50 level crossings to be removed

 
  historian Deputy Commissioner

Any news from out Frankston line way on how that is tracking for the 5 crossings there being sunk ? Can we expect a large construction blitz soon or in a spring shutdown for the final push. I expect it will take months??
Tii

Went for a trip to Stony Point last week and casually noticed the work.

Between the stations most of the piling has been completed for the platform boxes and the ramps, although we saw two (I think) vibrating piling machines. Construction appears to be the same basic idea as between Ormond & Bentleigh - steel channel piles, with a concrete beam at the top as reinforcement. They were working on the concrete beam. Some parts appeared completed, at other parts they were wiring up the rebar, and at others they'd only just started cutting off the tops of the piles.

Nothing has happened the stations themselves. I expect that the piling won't happen there until the stations are closed and demolished. This would explain why the stations will be closed well before the line.

Similarly, no work appears to have been done on the road crossings themselves, but quite a bit is likely to be done over weekends and then buried.

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  Tii Junior Train Controller

https://levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/media/publications/bell-and-preston-temporary-stations-fact-sheet

Looks like new temp stations will be set up in the upcoming May shutdown for Preston and Bell.
  LeroyW Junior Train Controller

Location: Awaiting MM2
https://levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/media/publications/bell-and-preston-temporary-stations-fact-sheet

Looks like new temp stations will be set up in the upcoming May shutdown for Preston and Bell.
Tii
Looks like the UP line will be the one that is closed, with trains shuttling on the Down tracks through the works area (we assume).
  Tii Junior Train Controller

https://levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/media/publications/bell-and-preston-temporary-stations-fact-sheet

Looks like new temp stations will be set up in the upcoming May shutdown for Preston and Bell.
Looks like the UP line will be the one that is closed, with trains shuttling on the Down tracks through the works area (we assume).
LeroyW
It physically looks that way when I go past. All the temp OLE is positioned that way. Most demolition will take place on the (edit correction) eastern side, so it needs to be clear.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

https://levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/media/publications/bell-and-preston-temporary-stations-fact-sheet

Looks like new temp stations will be set up in the upcoming May shutdown for Preston and Bell.
Looks like the UP line will be the one that is closed, with trains shuttling on the Down tracks through the works area (we assume).
It physically looks that way when I go past. All the temp OLE is positioned that way. Most demolition will take place on the western side, so it needs to be clear.
Tii
Only for 6 months, when the line will be totally shut down for cut over and commissioning.
Metro is trying to keep access to Epping for as long as they can. It is going to cause them major headaches with fleet and maintenance.

Lockie
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
https://levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/media/publications/bell-and-preston-temporary-stations-fact-sheet

Looks like new temp stations will be set up in the upcoming May shutdown for Preston and Bell.
Looks like the UP line will be the one that is closed, with trains shuttling on the Down tracks through the works area (we assume).
It physically looks that way when I go past. All the temp OLE is positioned that way. Most demolition will take place on the western side, so it needs to be clear.
Tii
Sorry guys but that seems contradictory. The up line is the eastern one, the down the western; so closing the up (east) with work happening on the west side of the line doesn't make sense to me. Am I missing something here?

Neil
  Tii Junior Train Controller

https://levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/media/publications/bell-and-preston-temporary-stations-fact-sheet

Looks like new temp stations will be set up in the upcoming May shutdown for Preston and Bell.
Looks like the UP line will be the one that is closed, with trains shuttling on the Down tracks through the works area (we assume).
It physically looks that way when I go past. All the temp OLE is positioned that way. Most demolition will take place on the western side, so it needs to be clear.
Sorry guys but that seems contradictory. The up line is the eastern one, the down the western; so closing the up (east) with work happening on the west side of the line doesn't make sense to me. Am I missing something here?

Neil
ngarner
Sorry- my error. I did mean the eastern side- brain fade. I've edited that now
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
Announcement by LXRP that the Lilydale line works are going to be accelerated so that the works are finished by the end of this year, not 2022.
Mooroolbark station closing for up to four months from July and Lilydale for six weeks in September. This will mean single long closures instead of multiple small ones over a prolonged period.
Also, first column poured at Lilydale.

