3801 Boiler and it's return to operation

 
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
All steam locomotives will have some problems throughout their whole life, 6029 broke down at Revesby a few years ago due to problems far worse that what 3801 has and it still remains in service

The whole debacle relating to the treatment of 3801 and 3830 is a rail museum's nightmare but does not compare in any way to the ignorance shown to the items at Broadmeadow or to the absolutely horrific treatment that 5711 has been given over the past 40 years
Or Dorrigo, but I digress.

I never knew 6029 had worse problems than 3801 is having right now. Btw, how do you know the extent of 3801's issues? It's never been stated anywhere recently.
FMAChet
3801 has several boiler issues, none are publicly known, the problem with 6029 was a large mechanical problem that took several months to fix

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  FMAChet Station Staff

All steam locomotives will have some problems throughout their whole life, 6029 broke down at Revesby a few years ago due to problems far worse that what 3801 has and it still remains in service

The whole debacle relating to the treatment of 3801 and 3830 is a rail museum's nightmare but does not compare in any way to the ignorance shown to the items at Broadmeadow or to the absolutely horrific treatment that 5711 has been given over the past 40 years
Or Dorrigo, but I digress.

I never knew 6029 had worse problems than 3801 is having right now. Btw, how do you know the extent of 3801's issues? It's never been stated anywhere recently.
3801 has several boiler issues, none are publicly known, the problem with 6029 was a large mechanical problem that took several months to fix
DCook
Right, and you claimed that these issues are nothing to worry about?

Again, sorry about if I'm making a big deal, just that it would be disheartening if 3801 would need to have another lengthy absence to get her running, months after she was overhauled.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
All steam locomotives will have some problems throughout their whole life, 6029 broke down at Revesby a few years ago due to problems far worse that what 3801 has and it still remains in service

The whole debacle relating to the treatment of 3801 and 3830 is a rail museum's nightmare but does not compare in any way to the ignorance shown to the items at Broadmeadow or to the absolutely horrific treatment that 5711 has been given over the past 40 years
Or Dorrigo, but I digress.

I never knew 6029 had worse problems than 3801 is having right now. Btw, how do you know the extent of 3801's issues? It's never been stated anywhere recently.
3801 has several boiler issues, none are publicly known, the problem with 6029 was a large mechanical problem that took several months to fix
Right, and you claimed that these issues are nothing to worry about?

Again, sorry about if I'm making a big deal, just that it would be disheartening if 3801 would need to have another lengthy absence to get her running, months after she was overhauled.
FMAChet
Please quote where I stated that they were nothing to worry about

I understand your concern but I highly doubt that anything more than a boiler lift will be needed
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

All steam locomotives will have some problems throughout their whole life, 6029 broke down at Revesby a few years ago due to problems far worse that what 3801 has and it still remains in service

The whole debacle relating to the treatment of 3801 and 3830 is a rail museum's nightmare but does not compare in any way to the ignorance shown to the items at Broadmeadow or to the absolutely horrific treatment that 5711 has been given over the past 40 years
Or Dorrigo, but I digress.

I never knew 6029 had worse problems than 3801 is having right now. Btw, how do you know the extent of 3801's issues? It's never been stated anywhere recently.
3801 has several boiler issues, none are publicly known, the problem with 6029 was a large mechanical problem that took several months to fix
Right, and you claimed that these issues are nothing to worry about?

Again, sorry about if I'm making a big deal, just that it would be disheartening if 3801 would need to have another lengthy absence to get her running, months after she was overhauled.
Please quote where I stated that they were nothing to worry about

I understand your concern but I highly doubt that anything more than a boiler lift will be needed
DCook
Hmm,  anything more than a boiler lift, it is not an insignificant operation.
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
All steam locomotives will have some problems throughout their whole life, 6029 broke down at Revesby a few years ago due to problems far worse that what 3801 has and it still remains in service

The whole debacle relating to the treatment of 3801 and 3830 is a rail museum's nightmare but does not compare in any way to the ignorance shown to the items at Broadmeadow or to the absolutely horrific treatment that 5711 has been given over the past 40 years
Or Dorrigo, but I digress.

I never knew 6029 had worse problems than 3801 is having right now. Btw, how do you know the extent of 3801's issues? It's never been stated anywhere recently.
3801 has several boiler issues, none are publicly known, the problem with 6029 was a large mechanical problem that took several months to fix
DCook
That is not true about 6029. 6029 failed at Revesby with a hot bearing Fireman's Side front unit. That happened on the saturday arvo, Monday 6029 steamed back to Canberra with 3016. 6029's problem at Revesby is pretty minor compared to whats happening now.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
All steam locomotives will have some problems throughout their whole life, 6029 broke down at Revesby a few years ago due to problems far worse that what 3801 has and it still remains in service

The whole debacle relating to the treatment of 3801 and 3830 is a rail museum's nightmare but does not compare in any way to the ignorance shown to the items at Broadmeadow or to the absolutely horrific treatment that 5711 has been given over the past 40 years
Or Dorrigo, but I digress.

