New Melbourne Rail Projects

 
  SandyUser27 Beginner

I would propose 3 significant additions to Melbourne PT rail system that could be completed by 2023

- Electrifying and duplicating the Upfield Line as well as reopening the Upfield-Somerton Line for V Line services. The line could also have the potential to services trains to Cragiburn if needed

- Melbourne Airport Rail: This is much needed i would start this project very soon. I would run the line along the Albion Jacana line. I would build fences to keep tourists from seeing the derro areas and have a 10-15  minute service. The train would start at FSS and stop at SCS, NM, Footsgray and Sunshine. I plan for the Albion-Jacana line to have four tracks and for a 3 km tunnel to be built with one station at Terminal 4 and the others near the three terminals. Will cost 3 billion and several bridges will be fixed.

- The Doncaster Rail: This would be a hard one and would have to see the Clifton Hill Group get High Capacity Signalling. This would cost 4 billon as many parts will be underground. I would have a 10 min service. This needs to be funded

Other Improvements:

- Have the Melton Line electrified and have it run every 18 mins all day

- Upgrade the Box Hill Centro and change it into a major mode interchange. Have 4 platforms and also upgrade the shops. Instead of having trains terminate at Blackburn/Ringwood have them terminate at Box Hill

- Enable the back platform at Brighton Beach to be used so one service an hour can terminate there and make it a 10 minute service.

- Grade separate Middle Brighton and Hampton

- Build a new South Yarra Station with access to Domain Station and the option for Rowville trains in the future to have two platforms

- Have the Rowville Line built by 2030, funded by 2020 and running at a 10 min frequency. The line will not run through the MMRT and will to FSS via the Loop

Hopefully more funding goes into our floored PT system and that the Doncaster, Rowville and Airport lines can be build by 2030

Sponsored advertisement

  mk4c Station Master

I disagree with the Doncaster line. As originally proposed many years ago it made some sense but once the corridor into Doncaster was sold off its usefulness diminished rapidly. As it is now you would be looking at a one station line unless you propose to have some sort of aerial station hanging out in the middle of the freeway, with all access to and from via bridges. A one station (at the Park'n'ride, the only available parking in Doncaster) line would make for a nice quick trip, but I can't see it stacking up in a business case.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
You left out duplicating Mooroolbark-Lilydale and Ferntree Gully-Belgrave and improving the half-hourly timetable. The Ringwood lines can't afford to be left in the past with all the mass housing popping up in the area. By duplicating the rest of the line, it will also have the side effect of improving services on the Glen Waverley and possibly the Alamein* line. What hope do the apartment-dwellers in Boronia, Croydon and the like have in 2023 when the population triples, the roads are gridlocked, fuel jumps to $3 a litre and the trains are still chugging along twice an hour for the vast majority of the day? Of course, it's still miles ahead of the third world option, the suburban route bus (not to be confused with an actual bus service, such as the 220).

* The Alamein line has a horrible track layout between Camberwell and Riversdale, and it is single track from Ashburton to Alamein (two platforms would need to be built), albeit nowhere near the distance of the Lilydale and Belgrave sections, or Keon Park to South Morang which was done at considerable expense. A fourth platform at Camberwell would do wonders for the Alamein line (given that the NIMBYs don't want it to be turned into light rail), but it would mean that the stabling yard would be shrunk or even moved elsewhere.

Forget Doncaster, the only rail line that is feasible over there these days is tram route 48. Rowville will forever be stuck in the car-loving 1950s unless someone wants it to be a subway all the way from Glen Waverley, as there is no hope of land (and especially roads, when it comes to Victoria) being cleared for a normal above-ground train line, and branching off any other line is just as ridiculous - who would want to stand on a train for nearly two hours as it travels via the Belgrave line and finally Ringwood half an hour later, and then all stations except East Richmond after that?
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Wow, Heihachi, have you ever travelled by rail between Upper Gully and Belgrave? The line is cut into a very steep hillside and there is no way it could ever be duplicated, even if there was a real need for it.

