Jay Weatherill's promised 30 year transport plan

 
  Sojourner Train Controller

To keep the Jumbos thread from going off track, here is the copy of the promises made in the 30 year transport plan for Adelaide which mentions the various mooted extensions to the tram network, The article is 14 months old, so maybe its down to being a 29 year plan and counting..

Taken from the ABC News Server 22/10/13,

Premier outlines 30-year transport plan for Adelaide

Updated 22 Oct 2013, 7:59amTue 22 Oct 2013, 7:59am

A transport plan costed at $36 billion and spanning the next three decades has been unveiled by Labor, with an eye on next year's South Australian poll.

A key part of the 30-year plan would be extending the Adelaide tram network to eastern, northern and southern suburbs and out to more beachside areas.

The proposed tram upgrade would include a city loop and new lines on Prospect Road, The Parade at Norwood, Unley Road, to Henley Beach and to Adelaide Airport.

The tram network would extend along the existing rail corridor and replace diesel services to Outer Harbor, Port Adelaide and Grange.

Premier Jay Weatherill said Adelaide had a great tram network until the 1950s when the lines were removed. He said he wanted the public to see where the transport growth opportunities were.
"This is a road map that will allow us to get there, to transform the way we live in South Australia," he said. "The projects we've put here are the ones that we believe are going to make the most difference."As well as trams, the plan looks at the future for buses, rail services, major roads, the state's ports and cycling infrastructure.

The Government said it would upgrade O-Bahn bus interchanges and routes and improve links with the CBD.

Terry Walsh of the Urban Development Institute welcomed the 30-year vision."We're very happy that there is a plan. We've been wanting to see a plan for some time," he said. Road Transport Association executive director Steve Shearer said it had been a long wait for a document on future transport planning. "It's really pleasing that after a long time waiting we now have a 30-year plan so it's not just a plan, it's a long-term plan," he said. "It looks on the surface like it's got all the things in it that we'd like to see, we have to look at the detail but the single most important thing is that we've now got something the Government's calling a plan and they're committing to implementing."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-21/premier-outlines-30-year-transport-vision-for-adelaide/5035746

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  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
To lazy to read through all of it.

Can you show me where the word promise appears?
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
To lazy to read through all of it.

Can you show me where the word promise appears?
"bingley hall"

I only see the word "Vison" mentioned

However the word "Promise" appears to be in an Opposition response
"Opposition frontbencher Vickie Chapman was sceptical.
"What is the Government going to deliver, not what's it going to promise?" was her response to the plan."

But then we had a one time Opposition Leader sit in a new tram at the openning of the Victoria Sq to City West extention and openly call it a "White Elephant"
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
That was really silly, I do remember that media stunt. Even at the time they must have realised they were wrong... every single time I've been to SA it's packed to the roof with tourists and locals alike.

Sojourner: The article that you've lifted there refers to the second (or third?) generation of 'transport plans' that were released. Coast-to-Coast (we were discussing in the other thread?) was an earlier version espoused by Rann (I believe).

EDIT Actually on closer inspection the one you've referenced here appears to advocate the conversion of the whole O/H Grange group to light rail; a different proposal again to Coast-to-Coast.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Wasn't this one just a distraction so that people would stop paying attention to the crisis at the Department of Education and Children's Services which was front page news at the time? Shiny things with pretty concept images will always get the job done there.
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
I only see the word "Vison" mentioned

However the word "Promise" appears to be in an Opposition response
"Opposition frontbencher Vickie Chapman was sceptical.
"What is the Government going to deliver, not what's it going to promise?" was her response to the plan."

