It's the economy, stupid!

 
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
If you want to continually bring up past discrimination suffered by our indigenous population, which I acknowledge, then that's your prerogative, but don't try to tar everyone in this era with the same brush.  This is 2020, not 1788.  It's also totally irrelevant in the context of the current conversation in the 21st Century, which is about the economy and the impact of immigration.
OK, Boomer.
Wrong!  You shouldn't assume anything until you know the facts.  This discussion is going nowhere, so let's call it off.
Transtopic
No, I won't let you off the hook.

Like I have written elsewhere lately the recent revival of the 'OK Boomer' phenomenon has nothing to do with birthdate, but all to do with the attitude typically shown by that certain generation. Despite your now apparent immaturity you indeed demonstrate the hallmarks of a pompous, privileged fogey; being scared of 'others' is a typical trait.

Your recent rhetoric about being 'completely taken over' and 'forced to shop elsewhere' is absolutely ridiculous and you know it. I can only think of one reason why you would write such crap, and you and I both know it, even though you won't ever admit it.

Sponsored advertisement

  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
That's the main benefit of gum forests is that they grow back after a fire and indeed need fires to germinate the gum nuts. I have seen photos of gum trees completely burnt but they are probably very young trees or old trees with rotten cores. In the latter case you can see the fire burning the core of the tree. Gum forests do not burn to the ground. Pine trees etc just burn and die and that's why they are not a great idea in fire prone areas of Australia.
nswtrains
Thanks, this is my point. For the vast majority of the native species it will be business as usual. I've grown up in bush areas, done lots of camping and own bush blocks so I know it happens and for anyone to say its all destroyed / dead is basically talking out of their ar$e.

The exception is some of the more extreme fires can do so much damage to the vegetation and wild life that regrowth is much slower and takes some time for things to recover and macro native fauna to repopulate.

We will be in Batlow in 9 weeks helping some family so I'm expecting to see plenty of green over the black.

By chance Russel Crowe posted this this morning.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/russell-crowe-shows-incredible-impact-recent-rain-had-on-firegrounds/news-story/407b4bad7a10ce94610b6f348bfb7ade
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
That's the main benefit of gum forests is that they grow back after a fire and indeed need fires to germinate the gum nuts. I have seen photos of gum trees completely burnt but they are probably very young trees or old trees with rotten cores. In the latter case you can see the fire burning the core of the tree. Gum forests do not burn to the ground. Pine trees etc just burn and die and that's why they are not a great idea in fire prone areas of Australia.
Thanks, this is my point. For the vast majority of the native species it will be business as usual. I've grown up in bush areas, done lots of camping and own bush blocks so I know it happens and for anyone to say its all destroyed / dead is basically talking out of their ar$e.

The exception is some of the more extreme fires can do so much damage to the vegetation and wild life that regrowth is much slower and takes some time for things to recover and macro native fauna to repopulate.

We will be in Batlow in 9 weeks helping some family so I'm expecting to see plenty of green over the black.

By chance Russel Crowe posted this this morning.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/russell-crowe-shows-incredible-impact-recent-rain-had-on-firegrounds/news-story/407b4bad7a10ce94610b6f348bfb7ade
RTT_Rules
Byron Bay is NOT Australia! Russell Crowe is NOT Australian! How many times have I told you that the internet isn't representative of reality and you still ignore me - you could be told that Meghan Markle is a nice person via the internet and you'd believe it.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
If you want to continually bring up past discrimination suffered by our indigenous population, which I acknowledge, then that's your prerogative, but don't try to tar everyone in this era with the same brush.  This is 2020, not 1788.  It's also totally irrelevant in the context of the current conversation in the 21st Century, which is about the economy and the impact of immigration.
OK, Boomer.
Wrong!  You shouldn't assume anything until you know the facts.  This discussion is going nowhere, so let's call it off.
No, I won't let you off the hook.

Like I have written elsewhere lately the recent revival of the 'OK Boomer' phenomenon has nothing to do with birthdate, but all to do with the attitude typically shown by that certain generation. Despite your now apparent immaturity you indeed demonstrate the hallmarks of a pompous, privileged fogey; being scared of 'others' is a typical trait.

