Malcolm Turncoat's imploding act

 
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
It is completely ridiculous that other countries can somehow claim Australian citizens, especially those Australian born, as their own by changing one (or more) of their laws without notifying them of the change.
Graham4405
Which is what the High Court have said in the past, and why these members will be found valid and allowed to stay.

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  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Senator Canavan (or a person 'authorised' to act on his behalf) claimed Italy; Italy didn't claim him.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
...You gotta admire someone with that kind of resilience and conviction even if you don't agree with her.
don_dunstan
She found one job where you don't need any qualifications yet pays better than many professions. That's it Razz
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
...You gotta admire someone with that kind of resilience and conviction even if you don't agree with her.
She found one job where you don't need any qualifications yet pays better than many professions. That's it Razz
Groundrelay
The oldest profession?
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
On a par with Bronnie and Jules eeeeyyyyyyyuuck
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
It is completely ridiculous that other countries can somehow claim Australian citizens, especially those Australian born, as their own by changing one (or more) of their laws without notifying them of the change.
Which is what the High Court have said in the past, and why these members will be found valid and allowed to stay.
Aaron
Yep, where a country automatically claims citizenship on an Australian and you were not born there and potentially have not traveled there as an adult and have made no use or benefit of that citizenship is not the intent of section 44 from my reading.

Remember section 44 was written long before the internet and ease of travel and hence few MP's would have known or checked and if they did this process would likely take months if not years.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
...You gotta admire someone with that kind of resilience and conviction even if you don't agree with her.
She found one job where you don't need any qualifications yet pays better than many professions. That's it Razz
The oldest profession?
wobert
Like most professions, the "oldest profession" financial reward is linked to the hours you do and your performance and which end of town you ply your trade. Unfortunately politics doesn't have the same reward system as even the selection process is often biased.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Malcolm's Newspoll numbers are terrible today (yet again) and this time his personal approval rating as Prime Minister has fallen too (Sky News). The LNP has fallen on a two-party preferred basis to 46/54 and we are almost two-thirds of the way to the same number of Newspolls that Tones lost before Malcolm declared "enough" and convinced the parliamentary party to dump him.

Apparently if an election were to be held with these current numbers the LNP would lose twenty seats; I'm sure there's a lot of MP's who are desperate not to become seat-less but what would you do if you were them? Would it make any difference to the final outcome if they had a different leader or would it potentially make it even worse?
  jibbonpoint Chief Commissioner

Location: Shoalhaven
I think that these figures are meaningless. If an election was held tomorrow the outcome would not be represented by these figures. I don't know what the outcome would be but it doesn't make sense that the Party most unpopular has, at its head, the most popular leader by a pretty fair margin. Neither Tony Abbott nor his Party was poling well at the time of the change.

Lots & lots of Labor voters want Malcolm to be the PM???

If you want to make sense of this poll maybe this would work:-

If Labor wanted to win, they should can Shorten & go for Albenese.

What Malcolm should do is stay there & get rid of the rest of his party and appoint another lot.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Malcolm's Newspoll numbers are terrible today (yet again) and this time his personal approval rating as Prime Minister has fallen too (Sky News). The LNP has fallen on a two-party preferred basis to 46/54 and we are almost two-thirds of the way to the same number of Newspolls that Tones lost before Malcolm declared "enough" and convinced the parliamentary party to dump him.

Apparently if an election were to be held with these current numbers the LNP would lose twenty seats; I'm sure there's a lot of MP's who are desperate not to become seat-less but what would you do if you were them? Would it make any difference to the final outcome if they had a different leader or would it potentially make it even worse?
don_dunstan
They have I think just on 2 years to the next election, they could dump MT and clean the front bench and maybe claw it back, but it needs to happen soon, if not the inevitable will just eat away at the moral of the govt members, some more than others and further drag down their performance. At least a new team would bring a breath of fresh air and hope for a short while at least.

As far as Polling results go, while in this case I don't doubt them that the LNP has a problem, there has been a growing list of polling clusters that have gone very very wrong in recent years and hence I think less people pay much attention to the predicted outcome.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
I actually don't think the polls will change at all, until we get a new leader.

Kind Regards
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Turnbull really is a selfish human being, he is destined to stay there, and lead his party to oblivion, I have been following politics for a long time, I have not seen a more selfish man in my entire life!!

