Re Opening & Upgrading Maryborough - Avoca - Ararat

 
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
A question for those in the know, what has to happen with all the level crossing's, when the line speed is increased, does someone have to re calibrate the timing on each one.

The line speed was 25k to start with, then it seems it went to 45-ish and perhaps now 80kph, so the Fruit is quite long at the moment and if the line speed is 80, it's going to fly through a crossing fairly quickly, compared too, if it was doing 25kph.

Does each crossing have a control box and you simply, open the lid and turn a dial to what ever the maximum speed of the line, is ?

BigShunter.
BigShunter
I'd be shocked if they weren't monitored and adjusted remotely these days.  

It's pretty common to find 3G devices inside these sort of things so they can be handled by a control room somewhere.

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  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
A question for those in the know, what has to happen with all the level crossing's, when the line speed is increased, does someone have to re calibrate the timing on each one.

The line speed was 25k to start with, then it seems it went to 45-ish and perhaps now 80kph, so the Fruit is quite long at the moment and if the line speed is 80, it's going to fly through a crossing fairly quickly, compared too, if it was doing 25kph.

Does each crossing have a control box and you simply, open the lid and turn a dial to what ever the maximum speed of the line, is ?

BigShunter.
BigShunter
Modern level crossing control boxes have a component called a 'predictor' inside them that figures out the actual approach speed of the train based on the track circuit or axle counter timings to determine when they need to turn the lights on. So in theory no adjustment is required.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Less than 8 hours on the up from Donald (7:30 pm) to Gheringhap (3:17 am) overnight for the Fruity.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Less than 8 hours on the up from Donald (7:30 pm) to Gheringhap (3:17 am) overnight for the Fruity.
Donald
What does that make total time ex Mildura to the Port?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This has also come through https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/freight-rail-plan-on-track making me wonder if the journey time on SG will be longer than the BG time?  I think probably it will be.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p2136251.htm#2136251
Already being discussed here @bevans. 14 hours currently and down to 10 after all works finished through Ballarat etc.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Ok crew, it's a miracle, a video of the new connection to Maryborough, a great catch Graeme, well done.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr84Bx1MxFc

BigShunter......... still trawling YouTube......Razz
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
And from Grano St. plus a couple of other locations along the line...




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjIKOb0bfN4&feature=youtu.be
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Ok crew, it's a miracle, a video of the new connection to Maryborough, a great catch Graeme, well done.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr84Bx1MxFc

BigShunter......... still trawling YouTube......Razz
BigShunter
That curve is way too tight. It should have been straightened.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

By the way what is the line speed for Ararat to Maryborough? The video shows these trains travelling rather slowly.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Google Earth (not Maps) has also (02/02/19) been updated and shows the Triangle.

I doubt that the curve is an issue speed wise as a stop for safe working is probably required before entering it.

An earlier post mentioned lots of TSR's still in place.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
That curve is way too tight. It should have been straightened.
Duncs
That's a bold statement, after watching a video Duncs or have you been on site to check it out. I find it a bit hard to judge distances and gradients of hills from videos, the zoom of the camera seems to distort the vision. Often when trains are filmed coming up the grade from Dunolly, it looks extremely steep and short but I take it, that's not quite the case.

As for speeds on the line, both Graeme and Greensleeves posted a couple of clips today and showed that the train seemed to be traveling slowly, so I asked this;

Another good one, Graeme, but it's hardly Conrod Straight speed is it, so how much of the line do they actually crank up to 80 kph ?  I've looked at Brads video's too and quite slow moving in those as well.

And the response was;

Ararat and Avoca 40kph there`s lots and lots of 1 in 50s and very tight curves in this entire section not to many straight sections of any length , Avoca to Maryborough only 50 at this stage still some grades of 1 in 43 through to 1 in 80 but a fair bit straighter.

Perhaps Greensleeves or Graeme could give some feed back on the curve, after being there to observe proceedings.

BigShunter.
  mm42 Chief Train Controller

Will the same fate befall the newly standardised Ararat-Maryborough section as in the 1990's when it was first standardised, that it eventually fell into disuse? Once the Maryborough-Ballarat-Geelong section is standardised nearly all the traffic will go the shorter route via Ballarat, except for grain and mineral sands onto the Portland line. The mineral sands traffic finished several years ago, and all the grain seems to be going to Geelong and the Portland line now looks rusty.