Your recent rhetoric about being 'completely taken over' and 'forced to shop elsewhere' is absolutely ridiculous and you know it. I can only think of one reason why you would write such crap, and you and I both know it, even though you won't ever admit it.
DirtyBallast
Thank you.  I will try to be more accepting of the changes in our multi-cultural society in future.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
@RTT, yes, the vast majority of bush will grow back, fauna will also revive, and it will be business as usual. BTW Nana Glen/Coffs Coast is a beautiful part of the world.

What I worry about is flooding rains in certain areas so soon after the forest floor has been decimated, which results in mudslides etc. The land in such areas will take much longer to recover. If another event happens before then, the damage might be permanent.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
@RTT, yes, the vast majority of bush will grow back, fauna will also revive, and it will be business as usual. BTW Nana Glen/Coffs Coast is a beautiful part of the world.

What I worry about is flooding rains in certain areas so soon after the forest floor has been decimated, which results in mudslides etc. The land in such areas will take much longer to recover. If another event happens before then, the damage might be permanent.
DirtyBallast
OMG so that's climate change too! Anyone would think that this was a continent with extremely variable weather conditions... but of course that isn't true. Climate change is responsible for everything, isn't it.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
NSW and VIC governments are both BROKE, both governments have run out of things to privatise and are going deeply into debt to keep up with growth. This is in no way sustainable.
NSW is not broke or suffering from significant debt.
WRONG again. Berejiklian's debt is projected to expand to $40,000,000,000 in the next year. Not as bad as the projected debt for Victoria @ $90,000,000,000 by 2024 but nevertheless deteriorating at a very rapid pace.
Bum bum, not next year, 3 years away and that's if they do nothing in between. The state is running a surplus, its committed capital spending pushing it into the Red.

NSW retains its Triple A credit rating and net debt is currently at zero, with $8.8  in the bank. But net debt levels are forecast to rise to $12.3 billion in 2019-20, and up to $38.6 billion in 2022-23.billionJun 18, 2019

So back to your beginning statement, no, that is incorrect for NSW!
RTT_Rules
Well I must have read the article incorrectly (it's projected for three years, not one) but that's STILL a huge amount of money considering GST revenues are projected to be down by $10,000,000,000 and there's nothing left for NSW to sell. They got a one-off sugar hit from their power privatisation - the same as Dan Andrews got a big whack of money from the privatisation of the Port of Melbourne - and now there's nothing left.

Actually that's not quite true, NSW and VIC are both looking around for anything else they can flog. Berejiklian flogged off the Land Titles office in NSW for $2.6 billion in 2017 with the promise that fees would remain capped at inflation - but the new owners immediately hiked some of their fees by huge amounts (some by 1900%) and started implementing a whole new range of fees until they were found out and made to adhere to the terms of their contract (Fairfax/Nine). Same in Victoria, Land Titles office flogged off for $2.86 billion and immediately started putting prices up.

Victoria is actually scoping the sale of some previously untouchable assets such as the operation of VicRoads motor registry (Morgan Stanley is advising them on this), the Transport Accident Commission (you can bet they won't stay headquartered in Geelong if they're not government controlled any longer, the insurance industry is salivating with the prospect of getting their hands on that particular juicy uncontested monopoly) and even the Public Records Office. Dan Andrews might overtly be a touchy-feely socialist but in practice he's Margaret Thatcher through and through.

You seriously have to wonder what the point of State governments is any longer if they don't even provide fundamental services like car registration, land titles, public records etc any longer - and you can bet that the cost of using those services will soar under new private owners. It's bad enough that the overall taxation burden to the Australian public has increased by around 4.5% every year for Commonwealth, state and local government revenues for the last five years - now the cost of the few remaining state government services will soar as well.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
@RTT, yes, the vast majority of bush will grow back, fauna will also revive, and it will be business as usual. BTW Nana Glen/Coffs Coast is a beautiful part of the world.

What I worry about is flooding rains in certain areas so soon after the forest floor has been decimated, which results in mudslides etc. The land in such areas will take much longer to recover. If another event happens before then, the damage might be permanent.
OMG so that's climate change too! Anyone would think that this was a continent with extremely variable weather conditions... but of course that isn't true. Climate change is responsible for everything, isn't it.
don_dunstan
You were drunk when you wrote that, weren't you?