But there is no foreseeable need for it to be duplicated. The population density is fairly low beyond UFTG and with tight restrictions on development in the area, that isn't going to change, at least not for many decades. If it does change, the passing loop at Upwey will allow a significant increase in train frequencies.

However you may have a point that the population could increase in the Bayswater - Boronia area as the factories close and they are replaced with housing, but that potential demand could be easily accommodated by running more trains along the double track section to UFTG without extending all of them to Belgrave.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

While we are dreaming, lets reinstate part of the Warburton line ,say following the original alignment back to Wandin. another project would be to bring the Gippsland line through the old outer Circle alignment joining up at Malvern East or Alamien using the Skyrail system.  It is good to have a dream.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Seeing that I live in Yarra Glen, it would be nice to have that one back as well, but of course it will never happen.  In this case, as in many others, the only practical (and much cheaper) solution is a good bus service.
  mrmoopt Chief Commissioner

Location: _
In regards to High Capacity Signalling- I have worked out a way in which V/Line trains will not need to be retrofitted.

High capacity signalling within Metro areas needs to be communication/distance to go based (CBTC), otherwise, there is no benefit to installing such systems.

As with all moving block signalling, there needs to be an absolute fallback. Some systems use crocodile beacons otherwise known as ATP. ATP type systems has brake curve gradients to prevent overspeed and reduces instances of SPAD, but doesn't allow for distance to go.

So as a failsafe, there in no point reinventing the wheel- TPWS will be used as the de facto fall back, with all current Metro area signals upgraded to TPWS.

Then, between each auto signal, you can overlay your CBTC type system from whatever provider you like, the leading system is probably SelTrac or CityFlo.

Probably costs more investment but will solve the problem of fitting equipment onto V/Line rolling stock. This solution will only be used on Broadmeadows, Upfield, Frankston, Pakenham and Cranbourne lines as V/Line stock will need to use Metro network to reach their ultimate destinations. (Upfield being layered with this dual system approach in prep for V/Line to stop using Broadmeadows tracks and as a diversionary route).

All other Metro lines can be transitioned to CBTC with no TPWS overlay.

Any thoughts?
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
What this really needs is SUA   (stop using acronyms).
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
I would propose 3 significant additions to Melbourne PT rail system that could be completed by 2023

- Electrifying and duplicating the Upfield Line as well as reopening the Upfield-Somerton Line for V Line services. The line could also have the potential to services trains to Cragieburn if needed
SandyUser27
A study on this proposal has been funded in the 2016-2017 Victorian State Budget (page 12 in pdf)

- Melbourne Airport Rail: This is much needed, I would start this project very soon. I would run the line along the Albion Jacana line. I would build fences to keep tourists from seeing the derro areas and have a 10-15  minute service. The train would start at FSS and stop at SCS, NM, Footscray and Sunshine. I plan for the Albion-Jacana line to have four tracks and for a 3 km tunnel to be built with one station at Terminal 4 and the others near the three terminals. Will cost $3 billion and several bridges will be fixed.
SandyUser27
One station at Melbourne Airport can service all of the terminals. It's not like the terminals are on opposite ends of the airport. 'Your' route has been the default Melbourne Airport Rail Link (MARL) plan dreamed up by the former Department of Transport and its successor bureaucracies for 15+ years. It's known in those circles as the 'Albion East Base Case'.

- The Doncaster Rail: This would be a hard one and would have to see the Clifton Hill Group get High Capacity Signalling. This would cost $4 billon as many parts will be underground. I would have a 10 min service. This needs to be funded
SandyUser27
Is it really worth it? This horse carcass of an idea has been flogged relentlessly over the years. The simple reason a railway line hasn't been built to Doncaster is because it's hideously expensive and the benefits are marginal. If you really want something on rails then a light rail similar to the Victorian Transport Action Group's Route 100 is a much cheaper option. Route 100 requires no expensive tunnelling and has no city access issues (unlike a branch off the Clifton Hill heavy rail lines).