Lilydale works

Neil
  Tii Junior Train Controller

Announcement by LXRP that the Lilydale line works are going to be accelerated so that the works are finished by the end of this year, not 2022.
Mooroolbark station closing for up to four months from July and Lilydale for six weeks in September. This will mean single long closures instead of multiple small ones over a prolonged period.
Also, first column poured at Lilydale.

Lilydale works

Neil
ngarner
Good news (well not for the locals directly impacted) but better to get it over and done with quickly for the gain later. I wish we could accelerate our Mernda Line changes starting Wednesday but the 4 crossings and corridor are a bit more tricky, along with access to the maintenance facility at epping needed. Bring on 2022.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Just curious: Are there maintenance that can only be done at Epping and not at Newport?
  Tii Junior Train Controller

Just curious: Are there maintenance that can only be done at Epping and not at Newport?
route14
I don't know if that's practical or not as I think Epping handles Hurstbridge and Mernda fleets. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can help us out on what takes place where and if another depot can help out for an interim time.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

They have experience with Reservoir so I suppose there is a way.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Just curious: Are there maintenance that can only be done at Epping and not at Newport?
I don't know if that's practical or not as I think Epping handles Hurstbridge and Mernda fleets. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can help us out on what takes place where and if another depot can help out for an interim time.
Tii
Happy to help on this one.

Maintenance is not the issue, fleet assets that require maintenance can be moved to Newport or Ringwood.

The issue and the reason the line is staying open for as long as possible is stabling capacity and fleet displacement.

Stabling Capacity, Metro simply does not have enough. With the trickle of Xtraps and the 65 HCMTS there is not enough spare capacity to move fleet assets around the network when a line is shut down. This reduces operational fleet capacity, meaning Metro does not have enough trains to run the timetable.

Pakenham East & Newport are being used to overflow displaced units at the moment, but with more HCMTS coming online this is ever reducing. Stabling has come online at Kananook, additional roads are under construction at Calder Park, Victoria Park and Watergardens to help. This is all good and well when you only have occupations on one line allowing you to move assets to keep the timetable running. The sheer number of overlapping projects (MM1, Hurstbridge, Sunbury, Cranbourne Line Upgrades and dozens of LX removals) means multiple stabling yards are impacted at the same time.

For the Preston and Bell removals, 20 roads are isolated from the network. Metro doesn't have anywhere to displace these trains, meaning the Clifton Hill Group is short 20 trains. Spare Comengs can be brought across the network to help, but this eats into 'live spare capacity' meaning trains faults are will result in cancellations as there is no spare capacity. Metro may choose to replace longer sections with busses to reduce runtimes for trains and help boost frequency.

The worst prediction for Metro is during the Frankston Line shutdown scheduled for October - December, where Metro estimates it will be short 33 units during serval days in November due to other occupations occurring on the network.

Similar shortages are predicted when LX removals kick off in Pakenham with 36 roads isolated at Pakenham East.

This is in part why the word 'fast tracked' keeps getting thrown around. Timelines for LX removals are being sped up to reduce occupational overlaps.

Lockie
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Brilliant Lockie, very informative
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
On the subject of stabling, Page Bros RV have moved out of Seaford.
That frees up the space to expand Kananook to the originally intended length.
  Jordy33 Locomotive Fireman

Kananook will be able to store 18 (6car) trains if they continue an expansion.

They might want to extend electrification to Baxter though, it would remove some crossings and Kananook wouldn’t need much of an expansion. The key thing is that the Frankston line should have the capacity to store all the trains it needs, we aren’t there yet as Kananook in its current state is just minor improvement after Carrum was redone with the LX removal.
  Jordy33 Locomotive Fireman

Kananook will be able to store 18 (6car) trains if they continue an expansion.

They might want to extend electrification to Baxter though, it would remove some crossings and Kananook wouldn’t need much of an expansion. The key thing is that the Frankston line should have the capacity to store all the trains it needs, we aren’t there yet as Kananook in its current state is just minor improvement after Carrum was redone with the LX removal.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Kananook will be able to store 18 (6car) trains if they continue an expansion.

They might want to extend electrification to Baxter though, it would remove some crossings and Kananook wouldn’t need much of an expansion. The key thing is that the Frankston line should have the capacity to store all the trains it needs, we aren’t there yet as Kananook in its current state is just minor improvement after Carrum was redone with the LX removal.
Jordy33
Missed the point, expansion to 18 roads is only good if you can access it. So during normal operations it great, but useless when it is isolated to one section of the line.

