Auscision V/Line L class

 
  Mikey308 Beginner

Heya guys. I've just bought an Auscision Victorian L class.  I have a problem where it often jumps off the track when going around certain corners and especially at some points as well. None of my other locos have had any problems with the track before. The track is code 100 atlas. I have 18 and 22 inch radius and the points are peco set track curved points. Has anyone else had a similar problem? Is it just that the L class is not suited to my track or are the corners too tight for it? Could the loco be faulty at all? Any help offered is greatly appreciated. Thanks. Mikey.

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  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT
May I be so bold as to suggest that maybe your track is not suitable for the L as opposed to the other way around. The radius of your curves are very tight for a three axle loco.

That said, it is possible that the wheels maybe a little bit out of gauge. BUT, I suspect that the culprit is tight radius curves when the loco is coupled to other rollingstock all with fixed couplers.

Get a NMRA gauge and check the gauge of the wheels anyway. Always a good tool to have.

Good luck.

Dan
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

May I be so bold as to suggest that maybe your track is not suitable for the L as opposed to the other way around. The radius of your curves are very tight for a three axle loco.

That said, it is possible that the wheels maybe a little bit out of gauge. BUT, I suspect that the culprit is tight radius curves when the loco is coupled to other rollingstock all with fixed couplers.

Get a NMRA gauge and check the gauge of the wheels anyway. Always a good tool to have.

Good luck.

Dan
SA_trains
Also check that the sanding pipes are not stopping the bogies from swinging. If so some delicate bending will solve the problem.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I'll second Kingfisher's  post:

"Also check that the sanding pipes are not stopping the bogies from swinging. If so some delicate bending will solve the problem."

That may be the problem. I have had several locos fixed by judicial pruning or bending of these pipes.

Regards,
David Head
  Mikey308 Beginner

Thanks for the suggestions. I've trimmed the sanding pipes and it has improved it somewhat however it is still randomly riding up and over the rails on some points
  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT
Thanks for the suggestions. I've trimmed the sanding pipes and it has improved it somewhat however it is still randomly riding up and over the rails on some points
Mikey308
AHHH!

I just recalled that you are using set track points. Basically, they are for more toy-like models and the check-rails have too much gap between the rail and the check rail.

Get a thin piece of strip styrene and glue it to the inside face of each check rail. That will assist keeping the bogies on-track. As I mentioned previously, it would still be worthwhile getting a NMRA Standards gauge. It has a gauge for the gap between the rails and the check rails, not to mention a wheel gauge. The are only about $10 and they are an essential tool that will last for life. Still check the wheels to ensure that they are in-gauge.

Cheers,

Dan
  Mikey308 Beginner

Thanks Dan, I will give that a shot. I've just ordered a gauge to check the wheels. I've also been told people have had similar issues with Auscision A and B class and they rectified it by getting some flangless wheels for the centre axles so that will be my last resort if all else fails
  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT
Thanks Dan, I will give that a shot. I've just ordered a gauge to check the wheels. I've also been told people have had similar issues with Auscision A and B class and they rectified it by getting some flangless wheels for the centre axles so that will be my last resort if all else fails
Mikey308

Hi Mikey,

Apologies if perhaps I haven't been clear enough, the NMRA Standards Gauge does several checks. Wheel gauge, coupler height, track, flangeways and a couple of others as well as the physical loading gauge (noting a US centric loading gauge). (The US call it a Standards Gage as they can't spell....) As a regular thing, it is worthwhile to check that wheels are in gauge.

But, the real issue is your track in my belief. Set track points are not really suitable for modern, hi quality, scale models. The radius of the divergent track is generally too tight for large locos. In particular should you decide to buy steam engines with fine flanges and two or more coupled wheels, they will just cause you grief. Likewise with curves of 18/22 inch radius on the track.

The prospect of replacing perfectly good wheels with flangeless wheels to cater for track designed more for "train sets" would be very sad for the high quality model that you have purchased.

I encourage you to look at modifying your layout to wider radius curves and better quality points.

Good luck.
  73LJWhiteSL Deputy Commissioner

Location: South East Melbourne Surburbs
I may be incorrect but are not the peco setrack points more like 15" radius? Pretty sure thats their '1st radius'. I'd be ditching them and using the streamline range. Pretty sure with part numbers ST = SetTrack, SL= StreamLine

Definitely look to increase your radius on your curves where possible,  if not run shorter rolling-stock (e.g. 4 axle instead of 6 axle locos, 4 wheelers or short bogies wagons instead of the really long ones).
  hosk1956 Deputy Commissioner

Location: no where near gunzels
Thanks for the suggestions. I've trimmed the sanding pipes and it has improved it somewhat however it is still randomly riding up and over the rails on some points
As I mentioned previously, it would still be worthwhile getting a NMRA Standards gauge. The are only about $10 and they are an essential tool that will last for life.
Cheers,

Dan
SA_trains
I'll take 2 at that price thanks. $25.80 at Trainworld, which is the only on line price I could find.