Other Improvements:

- Have the Melton Line electrified and have it run every 18 mins all day
SandyUser27
Already in the infrastructure pipeline following the Ballarat Line Upgrade (duplication to Melton + new passing loops between Rowsley and Warrenheip) and the Metro Tunnel (the tunnel formerly known as the Melbourne Metro Rail Tunnel).

- Upgrade the Box Hill Centro and change it into a major mode interchange. Have 4 platforms and also upgrade the shops. Instead of having trains terminate at Blackburn/Ringwood have them terminate at Box Hill
SandyUser27
A good idea. Should be timed with grade separations at Union Rd and Mont Albert Rd to quadruplicate between Surrey Hills and Box Hill to enable a proper metro-style (minimum 15 minute frequency, stopping all stations) between Box Hill and Melbourne's CBD.

- Grade separate Middle Brighton and Hampton
SandyUser27
That's going to be a tall order, especially given the NIMBY inclinations of the locals. The recently-approved mixed-use development at Hampton Railway Station will be the real litmus test for any grade separation, especially given that Rail-Over is probably the best method to grade separate both of those crossings at Church St (Middle Brighton) and Hampton St (Hampton).

- Build a new South Yarra Station with access to Domain Station and the option for Rowville trains in the future to have two platforms
SandyUser27
Further explanation is required.

- Have the Rowville Line built by 2030, funded by 2020 and running at a 10 min frequency. The line will not run through the MMRT and will to FSS via the Loop
SandyUser27
Running rail further out past the Monash University Clayton Campus is throwing good money after bad.
  damooops Junior Train Controller

Location: The Revenue Raising State
G'day all.
What about full duplication of the Crimebourne line with an extension to Clyde? Also the long awaited (almost) forgotten third line from Caulfield to Dandenong. The third platform originally meant to be built at Crazyburn. The missing link from Werribee to Wyndham Vale.  All depends how deep taxpayers pockets are!
Cheers all.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
I would propose 3 significant additions to Melbourne PT rail system that could be completed by 2023

- Electrifying and duplicating the Upfield Line as well as reopening the Upfield-Somerton Line for V Line services. The line could also have the potential to services trains to Cragieburn if needed
A study on this proposal has been funded in the 2016-2017 Victorian State Budget (page 12 in pdf)
LancedDendrite
It's actually on page 10, and says "$5 million for development work",  whatever that means but probably a study.  Makes no mention of all the other work required, such as duplicating the Metro track and building new platforms at the Metro stations.
  RadarJunkie Station Staff

Can we have the line between Carlton and Rushall back?
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Can we have the line between Carlton and Rushall back?
RadarJunkie
The old Inner Circle line runs through what are now wealthy and politically influential areas. Moreover, it runs through three politically marginal electorates (one Green, two Labour). So not only would the locals would kick up a hell of a stink about both the noise from the trains and the destruction of what is now a park, but unlike the Skyrail electorates, they would be listened to.

Of course, IF the Inner Circle were still in existence, it would allow some South Morang trains to operate via North Melbourne, reducing overcrowding on the Jolimont route and possibly giving enough extra paths through Jolimont for a Doncaster line to be built. So the inner circle would probably be an asset to the Melbourne rail system if it still existed.

However rebuilding it would be "politically impossible". Even if the more expensive option of a cut and cover tunnel was chosen with a promise that no new stations were built (as stations are seen as a magnet for dodgy adolescents and other riff-raff). Essentially local lobbyists would protest about every single tree that had to be removed in their marginal seats and I doubt that any government would be stupid enough to ever try to take them on.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Wow, Heihachi, have you ever travelled by rail between Upper Gully and Belgrave? The line is cut into a very steep hillside and there is no way it could ever be duplicated, even if there was a real need for it.

But there is no foreseeable need for it to be duplicated. The population density is fairly low beyond UFTG and with tight restrictions on development in the area, that isn't going to change, at least not for many decades. If it does change, the passing loop at Upwey will allow a significant increase in train frequencies.

