Malcolm Turncoat's imploding act

 
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

John Howard
(CV: worst treasurer other than Joe Hockey. Any assessment of Malcolm Fraser needs to take account of this.)
Voted in: Interest rates 7% and falling.
Governed during the summer of the GST. (No mention above of Iraq.)
Voted out (despite majority in Senate): Interest rates 7% and rising. Only 2nd PM to lose seat at election. Couldn't cut it with the GFC approaching and couldn't let go.

Sponsored advertisement

  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Justice Minister Michael Keenan revealed by Fairfax as being the latest possible dual citizen (The Age):

Despite two days of questioning by Fairfax Media, Mr Keenan's office refused to say whether he had done so, only repeating the line he was a "Australian citizen and does not hold citizenship of any other country".

But UK consultancy firm and immigration experts Sable International believe that under UK law, the Western Australian MP is a UK citizen by descent.

The situation isn't as dire as Barnaby Joyces' surprise Kiwi citizenship but nevertheless... how could so many people be unsure of their possible dual citizenship through lineage? And how many others are there?
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
We obviously have a few Pollies who
- Didn't genuinely know or think they would be having never even been to that country
- Didn't give a crap of the rules and happy to blame their mother
- Caught out be changes in a foreign countries change in citizenship laws. ...
RTT_Rules
and taking hypocrisy to a new low.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
John Howard
(CV: worst treasurer other than Joe Hockey. Any assessment of Malcolm Fraser needs to take account of this.)
Voted in: Interest rates 7% and falling.
Governed during the summer of the GST. (No mention above of Iraq.)
Voted out (despite majority in Senate): Interest rates 7% and rising. Only 2nd PM to lose seat at election. Couldn't cut it with the GFC approaching and couldn't let go.
kitchgp
Wasn't treasury when he was PM. As history has shown, a number of Treasurer are hopeless PM's and vice versa.

JH voted in 2-3 years after a recession, interest rates falling as they were trying to boost the economy.

JH voted out when the country was riding the biggest economic boom in 40 years, no the mining boom was because of JH and LNP. Interest rates rising as a consequence of the RBA trying to stem inflation. The phrase, GFC wasn't even coined and only a handfull of people were predicted it when JH left the Lodge, so irrelevant.

"Couldn't let go", at least you were correct on one thing.  

Voted out following a major change in his seat boundaries with a high profile ALP candidate but yes he was on the nose.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Justice Minister Michael Keenan revealed by Fairfax as being the latest possible dual citizen (The Age):

Despite two days of questioning by Fairfax Media, Mr Keenan's office refused to say whether he had done so, only repeating the line he was a "Australian citizen and does not hold citizenship of any other country".

But UK consultancy firm and immigration experts Sable International believe that under UK law, the Western Australian MP is a UK citizen by descent.

The situation isn't as dire as Barnaby Joyces' surprise Kiwi citizenship but nevertheless... how could so many people be unsure of their possible dual citizenship through lineage? And how many others are there?
don_dunstan
Just goes to show, who much was this issue basically ignored for decades?

The current mob are just the ones caught out. Lets go back through the records of past MP's and justices.

And lets fix the problem rather than play politics over the few actually caught.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Barnaby Joyce is full of it - here he is only a month ago on Radio National telling everyone that there's no way you can let anyone with dual nationality serve in parliament under any circumstances:

It’s quite clear under Section 44, you can’t be a member of parliament and have dual citizenship. It’s black and white. The outcome is black and white. That’s just, that’s just the way it is... Ignorance is not an excuse, you’re in strife and as I said, there’s nothing malicious about it, being sneaky, but they were outside what Section 44 explicitly says. The reason it says that, is that you can only have one master, Australia. If you’re going to serve in the Australian parliament, Australia is your master.

NOW just under a month later we have Barnaby singing a completely different tune on his Facebook page:

From Tamworth to Tenterfield, my office has been inundated with emails, phone calls and people just dropping by to offer their support.
So to the people of New England, a big heartfelt thank you.
You're the reason I'm so committed to driving projects like the Dungowan Dam, the Bolivia Hill realignment, and decentralising agencies like the APVMA to Armidale.

You're a dual national, Barnaby, you have to leave parliament for exactly the reasons you said applied to those Greens senators. Unless you are a hypocrite whose words don't mean anything?
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Fix the problem? There is no problem. Other than the fact these dolts, any and all them cannot follow the rules.
Any change to the constitution via a referendum is likely to fail, if history is any guide.
Saw Peter Dutton this morning on 9. Basically nothing to see here. I'm convinced that staffers and others are trying to find dirt anywhere possible, on both sides.
And Julie Bishop's performance, the mind boggles.
As for Barnaby, it is black and white. And his response will be black and white. You either apply the same standards to yourself as others who have fallen foul, step down and show some honour, or stick around and be labeled a hypocrite.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Fix the problem? There is no problem. Other than the fact these dolts, any and all them cannot follow the rules.
Any change to the constitution via a referendum is likely to fail, if history is any guide.
michaelgm
This particular referendum would be doomed to go down by a thumping great margin, and not just because of the conservative tendency.

