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The Ashes 2015

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      Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Richmond Vic
    Mr Speaker; I rise to a point of order.
    The Australian women's cricket team cannot win the Ashes. The Ashes is a trophy unique to Anglo-Australian men's Test cricket and nothing else. I am undoubtedly not the only one here who has seen the trophy at it's home at Lord's. The origin of the name, derived from a dummy obituary notice in The Times, makes the Ashes unique.
    Unfortunately, it has become a habit to extend the term to any sport played between England and Australia - I have heard it misused for women's cricket, Rugby League, Rugby Union and even Hockey. The origin of the misuse is, naturally, the media, famed for its lack of accuracy in so many instances, and it drives me nuts.
    Posted: 29 Jul 2015 10:16

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      TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

    Location: Ankh Morpork
    The series is 3 ODIs (now completed with the Aussies winning 2 - 1), one test starting on 11/8, then 3 T20 games.
    Donald
    I read it was 7 tests, but perhaps it is 7 games, 3 x ODI, 1 Test and 3 x Twenty20 ?

    And yes, it should not be called the Women's Ashes, but the term is in use everywhere. While it is lovely to see the ladies beat the poms (actually our national sport, beating the poms at anything) I must admit the games are not particularly riveting.

    So what's next? The Tiddlywinks Ashes?
    Posted: 29 Jul 2015 13:46

    Last edited by TheBlacksmith on 29 Jul 2015 13:47; edited 1 time in total
      Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: In exile
    So what's next? The Tiddlywinks Ashes?
    TheBlacksmith
    Perhaps David Warner, Steve Smith & Michael Clarke might do better at that than they did with the bat this morning! Mr. Green
    Posted: 29 Jul 2015 21:39
      bevans Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    So what's next? The Tiddlywinks Ashes?
    Perhaps David Warner, Steve Smith & Michael Clarke might do better at that than they did with the bat this morning! Mr. Green
    Graham4405

    Australian is real trouble again. Michael Clarke so far an ordinary tour.
    Posted: 30 Jul 2015 07:35
      bevans Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    So what's next? The Tiddlywinks Ashes?
    Perhaps David Warner, Steve Smith & Michael Clarke might do better at that than they did with the bat this morning! Mr. Green

    Australian is real trouble again. Michael Clarke so far an ordinary tour.
    Posted: 30 Jul 2015 07:35
      Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Richmond Vic
    At last - a typical English seaming wicket. Rogers, with his great experience there, showed how to bat on it.
    Now Australia has to limit the England lead to 100 or less and bat well - the pitch should roll out into a good batting strip for days 2 and 3 at least. If we can do this, I fancy our bowlers on a flatter wicket - look at the last day at Lords.
    It's not that long ago that they rolled us in Melbourne on Boxing day for a low first innings score but Hayden and Symons got a ton each in the second dig, and we bowled them out for a good win.
    It would help if someone could teach people like Voges and M Marsh the need for patient batting... watch Rogers !


    This one's not over yet.
    Posted: 30 Jul 2015 08:24

    Last edited by Valvegear on 30 Jul 2015 08:45; edited 3 times in total
      TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

    Location: Ankh Morpork
    I agree. So far Rogers has been the standout performer for the Australia side, in my opinion. Despite his collywobbles and such, he has put in a workmanlike performance each time and show what a real opener should do. With the controlled attack from Anderson and Broad, he has stood patiently out there tickling singles when he could and waiting patiently for the loose ball, then punishing it. That's the way it is done.
    Posted: 30 Jul 2015 09:04
      djf01 Chief Commissioner

    This one's not over yet.
    Valvegear

    I agree, but we're a very long way behind - a good 7 wickets.

    I thought the Aussies bowled really poorly, too short too often, and into Cook's pads too often.  I think it's telling that 2 of the 3 wickets fell to Lyon in seam friendly conditions.  I think the big difference is the English bowlers had the ball moving both ways, but the Aussies swung it one way for a whole over, or not at all.

