Baxter Electrification

 
  blowfish Junior Train Controller

Anthony Albanese (and Labor) announced a federal election promise today:

An elected Labor Government will provide $1.5 million federal funding for a business case to enable the full duplication and electrification of the rail line to Baxter to proceed.

This vital project will be a game-changer for the whole region, and will entrench Frankston’s position as a new centre for jobs and growth.

The project will enhance access to services, jobs and opportunities for the residents of Frankston South, Langwarrin and Baxter, and support wider regional growth.

It will build on the Frankston Station Upgrade to unlock development potential and support the growth of key local institutions such as Monash University Peninsula Campus.

The funding will provide for the development of a full business case which can be submitted to Infrastructure Australia, consistent with Labor’s existing approach.

Labor’s partnership with the Andrews State Government in investing in the region is in sharp contrast to the Liberals’ approach of criticizing from the sidelines.

This week’s Federal Budget saw Victorians being further punished by the Coalition for voting Labor at the last election, with the state to receive just 9% of total federal infrastructure funding in this Budget despite accounting for 25% of the population.

This comes on top of last week’s attempt by the Coalition to seek re-election on the basis of returning less than one third of Labor’s original $3 billion commitment to the Melbourne Metro, with funding taken from the Asset Recycling Fund.
Dunkley is not even mentioned in the Liberals’ infrastructure plans for Victoria.

People in Dunkley know that the only way they will receive their fair share of federal infrastructure funding, including for the Melbourne Metro and the Baxter Electrification, is under a Federal Labor Government.

Source: http://anthonyalbanese.com.au/labor-backs-baxter-electrification

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  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
It seems like the Government is re-doing the timeline set out in PTV's Network Development Plan.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
It makes sense in terms of moving the stabling from Frankston to Baxter, and it's also relocating the terminus to where the growth is further down the peninsula... but it's a really, really long haul into the city from there (2+ hour train trip on a Siemens/Xtrap?), much longer than people who commute from Geelong or Ballarat.
  shaun001 Station Master

The travel time from the city to Frankston is about an hour. Baxter is only 7km further down the line.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
It makes sense. Land has apparently been set aside for a stabling facility in between the triangle formed by the existing Stony Point Line and the old Mornington Line. The level crossing at Baxter was relaid with concrete sleepers (for the Mornington Line as well for some reason). What it could allow for is:
- Closure of sidings at Mordialloc & Carrum which would help facilitate level crossing removal.
- Closure of sidings at Frankston which means an independent Stony Point platform could be built - a real platform 3.
- Obviously duplication would mean elimination of several level crossings especially the Moorooduc Rd crossing adjacent to Monash Uni.
- Rebuilding of Leawarra & Baxter stations. Leawarra could be moved closer to Moorooduc Rd so that it better services Monash Uni and the shopping centre on the opposite side as well as linking up with local bus routes.  Baxter will be rebuilt and could possibly include a third platform to cater for the Mornington Railway tourist service.
- Possibly a restatement (and rebuild) of Langwarrin Station.

These are only my thoughts but I believe that this is a good project and one that could open up all sorts of new transport and linking opportunities.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The travel time from the city to Frankston is about an hour. Baxter is only 7km further down the line.
shaun001
It will still be comparable in time to Geelong/Ballarat. Should we really be encouraging the sprawl further down the Peninsula? Then again, sprawl is probably the least of Melbourne's problems in the coming years...
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
$1.5million for a business case is chicken feed. No doubt the business case will find their is justification for it, but not needed immedietly, or something along those lines anyway.

I could probably think of a dozen more pressing projects for the Melbourne and Victorian networks.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Just build it!
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Get on with it agreed and do it properly all the way to stony point because anything less does not make sense.
  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
It makes sense. Land has apparently been set aside for a stabling facility in between the triangle formed by the existing Stony Point Line and the old Mornington Line. The level crossing at Baxter was relaid with concrete sleepers (for the Mornington Line as well for some reason). What it could allow for is:
- Closure of sidings at Mordialloc & Carrum which would help facilitate level crossing removal.
- Closure of sidings at Frankston which means an independent Stony Point platform could be built - a real platform 3.
- Obviously duplication would mean elimination of several level crossings especially the Moorooduc Rd crossing adjacent to Monash Uni.
- Rebuilding of Leawarra & Baxter stations. Leawarra could be moved closer to Moorooduc Rd so that it better services Monash Uni and the shopping centre on the opposite side as well as linking up with local bus routes.  Baxter will be rebuilt and could possibly include a third platform to cater for the Mornington Railway tourist service.
- Possibly a restatement (and rebuild) of Langwarrin Station.

These are only my thoughts but I believe that this is a good project and one that could open up all sorts of new transport and linking opportunities.
jdekorte

I agree that there would be a number of benefits that would come from this project by way of relocating the existing stabling away from Frankston, Carrum and Mordialloc.