But then we had a one time Opposition Leader sit in a new tram at the openning of the Victoria Sq to City West extention and openly call it a "White Elephant"
Pressman

I remember thinking at the time they were called White Elephants that they were more like white fleas as they are way too small and that the government should have ordered the XXL version of the flexity.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
The brand new secondhand Madrid Citadis trams are far superior to the Flexities in every way. Once the flexities wear out or are badly damaged etc then they should be replaced with more like the Citadis trams these are inviting to get into with plenty of light and standing room even when crowded. The Flexities on the other hand are very dull inside and rather cramped with a crowd on board. Yes I travelled on them a bit and at all times as well. Also the Citadis ride better on decent track, the line down King William Street south should have been replaced when they  had the trams out to relay all the rest of the track. This piece of track was and is shocking even in one of the old H class trams! It is getting worse all the time!
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I agree with you David about the relative comfort of Citadis over Flexity - those seats on Flexity are really uncomfortable!

With regards to converting the O/H group entirely to tram - I'm not sure if light rail vehicles would have the peak hour capacity or comfort that a 2-car train does? There's some significant advantages if they ever want to construct a spur line to Semaphore or West Lakes though.
  Southern Aurora Locomotive Driver

Was this the same "plan" that included Adelaide Parklands being abolished and Adelaide station being rebuilt to accomodate interstate trains again?
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner



With regards to converting the O/H group entirely to tram - I'm not sure if light rail vehicles would have the peak hour capacity or comfort that a 2-car train does? There's some significant advantages if they ever want to construct a spur line to Semaphore or West Lakes though.
don_dunstan

Don,

Think light rail NOT tram.
Think, shorter cars, about half heavy rail length as multiple units of 4, same capacity as a 2 car train.
Think Vienna/Baden or Karlsruhe.

Ian
  mclaren2007 Assistant Commissioner

Location: recharging my myki
What's the 30 year plan, we only managed one new piece of railway in the previous 30
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Was this the same "plan" that included Adelaide Parklands being abolished and Adelaide station being rebuilt to accomodate interstate trains again?
"Southern Aurora"

No, that plan belonged to the very same female opposition leader who branded the trams as White Elephants!
However that plan was to build a sports stadium where the new Hospital is being built and build a new interstate railway station under it, so the interstate trains wouldn't have been back in the original Railway Station at all ...... Also that plan called for some mythical engineering solution that would magically fit an 850 metre long Ghan into a 400 metre long platform!!
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
Also that plan called for some mythical engineering solution that would magically fit an 850 metre long Ghan into a 400 metre long platform!!
Pressman

They should get can vending machine manufacturers to work on it as they can get a 300' drop into a 6' tall machine to get the cans to spray everywhere when you open them.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
As soon as you read this, "A transport plan costed at $36 billion" in reference to Sth Aust, you know this is nothing more than a pipe dream. Even if the govt was as PT focused as they come, $36B out of the South Oz budget over 30 years is not doable.

For the record, I like vision but its Gunzel's dream, not a poltical vision.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Don,

Think light rail NOT tram.
Think, shorter cars, about half heavy rail length as multiple units of 4, same capacity as a 2 car train.
Think Vienna/Baden or Karlsruhe.

Ian
steam4ian

2 coupled Citadis trams would probably do the job (working with what you've already got); I believe that the couplers can be easily retrofitted. A single vehicle would suffice off-peak.

Some of the locals around Port Melbourne and St Kilda are unhappy with the conversion (some 20+ years later) I think because light rail vehicles simply have too many stops... however in the case of the Outer Habor lines I can't see that the timings would be much different from the current train? Don't know.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
... $36B out of the South Oz budget over 30 years is not doable.
RTT_Rules

Without Kevin Rudd's largesse of $4 billion we wouldn't be opening Regional Fast Rail in a few months. These big ticket things still get done but increasingly they don't happen without some kind of Commonwealth assistance.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

At present a public transport dream for SA is, unfortunately, almost irrelevant.

Without jobs people have no reason to go anywhere and no money to take them.

The City Council and, it seems, the government are hell bent on turning the CBD into a glass box slum; give it 30 years. Without business in the city people at Gawler or Seaford have no reason to go there and hence no reason to catch the trains.

Without nodes of either habitation or EEE* public transport cannot be efficient. (* employment, enjoyment, education).

Greater Adelaide's development is still car focused with scant reference to public transport. Suburbs are built and PT is left to some 10 or more years after people have moved in and established transport patterns and EEE habits.