    I also thought Johnson was pretty ordinary today too.  I don't know what he was trying to do, but I think those conditions - and the English batting lineup- he should have been bowling flat out.  The pitch had pace and bounce, and enough sideways movement to cause any batter problems against serious speed.  As it was I think he tried to bowl a bit within himself to "let the pitch do the work" - or in modern parlance "get the ball in the right areas" and was neither hostile nor containing.

    I must say, when I saw P Nevill walk out to bat, I was thinking what we *really* needed was Brad Haddin ... someone who could play a few shots and get the ball wet.

    I was also pretty disappointed with M Marsh too.  A terrible get-out shot.  He wasn't quick enough to threaten the English batting, fair enough.  But he didn't swing the ball, and bowled too loosely.  I was hoping Marsh might be able to hit the seam and deck the ball about a bit at a reasonable (if not express) pace, but he didn't.  Again I was thinking while Watson wouldn't exactly be our saviour, he'd have made better use of the conditions than Marsh.  The only thing Marsh did better than Watson would have/could have done was not waste a review when he got out for 0.

    I must say I'm very disappointed with the result and the performance from last night, but I'm not entirely surprised.  The Aussie middle order is too fragile against the moving ball, and the English attack really good at exploiting bowler friendly conditions when they pull their fingers out.  We really need Smith at 4 and Clarke at 5 IMHO.
    Posted: 30 Jul 2015 10:07
      Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Richmond Vic
    Well, the Australians had the chance, and blew it.

    To have England at 182 for 6 and then allow them to get another 95 was just plain bad cricket. Broad and Ali were served up far too much rubbish by Starc, Hazelwood and Johnson who all went for more than 4 runs and over. I can visualize Glenn McGrath shaking his head in disbelief at the lack of discipline from the Australia pacemen, all of whom seem to have signed the Forget Line and Length Treaty. The aim must be to starve these batsmen by denying them runs, and forcing them to play every delivery, but the inaccuracy was terrible and let them score relatively easily. They just waited for bad balls, of which there were plenty, and hit them.

    Then there's the batting. Rogers failed in the second innings and can be forgiven; Warner made runs, and rest reads like something out of a science fiction horror story. The middle order scores make depressing reading:- Smith 7 & 8; Clarke 10 & 3; Voges 16 & 0; Marsh 0 & 6 . . . a grand total of 50 runs at the magnificent average of 6.25. Footwork? - Lack of.  Patience? - What's that?

    Now all we need is a 200-run miracle from the lower order, and disciplined bowling to follow.
    I gave up fairy stories years ago; I think I'll just do a rain dance.
    Posted: 31 Jul 2015 04:11
      bevans Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Well, the Australians had the chance, and blew it.



    Then there's the batting. Rogers failed in the second innings and can be forgiven; Warner made runs, and rest reads like something out of a science fiction horror story. The middle order scores make depressing reading:- Smith 7 & 8; Clarke 10 & 3; Voges 16 & 0; Marsh 0 & 6 . . . a grand total of 50 runs at the magnificent average of 6.25. Footwork? - Lack of.  Patience? - What's that?
    Valvegear

    Rogers can certainly be forgiven.  He has already made a good series contribution.

    I believe Clarke is done.  Voges is under performing.  Marsh stage fright?

    If patience is a problem then it will only get worse as the pressure builds.

    A little early to speculate but this could be Clarke's last hoorah.
    Posted: 31 Jul 2015 06:45
      djf01 Chief Commissioner

    Rogers can certainly be forgiven.  He has already made a good series contribution.

    I believe Clarke is done.  Voges is under performing.  Marsh stage fright?

    If patience is a problem then it will only get worse as the pressure builds.

    A little early to speculate but this could be Clarke's last hoorah.
    bevans

    Firstly, credit where it's due: England have bowled really well.  They've had the best bowling attack in the series so far, and have demonstrated that in different conditions.

    Australia - Lyon aside - bowled really poorly.  Worse in this game than in Cardiff.  Starc & Hazelwood in particular.  I'm inclined to cut Starc a bit of slack - he's struggle to control the swing he's getting.  The ball in banannaering (how's that for a word) out of his hand most times, but sometimes not.  Hazelwood has been too short too often.  Marsh has been a bit hot and cold, sometimes doing what is required of his role, other times not.  

