It's the economy, stupid!

 
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I watched the video of it driving onto the stage and the wheel looked fine. I think its something to do with the angle if it has rear independent suspension. Anyway the actual cars they often use in these demo's is often nothing more than a skin on a rolling chassis, somethings not even the actual car with power train.
No, it was sticking out at an angle that suggested it was about to fall off. The fact that it managed to drive up there without falling off is beside the point. And it was the second major thing to go wrong; you don't see Ford or Toyota rolling out cars to the media that have major faults in them like that - the car clearly wasn't ready.
Billionaires investing money into science, its their money. In the mean time there are literally 10,000's of jobs been generated. Yep, obviously they are doing it wrong.
I think you would have loved living on an estate in the feudal times -

EDIT: At least Bill Gates is spending his money on something practical; trying to eliminate the effluent problem in the developing world; that project will ultimately save millions of people from disease and death. Richard Branson in particular is an appalling hypocrite; sending rich people into low-level orbit like its a carnival ride all the while lecturing Australia for selling coal? Stop wasting resources on your fancy projects and I'll listen to you.
Eon Musk is a dangerous neo liberalist who hates public transport. The way he is pushing individual transport has no future in the next 20 or so years where autonomous on demand vehicles will be the go. Tesla is not doing financially all that well and may run out of cash shortly. Musk loves spending other peoples money. Due to our low population what may apply in Europe etc will not immediately apply to our special situation. Cars may still exist here until the overseas car companies stop producing conventional cars and then we will have no choice other than to follow the trends in overseas countries. I detest those stupid bully redneck trucks the morons love. What use are they to the average motorist?
nswtrains
Oh dear NSWtrains, we are nearly at the end of 2019 and you still have time to join us.

1) PT - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop, so no I wouldn't say he hates PT

2) Tesla is one of the leading designers of autonomous transport, you have heard of Tesla Autopilot haven't you?

3) Apart from last week after smashing windows, Tesla share price is on the rise and doing well on the back of its financial position. The  Model Y expected to be a make or break for the company, most market analysts say make.

4) Australia's car market is 95% the same as EU and probably 99% the same as Nth US in requirements. Considering our growing love affair for the likes of Audi and VW, i dare so we are very closely linked.

5) The F-150 style vehicles were previously popular in Australia, Ford Bronco anyone? However they disappeared on the back of the growing dual cab market and rising fuel prices. As the fuel economy of the F-150 class vehicle has improved dramatically in recent years as have the internal fit out standard of the F-150 class and with Australia having #2 highest disposal income in the world, they have been making a come back for sometime and will continue to do so.

6) The average motorist needs nothing more than a Yaris sized car with 150km fuel tank range for 95% of their driving and for the rest they ca n hire a car. What the average motorist wants however is different and is between them and their CFO.

Sponsored advertisement

  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I watched the video of it driving onto the stage and the wheel looked fine. I think its something to do with the angle if it has rear independent suspension. Anyway the actual cars they often use in these demo's is often nothing more than a skin on a rolling chassis, somethings not even the actual car with power train.
No, it was sticking out at an angle that suggested it was about to fall off. The fact that it managed to drive up there without falling off is beside the point. And it was the second major thing to go wrong; you don't see Ford or Toyota rolling out cars to the media that have major faults in them like that - the car clearly wasn't ready.
Billionaires investing money into science, its their money. In the mean time there are literally 10,000's of jobs been generated. Yep, obviously they are doing it wrong.
I think you would have loved living on an estate in the feudal times -

EDIT: At least Bill Gates is spending his money on something practical; trying to eliminate the effluent problem in the developing world; that project will ultimately save millions of people from disease and death. Richard Branson in particular is an appalling hypocrite; sending rich people into low-level orbit like its a carnival ride all the while lecturing Australia for selling coal? Stop wasting resources on your fancy projects and I'll listen to you.
don_dunstan
I know, but I watched the video as it drove on stage and it looked normal. So if it looked normal in a video, you don't think it says something over a still shot?

DO you want a long list of faults in Toyota's and Ford's that have killed people?

Ford is in decline and getting out of non-truck / Mustang market, says it all.

The ball bearing to the window, agree they should have tested that before, it was a simulation of a bullet, bullets are not made from steel.

