Melbourne Metro tunnel 2

 
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Fisermans Bend is just an add-on by some foamers to make the basic MM2 (Clifton Hill to SCS) look more attractive.

With respect, John, I think you've fundamentally misunderstood the calculus of MM2 with a comment like this.

Fisherman's Bend was included as a possible extension to the Clifton Hill - SCS tunnel in the 2012 PTV plan. It's worth remembering that this proposal envisioned a Doncaster line.

For the 2016 Infrastructure Victoria plan, someone realised that the benefits of a new tunnel could be expanded to the west. With Doncaster rail more or less off the table, it became clear that the western section was in fact possibly the only section required.

If the western section is ever to be built - and it will almost certainly be built before an eastern section is - it would be simply ludicrous not to include a station at Fisherman's Bend.
potatoinmymouth
@PIMM - let's just disagree on that.

Fishermans Bend was just a heavy rail possibility which just kept growing to make MM2 sound more important.
Yet another kite for the SCS owners to fly their own importance.

Doncaster is dead, buried and cremated. But ZOMBIES might still rule the world.

As for the west, I just don't get it.  
Werribee already has 2 Metro(ish) lines into Melbourne, on which improvements are actually happening. Yet want to add a 3rd ?

Maybe we will be putting this thread to sleep for a decade and resume

cheers
John

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  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Fisermans Bend is just an add-on by some foamers to make the basic MM2 (Clifton Hill to SCS) look more attractive.

With respect, John, I think you've fundamentally misunderstood the calculus of MM2 with a comment like this.

Fisherman's Bend was included as a possible extension to the Clifton Hill - SCS tunnel in the 2012 PTV plan. It's worth remembering that this proposal envisioned a Doncaster line.

For the 2016 Infrastructure Victoria plan, someone realised that the benefits of a new tunnel could be expanded to the west. With Doncaster rail more or less off the table, it became clear that the western section was in fact possibly the only section required.

If the western section is ever to be built - and it will almost certainly be built before an eastern section is - it would be simply ludicrous not to include a station at Fisherman's Bend.
@PIMM - let's just disagree on that.

Fishermans Bend was just a heavy rail possibility which just kept growing to make MM2 sound more important.
Yet another kite for the SCS owners to fly their own importance.

Doncaster is dead, buried and cremated. But ZOMBIES might still rule the world.

As for the west, I just don't get it.  
Werribee already has 2 Metro(ish) lines into Melbourne, on which improvements are actually happening. Yet want to add a 3rd ?

Maybe we will be putting this thread to sleep for a decade and resume

cheers
John
justarider
Fair enough, we'll agree to disagree on the Fisherman's Bend question.

But the assertion that Werribee "has 2 Metro lines" seems to me to vastly misrepresent the situation of the western 'burbs.

The Werribee line itself will need to service the massive growth of the Point Cook and Werribee South areas over the next decade or so, demand with which it is already struggling to cope. The Werribee line is packed, and the West Gate Freeway is absolutely cactus.

The electrified Wyndham Vale line will need to service the massive WV, Tarneit, Ravenhall and Truganina areas, as well as growth from Werribee and Hoppers. It's not practical for this line to somehow absorb demand from south of the Werribee line.

The Werribee line is capacity constrained by interaction with the Altona and Williamstown lines, and, once the Frankston line is given a dedicated Loop tunnel in 2025, will present an extremely awkward problem at Flinders St with only the Sandringham line to balance it from the East.

Giving the Werribee line a dedicated run to the city from Newport gives the Werribee South precinct - planned as a major employment centre - a genuine high-frequency service from the city; will enable Newport to be untangled and, with Altona Loop duplication, could finally allow a consistent service to Williamstown and Laverton which through-runs to Sandringham without complicated new infrastructure at Flinders St; and, of course, creates infrastructure at Southern Cross which is useful for a future extension to Clifton Hill.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Fisermans Bend is just an add-on by some foamers to make the basic MM2 (Clifton Hill to SCS) look more attractive.

With respect, John, I think you've fundamentally misunderstood the calculus of MM2 with a comment like this.

Fisherman's Bend was included as a possible extension to the Clifton Hill - SCS tunnel in the 2012 PTV plan. It's worth remembering that this proposal envisioned a Doncaster line.

For the 2016 Infrastructure Victoria plan, someone realised that the benefits of a new tunnel could be expanded to the west. With Doncaster rail more or less off the table, it became clear that the western section was in fact possibly the only section required.

If the western section is ever to be built - and it will almost certainly be built before an eastern section is - it would be simply ludicrous not to include a station at Fisherman's Bend.
@PIMM - let's just disagree on that.

Fishermans Bend was just a heavy rail possibility which just kept growing to make MM2 sound more important.
Yet another kite for the SCS owners to fly their own importance.

Doncaster is dead, buried and cremated. But ZOMBIES might still rule the world.

As for the west, I just don't get it.  
Werribee already has 2 Metro(ish) lines into Melbourne, on which improvements are actually happening. Yet want to add a 3rd ?

Maybe we will be putting this thread to sleep for a decade and resume

cheers
John
Fair enough, we'll agree to disagree on the Fisherman's Bend question.

But the assertion that Werribee "has 2 Metro lines" seems to me to vastly misrepresent the situation of the western 'burbs.

The Werribee line itself will need to service the massive growth of the Point Cook and Werribee South areas over the next decade or so, demand with which it is already struggling to cope. The Werribee line is packed, and the West Gate Freeway is absolutely cactus.