Kind Regards
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Senator Canavan (or a person 'authorised' to act on his behalf) claimed Italy; Italy didn't claim him.
kitchgp
Either his mother fraudulently copied his signature or he is lying - one or the other. I think in his case it's likely he'll be found to have actively taken out dual citizenship and his election will be found to be invalid.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I actually don't think the polls will change at all, until we get a new leader.

Kind Regards
lsrailfan
I think they will continue to get worse - and it probably won't turn the situation around much if they get a new leader anyway. Parliament's standing in the community is in the toilet - nobody is in charge and the public knows it. Thank God big business is actually running the place; politicians certainly aren't up to the task.

Incidentally if anyone is interested here's an excellent article from the Epoch Times about Canadian clinical psychologist and university professor Jordan Peterson, who has gained a lot of notoriety in recent years for his views about political correctness and the encroaching "Marxism" in institutions:

The postmodern philosophy “came into vogue” in the 1970s, according to Jordan Peterson “after classic Marxism, especially of the economic type, had been so thoroughly discredited that no one but an absolute reprobate could support it publicly.”

Dr Peterson said it’s not possible to understand our current society without considering the role postmodernism plays within it, “because postmodernism, in many ways—especially as it’s played out politically—is the new skin that the old Marxism now inhabits.”

Not sure why a clinical psychologist feels that they've captured the totalitarian communist essence of the "politically correct police" kind of thing but it's easy to see where Mark Latham got the idea that "cultural Marxism" was infecting our institutions.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Senator Canavan (or a person 'authorised' to act on his behalf) claimed Italy; Italy didn't claim him.
kitchgp

Either his mother fraudulently copied his signature or he is lying - one or the other. I think in his case it's likely he'll be found to have actively taken out dual citizenship and his election will be found to be invalid.
don_dunstan

Italy's Parliament has elected representatives from overseas electorates. Australia, Africa, Oceania and Antarctica is one of them. From the point of view of the Australian Constitution, if it weren't for Section 44 it would be possible for Senator Canavan to be a member of both the Australian and Italian Parliaments, even Prime Minister, whilst domiciled here. It would be of interest to know if Senator Canavan has ever voted in the Italian elections.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-04-09/australians-in-running-for-italian-parliament/2397626
PS: I'm not sure if either of these two is still in the Italian Parliament, or who the current representatives are. From his web page it appears Marco Fedi still is.

The possibility of dual-citizenship, and its ramifications, eg national service and tax liabilities, should be considered by everyone, particularly if you are travelling overseas. Boris Johnson is a well-documented case:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/08/boris-johnson-renounces-us-citizenship-record-2016-uk-foreign-secretary
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

A woman I know who is a professional athlete acquired dual citizenship for the purpose of making it easy to live in and travel around Europe where the bulk of her events take place.

Fortunately for her, the process was quite easy as the Brits practically throw passports at anyone who is a bit sporty. Unfortunately, that also means that she will land back at square one in the event of a Hard Brexit.

On that subject of athletes changing nationality, the Australian track cyclist Shane Perkins was granted his Russian citizenship by Vladimir Putin this week as part of his plan to try and get into the 2020 Olympics despite being too slow to make the Australian team these days. He's actually quite thick, so maybe it's not such a bad thing that he's out of the running for the Parliament here.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Italy's Parliament has elected representatives from overseas electorates. Australia, Africa, Oceania and Antarctica is one of them. From the point of view of the Australian Constitution, if it weren't for Section 44 it would be possible for Senator Canavan to be a member of both the Australian and Italian Parliaments, even Prime Minister, whilst domiciled here. It would be of interest to know if Senator Canavan has ever voted in the Italian elections.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-04-09/australians-in-running-for-italian-parliament/2397626
PS: I'm not sure if either of these two is still in the Italian Parliament, or who the current representatives are. From his web page it appears Marco Fedi still is.
kitchgp
The current 'rest of the world' (Africa + Asia + Oceania + Antarctica) Deputy is still Marco Fedi, and the current 'rest of the world' Senator is Francesco Giacobbe from Sydney.

Both are members of the Partito Democratico which is the largest party in the current ruling coalition.

Interestingly, the combined vote of the expatriate constituencies (note - not all of them are 'overseas' for Italy) in the defeated referendum which included eliminating the expatriate constituencies was a 65% 'yes' vote!