The broad gauge freight tracks through Ballarat also look rusty, as if there has been no broad gauge grain from the Manangatang or Sea Lake branches.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Will the same fate befall the newly standardised Ararat-Maryborough section as in the 1990's when it was first standardised, that it eventually fell into disuse? Once the Maryborough-Ballarat-Geelong section is standardised nearly all the traffic will go the shorter route via Ballarat, except for grain and mineral sands onto the Portland line. The mineral sands traffic finished several years ago, and all the grain seems to be going to Geelong and the Portland line now looks rusty.

The broad gauge freight tracks through Ballarat also look rusty, as if there has been no broad gauge grain from the Manangatang or Sea Lake branches.
mm42
One of the goals of the MBP was to encourage competition between the ports of Melbourne, Geelong and Portland to (hopefully) benefit customers (read farmers) so having the "shortcut" to Portland was vital to this.

Mineral Sands from Hopetoun is finished but a new mine is supposed to be starting around Balranald I think and loading going by rail. This was all in the Basin plan although there is some conjecture about if it will eventuate.

Pretty much nothing on the Manang or Sea Lake branches as you say, very bad grain harvest up that way combined with poor track condition  has seen to that.

BG
  hbedriver Assistant Commissioner

Not that a train has been around the Geelong grain loop for months.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
That curve is way too tight. It should have been straightened.
That's a bold statement, after watching a video Duncs or have you been on site to check it out. I find it a bit hard to judge distances and gradients of hills from videos, the zoom of the camera seems to distort the vision. Often when trains are filmed coming up the grade from Dunolly, it looks extremely steep and short but I take it, that's not quite the case.

As for speeds on the line, both Graeme and Greensleeves posted a couple of clips today and showed that the train seemed to be traveling slowly, so I asked this;

Another good one, Graeme, but it's hardly Conrod Straight speed is it, so how much of the line do they actually crank up to 80 kph ?  I've looked at Brads video's too and quite slow moving in those as well.

And the response was;

Ararat and Avoca 40kph there`s lots and lots of 1 in 50s and very tight curves in this entire section not to many straight sections of any length , Avoca to Maryborough only 50 at this stage still some grades of 1 in 43 through to 1 in 80 but a fair bit straighter.

Perhaps Greensleeves or Graeme could give some feed back on the curve, after being there to observe proceedings.

BigShunter.
BigShunter
As Shunter said. the video is a bit deceiving. the curve is about the same as what the existing curve is on the mainline.But in the opposite direction, if that makes any sense.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Not that a train has been around the Geelong grain loop for months.
hbedriver
Id be guessing most of what little grain exists in the region is heading north to NSW for domestic use.  So the rails are polished in other places this year.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Will the same fate befall the newly standardised Ararat-Maryborough section as in the 1990's when it was first standardised, that it eventually fell into disuse? Once the Maryborough-Ballarat-Geelong section is standardised nearly all the traffic will go the shorter route via Ballarat, except for grain and mineral sands onto the Portland line. The mineral sands traffic finished several years ago, and all the grain seems to be going to Geelong and the Portland line now looks rusty.

The broad gauge freight tracks through Ballarat also look rusty, as if there has been no broad gauge grain from the Manangatang or Sea Lake branches.
One of the goals of the MBP was to encourage competition between the ports of Melbourne, Geelong and Portland to (hopefully) benefit customers (read farmers) so having the "shortcut" to Portland was vital to this.

Mineral Sands from Hopetoun is finished but a new mine is supposed to be starting around Balranald I think and loading going by rail. This was all in the Basin plan although there is some conjecture about if it will eventuate.

Pretty much nothing on the Manang or Sea Lake branches as you say, very bad grain harvest up that way combined with poor track condition  has seen to that.

