Should they reopen Paisley station?

 
  bomberswarm2 Locomotive Driver

I was just looking at a map, noticed that Paisley isn't too far past the exit to the Altona loop. With the government planning to grade separate the Altona loop's level crossing at Mobile, couldn't they use that money to reopen Paisley, have the loop branch off just west of it, run parallel to Millers Rd until Kororoit Creek Rd, then tunnel/bridge the line over/under Kororoit Creek Rd and Millers Rd, coming out just south west of the oil storage tankers, then cut across that grassland and rejoin the old line at the current pedestrian crossing? Here's a map. Full size: http://oi68.tinypic.com/54asch.jpg


The black is the current line. The line could either tunnel along the green line (dashes = tunnel) or flyover the orange line (dashes = elevated). Neither of these are particularly inconceivable. All the land is either unowned grassland or council owned grassland, it wouldn't add more than 2 minutes to a trip (plus one extra stop). Of course I'd suggest they simply put in two level crossings as the line only gets 6 trains an hour in peak, but the government clearly won't do this, as indicated by already pointlessly wasting money on this crossing which doesn't need to be removed at all.
What do you think? Conceivable?

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  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Only if you closed the Altona Loop would this be viable as its location would make it a good alternative.
  tom9876543 Train Controller

Option A: Build bridge over Kororiot Creek Rd at existing line

Option B: Build bridge/tunnel over/under Kororiot Creek Rd + extra track construction + extra infrastructure construction

What do you think the government will choose? Lets give you a hint.... the cheaper one.

Not only is Option B more expensive, it will increase travel time for stations on Altona loop. Everyone in that area will be pissed off.

End of discussion.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
As a former resident of that area I feel qualified to comment. Paisley's biggest problem is that it adjoins a residential area only on one side and I'm not sure where the numbers would come from to use it (with or without your railway loop proposal); it closed for a good reason in the eighties - people were not using it. Because of the flooding from the creek and the fumes from the refinery it's unlikely there will be residential development around there any time soon.
  torrens5022 Junior Train Controller

How about re open Paisley then:    
Convert Westona to City into light rail / tram by,  
light rail Westona to Kororoit Rd then to North Williamstown station then to Newport then somehow across the Yarra onto Williamstown Road through Fishermans Bend onto the CBD.  
You would convert both the Williamstown and Altona lines into light rail.  
The route could be extended to Laverton if needed.
  bomberswarm2 Locomotive Driver

As a former resident of that area I feel qualified to comment. Paisley's biggest problem is that it adjoins a residential area only on one side and I'm not sure where the numbers would come from to use it (with or without your railway loop proposal); it closed for a good reason in the eighties - people were not using it. Because of the flooding from the creek and the fumes from the refinery it's unlikely there will be residential development around there any time soon.
don_dunstan

It was closed due to the Altona line being extended to Laverton, because they would have to have Altona loop services and Paisley services both running, both with the same destination (Werribee).
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Paisley was replaced by the extension of a bus from Newport station, which in turn was cancelled several years ago due to lack of users. I just don't see where your potential users will come from.
  bomberswarm2 Locomotive Driver

Paisley was replaced by the extension of a bus from Newport station, which in turn was cancelled several years ago due to lack of users. I just don't see where your potential users will come from.
don_dunstan
I, and I guarantee you, 99% of people won't take buses anywhere. Who wants to change services? Put a train there everybody would use it. There'd have to be a bus running from my door to the train station entrance that would arrive just before a train in the morning and would be waiting at the station exactly when my train arrived, and took a direct, fastest route to my house (which i believe would be financially inefficient) before I would stop driving to the train station in the morning.
  slowcoach Junior Train Controller

Paisley in its heyday was mainly used by workers at the Mobiltown oil refinery, and rarely used by passengers. The bus service outside the former station is for passengers who live close by and can't afford to walk a fair distance from Newport. If Paisley somehow miraculously was given funding and restored to its former glory, only workers and trainspotters would use this station.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Paisley was replaced by the extension of a bus from Newport station, which in turn was cancelled several years ago due to lack of users. I just don't see where your potential users will come from.
don_dunstan
If you closed the Altona loop and provided a good feeder bus service between Altona/Seaholme and Paisley station then that is where users would likely come from.
  bomberswarm2 Locomotive Driver

What do you think the government will choose? Lets give you a hint.... the cheaper one.