    As for Clarke, as they say: form is temporary, class is permanent.  He's a classy player right out of form.  He needs time in the middle.  Not too many chances left, but if he gets it then I think Australia can win the Ashes - or at perhaps at best retain them 2-2.
    Posted: 31 Jul 2015 16:12
      djf01 Chief Commissioner

    OK, just 90 min till play starts in the 4th test.

    It's shaping up to be the most exciting game of the series IMHO.  Without Anderson I think the teams are now much more evenly matched.  A greenish pitch is forecast, hopefully as quick or quicker than the one Birmingham.  It probably means tight bowling will be rewarded (eventually).

    You'll all hate me for saying this, but my selection suggestion is Watson for Voges - with strict instructions not to use any decision reviews!  It'll probably be Watson's last test, so Clarke can bowl him till he breaks.  We needed some accurate seam up bowling in the last game, land it on a length and deck it around without trying to kill the batters every ball.  If nothing else this makes the team younger!  And with Watson in the team we won't need Marsh's bowling, so we can go with Marsh boy best with the stick.

    Believe it or not, Watson has scored more runs in the series than Marsh, and at twice Voges' average.
    Posted: 06 Aug 2015 18:47
      TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

    Location: Ankh Morpork
    What worries me is the lack of any comments like: 'We have learned valuable lessons from the last 3 tests and adjusted our training accordingly".

    BTW, looks like Voges is being given another chance.
    Posted: 06 Aug 2015 19:03
      greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

    Location: MacDonald Park, SA
    Sadly we're all out for a pitiful 60 before Lunch on Day ONE (Broad with 8/15) after losing the toss & being sent in to bat. Bad toss to lose but would it have made a difference if we bowled first? Probably not.
    Posted: 06 Aug 2015 22:36
      Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: In exile
    And the extras top scored on 14! England have managed 30 for no loss in reply. Australia are officially useless at cricket (in England)! Mr. Green
    Posted: 06 Aug 2015 23:20
      CraigW Assistant Commissioner

    And the extras top scored on 14! England have managed 30 for no loss in reply. Australia are officially useless at cricket (in England)! Mr. Green
    Graham4405
    Could the site admin please copy and paste the comments above from the previous test?

    I would save anybody the effort of repeating themselves.

    Craig w
    Posted: 07 Aug 2015 05:55
      djf01 Chief Commissioner

    Well, what a disappointing result.  Australia's top 6 all out in the first half hour, and the game effectively decided before drinks on the first morning.

    The pitch settled down after the first 10 overs.  But 4 of the top 6 were out to balls which moved both ways at the same time, and the damage was done.  Only Clarke played a poor shot (and batted poorly in general).  The ball that got Neville looked like he'd missed a straight one live to me, but on replay it swung out about a foot - which he'd covered - then seamed back almost as much.

    But the other thing I found incredible was no-one played and missed.  When the ball is seaming around that much it's usually too difficult to get the bat on every ball.  There are typically lots of plays and misses, lots of edges over, past and through the slips.  But every ball that seamed hit the edge, and every edge went to hand bar Clarke's french cut.  The first Aussie batter to play and miss was Johnson.
    Posted: 07 Aug 2015 07:32
      TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

    Location: Ankh Morpork
    My message to the Australian team would be: 'Don't come home, stay there and ask the poms nicely to teach you how to play cricket.'
    Posted: 07 Aug 2015 10:54
      TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

    Location: Ankh Morpork
    Actually, if yesterday's performance was a prizefight, they would be asked who paid them to throw it!
    Posted: 07 Aug 2015 15:45
      greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

    Location: MacDonald Park, SA
    Ashes officially lost, an innings defeat within 2 days & 40 minutes.