The big "dream" was formulated on the basis that BHP would spend squillions at Olympic Dam and would underwrite government expenditure in SA. I for one understand why BHP pulled the pin and in some ways I am not sorry they did. I did, however, enjoy raising my professional fees to match the huge fees being gouged by consultants from the east and WA.

Let us dream of jobs. Lets us make SA really useful again, a "really useful engine" like Thomas; that has returned us to a rail related topic.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I am no fan of the idea either, but:

Also that plan called for some mythical engineering solution that would magically fit an 850 metre long Ghan into a 400 metre long platform!!
Pressman

What? Like splitting the train in two and using two platforms? smeg being an engineer gets harder and harder every day.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
I am no fan of the idea either, but:


What? Like splitting the train in two and using two platforms? smeg being an engineer gets harder and harder every day.
"Aaron"


The length issues where just the tip of the iceberg Aaron.
Other items not considered in the plan:-
Where would the storage and servicing area of rolling stock be?
Who would pay for the move?
Who would pay for the extra shunting if the storage and servicing area was "somewhere else"?
How would the Metro trains cope with having yet another SG / BG crossing point? (Maybe like Brisvegas they could limit interstate arrivals and departures to before 6am!)
All was discussed in previous threads

Anyways ........ all irrevalent now, doubt anyone would be brave enough to demolish the new Hospital and Research centre now
  Top Cat Assistant Commissioner

Location: Under Hilton Bridge
But Serco has already announced it intends to float and sell GSR.... so why is anyone bothering?
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Let us dream of jobs. Lets us make SA really useful again, a "really useful engine" like Thomas; that has returned us to a rail related topic.
steam4ian

Or like another Thomas - Tommie Playford IV.

I'd be interested to see how a Melbourne E Class tram would fare with Adelaide's current tram system - or indeed a future light rail system to Grange and Outer Harbour (perhaps Sempahore too).

The rollingstock within the immediate scope of that query, seat-wise:

  • 3x Jumbo set - 232 seats, combined capacity unknown. Probably 500+ I'd guess.

  • Pair of 3100s - 226 seats, combined capacity unknown.  Estimated 600-650 based on Comeng crush load

  • Citadis 302 - 64 seated, 186 combined

  • Flexity Classic - 70 seats, 170 combined

  • Melbourne E class tram - 64 seats, 210 combined

  torrens5022 Junior Train Controller

The Flexity classic has 70 seats and a capacity of 170, the E class has 64 seats and a capacity of 210 and the citadis 302 seats 54 (C2) and has a capacity of 186
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
You're right, mea culpa. I'll adjust the values accordingly.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
The length issues where just the tip of the iceberg Aaron.
Other items not considered in the plan:-
Where would the storage and servicing area of rolling stock be?
Pressman

Where it presently is. Why does it need to move? The space is there already, has been for some time now.

Who would pay for the move?
Pressman

Presumably a combination of pax, government and private enterprise.

Who would pay for the extra shunting if the storage and servicing area was "somewhere else"?
Pressman

The pax.

How would the Metro trains cope with having yet another SG / BG crossing point? (Maybe like Brisvegas they could limit interstate arrivals and departures to before 6am!)
Pressman

Quite simply, it's only some extra safeworking, some track circuits, axle counters, some signals, some additional software and controller/crew training. Not a whole lot different to a BG crossing or an SG crossing. A mixed gauge issue is hardly a stumbling block.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Where it presently is. Why does it need to move? The space is there already, has been for some time now.


Presumably a combination of pax, government and private enterprise.


The pax.


Quite simply, it's only some extra safeworking, some track circuits, axle counters, some signals, some additional software and controller/crew training. Not a whole lot different to a BG crossing or an SG crossing. A mixed gauge issue is hardly a stumbling block.
Aaron

Aaron, you've obviously thought this all out very thoroughly already.

Just like Diana and her minions did all those years ago, until the bleeding obvious dawned on them

So tell us, how many passengers a year would these changes benefit?

And exactly how many extra passengers would use the services as a result of these changes?

Thanks in advance.

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