I didn't imply climate change being a factor at all. YOU'RE the one looking for 'commies under the bed' so to speak. I was simply stating that floods in severely fire affected areas will result in longer recovery for the land, and another fire through the same area in a couple of years time might finish it off.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Biology 101,
Plants absorb CO2 to build growth.Correct?

So as the forest grows from a cleared field its absorbing CO2 and storing, ie carbon capture or also carbon offset.

As the forest grows it drops leaves and branches, this falls to the ground and decomposes over time, or a fire comes. Regardless the net result is the same, the Carbon used in the trees biochemistry is released. If the forest is still growing the loss is off-set with more growth.

However at some point all forests reach a break even point, ie the new growth Co2 uptake is matched by the decaying material on the forest floor. At this point the forest is deemed mature and basically absorbs no extra net CO2 overall. Hence as stated by many, an old growth forest cannot provide any net carbon capture to reduce global warming.

The exception to this is over time lines way beyond human existence, ie the biomass builds up on the floor and some of its contained in the peat and the forest grows on this. ie  how oil/coal was made. As this process is counted in millions of years it is not relevant to today's issue as as a means of carbon capture. ie we cannot grow new oil fields or coal seem in a few human generations.

However what you can do is grow trees then cut into timber and grow replacement trees. As this sort of happens anyway, I don't personally believe this is a genuine means of carbon capture and much of the tree is waste that is mulched and timber eventually finds its way into a fire somewhere.

Biomass power stations are considered carbon neutral, because you grow, you burn and you grow again.
RTT_Rules
In fairness, you've raised some good points there. Dead timber and other organic matter on the floor of the forest does indeed break down and release carbon dioxide as the micro-organisms etc turn it into compost - but then that's also essential for the growth of the forest and the health of the soil that the trees live in. The trees themselves still absorb the carbon dioxide for as long as they're alive (not when dormant during winter though as Michael pointed out).

However I don't agree with the idea that burning biomass as a fuel is carbon neutral - as we've discussed before you have to consume diesel when you're preparing the biomass for burning, it has to be processed and transported. An evaluation of turning Ireland's only coal-fired power station to biomass found it would burn 223 square kilometers of forest every year of operation - probably from plantations like the ones on Kangaroo Island and most likely shipped from the other side of the world as discussed further in this article - The Times.

By the time you account for all the carbon produced in preparation of the fuel pellets/woodchips, shipping to the other side of the world and finally burning it in a power station you might as well have burnt coal... but for some reason the European Union says 'biomass' is completely carbon neutral. Yet another 'green' solution that isn't nearly as 'carbon neutral' as it seems in my opinion.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
@RTT, yes, the vast majority of bush will grow back, fauna will also revive, and it will be business as usual. BTW Nana Glen/Coffs Coast is a beautiful part of the world.

What I worry about is flooding rains in certain areas so soon after the forest floor has been decimated, which results in mudslides etc. The land in such areas will take much longer to recover. If another event happens before then, the damage might be permanent.
OMG so that's climate change too! Anyone would think that this was a continent with extremely variable weather conditions... but of course that isn't true. Climate change is responsible for everything, isn't it.
You were drunk when you wrote that, weren't you?

I didn't imply climate change being a factor at all. YOU'RE the one looking for 'commies under the bed' so to speak. I was simply stating that floods in severely fire affected areas will result in longer recovery for the land, and another fire through the same area in a couple of years time might finish it off.
DirtyBallast
I might have been enjoying some of the very fine scotch that someone gave me at Christmas, yes!

But I was getting really annoyed yesterday with people tweeting out that the hail-storms in Canberra and Melbourne were due to (ta-da!) climate change, including a lot of people who damn well should know better.

Didn't any of them read Dorothea MacKellar at school? This is how it's always been - Australia is incredibly wild, unpredictable and we get extreme weather events any time of the year and in places you don't always expect it. Even the weather 'experts' at the Bureau of Meteorology were telling the government last month that there would be no meaningful rain in drought-affected eastern Australia until April this year - and now they have egg all over their faces because they were completely wrong.