Not only is Option B more expensive, it will increase travel time for stations on Altona loop. Everyone in that area will be pissed off.

End of discussion.
tom987

I could open Paisley Station for $100,000, and lay an at ground track with two level crossings for $500,000, or they can put a railway over a road for $20 million.

B's cheaper.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
I could open Paisley Station for $100,000, and lay an at ground track with two level crossings for $500,000, or they can put a railway over a road for $20 million.

B's cheaper.
bomberswarm2
  QSB6.7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Going off the rails on a crazy train.
What do you think the government will choose? Lets give you a hint.... the cheaper one.

Not only is Option B more expensive, it will increase travel time for stations on Altona loop. Everyone in that area will be pissed off.

End of discussion.

I could open Paisley Station for $100,000, and lay an at ground track with two level crossings for $500,000, or they can put a railway over a road for $20 million.

B's cheaper.
bomberswarm2
Can we see your business case?
Those numbers don't stack up.
  bomberswarm2 Locomotive Driver

What do you think the government will choose? Lets give you a hint.... the cheaper one.

Not only is Option B more expensive, it will increase travel time for stations on Altona loop. Everyone in that area will be pissed off.

End of discussion.

I could open Paisley Station for $100,000, and lay an at ground track with two level crossings for $500,000, or they can put a railway over a road for $20 million.

B's cheaper.
Can we see your business case?
Those numbers don't stack up.
QSB6.7

The numbers do stack up. Its from not being a government. It could be done in two weeks with me paying the workers two weeks pay, not 300 weeks like the government does.
  QSB6.7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Going off the rails on a crazy train.
What do you think the government will choose? Lets give you a hint.... the cheaper one.

Not only is Option B more expensive, it will increase travel time for stations on Altona loop. Everyone in that area will be pissed off.

End of discussion.

I could open Paisley Station for $100,000, and lay an at ground track with two level crossings for $500,000, or they can put a railway over a road for $20 million.

B's cheaper.
Can we see your business case?
Those numbers don't stack up.

The numbers do stack up. Its from not being a government. It could be done in two weeks with me paying the workers two weeks pay, not 300 weeks like the government does.
bomberswarm2
You better lie low.  The CFMEU will come looking for you for suggesting such ludicrous drivel.

But seriously, you can build a station (with what is left, it would need a ground up build) in two weeks?
  QSB6.7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Going off the rails on a crazy train.
http://railgallery.wongm.com/el-zorro-grain/E108_4676.jpg.html

Credits to Marcus Wong.
  bomberswarm2 Locomotive Driver

What do you think the government will choose? Lets give you a hint.... the cheaper one.

Not only is Option B more expensive, it will increase travel time for stations on Altona loop. Everyone in that area will be pissed off.

End of discussion.

I could open Paisley Station for $100,000, and lay an at ground track with two level crossings for $500,000, or they can put a railway over a road for $20 million.

B's cheaper.
Can we see your business case?
Those numbers don't stack up.

The numbers do stack up. Its from not being a government. It could be done in two weeks with me paying the workers two weeks pay, not 300 weeks like the government does.
You better lie low.  The CFMEU will come looking for you for suggesting such ludicrous drivel.

But seriously, you can build a station (with what is left, it would need a ground up build) in two weeks?
QSB6.7
Scrape the smeg off the top, lay some concrete over the top (if you want it really cheap, otherwise take an extra week and strip it), dig out and reopen the underpass (which already exists), lay a slab of cement, build a room there. Actually pay people what they should be paid and actually pay what you should for materials, you'll shave 95% off of any project.
  QSB6.7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Going off the rails on a crazy train.
What do you think the government will choose? Lets give you a hint.... the cheaper one.

