16:52 SC to WV Cancelled

 
  LoveV160 Beginner

Hi,

Does anyone know why the 16:52 vLine service from SC to Wyndham Vale keep getting cancelled?
4th time in a row!

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  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Have V/Line provided a reason and is this a daily cancellation?
  randomnarwhal Locomotive Driver

Is this one of the P push-pull services? If it is, then P15 is currently at Newport with several engine covers removed.
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Is this one of the P push-pull services? If it is, then P15 is currently at Newport with several engine covers removed.
randomnarwhal

Yes it is.

7/11/16 was cancelled due to maintenance requirements

4/11/16 due to a train fault

3/11/16 due to a train fault

2/11/16 due to a train fault

I could keep going back but I think everyone gets the picture......
  MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

Why not replace that train set with another and run the service?
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Don't know the reasons for the frequent cancellation but most transport operators and that includes rail often have a schedule of services that they tend to knock out first when they have a shortage of trains or get short notice for cancellation.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
This response seems to suggest V/Line do not have adequate coverage when maintenance is required which sounds a lot like the V/Line situation for Albury Services.  Seems indemic?
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
I think so but have been very reliably informed that one of the new CEO's strength is around both rollingstock and infrastructure maintenance, reliability and performance.   Whilst any new CEO will have many challenges it can be well argued that getting the performance of trains and the network back into a steady state is a critical first step.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Does V/Line have spare sets in the yards in the event a set has to be taken out of service?
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Yes, but I'm not sure of the current ratio as there are sets out for both heavy repair/accident damage, modifications etc.  We know the current locomotive fleet situation is very tight.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Yes, but I'm not sure of the current ratio as there are sets out for both heavy repair/accident damage, modifications etc.  We know the current locomotive fleet situation is very tight.
Trainplanner
Why is the locomotive fleet tight?
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
You have 3 out of 4 A class withdrawn.   4 N class to be allocated to standard gauge.  1 P class on SG as the yard pilot (never used), an N class having accident repair plus others in maintenance.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
You have 3 out of 4 A class withdrawn.   4 N class to be allocated to standard gauge.  1 P class on SG as the yard pilot (never used), an N class having accident repair plus others in maintenance.
Trainplanner

A great example of just how bad the management has become at V/Line to allow this to happen.  Where are the other P class locomotives and where are the A classes?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
A great example of just how bad the management has become at V/Line to allow this to happen.  Where are the other P class locomotives and where are the A classes?
X31
Or, more to the point, where are their modern replacements?
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
You have 3 out of 4 A class withdrawn.   4 N class to be allocated to standard gauge.  1 P class on SG as the yard pilot (never used), an N class having accident repair plus others in maintenance.

A great example of just how bad the management has become at V/Line to allow this to happen.  Where are the other P class locomotives and where are the A classes?
x31
Physically the A Class are in the Storage Yards just south of North Melbourne. My understanding is they've been pretty well cannibalized to keep A66 in service.

Surely there is Stock owned by other companies that V/Line can be renting out to run services, whether on the SG or BG.
Hire 3 or 4 SG locos including a pilot if it is really needed, put all the Ns and P13 back on Broad Gauge would surely fix some of the problems?
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Thanks TOQ-1.   Been saying for nigh on 3 years.  Return the N sets on standard gauge back to Broad.   Take advantage of the surplus 3,000HP locos around the country with the likes of CFCLA or PN
  hbedriver Assistant Commissioner

1. VL 61 ran the 16:52 last evening; it looked brand new.

2. P 13 is one of the most useful locos on the sg. It is regularly used as yard pilot, and has main line capacity to recover a full trains set plus loco consist; this recovery ability has been used on at least one occasion this year. A Y class (even if available) is no good, as they are not deemed main line capable these days, could not haul the full load up the ruling grades, and are too slow anyway.

3. I don't believe they have been cannibalising the A class for 66; my understanding is that they are trying to keep the N class going.

4. As to P class generally, they are not a particularly complex loco, so having 4 out of 7 available to run a couple of light trains short distances shouldn't be too hard.
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
You have 3 out of 4 A class withdrawn.   4 N class to be allocated to standard gauge.  1 P class on SG as the yard pilot (never used), an N class having accident repair plus others in maintenance.

A great example of just how bad the management has become at V/Line to allow this to happen.  Where are the other P class locomotives and where are the A classes?
Physically the A Class are in the Storage Yards just south of North Melbourne. My understanding is they've been pretty well cannibalized to keep A66 in service.

Surely there is Stock owned by other companies that V/Line can be renting out to run services, whether on the SG or BG.
Hire 3 or 4 SG locos including a pilot if it is really needed, put all the Ns and P13 back on Broad Gauge would surely fix some of the problems?
TOQ-1

As far as I'm aware it's not just loco's that are required, it's carriage sets as well.