How are we supposed to believe the accuracy of those doomsday predictions about the future climate when the experts can't even tell us what's going to happen next week?
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Even the weather 'experts' at the Bureau of Meteorology were telling the government last month that there would be no meaningful rain in drought-affected eastern Australia until April this year - and now they have egg all over their faces because they were completely wrong.

How are we supposed to believe the accuracy of those doomsday predictions about the future climate when the experts can't even tell us what's going to happen next week?
don_dunstan

Just another example of the elites at work, eh Pol Pot Razz

And it's quite clear you never paid attention in Geography or Physics classes when in school.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Even the weather 'experts' at the Bureau of Meteorology were telling the government last month that there would be no meaningful rain in drought-affected eastern Australia until April this year - and now they have egg all over their faces because they were completely wrong.

How are we supposed to believe the accuracy of those doomsday predictions about the future climate when the experts can't even tell us what's going to happen next week?

Just another example of the elites at work, eh Pol Pot Razz

And it's quite clear you never paid attention in Geography or Physics classes when in school.
bingley hall
So it doesn't concern you that a huge multi-million dollar bureaucracy whose exclusive job is to predict the weather couldn't get their job right? They told the government no rain at all on the east coast until April - and they were wrong - it's got nothing whatsoever to do with my education or some kind of a conspiracy involving elites.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Didn't any of them read Dorothea MacKellar at school? This is how it's always been -
don_dunstan
Well, you stick to your poems and I'll stick to the data.

Mackellar put some words down based on her own observations at the time. Things have changed since then.

I could use your tactics Don and suggest that the poem is a load of rubbish because it doesn't include the word unprecedented! Laughing
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
How have things changed in 100 years?    Australia still has droughts and flooding rains.   It gets hot, it gets cold, like it always has.   Climate changes,  always has, always will.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Didn't any of them read Dorothea MacKellar at school? This is how it's always been -
Well, you stick to your poems and I'll stick to the data.

Mackellar put some words down based on her own observations at the time. Things have changed since then.

I could use your tactics Don and suggest that the poem is a load of rubbish because it doesn't include the word unprecedented! Laughing
DirtyBallast
There's nothing unprecedented about the recent fires, about ten times the amount of area burnt in 1974.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I know that I'll be accused of giving the Nazi salute with this one: That bastion of fascist news the ABC reports that more than half of all workers in Australia are worried about their jobs being taken from them by the 'gig economy', recession and (gasp!) cheaper migrant workers. How dare they think those thoughts!

The 2020 Edelman Trust Barometer - now in its 20th year - has found many people no longer believe working hard will give them a better life...

...Australians were most worried about losing their job to the gig economy, followed by recession, lack of training, and foreign competitors.

The study also found a growing "trust chasm" between elites and the public that could be a reflection of income inequality, Edelman said.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
How have things changed in 100 years?    Australia still has droughts and flooding rains.   It gets hot, it gets cold, like it always has.   Climate changes,  always has, always will.
Donald
Yes yes yes, but the rate of change has been measurably different over the past few decades. You would have to deliberately look the other way to not know that.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I know that I'll be accused of giving the Nazi salute with this one: That bastion of fascist news the ABC reports that more than half of all workers in Australia are worried about their jobs being taken from them by the 'gig economy', recession and (gasp!) cheaper migrant workers. How dare they think those thoughts!

The 2020 Edelman Trust Barometer - now in its 20th year - has found many people no longer believe working hard will give them a better life...

...Australians were most worried about losing their job to the gig economy, followed by recession, lack of training, and foreign competitors.

The study also found a growing "trust chasm" between elites and the public that could be a reflection of income inequality, Edelman said.
don_dunstan
How many jobs that existed in 1990 globally have been wiped out by "meg economy" of the 386/486 Intel computing power? Did the world fall in a heap?

How many jobs were wiped out by the dawn of automation in the 70's and 80's?

How many jobs were wiped out by the internal combustion engine?

How many jobs were wiped out by the steam era and industrial revolution?

The developed world has now gone through and survived the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Industrial revolutions. More people are employed in those countries than ever, more people have higher incomes than ever, the standard of living, workplace OHS&E and general employment conditions by the working class are generally better.