So you are again telling people how to spend their money?
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Musks truck looks like a hammered Homer Simpson was let loose on some CAD software.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Musks truck looks like a hammered Homer Simpson was let loose on some CAD software.
michaelgm
Remember the episode where Homer was allowed to design a car, he sent the car company broke.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Well, it's already a hit with 187000 pre-orders in 3 days:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/11/24/teslas-cybertruck-preorders-reached-nearly-150-000-48-hours/4290463002/

Elon also says he'll make it in matte black (F-117 Stealth Fighter anyone?)

I'm still wondering how it will pass crash safety regulations and weigh less than 3 tonne...
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Musks truck looks like a hammered Homer Simpson was let loose on some CAD software.
Remember the episode where Homer was allowed to design a car, he sent the car company broke.
RTT_Rules
And I believe that ep of the Simpsons (Oh Brother, where art though) was a reference to the disasterous Ford Edsel project circa 1956/57?
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Well, it's already a hit with 187000 pre-orders in 3 days:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/11/24/teslas-cybertruck-preorders-reached-nearly-150-000-48-hours/4290463002/

Elon also says he'll make it in matte black (F-117 Stealth Fighter anyone?)

I'm still wondering how it will pass crash safety regulations and weigh less than 3 tonne...
Carnot
Oh the irony. Stealth fighters have three wheels or landing gear sets as well.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I know, but I watched the video as it drove on stage and it looked normal. So if it looked normal in a video, you don't think it says something over a still shot?

DO you want a long list of faults in Toyota's and Ford's that have killed people?

Ford is in decline and getting out of non-truck / Mustang market, says it all.

The ball bearing to the window, agree they should have tested that before, it was a simulation of a bullet, bullets are not made from steel.

So you are again telling people how to spend their money?
RTT_Rules
It looked normal? Everything about that thing was far from normal.

Ford is NOT in decline and in fact is the strongest out of the US manufacturers; they're releasing an electric Mustang, their sales are good.

I would bother reading your long diatribes if you ever got anything right... but you don't.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Well, it's already a hit with 187000 pre-orders in 3 days:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/11/24/teslas-cybertruck-preorders-reached-nearly-150-000-48-hours/4290463002/

Elon also says he'll make it in matte black (F-117 Stealth Fighter anyone?)

I'm still wondering how it will pass crash safety regulations and weigh less than 3 tonne...
Carnot
Three tonnes? It doesn't even sound roadworthy.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Well, it's already a hit with 187000 pre-orders in 3 days:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/11/24/teslas-cybertruck-preorders-reached-nearly-150-000-48-hours/4290463002/

Elon also says he'll make it in matte black (F-117 Stealth Fighter anyone?)

I'm still wondering how it will pass crash safety regulations and weigh less than 3 tonne...
Three tonnes? It doesn't even sound roadworthy.
don_dunstan
Someone might want to spend a few minutes on Google looking up the weight of other similar large vehicles.

Anyway, it won't weight 3t, less than 2.5t more likely.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I know, but I watched the video as it drove on stage and it looked normal. So if it looked normal in a video, you don't think it says something over a still shot?

DO you want a long list of faults in Toyota's and Ford's that have killed people?

Ford is in decline and getting out of non-truck / Mustang market, says it all.

The ball bearing to the window, agree they should have tested that before, it was a simulation of a bullet, bullets are not made from steel.

So you are again telling people how to spend their money?
It looked normal? Everything about that thing was far from normal.

Ford is NOT in decline and in fact is the strongest out of the US manufacturers; they're releasing an electric Mustang, their sales are good.

I would bother reading your long diatribes if you ever got anything right... but you don't.
don_dunstan
Really,
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/06/28/ford-j28.html
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jun/06/ford-to-close-bridgend-factory-in-september-2020
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/06/27/ford-europe-job-cuts-plant-closures/1581578001/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ford-motor-britain/ford-to-close-wales-engine-plant-in-latest-blow-to-uk-car-sector-idUSKCN1T70TM
https://www.ft.com/content/0882d5ae-56eb-11e9-91f9-b6515a54c5b1
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-26/what-would-henry-think-ford-is-about-to-abandon-american-sedans

shall I go on or do you want to waste more time?

The Ford Motor company is about to become the Ford Light Truck and Truck company.....and Mustang. Existing the "car" market from which it grew from because it cannot compete with asians and EV's in that range. They make a bucket load of cash from the F-150 and less from other models such as the Mustang. and to think you were critical of Ford Leaving Australia, what did you think they would make here, F-150's?