The question would be however is what would become of the rest of the Stony Point Line?  Would there still be a diesel service operating along the rest of the route and would it still run through to Frankston, or would you have to change at Baxter?

The existing frequency on the Stony Point Line is appalling which is probably why relatively few people use it.  Reducing the length of the single track section means that theoretically trains could run at greater frequency.  However what is really needed is an intermediate passing loop so that frequency could double.  Perhaps that could become part of the business case.

Ross
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
It makes sense in terms of moving the stabling from Frankston to Baxter, and it's also relocating the terminus to where the growth is further down the peninsula... but it's a really, really long haul into the city from there (2+ hour train trip on a Siemens/Xtrap?), much longer than people who commute from Geelong or Ballarat.
"don_dunstan"


People put up with Comengs and even Hitachis to Warragul in the 90s, so why not? I still think ripping up the overhead to Warragul/Traralgon was a stupid thing to do, instead we have gone backwards to diesels while Adelaide and even Auckland have done the exact opposite and put up the wires (yes, New Zealand is now one step ahead of Australia!). If regional Victoria had modern interurban electric trains the diesel fumes at Southern Cross (mentioned in another thread) wouldn't even be an issue; the odd diesel-hauled service wouldn't even matter. It's hard to believe the Harris trains are still running after all these years, albeit sandwiched between two P classes more often than not. Of course, it's still a step up from what they would have become, most likely more gutless Grey Ghosts still running to places like Sandringham, Williamstown, Alamein and other short trips.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
People put up with Comengs and even Hitachis to Warragul in the 90s, so why not?
Heihachi_73
Was there ever actually a Hitachi to Warragul?

Melbourne is experiencing big problems associated with its exponential growth - I don't believe that simply moving the urban areas further out is going to help. You're condemning people to longer and longer interurban hauls by train, heavily subsidised by taxpayers - and you're simultaneously ruining some of the best agricultural land we have by covering it with sprawl.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
According to very old posts on the 'Page, yes, the odd Hitachi did venture down there, although it was supposed to only be Comeng sets beyond Pakenham. Wish there was a photo of when a silver (allegedly) rolled from the Lilydale sidings half way to Coldstream in the 70s, the handbrake not being applied...
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
According to very old posts on the 'Page, yes, the odd Hitachi did venture down there, although it was supposed to only be Comeng sets beyond Pakenham. Wish there was a photo of when a silver (allegedly) rolled from the Lilydale sidings half way to Coldstream in the 70s, the handbrake not being applied...
Heihachi_73
I recall that incident when it was on the news - I think it was actually in the 90's when vandals released the handbrake on a Hitachi and it rolled a substantial couple of kilometres toward Coldstream (in the days when train stabling wasn't as closely secured as it is now).
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Get on with it agreed and do it properly all the way to stony point because anything less does not make sense.
freightgate

Electrifying only to Baxter will see sprinters or whatever they use on the line now to Stony Point continue to be required.  Not sure of the distance but why not as suggested extend to Stony Point and get the job done.  If Baxter becomes the terminus then what will the timetable for Stony Point look like?

Will Stony Point services then terminate at Baxter or will then continue to use Frankston?

Did Stony Point services ever run from/to Flinders Street?
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

The stony point services did indeed run from Flinders St and return, way back when the old Tait Dog Boxes would run a Sunday service with a combine Mornington service ( similar to Healesville?Warburton) plenty of film footage available for both trains. Also when the Stony point service was re-instated in the mid 1980's, a Sunday haled Diesel service originated from Flinders St to Stony Point, this in turn would form a return Frankston?Stony Point service and later on  a Service to Flinders St.    This Sunday train was a favourite of mine, I did it quited often , it left Flinders St at 9.30am and stopped to pick up only at Caufield then express to Frankston, then stopping all Stations to Stony Point.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Melbourne is experiencing big problems associated with its exponential growth - I don't believe that simply moving the urban areas further out is going to help. You're condemning people to longer and longer interurban hauls by train, heavily subsidised by taxpayers - and you're simultaneously ruining some of the best agricultural land we have by covering it with sprawl.
don_dunstan
Yes If they have to build urban sprawl, build It out Rockbank - Melton and up towards Diggers Rest where the land Is rather poor quality farming land.

Though the Werribee and Lerderderg Valley must be protected from urban development
(The land along The Avenue of Honour coming In to Bacchus Marsh Is like an oasis compered to land East and West of there.
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Urban spraw east has destroyed most of Mebournes quality growing land. We're stupidly still doing it. Most of it out west is utter crap filled with rocks. Aside from a lack of services out there, no one likes driving to/from work in the city with the sun in their eyes. Pity urban sprawl wasnt taxed in favour of putting houses on crap ground you cant grow much in, but instead we concreted our market gardens in the SE suburbs.
Not that theyre the same, but we're having this discussion re Stony Point, well we could certainly take a leaf out of NSW book on Electrification.