I never knew 6029 had worse problems than 3801 is having right now. Btw, how do you know the extent of 3801's issues? It's never been stated anywhere recently.
3801 has several boiler issues, none are publicly known, the problem with 6029 was a large mechanical problem that took several months to fix
That is not true about 6029. 6029 failed at Revesby with a hot bearing Fireman's Side front unit. That happened on the saturday arvo, Monday 6029 steamed back to Canberra with 3016. 6029's problem at Revesby is pretty minor compared to whats happening now.
LowndesJ515
And the bearings were available as off-the-shelf replacements.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Thanks for the clarification about 6029, I must have been confusing the breakdown with the much later tubeplate problem

My point still stands, I highly doubt that the problems are major
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
The bearing that failed at Revesby was not off the shelf. The bearing that failed at Goulburn in Aug 16 was off the shelf.
  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

The bearing that failed at Revesby was not off the shelf. The bearing that failed at Goulburn in Aug 16 was off the shelf.
LowndesJ515
'Off the shelf' needs some clarification. Large bearings, especially those in imperial sizes, such as those used on locomotive driving axles are not normally kept 'in stock' in Australia. They are however kept 'in stock' in Singapore and available to major Australian cities within 24 hours via airfreight. Most users of these bearings will assess whether they need to keep one in stock for themselves or take the risk of the 24 hour delay. Some companies will combine to keep critical bearings available from a suitable company store. For those operating the 60 and 38 class reliance on the Singapore stock would be all that was needed.
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
The bearing that failed at Revesby was not off the shelf. The bearing that failed at Goulburn in Aug 16 was off the shelf.
'Off the shelf' needs some clarification. Large bearings, especially those in imperial sizes, such as those used on locomotive driving axles are not normally kept 'in stock' in Australia. They are however kept 'in stock' in Singapore and available to major Australian cities within 24 hours via airfreight. Most users of these bearings will assess whether they need to keep one in stock for themselves or take the risk of the 24 hour delay. Some companies will combine to keep critical bearings available from a suitable company store. For those operating the 60 and 38 class reliance on the Singapore stock would be all that was needed.
neillfarmer
Order placed for bearings and arrived from Sydney to Canberra in a few days.
  FMAChet Station Staff

Apparently, someone on the THNSW's video of the 50th anniversary of the Western Endeavour stated that 3801 has leaking boiler tubes.

So much for this not being a serious problem... Just great...
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Apparently, someone on the THNSW's video of the 50th anniversary of the Western Endeavour stated that 3801 has leaking boiler tubes.

So much for this not being a serious problem... Just great...
FMAChet
I did not think it would be serious after a 5 year boiler rebuild

Leaky boiler tubes are one of the most common problems with steam locos, the hardest part is preparing the boiler for the tubes to be removed

I find your last statement to be immensely ignorant, 3801 was retired in 2007 because the firebox was practically destroyed after 20 years of use combined with the modifications made in 1985

The whole overhaul was on the firebox which was a massive task involving the complete rebuild of the firebox. This problem is with the boiler tubes and NOT the firebox

Two things could be the problem, the welds holding the tubes in could be defective or the tubes themselves could be defective (inferior quality)

I am going to guess that the welds are the problem
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
'..... has leaking boiler tubes .... '
Not normally necessary to remove the boiler from the frame to fix leaking tubes. ???? Is there more to this ??????

Given, however, that the keywords to this thread are 3801, boiler and NSW who knows?
  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

Leaking Boiler Tubes are not necessarily a serious problem. However the reason for the leaks needs to be found and until this is known all is just speculation. For example; Expanding tubes into the tube plate is more art than science and is a delicate procedure, expand too much and the steel around the tube hole is hardened and distorted, not enough and it will leak. There are other causes for tube leaks but until more is known I would not jump to any conclusions.
As a general comment the boilers of locomotives in preservation are subjected to stresses from more frequent heating and cooling after each outing. In regular service the boiler was generally kept hot between runs. This led the CR to change the pattern from relay working on the Trans to servicing the locomotive at each depot meaning that the same locomotive did the entire trip and was kept hot for the whole time. This reduced boiler problems considerably. Of course, in preservation it is not practicable to keep a locomotive hot for a week or much longer before its next use. (On the NSWGR the turnarounds were generally only hours long, on the CR it was the next day or so).
  a6et Minister for Railways