Being the strongest US manufacturer does not make you strong. I could be the best swimmer on the Titanic and how far would that have got me? You might want to spend 5sec looking up the Ford share price for last 5 years, hint its the opposite to the Tesla share price.

The video shows the wheel rolling normal as it came on stage and when the quad bike was being driven on, might be worth a look rather than continuing to carry on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ZUbd7kHZU
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Well, it's already a hit with 187000 pre-orders in 3 days:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/11/24/teslas-cybertruck-preorders-reached-nearly-150-000-48-hours/4290463002/

Elon also says he'll make it in matte black (F-117 Stealth Fighter anyone?)
Carnot
Radar absorbing may actually come in handy on the highways.

The car-truck is obviously going to be a sale success, although its not my thing. Can he make money out of it? Probably.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I know, but I watched the video as it drove on stage and it looked normal. So if it looked normal in a video, you don't think it says something over a still shot?

DO you want a long list of faults in Toyota's and Ford's that have killed people?

Ford is in decline and getting out of non-truck / Mustang market, says it all.

The ball bearing to the window, agree they should have tested that before, it was a simulation of a bullet, bullets are not made from steel.

So you are again telling people how to spend their money?
It looked normal? Everything about that thing was far from normal.

Ford is NOT in decline and in fact is the strongest out of the US manufacturers; they're releasing an electric Mustang, their sales are good.

I would bother reading your long diatribes if you ever got anything right... but you don't.
Really,
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/06/28/ford-j28.html
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jun/06/ford-to-close-bridgend-factory-in-september-2020
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/06/27/ford-europe-job-cuts-plant-closures/1581578001/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ford-motor-britain/ford-to-close-wales-engine-plant-in-latest-blow-to-uk-car-sector-idUSKCN1T70TM
https://www.ft.com/content/0882d5ae-56eb-11e9-91f9-b6515a54c5b1
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-26/what-would-henry-think-ford-is-about-to-abandon-american-sedans

shall I go on or do you want to waste more time?

The Ford Motor company is about to become the Ford Light Truck and Truck company.....and Mustang. Existing the "car" market from which it grew from because it cannot compete with asians and EV's in that range. They make a bucket load of cash from the F-150 and less from other models such as the Mustang. and to think you were critical of Ford Leaving Australia, what did you think they would make here, F-150's?

Being the strongest US manufacturer does not make you strong. I could be the best swimmer on the Titanic and how far would that have got me? You might want to spend 5sec looking up the Ford share price for last 5 years, hint its the opposite to the Tesla share price.

The video shows the wheel rolling normal as it came on stage and when the quad bike was being driven on, might be worth a look rather than continuing to carry on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ZUbd7kHZU
RTT_Rules
One moment you're saying Ford is stuffed, the next you change the argument to say "oh but they're doing okay with the light truck segment". Make up your mind.

It was a truck, not a quad bike. If the wheel is supposed to stick out like that because of independent rear suspension then it's probably not engineered safely. If it looks wrong then it probably is wrong.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Well, it's already a hit with 187000 pre-orders in 3 days:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/11/24/teslas-cybertruck-preorders-reached-nearly-150-000-48-hours/4290463002/

Elon also says he'll make it in matte black (F-117 Stealth Fighter anyone?)
Radar absorbing may actually come in handy on the highways.

The car-truck is obviously going to be a sale success, although its not my thing. Can he make money out of it? Probably.
RTT_Rules
Pleading ignorance here, in a world moving towards semi autonomous/autonomous vehicles, how can radar absorbing come in handy?

And Don, you'll continue to read! And comment, just the like the sun will come up tomorrow.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Radar absorbing may actually come in handy on the highways.

The car-truck is obviously going to be a sale success, although its not my thing. Can he make money out of it? Probably.
RTT_Rules
Radar-absorbing so that other Tesla cars can't see it - like this one in Florida earlier this year: Quartz Magazine.

On March 1, a Model 3 car slammed into a tractor-trailer attempting to cross a Florida highway traveling around 68 miles per hour, according to investigators who reviewed video footage from the car and nearby surveillance cameras. The impact sheared the roof off of the car, killing the driver, 50-year-old Jeremy Beren Banner. Investigators say Banner had engaged Autopilot about ten seconds before the crash, and did not have his hands on the wheels for up to eight seconds beforehand. NTSB did not assign blame to anyone for the incident and continues to investigate. Regardless, it’s at least the fourth lethal accident involving Tesla’s Autopilot so far.

