The government also announced extra Warrnambool & Shepparton service , which will further stretch the BG N set fleet.
The original ARTC track upgrade and standardization was supposed to achieve a track standard allowing loco hauled operation of the sg N sets at 130 kmh . The carriage bogies were modified, and several N class locos regeared to allow 130 kmh running .Post Script, the above is purely based on machine performance, there is no allowence for opposing traffic or build out time.Thanks Woodford
Note: 160kph running would have little effect due to the very many short sections between stops.
woodford
So we now have a time of 3hours 20 minutes SCS to Albury. At present it can be as much as 3 hours 45 - 50 minutes. So a 25 -30 minute time saving. Impressive!
I agree with your reasons on why the 160kph top speed would be problematic, and that you would have calculated based on a 130 kph top speed. Having said that, is their any possibility of squeezing an extra 10 kph in a few places, so the top speed becomes 140kph?
Duncs
Thinking back over a number of threads its is clear most do not understand how much power is required to maintain speed on a grade, so I will give some idea so a better understanding can be had of the problem.Yes, very clear Woodford. Thank you for that.
A 400ton train (say a 6 car Vlocity completely full) will take around 2000bhp just to maintain 130kph on a 1 in 100 grade, it would take around another 800BHP to over come rolling and air resistance. For a loco like an N this latter (rolling and air resistance) would take around 1200bhp. So a VLocity would take around 2800-3000bhp on a 1 in 100 and an N class and N set around 3200-3400bhp on the same grade.
The power required to ascend a grade is nearly directly proportional to velocity.
It is also worth while to understand if one wishs for the train to accelerate under these conditions even more power is required
Note 1: This is wheel rim HP, ie BHP at the wheel rims, for an N class this is around 2000bhp (Note 2), for the Vlocity's its between 450 to 600BHP per car depending on exactly how fast it is going.
Note 2: The actual traction power availible to a DE loco depends on what else is running in the loco, such as coolling fans. air compressors and the Auxilary altenator all these can take another 200 to 300BHP.
Is this clear?
woodford
Shepparton could be complicated, especially if there are longer term plans for its standardisation. Though the new fleet would have SG and BG variants, so maybe not such a problem. It would just have different stopping patterns between SCS and SEY.Shepparton standardisation is likely far enough out to not worry about that. By the time it's occurred V/Line might decide to get an extra couple of XPT Replacement sets to run on it in addition to Albury services instead of worrying about splitting the Vlocity fleet.
Response to woodford. Based on the funding that's been specifically allocated in the latest budget to undertake a fairly intensive makeover of the NE standard gauge passenger fleet, I would say that there has already been a lot of work undertaken since the change in V/Line CEO and other management to sorting out maintenance and this I know will feature very strong in the Government through PTV's review of V/Line operations. I also know that a number of key "old guys" (I'm an oldie so happy to use that phrase), who have highly regarded reputations in both operations and maintenance have also had fairly significant involvement in providing advice on these matters which I believe is being heard and will be acted on. Whether it extends to the type of scenario I outlined in my post for what I believe is the fix for the next few years of NE operations I'm not sure but all I can say is I've been communicating such through various contacts.
As I mentioned in my post, setting up a sustainable operations and maintenance regime for the existing operation is as critical if not more critical for the next generation of InterCity train. The vehicles will be sophisticated vehicles. Whilst the scale of the operations for the interurban/commuter operations for V/Lines V'Locity operations are significantly larger, they are supported by maintenance and servicing facilities at West Melbourne, Ballarat and Bendigo, with Waurn Ponds also to come on stream. To expect that you could manage the NE Operation solely out of Dynon using a "flying gang" to service the NE sets is totally crazy when you have a well regarded rollingstock Maintainer in GEMCO sitting next door who could provide you with the focus and priority needed to get this operation back where it should be.
Just by way of information I have done now a number of runs from Broadmedows to seymour on my mathematical sim, a couple of calibration runs using a N class pulling 5 cars and a power van produced exactly the same times as currently. Running a VLocity style 6 car train produced a 3 to 4 minutes time saving depending on how close one follows the speed limits (Note 1).So allowing for this a DMU Vlocity with only the stop at Broadmeadows, can do SCS to Seymour in 1 hour 10 minutes. Does this sound accurate?
Note 1: I believe there is currently a speed limit on the goulburn river bridge if one ignores that one can save another minute, otherwise the time saved is only 3 minutes.
Reason why time saved is so small is north of Wallan the line is very undulating (apart from 3 100KPH curves), one can easily reach 130kph down hill but the upgrades slow the train down, a VLocity only having enough power to climb these at 100kph, as a consequence the average speed between Wallan and Seymour is only around 115kph.
Note 2: I am genuinely surprised at how good the current N class sets handle this section, there average is just under 100kph, inpite of the fact the DMU has nearly double the BHP per ton there average is 107kph, Probably just as well all the grades are so short. For this though the speed limited curves are a real problem as all trains must slow for these, there are two things, the loco hauled set does not have to slow as much so the curves effect them less. The other point is the following grades prevent even the DMU from accelerating back up to 130kph untill one reachs the next down grade.
Its also worth remembering that from Craigeburn to Seymour is a relatively short distance, this does limit the amount of time one can actually save to only around 8 minutes, so the time saved by the DMU is no mean acomplishment.
woodford
The 1205 does this in a time of 1:14, my feeling is that for a DMU 1:10 may just be "a bridge a little to far", 1:11 is likely to be OK,everything would have to go right though.Just by way of information I have done now a number of runs from Broadmedows to seymour on my mathematical sim, a couple of calibration runs using a N class pulling 5 cars and a power van produced exactly the same times as currently. Running a VLocity style 6 car train produced a 3 to 4 minutes time saving depending on how close one follows the speed limits (Note 1).So allowing for this a DMU Vlocity with only the stop at Broadmeadows, can do SCS to Seymour in 1 hour 10 minutes. Does this sound accurate?
Note 1: I believe there is currently a speed limit on the goulburn river bridge if one ignores that one can save another minute, otherwise the time saved is only 3 minutes.
Reason why time saved is so small is north of Wallan the line is very undulating (apart from 3 100KPH curves), one can easily reach 130kph down hill but the upgrades slow the train down, a VLocity only having enough power to climb these at 100kph, as a consequence the average speed between Wallan and Seymour is only around 115kph.
Note 2: I am genuinely surprised at how good the current N class sets handle this section, there average is just under 100kph, inpite of the fact the DMU has nearly double the BHP per ton there average is 107kph, Probably just as well all the grades are so short. For this though the speed limited curves are a real problem as all trains must slow for these, there are two things, the loco hauled set does not have to slow as much so the curves effect them less. The other point is the following grades prevent even the DMU from accelerating back up to 130kph untill one reachs the next down grade.
Its also worth remembering that from Craigeburn to Seymour is a relatively short distance, this does limit the amount of time one can actually save to only around 8 minutes, so the time saved by the DMU is no mean acomplishment.
woodford
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