However you may have a point that the population could increase in the Bayswater - Boronia area as the factories close and they are replaced with housing, but that potential demand could be easily accommodated by running more trains along the double track section to UFTG without extending all of them to Belgrave.
"Bogong"

Well in that case, dual-track to Upper Ferntree Gully (is dual track to Upwey possible?) and make the Belgrave shuttle from there just like the Puffing Billy days. The entire Burnley group shouldn't have to suffer just because the formerly narrow gauge line goes to one track in the mountains and nearly every train has to go all the way from the city to Belgrave. You are correct in saying that it will be costly (notably the bridge over the Burwood Highway, and rebuilding Tecoma station/McNicol Rd bridge from scratch) to dual-track all the way to Belgrave, but I don't see it being much more expensive (if it is) than any of the other recent major grade separation works we've had. Duplicating the line beyond Keon Park, including grade separation, extending the Epping line to South Morang and building two brand new stations (not to mention the second platforms at the other stations) couldn't have been cheap at all. Likewise, the Frankston line "skyrail" project.

Land is already being acquired in Boronia, looking along Dorset Rd on the 737 bus. A good number of the old post-war houses in the area are being bought in bulk side by side waiting to be flattened for 3-storey apartments to be built (there are also a number of empty paddocks further north on Dorset Rd screaming to have houses built there, but they are in the middle of nowhere e.g. Canterbury Rd intersection). Ringwood is the same, with 1950s-era streets like those immediately west of Eastland being literally gold for the (mostly Chinese) property moguls. Buy 2 or 3 next to each other for a few million, turn the land into an apartment block that can house 70 or more people and charge $300k for a single bedroom apartment (add $100k for another bedroom) instead of the 2, 3 or 4 bedroom houses that once sat there. No wonder decrepit weatherboard houses are going for $1 million and beyond these days. I'm sure it's happening in Croydon, Lilydale (Mooroolbark is still a McMansion area when it comes to new houses), Heathmont and Ferntree Gully as well.
  SandyUser17 Station Staff

Think Hampton and Middle Brighton should be grade separated underground. Been a few deaths and have witnessed several near misses. As for Camberwell yes a fourth platform is required and I would move the stabling yard to Blackburn and make a new one. Box Hill Centro should be upgraded and I would terminate trains there also.

Upfield Somerton is being looked at. Doncaster is too expensive and very hard. Just extend Route 48 and get E Class Trains up there. Rowville is needed for me and would not travel via the MMRT.
Airport link will be fun

And for last get platform 11 back
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Can we have the line between Carlton and Rushall back?
The old Inner Circle line runs through what are now wealthy and politically influential areas. Moreover, it runs through three politically marginal electorates (one Green, two Labour). So not only would the locals would kick up a hell of a stink about both the noise from the trains and the destruction of what is now a park, but unlike the Skyrail electorates, they would be listened to.

Of course, IF the Inner Circle were still in existence, it would allow some South Morang trains to operate via North Melbourne, reducing overcrowding on the Jolimont route and possibly giving enough extra paths through Jolimont for a Doncaster line to be built. So the inner circle would probably be an asset to the Melbourne rail system if it still existed.

However rebuilding it would be "politically impossible". Even if the more expensive option of a cut and cover tunnel was chosen with a promise that no new stations were built (as stations are seen as a magnet for dodgy adolescents and other riff-raff). Essentially local lobbyists would protest about every single tree that had to be removed in their marginal seats and I doubt that any government would be stupid enough to ever try to take them on.
Bogong
You forget that Green voters generally like public transport, and would probably be happy for more trains in their areas. Seats going marginal Green are probably the best for Public Transport. Though the removal of trees probably gets them all conflicted.

Running South Morang Trains via North Melbourne would just eat at the capacity for Upfield trains, I would think.

Melbourne will probably eventually need a middle band orbital railway to keep pressure from the centre, but we haven't yet got to the stage where the outer 'Employment Hubs' or whatever they're calling them (Sunshine, Parkville, Dandenong, Clayton) are big enough to attract enough traffic for it to be feasible. Given that the Innter Circle and Outer Circle reserves still exist, these would probably be the best basis of the route. It is a difficult act balancing the need for transport with the need for open spaces though.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
In theory we could also extend the Cranbourne line north of Dandenong to join up somewhere near Bayswater feeding Knox and whatnot.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
"In theory" we could extend the Hurstbridge line to Panton Hill, Rob Roy and Yarra Glen, but it would never be done, just like my subway between Glen Waverley to Rowville (a subway that isn't in the CBD? You're dreaming!!!)
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Has anyone ever thought of making what we already have work properly?