It's very similar to the other incidents where Tesla cars have been unable to interpret obstacles in front of it despite new enhanced radar features in addition to the visual sensors. However the driver is ultimately at fault (the NTSB finds) because they didn't have their hands on the wheel.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Well, it's already a hit with 187000 pre-orders in 3 days:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/11/24/teslas-cybertruck-preorders-reached-nearly-150-000-48-hours/4290463002/

Elon also says he'll make it in matte black (F-117 Stealth Fighter anyone?)
Radar absorbing may actually come in handy on the highways.

The car-truck is obviously going to be a sale success, although its not my thing. Can he make money out of it? Probably.
Pleading ignorance here, in a world moving towards semi autonomous/autonomous vehicles, how can radar absorbing come in handy?

And Don, you'll continue to read! And comment, just the like the sun will come up tomorrow.
michaelgm
It was a joke referring to hiding from police radar, which is pointless technically these days as radar uses laser, not microwave.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Radar absorbing may actually come in handy on the highways.

The car-truck is obviously going to be a sale success, although its not my thing. Can he make money out of it? Probably.
Radar-absorbing so that other Tesla cars can't see it - like this one in Florida earlier this year: Quartz Magazine.

On March 1, a Model 3 car slammed into a tractor-trailer attempting to cross a Florida highway traveling around 68 miles per hour, according to investigators who reviewed video footage from the car and nearby surveillance cameras. The impact sheared the roof off of the car, killing the driver, 50-year-old Jeremy Beren Banner. Investigators say Banner had engaged Autopilot about ten seconds before the crash, and did not have his hands on the wheels for up to eight seconds beforehand. NTSB did not assign blame to anyone for the incident and continues to investigate. Regardless, it’s at least the fourth lethal accident involving Tesla’s Autopilot so far.

It's very similar to the other incidents where Tesla cars have been unable to interpret obstacles in front of it despite new enhanced radar features in addition to the visual sensors. However the driver is ultimately at fault (the NTSB finds) because they didn't have their hands on the wheel.
don_dunstan

He turned the auto pilot just before hitting the truck, if he didn't see the truck, should auto-pilot?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
One moment you're saying Ford is stuffed, the next you change the argument to say "oh but they're doing okay with the light truck segment". Make up your mind.

It was a truck, not a quad bike. If the wheel is supposed to stick out like that because of independent rear suspension then it's probably not engineered safely. If it looks wrong then it probably is wrong.
don_dunstan
Mmm, I said Ford is leaving the car building sector focusing on the truck building sector + Mustang and if Mustang sales ever falter, it will dropped like the Aussie Falcon.

again, again, again you really do need to read what people actually write. I said about the Quad bike being driven onto the truck!!!

I don't know when the photo was taken in reference to loading the Quad and I actually don't care either. The video shows the truck's air suspension returning the vehicle to level, it took about 20sec or so from memory.

If the truck has rear independent suspension, then the wheels will lean in when a significant load is placed on it. Have a look at many a 4x4 with same and you will see the same. Pajero's are an obvious one. Datsun 180B anybody???
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
He turned the auto pilot just before hitting the truck, if he didn't see the truck, should auto-pilot?
RTT_Rules
Another way of looking at it is that he only had the autopilot on for eight seconds before it managed to kill him.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It was a joke referring to hiding from police radar, which is pointless technically these days as radar uses laser, not microwave.
RTT_Rules
After the first Tesla autopilot crash in 2016 Elon Musk and his team installed (guess what?) radar sensors on the cars equipped with autopilot to assist the visual interpretations coming in from the cameras. And then he develops a car that can't be seen by radar... genius.

And before anyone asks the latest Tesla autopilot crash (March 2019) involved a car that was equipped with the latest radar-sensing technology but still for some reason STILL couldn't interpret data that suggested it was about to decapitate its owner by driving under a semi-trailer.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

One moment you're saying Ford is stuffed, the next you change the argument to say "oh but they're doing okay with the light truck segment". Make up your mind.