Wayne
  sol Assistant Commissioner

Location: Evanston Gardens SA
Kadee H0 track /wheel gauge
NMRA members pay U$5 plus postage - non-members are U$12 plus postage.
  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT
Thanks for the suggestions. I've trimmed the sanding pipes and it has improved it somewhat however it is still randomly riding up and over the rails on some points
As I mentioned previously, it would still be worthwhile getting a NMRA Standards gauge. The are only about $10 and they are an essential tool that will last for life.
Cheers,

Dan
I'll take 2 at that price thanks. $25.80 at Trainworld, which is the only on line price I could find.

Wayne
hosk1956

Well... in fairness, I bought mine ages ago and given that it is a pressed piece of thin sheet metal I assumed wrong then I guess... Never-the-less... a tool that will last a life-time is still great value at $26 in my book! I had a quick look at my favourite US store and they were US$12 each.

Cheers

Dan
  Kevin Martin Chief Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
I may be incorrect but are not the peco setrack points more like 15" radius? Pretty sure thats their '1st radius'. I'd be ditching them and using the streamline range. Pretty sure with part numbers ST = SetTrack, SL= StreamLine

Definitely look to increase your radius on your curves where possible,  if not run shorter rolling-stock (e.g. 4 axle instead of 6 axle locos, 4 wheelers or short bogies wagons instead of the really long ones).
73LJWhiteSL
I agree with most of your points (sorry for the pun), but I should mention that Mikey308 did say in the original post that he was using Atlas track at 18 inch & 22 inch radius, so not Peco set track. Certainly not ideal, but surely better than Peco or Hornby set track.

Mikey308, is the problem on only the sharper radius, or both?
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

No quoting whole post please


(Okay keyboard, start working! - Of course if Railpage would work in Chrome, that wouldn't happen!)


Mikey, are you sure it's not HOW you've laid the track?


Have you got a video of what you mean?





Model rail companies may say that modern stock can run around 18" (46cm) curves, but I've seen that, and they either "just" make it, or derail.



Have you tried I believe some people use longer couplings?
  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT
I agree with most of your points (sorry for the pun), but I should mention that Mikey308 did say in the original post that he was using Atlas track at 18 inch & 22 inch radius, so not Peco set track. Certainly not ideal, but surely better than Peco or Hornby set track.

Mikey308, is the problem on only the sharper radius, or both?
Kevin Martin


Hi Kevin, from the original post by Mikey308, (my bolding)

snip....  The track is code 100 atlas. I have 18 and 22 inch radius and the points are peco set track curved points. ...snip
Mikey308


Based  on the original post, I'd say that Mikey is using Atlas curved set track and Peco set track points.

Regards,

Dan
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Note I can only scroll using the mouse well, so it's hard to go up/down a page

SA_trains, I know that, but he hasn't said how his track is laid. Perhaps his track is not as level, that he can;t see.

(Oh rats , can't enter a new line) I still think he should go over all his track. Oh Mikey, how big is your layout? (What strange formatting I saw!)
  Kevin Martin Chief Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
I agree with most of your points (sorry for the pun), but I should mention that Mikey308 did say in the original post that he was using Atlas track at 18 inch & 22 inch radius, so not Peco set track. Certainly not ideal, but surely better than Peco or Hornby set track.

Mikey308, is the problem on only the sharper radius, or both?


Hi Kevin, from the original post by Mikey308, (my bolding)

snip....  The track is code 100 atlas. I have 18 and 22 inch radius and the points are peco set track curved points. ...snip


Based  on the original post, I'd say that Mikey is using Atlas curved set track and Peco set track points.

Regards,

Dan
SA_trains
Indeed your correct. My apologies.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

No quoting all of the post - makes it hard to read

None of my other locos have had any problems with the track before.
Mikey308
What type of locos are they, and do they have couplings that separate the carriages from the loco more?