  • Cut the late running deadline of 5 minutes to 2 minutes enroute ultimately to achieving Swiss level punctually.
  • Realistically reliable achievable running times.
  • Review both permanent and temporary speed restrictions.
  • A few high speed turnouts in strategic locations.
  • More 'enthusiastic' train running.
  • Better rolling stock and infrastructure maintenance.
  • How may trains actually depart Flinders Street on time to the second or two? Very very few, if any?
  • The road is set, the signals are green, those passengers on the platform are aboard, the platform countdown has taken place and what happens. Very often damned all.................


You never know we might even fix the clock in the Elizabeth Street tower which is often up to about 5 minutes out...that would be a start........Rolling Eyes
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Both need to be achieved because the current network is not large enough to support the new population areas.

In addition there is the need to fix what is there perhaps not the same way the Albiry line was fixed.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
G'day all.
What about full duplication of the Crimebourne line with an extension to Clyde? Also the long awaited (almost) forgotten third line from Caulfield to Dandenong.
damooops

Full duplication of the Cranbourne line? Sure - it's badly needed to increase service reliability on the Dandenong corridor. I'm not so keen on an extension to Clyde though, I'd like to see a proper business case for that one.

3rd track Caulfield-Dandenong has had the kibosh put on it, courtesy of the idiotic decision to build 'Skyrail' (CTD) as duplicated track instead of provisioning quadruplicated track.

Think Hampton and Middle Brighton should be grade separated underground. Been a few deaths and have witnessed several near misses.
SandyUser17
Church St, Middle Brighton was ranked #140 on ALCAM in 2008* - that's not really an urgent level crossing to remove. Hampton Rd, Hampton is ranked #66, so it might be a worthy crossing to remove. It's quite close to the coast though, so putting it underground would be quite expensive and pose some drainage issues.

*More info on ALCAM here: http://www.danielbowen.com/2014/09/24/level-crossing-list/

As for Camberwell yes a fourth platform is required and I would move the stabling yard to Blackburn and make a new one. Box Hill Centro should be upgraded and I would terminate trains there also.
SandyUser17
Good luck getting any room for stabling on the Ringwood corridor west of Ringwood. You'd have to do some serious mucking around with Blackburn station to get room for more than one or two 6-car EMU sets.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Who needs stabling yards west of Ringwood? There's plenty of room for stabling beyond Lilydale if they aren't ever going to rebuild the line to Healesville. When/if Bedford Rd (way down at #104) is grade separated the Belgrave side of Ringwood's stabling yard will have to be moved elsewhere too, if only temporarily while the works are being done.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Additional stabling at Lilydale may have to wait for the level crossing removal on the Maroondah Highway at Lilydale, and/or the duplication from Mooroolbark, either or both of which could have a significant effect depending on how they are implemented.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

when lease of land has expired at Ventura/Invicta Bus depot siding extensions appear will take place there.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
G'day all.
What about full duplication of the Crimebourne line with an extension to Clyde? Also the long awaited (almost) forgotten third line from Caulfield to Dandenong.


3rd track Caulfield-Dandenong has had the kibosh put on it, courtesy of the idiotic decision to build 'Skyrail' (CTD) as duplicated track instead of provisioning quadruplicated track.


LancedDendrite
The Skyrail design permits quadruplicated track between Oakleigh and Dandenong.

Through Clayton an additional double track viaduct would be built over where the railway alignment Is now (South of the viaduct currently under construction) , same thing at Noble Park, though at Chandler Road the viaduct swaps sides (the second viaduct can ease out this slew their making)

Caulfield to Oakleigh well that's In the too sticky basket at the moment.

Property acquisitions
Noisy protest
What to do at the Frankston line Junction

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.