    Worst. Ashes Series. EVER
    Posted: 08 Aug 2015 20:57
      Donald Chief Commissioner

    Location: Donald. Duck country.
    And Clarke walks after the next test.
    Posted: 09 Aug 2015 01:25
      Donald Chief Commissioner

    Location: Donald. Duck country.
    A suggestion.   How about Cricket Australia leave Hazelwood, Cummins, Mitch Marsh in England after the Ashes to learn the art of swinging the ball?   And a few batsmen to learn how to play the swinging ball?   That is the difference between the two sides.   One can swing the ball and play the moving ball and the other can't.
    Posted: 09 Aug 2015 11:10
      TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

    Location: Ankh Morpork
    Interesting discussion going on over on Railpage's poor relation, RMWeb. Much gloating and slanging of Australia, but I note they did not even have a thread on the 2014 Ashes series when they lost every test in the series. Not a mention of when Swann threw his dummy, packed up his toys and went home. Very selective memory.
    Posted: 09 Aug 2015 11:12
      Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

    Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
    Point of Order:

    Railpage and RMweb cater, in theory at least, for different markets.  RP is Australia/NZ-based and is aimed at the real thing; RMW (a commercial site within the Warner Group) is UK-based and aimed at railway modelling.  Relations?  Yeah - very distant ones perhaps.

    To business:

    I usually remains diplomatically neutral when it comes to Australia vs. The Old Country in any major event.  My natural loyalties remain with my country of birth and that where I spent 43 of my 58 years.  My self-preservation instinct pays lip service to the fact that on many occasions the Aussies are the better sportsmen/women.

    Not so the 2015 Ashes series.  The origin if the urn came about when Australia trounced England and the "ashes of English cricket" were placed in that tiny vessel.  How is the boot now on the other foot???
    All out for 60 (of which 14 were extras) isn't a test score - it's a rout of the first order.  There were probably fewer ducks on the nearby River Trent than at the Bridge ground.  Only two of Australia's batsmen even reached double figures when at least two might be expected to have reached triple figures.

    The dead rubber remains.  Will it be an exhibition or another embarrassing whitewash?  I don't much care.  The urn - which never leaves England anyway - is ceremonially restored to its rightful and well-earned position.
    Posted: 09 Aug 2015 11:31

    Last edited by Gwiwer on 09 Aug 2015 11:37; edited 1 time in total
      TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

    Location: Ankh Morpork
    Railpage and RMweb cater, in theory at least, for different markets.  RP is Australia/NZ-based and is aimed at the real thing; RMW (a commercial site within the Warner Group) is UK-based and aimed at railway modelling.  Relations?  Yeah - very distant ones perhaps.

    To business:

    I usually remains diplomatically neutral when it comes to Australia vs. The Old Country in any major event.  My natural loyalties remain with my country of birth and that where I spent 43 of my 58 years.  My self-preservation instinct pays lip service to the fact that on many occasions the Aussies are the better sportsmen/women.

    Not so the 2015 Ashes series.  The origin if the urn came about when Australia trounced England and the "ashes of English cricket" were placed in that tiny vessel.  How is the boot now on the other foot???
    All out for 60 (of which 14 were extras) isn't a test score - it's a rout of the first order.  There were probably fewer ducks on the nearby River Trent than at the Bridge ground.  Only two of Australia's batsmen even reached double figures when at least two might be expected to have reached triple figures.

    The dead rubber remains.  Will it be an exhibition or another embarrassing whitewash?  I don't much care.  The urn - which never leaves England anyway - is ceremonially restored to its rightful and well-earned position.
    Gwiwer
    Semantics Rick, RMWeb is the closest thing England has got to Railpage, period. Except it is a dictatorship, not a forum. And the largest number of topics on Railpage is in the modelling forum.

    To Business: "Tourists fail to deal with local conditions, lose series" There is a headline that can be applied to almost any country, India during the last summer, England during the last Ashes series.

    Yet the gloating that is going on in their forum is really pathetic, when you compare the same thread on Railpage when the English lost every test in the series. The hatred being poured on the Australian cricket team by the British 'Press' and the users on RMWeb is quite disturbing, particlarly Boycott. Are you not embarrassed about that man? I certainly would be.
    Posted: 09 Aug 2015 12:36

    Last edited by TheBlacksmith on 09 Aug 2015 13:29; edited 2 times in total

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