Industry 4.0 is no longer coming, its here.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I know that I'll be accused of giving the Nazi salute with this one: That bastion of fascist news the ABC reports that more than half of all workers in Australia are worried about their jobs being taken from them by the 'gig economy', recession and (gasp!) cheaper migrant workers. How dare they think those thoughts!

The 2020 Edelman Trust Barometer - now in its 20th year - has found many people no longer believe working hard will give them a better life...

...Australians were most worried about losing their job to the gig economy, followed by recession, lack of training, and foreign competitors.

The study also found a growing "trust chasm" between elites and the public that could be a reflection of income inequality, Edelman said.
How many jobs that existed in 1990 globally have been wiped out by "meg economy" of the 386/486 Intel computing power? Did the world fall in a heap?

How many jobs were wiped out by the dawn of automation in the 70's and 80's?

How many jobs were wiped out by the internal combustion engine?

How many jobs were wiped out by the steam era and industrial revolution?

The developed world has now gone through and survived the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Industrial revolutions. More people are employed in those countries than ever, more people have higher incomes than ever, the standard of living, workplace OHS&E and general employment conditions by the working class are generally better.

Industry 4.0 is no longer coming, its here.
RTT_Rules
You're okay and that's all that matters. Isn't it.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
How have things changed in 100 years?    Australia still has droughts and flooding rains.   It gets hot, it gets cold, like it always has.   Climate changes,  always has, always will.
Yes yes yes, but the rate of change has been measurably different over the past few decades. You would have to deliberately look the other way to not know that.
DirtyBallast
So let's review again the damage the carbon monster has caused us here in 2020:

The Maldives and Tuvalu drowned just like Al Gore said. Half of Florida and Manhattan has disappeared underwater just like Al Gore said. Polar ice completely disappeared, hasn't it, there's no such thing as that any more. All the glaciers are gone from New Zealand just like we were told. Perth is now totally uninhabitable just like Tim Flannery said too, they've had to long since abandon that place. And all those mega-cyclones as far south as Sydney that they said we'd get - well we're just being smashed with them on a regular basis aren't we!

All those terrible things the carbon monster was predicted to do - it's doing all that and more. The sky is blood red and I think I can see four horsemen coming...
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
How have things changed in 100 years?    Australia still has droughts and flooding rains.   It gets hot, it gets cold, like it always has.   Climate changes,  always has, always will.
Yes yes yes, but the rate of change has been measurably different over the past few decades. You would have to deliberately look the other way to not know that.
So let's review again the damage the carbon monster has caused us here in 2020:

The Maldives and Tuvalu drowned just like Al Gore said. Half of Florida and Manhattan has disappeared underwater just like Al Gore said. Polar ice completely disappeared, didn't it, there's no such thing as that any more. All the glaciers are gone from New Zealand just like we were told. Perth is now totally uninhabitable just like Tim Flannery said too, they've had to long since abandon that place. And all those mega-cyclones as far south as Sydney that they said we'd get - well we're just being smashed with them on a regular basis aren't we!

All those terrible things the carbon monster was predicted to do - it's doing all that and more.
don_dunstan
And I previously provided a link that showed a true prediction about more severe bushfires before 2020...and you poo-pooed it because it didn't contain the word unprecedented.

In the meantime YOUR predictions aren't wort a c__t full of cold water.

For those who think nothing has changed at all, grow a set and take the test:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-06/how-climate-change-has-impacted-your-life/11766018
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
...general employment conditions by the working class are generally better.
RTT_Rules
Australian living standards are FALLING, this has been explained to you many, many times and yet you continue to ignore it. Here's a link for you - ABC:

If there is one big thing that is keeping the economy from officially going backwards, it is population growth.

Take out the impact of the population, GDP growth is a very line ball call.

GDP per capita shrank in the third quarter and on some forecasts it will shrink again in the fourth quarter — which technically would be a recession of sorts.

The maths is pretty simple.

Australia's population grows at around 0.4 per cent a quarter (1.6 per cent a year). Quarterly GDP growth of 0.4 per cent delivers no growth on a per capita basis.