They only way to solve this and have enough units on each side of the occupation is to move trains before the shutdown. But if you don't have a spare 10 roads, you have nowhere to store these trains. This is Metro's issue, no extra capacity to store trains around the network during an occupation.

Lockie
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Where an occupation closes a section of track that isn't being worked on, would it perhaps be feasible to store trains on the line itself?
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
Where an occupation closes a section of track that isn't being worked on, would it perhaps be feasible to store trains on the line itself?
railblogger
Feasible, yes. Good idea, probably not. Imagine the joy of the graffiti gangs at unfettered access to multiple trains! No security guard(s) going to be able to be everywhere along a string of sparks sitting on open track.

Neil
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Although they did that in Dandenong Rd. with trams when the curves in front of Glenhuntly Depot were being worked on.
  Djebel Junior Train Controller

Where an occupation closes a section of track that isn't being worked on, would it perhaps be feasible to store trains on the line itself?
Feasible, yes. Good idea, probably not. Imagine the joy of the graffiti gangs at unfettered access to multiple trains! No security guard(s) going to be able to be everywhere along a string of sparks sitting on open track.

Neil
ngarner
Roster a few staff on overnight (like they do on Friday & Saturday nights) and keep the excess trains moving 24/7?
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Bring on the Comengs, I don't know why they're being restricted to the south side anyway, unless there's a shortage of Siemens trains or something. The whole network is a flustercuck with restricting trains on their own lines like M>Train is still around, Comengs can already run everywhere (unless of course north side drivers are no longer qualified to drive them), and the Siemens fleet should have gone system-wide last decade. The only trains which had issues were the X'Traps due to the cab layout and signal sighting.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Probably because of their inferior acceleration and service braking, making them no longer fit into the timetable.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Bring on the Comengs, I don't know why they're being restricted to the south side anyway, unless there's a shortage of Siemens trains or something. The whole network is a flustercuck with restricting trains on their own lines like M>Train is still around, Comengs can already run everywhere (unless of course north side drivers are no longer qualified to drive them), and the Siemens fleet should have gone system-wide last decade. The only trains which had issues were the X'Traps due to the cab layout and signal sighting.
Heihachi_73
Still missing the point of the issue here. It is not a compatibility issue, Metro can run Comengs wherever they like. Bringing 'active spare' units across from say the Northern Group increases the risk of ongoing cancellations on that group as well as wherever they have been sent.

For example, Northern Group has five 'active spare' units, these are trains on standby in the yards. If during the day a train needs to be pulled from service because of a fault one of the active spares will replace it. Depending on the issue the defective train could be out overnight or up to a week. If Metro takes 2 or 3 of these spare sets and pushes them into service on the Clifton Hill Group they run the risk of not having enough spare units for faults that may come up. During the occupation 3 sets on the Northern Group have faults, Metro needs to find another train to run the timetable, if they're lucky they may be able to use another group, say Cross City. Now we have a cascade going across multiple lines running with very limited active spare sets. If none are available then services simply get cancelled, if the train is out for 2 days all services that that train runs will be cancelled. (Connex ran the network with zero active spare units, it was part of there downfall)

The major issue for metro is not having enough spare roads to displace trains when an occupation is on. Metro needs a dozen spare roads to allow them to move trains around the network to keep the timetable running. It was announced yesterday that Steam Rail was being booted from Newport, this is a result of the above. Metro wants to use the yard to store displaced sets during occupations. Using Clifton Hill for example, if Metro had 12 roads at Newport, it would only have 6 marooned trains at Epping.

Where an occupation closes a section of track that isn't being worked on, would it perhaps be feasible to store trains on the line itself?
Railblogger

There will be no train movements during total occupation of a section of line, without the approval of the safe working officer. It is doable, but one hell of a muck around to get trains into the occupation and out again. The safety nannies would scrub it out as too risky. This in addition to having assets just sitting out for vandalism.
Also depends on where the limit of the electrical occupation is. There is a substation and cut off at Reservoir, another at Oakover road (in the middle of the works zone) and at Croxton. There is no cross over at Croxton making it getting trains in and out difficult as they would have to run and shunt at Clifton Hill. This also assumes there is no works happening between Clifton Hill and Croxton that require an electrical occupation.  

Lockie

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