The average man on the street thinks the foreign allegiance rule is a really good idea, and the level of trust in our politicians at the moment is so low that any politician-led attempt to convince the electorate otherwise will only result in an even worse result for their campaign.

It would probably get a yes vote in the ACT, as has happened with a number of pro-bureaucracy referendum questions in the past.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
JH voted out when the country was riding the biggest economic boom in 40 years, no the mining boom was because of JH and LNP.
RTT_Rules
On the flip side it's arguable that they helped to engineer conditions creating our bubble-like credit problems in 2017; much of the mining boom was squandered failing to capture anything for the long term while hobbling our economic diversity - it's a fundamental problem in Australia that too much money is riding in real estate and finance at the expense of everything else. I'd also argue that a lot of the Telstra proceeds were wasted by Howard on re-election slushies like the Federation Fund (spent mostly in Coalition marginals) and he instituted far too much middle class welfare with the stupid $5,000 baby bonus etc.
John Howard (CV: worst treasurer other than Joe Hockey. Any assessment of Malcolm Fraser needs to take account of this.) Voted in: Interest rates 7% and falling. Governed during the summer of the GST. (No mention above of Iraq.) Voted out (despite majority in Senate): Interest rates 7% and rising. Only 2nd PM to lose seat at election. Couldn't cut it with the GFC approaching and couldn't let go.
kitchgp
I'd add to that: Presided as Treasurer over the notorious "Bottom of the harbour" schemes, taking too long to do anything about it because there were too many LNP mates involved. Also engaged in a personal and vindictive feud with Andrew Peacock for much of the 1980's helping to keep them un-electable during that time.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Guys,
The MP's that have been caught out or found out after checking because of others, yes they leave parliament, big deal, yah more money wasted. The Green Senators will be replaced by other Green Senators, in the case of BJ who has already withdrawn his NZ citizenship he will contest the bi-election and be back in before Christmas because his seat is rock solid safe, are we happy and what was really achieved in the process? SFA!!! Just spending more money to achieve zip.

Section 44 is black and white, for Australian law, but the law does not control the laws of another land. Many of us have at least one parent born OS, most have at least one grand parent born OS. Anyone of those countries could change their law at any time respectively making you a citizen of the country, even if you entered parliament as only an Aussie, you could become a Dual during your term.

Stop playing politics, I don't give a crap if its LNP, Green, ALP or other thats been caught out this time. How many in the past would have be technically illegal? Do we really think its down to just few? Do you really think BJ would have mouthed off last month the way he did if he knew his own situation? Listen to a constitutional lawyer on what the problem is really all about and how in the future it could cause significant problems to Australian govt process simply because another country changes its laws, which is likely the case for the Green MP with Canadian citizenship.  

Will it pass a referendum, on the surface no. But it depends on the question, the desired outcome and if it has bi-partisan support. Billy and MT should be working on this together to ready a solid case.
  apw5910 Chief Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Nobody would care if it wasn't a one seat majority.
  allan Chief Commissioner

Nobody would care if it wasn't a one seat majority.
apw5910
Truth is, nobody much cares anyway. The major interest is in watching the pollies squirm!
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

So if Barnaby is rubbed out, and triggers a by-election and wants to recontest then he or the Libs should met costs.
Called accountability.
Same should apply to anyone else, seeking to do same.
You know the rules, get your act together.
These people are supposed  to be running the country, and yet cannot ensure their eligibility to hold office.
Future candidates should be referred to the AG or the AEC before the next election.
And yes, fantastic to watch them squirm.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Meanwhile, Pauline Hanson pulls off a stunt in the Senate that'll be remembered for a long time.  Possibly not a wise move, but she certainly grabs attention:
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Shove over Senator Hinch, another human headline is about.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Shocking by Ms Hanson, talk about being insulting to those that choose to wear the burqa Evil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad

Kind Regards
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
JH voted out when the country was riding the biggest economic boom in 40 years, no the mining boom was because of JH and LNP.
On the flip side it's arguable that they helped to engineer conditions creating our bubble-like credit problems in 2017; much of the mining boom was squandered failing to capture anything for the long term while hobbling our economic diversity - it's a fundamental problem in Australia that too much money is riding in real estate and finance at the expense of everything else. I'd also argue that a lot of the Telstra proceeds were wasted by Howard on re-election slushies like the Federation Fund (spent mostly in Coalition marginals) and he instituted far too much middle class welfare with the stupid $5,000 baby bonus etc.
John Howard (CV: worst treasurer other than Joe Hockey. Any assessment of Malcolm Fraser needs to take account of this.) Voted in: Interest rates 7% and falling. Governed during the summer of the GST. (No mention above of Iraq.) Voted out (despite majority in Senate): Interest rates 7% and rising. Only 2nd PM to lose seat at election. Couldn't cut it with the GFC approaching and couldn't let go.
I'd add to that: Presided as Treasurer over the notorious "Bottom of the harbour" schemes, taking too long to do anything about it because there were too many LNP mates involved. Also engaged in a personal and vindictive feud with Andrew Peacock for much of the 1980's helping to keep them un-electable during that time.
don_dunstan
No, I don't think the Howard govt "helped engineer the current bubble", the housing bubble had not started then and there was no prediction it would.