In recognition of our close ties with the Kiwis, perhaps our House of Representatives could have a Member for New Zealand? It would only require changing three letters of the name of one particular seat whose incumbent MP would be eligible for the revised title.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Bob Katter has told The Australian that he will not support Malcolm Turnbull any longer but he may vote for a reconstituted Liberal/National leadership with Tony Abbott at the helm:

“I listen to both sides of the parliament­ and, in this case, particularly the Liberals. I like Tony and I think he has the right inclinations but he has got to deliver.”

Meanwhile Malcolm was at Tumut NSW yesterday to hold Anthony Pratt's hand as he announced hundreds of millions to be spent on a Visy plant there (News.com.au):

But there was one question he would not go near - just why was he in town?
"There's no federal funding in this announcement today, so what are you doing here? Is this to assure voters that you're not distracted?" he was asked by a reporter.
"Thanks for the editorial," Mr Turnbull fired back. "Do you have any other questions?"

No-one is listening to Malcolm any more, are they.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
I actually think Tony could come back, and help reunite a shattered Liberal Party, if he came back, and showed the same fire like he did when he was opposition leader, Billy boy would be cannon fodder in my books, Julie Bishop has done her dash, by claiming that she wold "find it hard to work with a Labour Govt in NZ", so really we are down to 2 contenders, Dutton, or Abbott

Kind Regards
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The High Court hearing regarding the Section 44 crowd will be heard on October 10, 11 and 12 - and Barnaby Joyce's arch nemesis Tony Windsor will be part of the challenge (ABC).

I still think Barnaby is a complete hypocrite for not resigning after that moving little speech he gave on the ABC after the Greens first got caught up in the S44 trap... then again what do the LNP stand for but blatant self-interest and cushy lobbying jobs for themselves after politics? No wonder Malcolm can't cut through his "message" - he has absolutely nothing to say that we haven't already heard before. By all means bring back Tones if it will mean an end to the current situation...
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
...Julie Bishop has done her dash, by claiming that she wold "find it hard to work with a Labour Govt in NZ"...
lsrailfan
Once heralded as a future Liberal Prime Minister but I think she's a bit too reactionary or something. Then again who knows... being in that leadership position seems to completely change people's personalities once they're in the job anyway.

I'm surprised that the LNP have so perfectly replicated the conditions that gave Tony 15 seats in 2013; despite Tony telling us that they're not the Labor Party they seem to be alike in nearly every way.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
......

Fortunately for her, the process was quite easy as the Brits practically throw passports at anyone who is a bit sporty. Unfortunately, that also means that she will land back at square one in the event of a Hard Brexit.

........
justapassenger

Hilarious - on a per capita basis Australia would be way a head in its largesse on sporting citizenships.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
Shaun Micallef's MAD AS HELL Series 7 Ep 10

http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/shaun-micallefs-mad-as-hell/LE1614V010S00
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Former Liberal leader John Hewson sums up Turnbull's complete lack of control over the government nicely (Fairfax):

A principal weakness of the Turnbull government is its mismanagement of issues. As issues break, it doesn't seem to have any political, policy or communications strategies to handle them effectively. It is mostly reactive, rather than proactive, ultimately forced to run a high-risk position according to someone else's agenda.

Its initial responses are often ill-considered, and its actions from the hip. More often than not it soon loses control of the issue, remaining stuck pretty much at the mercy of its own incompetence as events further unfold.

I think in part you could blame the conservative rump in the party for their inability to manage issues but ultimately you get the feeling that nobody is in charge.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Former Liberal leader John Hewson sums up Turnbull's complete lack of control over the government nicely (Fairfax):

A principal weakness of the Turnbull government is its mismanagement of issues. As issues break, it doesn't seem to have any political, policy or communications strategies to handle them effectively. It is mostly reactive, rather than proactive, ultimately forced to run a high-risk position according to someone else's agenda.

Its initial responses are often ill-considered, and its actions from the hip. More often than not it soon loses control of the issue, remaining stuck pretty much at the mercy of its own incompetence as events further unfold.

I think in part you could blame the conservative rump in the party for their inability to manage issues but ultimately you get the feeling that nobody is in charge.
don_dunstan
I have tended to get the feeling that it seems too many people are trying to be in charge.
It's almost like the party has to run to a mysterious someone to get approval to just this way or that way
In Hewson's words "It is mostly reactive, rather than proactive, ultimately forced to run a high-risk position according to someone else's agenda."

So just who is this mysterious person?

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