So there's NO GROWTH in GDP per capita and the average Australian has seen their living standard fall. According to other measures like raw wages growth the average Australian has been going backwards since 2012. Again, I think you need to be actually living here to experience the zeitgeist of the place - you read too much LNP propaganda and believe it.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
How have things changed in 100 years?    Australia still has droughts and flooding rains.   It gets hot, it gets cold, like it always has.   Climate changes,  always has, always will.
Yes yes yes, but the rate of change has been measurably different over the past few decades. You would have to deliberately look the other way to not know that.
So let's review again the damage the carbon monster has caused us here in 2020:

The Maldives and Tuvalu drowned just like Al Gore said. Half of Florida and Manhattan has disappeared underwater just like Al Gore said. Polar ice completely disappeared, didn't it, there's no such thing as that any more. All the glaciers are gone from New Zealand just like we were told. Perth is now totally uninhabitable just like Tim Flannery said too, they've had to long since abandon that place. And all those mega-cyclones as far south as Sydney that they said we'd get - well we're just being smashed with them on a regular basis aren't we!

All those terrible things the carbon monster was predicted to do - it's doing all that and more.
And I previously provided a link that showed a true prediction about more severe bushfires before 2020...and you poo-pooed it because it didn't contain the word unprecedented.

In the meantime YOUR predictions aren't wort a c__t full of cold water.

For those who think nothing has changed at all, grow a set and take the test:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-06/how-climate-change-has-impacted-your-life/11766018
DirtyBallast
I love how you neatly skirted around the total inability of 'climate science' to predict the sun coming up tomorrow; like it doesn't matter that none of those catastrophic predictions about the end of the world came true - but that's okay because I just have to have faith that it will come true...

You people seriously wanted us to spend something like $400,000,000,000 on battling the mythical carbon monster without a shred of evidence that:
  • Our efforts would make the tiniest bit of difference globally;
  • That there will be a new golden age of jobs and growth if only we went down that path.
Thank God Australians saw through that guff and didn't vote for it. There's no way that the ALP will go for yet another aggressive plan to tackle the carbon monster like that halfwit Shorten - they know that Australians outside of Sydney and Melbourne will not vote for it. Those cosmopolitan metro-dwelling people live in a bubble totally isolated from the needs and concerns of the rest of us... lucky they are not in the majority.


Sorry Dirty Ballast but most of Australia simply doesn't think like you do.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
And I previously provided a link that showed a true prediction about more severe bushfires before 2020...and you poo-pooed it because it didn't contain the word unprecedented.
DirtyBallast
On this point there's been three primary reasons why the fires of the last month have been so severe:
  • Fuel loads were incredibly high due to the refusal of authorities to burn and the refusal of councils to allow property holders to clear fire hazards from around their properties;
  • There had been severe drought in most of those areas making the fuel load more volatile;
  • Some properties simply couldn't possibly be defended by fire-fighting services because the event was too severe and large, property inaccessible and/or too close to the fire fuel sources.
All of these things had been discussed in the Royal Commission that followed the Black Saturday fires in 2009 - and most of those recommendations appear to have been ignored. Fuel reduction burns not done; people living in places that can't be defended from fire - especially large fire events that require a lot of resources to try and control.

We need to think more seriously about the reality that living in rural and regional areas and how to manage the constant threat of fire. As the land-holder you are primarily responsible for the management of your property and defence from fire - you can't always rely on the CFS/CFA/RFS to be able to rescue you because in a large scale emergency they often can't.

More power needs to be given to property owners to be able to clear and manage hazards (particularly trees and other sources of fuel) that are close to their houses/structures. My mate who lives on Kangaroo Island has a clear perimeter around his house of nearly 100m in all directions and he purposely did this to mitigate any fire risk. The only vegetation he allows close to his house is a few exotic trees and shrubs that don't burn like elm and ash trees. The problem is that local government won't always let you do this because of conservation and an insistence on providing vegetation for native animals and birds.

So what's more important - bird nesting sites or property and human life? There's got to be a proper balance between the two.
  C2 Junior Train Controller

Give the land over to indigenous Corporations we have got no idea how to look after their country , then it stays in Australian hands and can be leased to farmers or foreign corporations that won't clear fell , we are on the WWF as a leader in clearing Forests The emerald Isle is north of the sunburt country, Don Don Don

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