The Howard govt actually banked some of the mining boom in the Future Fund and had they remained in power would have continued to do so. What they did do which I didn't agree with then and now is cut income tax based in boom based revenues. There was some scope to cut with the govts debt basically being repaid and the need to fund repayments having ceased, but cutting your income during a boom means you need to put it back during the down turn and in the last 10 years no side has been game to do.

Look below the baby bonus program in detail. Talk to population consulates and your answer is there. At the time we didn't get and I said WTF is this for, but the reason was sound but execution was flawed.

No one was going to kick Hawke out of office during mid to late 80's and probably didn't deserve to go either.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Shocking by Ms Hanson, talk about being insulting to those that choose to wear the burqa Evil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad

Kind Regards
lsrailfan
She was making a point that nobody tried to check if it was her on the way into the senate - I think it's a valid point that the security guards were too frightened to ask her to verify her identity by showing her face, it could have been anyone under there. Are we really that frightened of people's cultural sensitivities that we won't ask them to unveil even when they have to verify their identities?

And I also happen to agree with her point that it is un-Australian to cover your face in public. Usually in western culture when people obscure their faces its because they have something to hide. We shouldn't be expected to accommodate all religious and cultural phenomenon in Australia - just the same as I wouldn't go to Saudi Arabia and ask for a Bloody Mary and a bacon sandwich for breakfast.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
No, I don't think the Howard govt "helped engineer the current bubble", the housing bubble had not started then and there was no prediction it would.
RTT_Rules
But you're someone who also believes that the banks have zero liability in inflating the asset bubble too... so I won't bother trying to argue that point with you.
The Howard govt actually banked some of the mining boom in the Future Fund and had they remained in power would have continued to do so. What they did do which I didn't agree with then and now is cut income tax based in boom based revenues. There was some scope to cut with the govts debt basically being repaid and the need to fund repayments having ceased, but cutting your income during a boom means you need to put it back during the down turn and in the last 10 years no side has been game to do.
RTT_Rules
The Future Fund: For pollies/SES and nobody else. Hardly a sovereign wealth fund - actually an entitlements scheme for politicians and senior executive service members. And Howard spent like a drunken sailor in the last few years trying to buy the 2007 election - have a look at all the stupid programs and giveaways that he implemented - hardly the model of fiscal responsibility.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
RTT said
  " no the mining boom was because of JH and LNP."


Have I read this right, are you claiming that John Howard and the LNP somehow engineered the once in a life time mining boom?
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Fiona Nash is now in the Wars, she has apparently told the Senate a short time ago, she is a British Citizen, this is just crazy stuff!! , on another note, Parliament will now rise for 2 weeks, when they return, I understand the ALP are going to put forward that there be no more votes until they can sort this mess out, that would mean they would have to suspend the Parliament!! I would think surely a good move, until they can sort this farce out!!

Kind Regards
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
How long before those with the money start challenging as invalid laws that they don't like that have been passed by this mob since 1901....................?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
How long before those with the money start challenging as invalid laws that they don't like that have been passed by this mob since 1901....................?
YM-Mundrabilla
They're giving their own total incompetence in being able to do anything as a reason to dismiss them and/or bypass them altogether. Malcolm doesn't have a functioning government any longer and yet there's no hint that the GG will interfere with the situation - maybe a reason why we should consider keeping the system as it is. Can we be so sure that an elected/appointed President won't start throwing their weight around in a situation like this current crisis?

Meanwhile NXT has also suffered a blow with a South Australian MLC quitting, citing Nick Xenophon's 'dictatorship' as a factor in his leaving the party.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
RTT said
  " no the mining boom was because of JH and LNP."


Have I read this right, are you claiming that John Howard and the LNP somehow engineered the once in a life time mining boom?
wobert
RTT... no doubt at all Wink

LNP can only 'manage' an economy that's managing itself i.e. the world buys what we have. That's why the last budget was all about the deficit being 'fixed' by the global recovery i.e. watch this space.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Shocking by Ms Hanson, talk about being insulting to those that choose to wear the burqa Evil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad

Kind Regards
lsrailfan
The Senator for Islamophobia (formerly Senator for Asiaphobia) got deservingly slapped down by Brandis. She managed to bring both sides together in what will go down historically as a high point (in contrast to Thump's defence of the indefensible).
I don't know what she's worried about. No radical Muslim would touch her... she's their best recruiter in this country. Razz

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.