I have 18 and 22 inch radius and the points are peco set track curved points.
Mikey308

Question: Mikey, do you have the points right next to the curve section(s)?
  Mikey308 Beginner

Hi guys,

Sorry for the confusion.  I have a 6 x 4 foot layout.  (Unfortunately in a 3 bedroom sharehouse living with two girls who own a LOT of stuff, the shed outside is the only place I could fit a layout for now) Its two ovals with 22" outdside radius and 18" inside radius.  The curves are Atlas and the straights are various flex track.  The points are Peco set track curved points which I believe are 18" radius. (side note the guys at the Auscision stand at Sandown on the weekend where I bought the L class said it will work fine on 18" and larger)

The other loco's I havent had any problems with have been an Austrains H class and a Trainorama 48 class (no longer own it though).

The track is layed onto cork roadbed and spiked down.  I spent a pretty good amount of time laying the track to make sure it was done nice and flat and I used I think Peco brand rail joiners.  I've made sure all the joints are even with no gaps etc.

The problem with the L class seems to be only at a couple of the Peco curved points.  What it does is the leading axle will ride up slightly once it hits the curve and then when the second bogie hits the curve, the leading wheels on the first bogie will jump up and over the rails.

After some trial and error, I have reduced the occurances by trimming the sanding pipes, but I also noticed, it happens less frequently if I turn the loco around and run it the other end first.  This leads me to think it might be some of the wheels out of guage.  It also only happens when heading into the points from one direction and not the other.  Hope this helps.  I will try and get some photos or a video later on to show as i'm pretty sure my explanations are confusing.

thanks for everyones input so far! Really appreciating it!

I've also ordered an NMRA guage. Its in the mail.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

No quoting of all the post please

(My highlight)

Its two ovals with 22" outdside radius and 18" inside radius.
Mikey308

I believe you can use 22" 2nd radius curves, instead of 18" radius curves.

Mikey, is this one of the points you have: http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/777_1_1005977.html?

We ware uncertain, but I have a feeling it may be an issue with the track.
  2LaGrange Train Controller

Hi guys,

Sorry for the confusion.  I have a 6 x 4 foot layout.  (Unfortunately in a 3 bedroom sharehouse living with two girls who own a LOT of stuff, the shed outside is the only place I could fit a layout for now) Its two ovals with 22" outdside radius and 18" inside radius.  The curves are Atlas and the straights are various flex track.  The points are Peco set track curved points which I believe are 18" radius. (side note the guys at the Auscision stand at Sandown on the weekend where I bought the L class said it will work fine on 18" and larger)

The other loco's I havent had any problems with have been an Austrains H class and a Trainorama 48 class (no longer own it though).
Mikey308
As a previous poster already mentioned Peco set track points are 15" radius not 18" radius so that will be the reason for your loco derailing.

You also mention the only other locos you have run are 48 and H class both are much smaller locos than an L class with shorter distance between bogies and will obviously be able to negotiate 15" radius points.

You stated the loco is able to go around your inside 18" curves so it should get through 18 inch points if you had them.

Auscision have produced a lot of locomotives that have an 18" min recommendation so if there was a design issue it would have been resolved by the time the L class was designed. They even told you at show it would be ok for 18" so your points are too small.
  ARodH Chief Train Controller

Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
Hang on, that sounds like the issue I was having during testing some points I wanted to use, but these were standard Peco setrack points and it wasn't with the loco. It was my rolling stock giving me grief - Austrain PL carriage & SDS FQX wagons. My fix was to replace the setrack points with streamline.

However the points you've used, are they parts ST-244 & ST-245? If they are, many have issues with them as they apparently used a 15" curve to make it work.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Hi guys,

Sorry for the confusion.  I have a 6 x 4 foot layout.  (Unfortunately in a 3 bedroom sharehouse living with two girls who own a LOT of stuff, the shed outside is the only place I could fit a layout for now)
Mikey308

Hmm, you are lucky living with 2 girls! Wink

Question, is the "shed" part of a car garage?

I note Mikey claimed that Auscision Models said it would only be "okay" around 18 in curves.

I still think it's the points he's using.

Mikey, is this an image of the points you're using http://tinyurl.com/jfouvxm?

IF you are, then according to E-Hattons, they are under the minimum radius for that loco.

PS: You'd probably finding the girls "taking" over your layout soon! Very Happy
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

Maybe that's why the L Class was in the bargains bin...          Cool

Paul
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

(Unfortunately in a 3 bedroom sharehouse living with two girls who own a LOT of stuff, the shed outside is the only place I could fit a layout for now)
Mikey308

Hey wait a minute, what do you mean unfortunately? Laughing

I was going to edit my other post, but could someone "please explain" briefly the difference between set track & streamline track?

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