There is a you-tube vid if you follow the Metronet link...

An interesting mixed seating layout.

Unfortunately the CG animation doesn't include the giant inflatable tentacles that you can see currently waving at you from the Art Gallery car park over the road. No people either. Perhaps they have all been eaten by the alien cephalopod and it has left for other hunting grounds.
  LL10194 Station Master

Location: Perth
A few of the recent news articles listed here for WA mention the C Series contract, the bit that surprised me slightly was the reference to an option for an additional 30 sets. That wasn’t mentioned in the WA Govt media statement or on the METRONET site, but seems to come from the Alstom media release. The final amount of the B Series (with a few orders and additions to orders) more than doubled the capacity of the A Series. This initial order of C Series will exceed the total B capacity, so just taking the first option of an additional 30 sets (in several years' time) will get close to doubling it.  The B series were dellivered to enter service over a fiteen year period. This is a serious step up. It will be interesting to watch how the new Cs on the Mandurah & Joondalup line allow the Bs to cascade down to replace the As on the older lines. And I’m guessing we will only see B’s on the FAL and the MEL in the short term.

Another few things from the CG animation of the C series: The doors at the end of each carriage are not as close to the end as the Melbourne X’traps, this seems a good idea to me – they are more evenly distributed over the train (and platform) as a whole. The Melbourne X’traps have doors between carriages like our old A series, not sure why, and glad that our proposed Cs don’t. And the cabs look a bit bigger than the A & B series. Perhaps space for the guards? Does anyone know if this is the case in Melbourne? Also the bottom lip to the doors at the platform edge that we have on the A & B Series isn’t there in the Cs? Still early days anyway.

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: Arrow_Pr, jontyb, Wallip

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.