It was a truck, not a quad bike. If the wheel is supposed to stick out like that because of independent rear suspension then it's probably not engineered safely. If it looks wrong then it probably is wrong.
Mmm, I said Ford is leaving the car building sector focusing on the truck building sector + Mustang and if Mustang sales ever falter, it will dropped like the Aussie Falcon.

again, again, again you really do need to read what people actually write. I said about the Quad bike being driven onto the truck!!!

I don't know when the photo was taken in reference to loading the Quad and I actually don't care either. The video shows the truck's air suspension returning the vehicle to level, it took about 20sec or so from memory.

If the truck has rear independent suspension, then the wheels will lean in when a significant load is placed on it. Have a look at many a 4x4 with same and you will see the same. Pajero's are an obvious one. Datsun 180B anybody???
RTT_Rules
I used to drive a 1970 Datsun 1600 with IRS.  Brilliant car, especially on dirt roads (nothing could go quite like it).

Anyway, some leftist conspiracy theorists reckon Elon and his Cybertruck is responsible for the resignation of Evo Morales in Bolivia this month after Morales tried to nationalize Lithium mining in that country...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/14/what-the-coup-against-evo-morales-means-to-indigenous-people-like-me

"Before the coup, Evo attempted to nationalize its large lithium reserves, an element necessary for electric cars.  Since the coup, Tesla’s stocks have skyrocketed. Bolivia rebuked imperialist states like the United States and Canada by taking the path of resource nationalism to redistribute profits across society.
This was Evo’s crime."
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Back to the economy... several ominous signs recently but the worst is probably the fact that despite a massive increase in population over the last few years revenues from GST are still falling. From the Sydney Morning Herald:

...But the monthly GST collection figures point to continued weakness. Across September and October, the government collected just under $10.5 billion in GST. It was almost $600 million down on the same period last year and roughly in line with 2017.

That’s despite the country having 800,000 more residents today than in 2017. Over the same period an extra 650,000 people have a paying job.

More people, more people in employment - but $600,000,000 less in GST tax-take. Sounds like people are not spending money despite Josh Frydenburg telling them to get out there and do just that.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Back to the economy... several ominous signs recently but the worst is probably the fact that despite a massive increase in population over the last few years revenues from GST are still falling. From the Sydney Morning Herald:

...But the monthly GST collection figures point to continued weakness. Across September and October, the government collected just under $10.5 billion in GST. It was almost $600 million down on the same period last year and roughly in line with 2017.

That’s despite the country having 800,000 more residents today than in 2017. Over the same period an extra 650,000 people have a paying job.

More people, more people in employment - but $600,000,000 less in GST tax-take. Sounds like people are not spending money despite Josh Frydenburg telling them to get out there and do just that.
don_dunstan
Ahem.  Many more people doing work ..... for cash payment.

Meanwhile, disgraced Westpac boss goes into early retirement and pockets $2.7 million as he walks out the door.  Is it any wonder we are fed up with the banks and corporate Australia?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-26/westpac-ceo-brian-hartzer-quits-money-laundering-scandal/11737864
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Ahem.  Many more people doing work ..... for cash payment.

Meanwhile, disgraced Westpac boss goes into early retirement and pockets $2.7 million as he walks out the door.  Is it any wonder we are fed up with the banks and corporate Australia?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-26/westpac-ceo-brian-hartzer-quits-money-laundering-scandal/11737864
Carnot
Yeah but in theory more people working for cash shouldn't have any impact on GST because that's at the consumption end of the tax spectrum, not the on the income-tax side of the ledger. So the money is being earned but not spent in Australia.

There's presently about 1.5 million people working in Australia on 'temporary' visas that allow them working rights (482, spousal visas etc) - many of those people would be sending money they earn back to their home countries. There's no official figures on the amount of money flowing out of Australia this way but I'm guessing 'guest workers' who send remittances overseas might be part of the explanation as to why that money isn't being spent on-shore.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The Chinese foreign ministry mocks our 'hysteria' over the attempted infiltration of Australia's parliament by Chinese intelligence operatives - from News.com.au:

China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Geng Shuang has accused Australia of being in a "state of hysteria" over the allegation that China attempted to infiltrate our parliament.

"Stories like 'Chinese espionage' or 'China's infiltration in Australia', with however bizarre plots and eye-catching details, are nothing but lies," Mr Geng said overnight.

"We have not interfered and are never interested in interfering in other countries' domestic affairs.

So all that building bases in Sri Lanka and Cambodia isn't interfering? Pull the other one.

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