Look at the N sets, 17 in total, 3 on SG, one having overhaul so it can go to SG and one out for repairs after being involved in an accident leaving 12 sets. 4 are AM peaks on the Geelong line, one each overnight in Warrnambool, Swan Hill, Shepparton and Bairnsdale. That leaves 3 sets for repairs and rotations.

The issue seems to be that Bombardier simply cannot produce V/Locities at the rate they are required to replace the N's on the Geelong line peak services.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Thanks Sam the Man.   A number of my colleagues share my view that the H sets which despite their age, are great high capacity people movers BUT are not used as effectively as they could be.   I don't have the detailed car working but it is either 2 sets or possibly even 3 sets of H sets that arrive Melbourne SX either just before or within a few after 0700 hrs and are then stowed.

The normal AM peak period is by no means at its maximum period of loading at that time and yet H sets capable of moving around 600 passengers are nicely tucked away.    Certainly there is an issue that the relatively low acceleration rate and 100km/hr max speed when hauled by P classes does have the potential to slow up other traffic but many people will tell you that even under RRL 160km/hr capable V'Locity sets are either travelling slowly or even queued trying to access SX.

Train set utilization and building up a timetable is no easy task especially when you have a fleet that is so diverse such as the V/Line mixed fleet, but the fact remains when you have trains boosting at the seams you need to utilize your "heavy lifter" sets to the maximum extent you can.

That to me is why you release the N class AND the P class on SG and bring them back to BG.   4 long term hire 3,000HP units to cover the work of the current N's and also the occasional yard pilot work at Sth Dynon puts a lot of locomotive capacity back onto the BG.   Using H sets hauled by N's because 3 more become available and overhauling the P classes because another is available builds more loco capacity.

Carriage sets.   If those who run the system were prepared to look beyond their narrow focus, they'd be aware that GSR have removed extremely comfortable, superior riding sit up cars off the Indian Pacific and the Ghan.  Also available are an ex Overland and Ex Southern Aurora power van and also a "Matilda" café car.   heaven forbid that you might negotiate with GSR to lease that set for 12 to 18 months (or longer) to do another more comprehensive renovation of the SG N sets without the need to reduce  set capacity.   Even acquisition might be possible if the numbers worked out that it was more cost effective to do this as a holding measure until new generation long distance train sets are to come on line lets say in 5 years.

The GSR set option would quite frankly deliver a very comfortable and even possibly superior service.   The 3,000HP locos hired/leased would assist in slightly better performance for the SG trains in terms of timekeeping, but overwhelmingly address several key issues.   More BG motive power and a far superior back up solution for the NE SG services.
  tazzer96 Chief Commissioner

Similar to comment above.  If its loco's that are short, wouldn't it be easier to convert some N sets to standard gauge to bloster that, and just lease a few BG.

Carriage shortages are much harder and this needs to be addressed very quickly.  


When it comes to the standard gauge, I think that V/line are holding out for the NSW XPT replacement so they can claw back their two XPT sets and run them to albury. Possibly even the rest of the XPT's and maybe XPL's.   The XPT's and XPL's still function and have a far superior performance and comfort standard to the N-sets.

Broad gauge, they just need more DMU's and only run loco hauled carriages to the far reaches.   Even converting some longer distance services such as the warnambool line to DMU would be good, as the speed of the vlocity on a very limited stop service would cancel out some of the creature comforts.

EDIT: got some loco's and carriages  mixed up and corrected them
  emmastreet Train Controller

Location: Goulburn Valley
Today's 16 52 WV cancelled
Pretty sure this mornings down Albury was not a train. Usually see it at Donnybrook when on the 7 56 Seymour up service but no sign of the Albury today.
12 52 down Shepparton was a 3 car H set. I'll get in first, this is NOT good enough.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Today's 16 52 WV cancelled
Pretty sure this mornings down Albury was not a train. Usually see it at Donnybrook when on the 7 56 Seymour up service but no sign of the Albury today.
12 52 down Shepparton was a 3 car H set. I'll get in first, this is NOT good enough.
emmastreet

What is the morning train number?
  hbedriver Assistant Commissioner

8605.

You guys have some power; they ran the 16:52 last night as a push-pull. Tuesday night was run with brand new VL 61, so a shorter train, but somewhat newer.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
I think instead of cancelling the same train every day, they've tried to shuffle things around. Last night a few peak Melton and Bacchus Marsh trains were cancelled.
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
I think instead of cancelling the same train every day, they've tried to shuffle things around. Last night a few peak Melton and Bacchus Marsh trains were cancelled.
TOQ-1
I posted other observations here - https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p2033912.htm#2033912

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