Leaking Boiler Tubes are not necessarily a serious problem. However the reason for the leaks needs to be found and until this is known all is just speculation. For example; Expanding tubes into the tube plate is more art than science and is a delicate procedure, expand too much and the steel around the tube hole is hardened and distorted, not enough and it will leak. There are other causes for tube leaks but until more is known I would not jump to any conclusions.
As a general comment the boilers of locomotives in preservation are subjected to stresses from more frequent heating and cooling after each outing. In regular service the boiler was generally kept hot between runs. This led the CR to change the pattern from relay working on the Trans to servicing the locomotive at each depot meaning that the same locomotive did the entire trip and was kept hot for the whole time. This reduced boiler problems considerably. Of course, in preservation it is not practicable to keep a locomotive hot for a week or much longer before its next use. (On the NSWGR the turnarounds were generally only hours long, on the CR it was the next day or so).
neillfarmer
You are correct in each case Neil, certainly it may be a small issue or more, given that 01 has not had a great deal of running following its RTS, and most with in many respects light loads even in the load trials, the boiler is pretty much in running in condition as far as the boiler is concerned, the aspect of how long prior to each run and after such runs is the loco in readiness as such with fire lit, and engine in steam, even light steam.

If one goes back to steam days & using Enfield as an example weekends generally had little steam working after noon on Saturday and until late night on Sundays. As early as Friday nights as engines came into the depot, the fires were dropped and not lit up until the Sunday afternoons & generally late afternoons.  Once the program was put up on the board outside the chargemans office, and the shed crews, and fire lighters came in from 1400 the engines were readied and the light ups generally started around the 1700 mark or earlier depending on when needed. Usually 3 hours between the lighting up of the loco's was had to ensure they were ready for preperation another 1hour & then to the Whistle out point and water taken.

It was not uncommon to find engines with leaks in the fireboxes but fitters were there to ok them and in most cases as the boiler heated up and steam was raised, the leaks disappeared as the heat increases had the respective issue fixed by heat expansion, not always though, and in bad cases it was seen by how much water was showing in the gauge glasses, when stabling the were required to be at least 3/4 full in the glass.
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
How about everyone just waits for something official from THNSW, if they even do release something. At the moment, its all just speculation and thats all its going to be.

When Rona buggers off and operations start again, the giant dildo will be out and about again rest assured. Until then, you aren't missing out on anything as nothing is currently running anyway.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
The real question is when will this pandemic end and what does the future hold for these societies, how many will collapse in the aftermath

2020 was building up to be one of the greatest years in NSW rail heritage with the 3801 relaunch, the R766 relaunch, the return to service of 3001, the start of Chullora Heritage Hub, the start of a proper 5711 restoration and the reopening of Zig Zag. All of these have now been postponed indefinitely due to this pandemic and bushfires
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
How about everyone just waits for something official from THNSW, if they even do release something. At the moment, its all just speculation and that’s all its going to be.
"lowndesJ515"


Well said, Lowndes; I couldn't have put it better myself.  
Speculation and rumour is endemic to rail preservation. Many years ago I was secretary of a preservation group and received a phone call one evening from a fairly well known gunzel. "Rumours are rife", he said, almost gleefully; "apparently loco no xxx has failed its roadworthy exam."
I congratulated him on his foresight, given that the roadworthy exam hadn't happened, and was not due until the following Wednesday.

I wish I knew why so many people who basically know nothing, persist in putting out rubbish.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
I wish I knew why so many people who basically know nothing, persist in putting out rubbish.
Valvegear
Comfort noise to fill the void.
  BigBrother Beginner

I wish I knew why so many people who basically know nothing, persist in putting out rubbish.
Valvegear


The most positive and constructive comment to ever be posted on fail-page let alone this topic.
Thank you for the much needed 'boot up backside' to those who know who they are!
  ssaunders Train Controller

3801 to be out on the main south 6 days next week. Moss Vale and Goulburn as destinations.

ss
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
3801 to be out on the main south 6 days next week. Moss Vale and Goulburn as destinations.

ss
ssaunders
Starting 22nd September Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday & Sunday.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Starting 22nd September Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday & Sunday.
"LowndesJ515"
Any update available please?
  steamfreak Assistant Commissioner

Location: Wodonga, VIC
Starting 22nd September Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday & Sunday.
Any update available please?
Valvegear

From the NSW Rai Museum Facebook Page 23 Sep 2020:

LOCOMOTIVE 3801 UPDATE
Thank you everyone for your overwhelming support and messages of congratulations to the team and crew as we continue to test locomotive 3801 on the main south each day.

Following a successful second day of crew training and testing, 3801 will operate a third trip tomorrow, this time from Picton to Moss Vale only and return.

THURSDAY 24 SEPTEMBER TIMETABLE
The below times are indicative only and subject to change without notice:
Thirlmere 0540
Picton 0605-0620
Moss Vale 0737-0930
Picton 1020-1030
Thirlmere 1055

⚠️SAFETY FIRST
If you intend on catching a glimpse of 3801, please remember to maintain social distancing, stand behind the yellow line at stations and remain only in publicly accessible areas, clear of the rail corridor.
  Bevan Wall Deputy Commissioner


With sunny, cold and windy conditions ideal for creating awesome swirling atmospheric steam effects I could not resist a chase of 3801 south this morning.
Enjoy,
BW


https://youtu.be/lM2mfoGGfdU

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