Not only is Option B more expensive, it will increase travel time for stations on Altona loop. Everyone in that area will be pissed off.

End of discussion.

I could open Paisley Station for $100,000, and lay an at ground track with two level crossings for $500,000, or they can put a railway over a road for $20 million.

B's cheaper.
Can we see your business case?
Those numbers don't stack up.

The numbers do stack up. Its from not being a government. It could be done in two weeks with me paying the workers two weeks pay, not 300 weeks like the government does.
You better lie low.  The CFMEU will come looking for you for suggesting such ludicrous drivel.

But seriously, you can build a station (with what is left, it would need a ground up build) in two weeks?
Scrape the smeg off the top, lay some concrete over the top (if you want it really cheap, otherwise take an extra week and strip it), dig out and reopen the underpass (which already exists), lay a slab of cement, build a room there. Actually pay people what they should be paid and actually pay what you should for materials, you'll shave 95% off of any project.
bomberswarm2
(Knowing that you don't have real costings or any experience in construction projects) I ask you to put some actual costings up.

Was that underpass filled with concrete?  Good luck getting that out in a week.
The room would have to be prefab, pre-wired and dropped in with a crane to meet that deadline.
  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:
You won't be able to open the underpass on the northern side because the standard gauge line was built over the ramp so perhaps you could rebuild the station on the up side of the rail junction.
  QSB6.7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Going off the rails on a crazy train.
http://www.railgeelong.com/location/paisley
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
As a former Newport resident I just don't see that it would get the numbers to make it practicable - it won't attract sufficient passengers make it worthwhile to slow down express Werribee trains to stop there. Sorry, Bomberswarm but there are many other places across Melbourne that have a much more compelling case for having a station near-by - it's just too industrial around there and it's not going to change any time soon.

If you really want to live near a railway station then move closer to Newport.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
If Paisley somehow miraculously was given funding and restored to its former glory, only workers and trainspotters would use this station.
"slowcoach"

So in other words, it would be like every second station between Ringwood and Richmond (except during peak).
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

How about re open Paisley then:    
Convert Westona to City into light rail / tram by,  
light rail Westona to Kororoit Rd then to North Williamstown station then to Newport then somehow across the Yarra onto Williamstown Road through Fishermans Bend onto the CBD.  
You would convert both the Williamstown and Altona lines into light rail.  
The route could be extended to Laverton if needed.
torrens5022
Here's my rely to this smart comment:
No, no, no and No. Never replace Heavy Rail with Light Rail. St KILDA and Port Melbourne could of had a awesome heavy rail network right now. Now we are looking back at it as a mistake. Trams are slower limited capacity and will only make users use a car to the city and pack on a Werribee train at Newport already filled with people. Such a waste of money to reduce capacity and time savings just so it doesn't affect the Werribee line and able to have better relibilty, not worth it. I used to use the Altona line in the past and in 2010 when they introduced shuttle service it was totally crap and full of delays. But when I switched onto the Werribee line it was better and I also catch the Williamstown line. I found out Williamstown line is better than Altona line but is still occasionally riddled with delays. Combination of upgrading signalling and track also future metro 2 will only truly solve most of the problems. Unfortunately it won't happen soon.

To the general Thread
If you want to build a station it's better to leave the altona line and build the brand new station called Newport west near Merton street. There is a paddock on the opposite side. That would be the most suitable location for the area, has room to add an interchange and carparks and can potentially be redeveloped in the future.
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

Altona line is prime for seperation from werribee line post Metro2 with an extention to point cook/ werribee south
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Altona line is prime for seperation from werribee line post Metro2 with an extention to point cook/ werribee south
John.Z
The Altona and the Williamstown line would become the Newport local lines (running via North Melbourne and Footscray)

I don't know how a line to Point Cook / Werribee South would work ? What path would It take ? What would the NIMBY factor be like ?

Point Cook Is a classic example of very poor urban planing, where developer profits ran supreme, what do they say I takes an hour just to get out of the suburb and onto the freeway !
South Morang / Doreen locality In a similar boat.

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