Regards
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Urban spraw east has destroyed most of Mebournes quality growing land. We're stupidly still doing it.
davesvline
The problem is that population growth has become the primary engine for the Victorian economy - which is completely perverse and defies all logic. There's no way it can last, I can't think of any other nation in the world that has successfully continued to run an economy on borrowing money to build houses.

And yes, some of the best agricultural land in Victoria has been subsumed by urban mass, particularly in the eastern suburbs. The real issue is the enormity of the Melbourne urban footprint - it's over 100km from Drouin to Melton and yet it takes longer and longer to get around. There's some severe planning issues for Melbourne emerging and they simply can't be solved, even with billions and billions of dollars on road and rail infrastructure. Things like Melbourne Metro and extensions to the urban rail network on the fringes will certainly help but they won't come anywhere near solving the underlying problems.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
And yes, some of the best agricultural land in Victoria has been subsumed by urban mass, particularly in the eastern suburbs. The real issue is the enormity of the Melbourne urban footprint - it's over 100km from Drouin to Melton and yet it takes longer and longer to get around. There's some severe planning issues for Melbourne emerging and they simply can't be solved, even with billions and billions of dollars on road and rail infrastructure. Things like Melbourne Metro and extensions to the urban rail network on the fringes will certainly help but they won't come anywhere near solving the underlying problems.
don_dunstan
You would have to leave the Yarra Valley out of that.  Plenty of agricultural land north of Coldstream (the pong of cabbage can get quite overpowering), extensive vineyards and orchards, and strict environmental controls mean that townships such as Yarra Glen have a defined boundary, beyond which housing development cannot occur.  As a result, there is limited population growth.  It is one fringe area where the urban rail network is definitely not being extended, on the contrary.
  hot-axle-box Junior Train Controller

It's more a matter of when it's going to be built.....and it needs to be built. They want to spend 50 million to make the Frankston station precinct more "bootiful" which is a disgusting waste of money until the track layout is changed and the existing mechanical interlocking has been changed to CBI and controlled from Baxter.  The Peninsula is crying out for and has been crying out for better services for over 30 years now, and no clown in government seems to be listening. Worse still is the ever lingering problem of having deep seated liberal MP's over the years who only make a little bit of opposing noise when Labour is in charge and do nothing for transport down here when they are in charge.

The only useful part of the 115 million spent on the bayside rail project was for new staunchions and some repositioned signals, the rest of it was wasted on station jewellery. No money was spent on actual improvements to signalling

Double track to Baxter would be 10 minutes travel time. It takes 9 minutes for the stony from Frankston to baxter so 2 new stations would add a minute. NOT an hour like someone from Adelaide has suggested. and also this needs to be done to cater for the sprawl which happened at Mornington and Somerville for the last 20 years. A decent park and ride could be built at Baxter for Peninsula folk (because the parking at Frankston sucks) and the best and quickest way to get to the train(From the southern Peninsula) would be straight up the new freeway.

So all up Frankston will be 3 platforms, Baxter 3 platforms (not sure how it will work with MRPS) a stabling yard with train maintenance and room for at least 20 trains. With a new signal box (which should be at Baxter) controlling Baxter, Frankston and Carrum(which would only become a terminating location for emergencies)

As for the Stony only God knows what they are going to do with it.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Matthew Guy has yesterday announced he will match the Andrews Government plan to push electrification to Baxter.  This is a me too statement so no real news there.  Pity he did not take it further and complete the job to Stoney Point.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Matthew Guy has yesterday announced he will match the Andrews Government plan to push electrification to Baxter.  This is a me too statement so no real news there.  Pity he did not take it further and complete the job to Stoney Point.
bevans
And a line from Dandenong to Frankston, plus quadding Dandenong to Caulfield with Freight taken off of the Frankston line, but one step at a time.
  Mr Gus Meister Junior Train Controller


Matthew Guy has yesterday announced he will match the Andrews Government plan to push electrification to Baxter. This is a me too statement so no real news there. Pity he did not take it further and complete the job to Stoney Point.
bevans

From what I can see in the proposal, it obviously includes electrification and duplication; however, it looks like Leawarra is being rebuilt and renamed to Frankston East, and a new station at Langwarrin. It would be good (from what I can see) if they build an extra station at Karingal, immidiately South of Karingal Hub.
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne

Matthew Guy has yesterday announced he will match the Andrews Government plan to push electrification to Baxter. This is a me too statement so no real news there. Pity he did not take it further and complete the job to Stoney Point.

From what I can see in the proposal, it obviously includes electrification and duplication; however, it looks like Leawarra is being rebuilt and renamed to Frankston East, and a new station at Langwarrin. It would be good (from what I can see) if they build an extra station at Karingal, immidiately South of Karingal Hub.
Mr Gus Meister

That's right across the Peninsula Link bridge from where they're talking about putting Langwarrin.  Seems a bit overkill to have both.  

Karingal is basically local streets and housing there, not designed for any traffic at all.
Langwarrin would be near several major intersections.

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