BG
BrentonGolding
For Portland - that branch needs to be upgraded to the same TAL if the competition is going to be fully put in place.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Will the same fate befall the newly standardised Ararat-Maryborough section as in the 1990's when it was first standardised, that it eventually fell into disuse? Once the Maryborough-Ballarat-Geelong section is standardised nearly all the traffic will go the shorter route via Ballarat, except for grain and mineral sands onto the Portland line. The mineral sands traffic finished several years ago, and all the grain seems to be going to Geelong and the Portland line now looks rusty.
One of the goals of the MBP was to encourage competition between the ports of Melbourne, Geelong and Portland to (hopefully) benefit customers (read farmers) so having the "shortcut" to Portland was vital to this.
For Portland - that branch needs to be upgraded to the same TAL if the competition is going to be fully put in place.
james.au
Which I seriously doubt will happen given the state government couldn't find the money to upgrade Warrnambool to Class 2M. It's becoming increasingly clear they're reluctant to spend too much money outside Melbourne when the economic and political benefits are minimal, as they are here.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Will the same fate befall the newly standardised Ararat-Maryborough section as in the 1990's when it was first standardised, that it eventually fell into disuse? Once the Maryborough-Ballarat-Geelong section is standardised nearly all the traffic will go the shorter route via Ballarat, except for grain and mineral sands onto the Portland line. The mineral sands traffic finished several years ago, and all the grain seems to be going to Geelong and the Portland line now looks rusty.
One of the goals of the MBP was to encourage competition between the ports of Melbourne, Geelong and Portland to (hopefully) benefit customers (read farmers) so having the "shortcut" to Portland was vital to this.
For Portland - that branch needs to be upgraded to the same TAL if the competition is going to be fully put in place.
james.au
Which I seriously doubt will happen given the state government couldn't find the money to upgrade Warrnambool to Class 2M. It's becoming increasingly clear they're reluctant to spend too much money outside Melbourne when the economic and political benefits are minimal, as they are here.
  Andrewdr Locomotive Fireman

Not that a train has been around the Geelong grain loop for months.
hbedriver
Might that be because Geelong has become more grain import port this season rather than export?
  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
Not that a train has been around the Geelong grain loop for months.
Id be guessing most of what little grain exists in the region is heading north to NSW for domestic use.  So the rails are polished in other places this year.
james.au
Add to that the fact that the 'C' Box Abolition Program has been underway since late January and no trains have been permitted beyond Anakie Rd on the B/G on the Up nor towards Separation St from off of the Geelong Line on the Down.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

That curve is way too tight. It should have been straightened.
That's a bold statement, after watching a video Duncs or have you been on site to check it out. I find it a bit hard to judge distances and gradients of hills from videos, the zoom of the camera seems to distort the vision. Often when trains are filmed coming up the grade from Dunolly, it looks extremely steep and short but I take it, that's not quite the case.

As for speeds on the line, both Graeme and Greensleeves posted a couple of clips today and showed that the train seemed to be traveling slowly, so I asked this;

Another good one, Graeme, but it's hardly Conrod Straight speed is it, so how much of the line do they actually crank up to 80 kph ?  I've looked at Brads video's too and quite slow moving in those as well.

And the response was;

Ararat and Avoca 40kph there`s lots and lots of 1 in 50s and very tight curves in this entire section not to many straight sections of any length , Avoca to Maryborough only 50 at this stage still some grades of 1 in 43 through to 1 in 80 but a fair bit straighter.

Perhaps Greensleeves or Graeme could give some feed back on the curve, after being there to observe proceedings.

BigShunter.
As Shunter said. the video is a bit deceiving. the curve is about the same as what the existing curve is on the mainline.But in the opposite direction, if that makes any sense.
wobert
Yes it does thank you. Also thanks for pointing out the gradients and curves so the line speed is slower that I though.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Add to that the fact that the 'C' Box Abolition Program has been underway since late January and no trains have been permitted beyond Anakie Rd on the B/G on the Up nor towards Separation St from off of the Geelong Line on the Down.
Jack Le Lievre

There is a rumour going around that a train will head to the Grain Loop on Tuesday following reopening of the section under Special Instructions. No idea of veracity though.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Add to that the fact that the 'C' Box Abolition Program has been underway since late January and no trains have been permitted beyond Anakie Rd on the B/G on the Up nor towards Separation St from off of the Geelong Line on the Down.

There is a rumour going around that a train will head to the Grain Loop on Tuesday following reopening of the section under Special Instructions. No idea of veracity though.
potatoinmymouth
The hand signalman protection at Thompsons Road level crossing was removed some days ago , so presumably the Safety Investigation has identified the cause of the wrong side failure with The Down Overdue back in January . At that time it is understood that Victrack stopped all work on the de-commissioning of North "C" Box . Not known if it has resumed, but there is no grain moving on the grain loop on either gauge for weeks, with all three rails quite rusted .

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