The electrified Wyndham Vale line will need to service the massive WV, Tarneit, Ravenhall and Truganina areas, as well as growth from Werribee and Hoppers. It's not practical for this line to somehow absorb demand from south of the Werribee line.

The Werribee line is capacity constrained by interaction with the Altona and Williamstown lines, and, once the Frankston line is given a dedicated Loop tunnel in 2025, will present an extremely awkward problem at Flinders St with only the Sandringham line to balance it from the East.

Giving the Werribee line a dedicated run to the city from Newport gives the Werribee South precinct - planned as a major employment centre - a genuine high-frequency service from the city; will enable Newport to be untangled and, with Altona Loop duplication, could finally allow a consistent service to Williamstown and Laverton which through-runs to Sandringham without complicated new infrastructure at Flinders St; and, of course, creates infrastructure at Southern Cross which is useful for a future extension to Clifton Hill.
potatoinmymouth
This is why I argue that the Altona loop should be untangled from the Werribee line once MM2 opens, instead extending it through point cook to Werribee South. Getting more people off the Werribee line is needed, as you can only push so many trains through it. Need to spread the load across as many lines as possible.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Fair enough, we'll agree to disagree on the Fisherman's Bend question. But the assertion that Werribee "has 2 Metro lines" seems to me to vastly misrepresent the situation of the western 'burbs. The Werribee line itself will need to service the massive growth of the Point Cook and Werribee South areas over the next decade or so, demand with which it is already struggling to cope. The Werribee line is packed, and the West Gate Freeway is absolutely cactus. The electrified Wyndham Vale line will need to service the massive WV, Tarneit, Ravenhall and Truganina areas, as well as growth from Werribee and Hoppers. It's not practical for this line to somehow absorb demand from south of the Werribee line. The Werribee line is capacity constrained by interaction with the Altona and Williamstown lines, and, once the Frankston line is given a dedicated Loop tunnel in 2025, will present an extremely awkward problem at Flinders St with only the Sandringham line to balance it from the East. Giving the Werribee line a dedicated run to the city from Newport gives the Werribee South precinct - planned as a major employment centre - a genuine high-frequency service from the city; will enable Newport to be untangled and, with Altona Loop duplication, could finally allow a consistent service to Williamstown and Laverton which through-runs to Sandringham without complicated new infrastructure at Flinders St; and, of course, creates infrastructure at Southern Cross which is useful for a future extension to Clifton Hill.
potatoinmymouth

Assuming Metro 2 stage one (Newport to Parkville) is built, what would the rest of the lines be?
  • Mernda and Hurstbridge would presumably run together through the loop until stage two is built
  • Werribee to Parkville via Metro 2
  • Belgrave/Lilydale through loop
  • Sunshine-Dandenong through Metro 1
Then what?

Do you run Altona/Williamstown to Sandringham or to Glen Waverley/Alamein? If you run them to Sandringham, then does the Upfield line go to Glen Waverley/Alamein? Should the Upfield line run via Flinders Street or a re-configured loop?

This begs another question: Is it still worth through routing Craigieburn line services to Frankston via a (no longer) loop? In my mind, the intention of this was to separate the Craigieburn and Upfield lines and through route both of them. The reason why the Upfield line ended up going to Flinders Street was because of V/line services to Seymour. But if these V/lines run via the airport, then would the Upfield line still run through the loop?

I hope they formally release their long term plans soon!
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Ringwood group trains usually form Glen Waverley trains at the city and vice versa, almost always via the Burnley loop one way or the other. I wouldn't expect anything at all to change with either Metro Tunnel as the problems on the Burnley group occur beyond Mooroolbark, Ferntree Gully and Ashburton.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Ringwood group trains usually form Glen Waverley trains at the city and vice versa, almost always via the Burnley loop one way or the other. I wouldn't expect anything at all to change with either Metro Tunnel as the problems on the Burnley group occur beyond Mooroolbark, Ferntree Gully and Ashburton.
Heihachi_73
This occurs so that East Richmond can be skipped by Camberwell bound trains

Train from Camberwell arrives into Bunrley. Minute later train arrives from GW to pick up passengers for East Richmond
Train from Camberwell forms GW service, and travels via Loop to East Richmond.
Following it is GW service now formed into a Camberwell bound service
GW train arrives at Burnley to drop off east richmond pax. Minute later train arrives bound for Camberwell to pick them up.

In the future, when GW, Camberwell local and Camberwell express are treated as three seperate track pairs, this pattern will not need to continue.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Since the 2012 PTV Plan, a branch to Wollert from Epping has become an idea. This would requite Metro II, and gives a greater reason for it existing to the North than a Doncaster branch does.

From the West:
- Werribee/Wyndham Vale via Metro II
- Laverton/Altona and Williamstown via the existing line

From the North
- Mernda and Wollert via Metro II
- Hurstbridge and possible short starters via the City Loop
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

With respect,, I think you've fundamentally misunderstood the calculus of MM2 with a comment like this. Fisherman's Bend was included as a possible extension to the Clifton Hill - SCS tunnel in the 2012 PTV plan. It's worth remembering that this proposal envisioned a Doncaster line. For the 2016 Infrastructure Victoria plan, someone realised that the benefits of a new tunnel could be expanded to the west. With Doncaster rail more or less off the table, it became clear that the western section was in fact possibly the only section required. If the western section is ever to be built - and it will almost certainly be built before an eastern section is - it would be simply ludicrous not to include a station at Fisherman's Bend.
potatoinmymouth


If an extension is built to Wollert then there will be a need for Metro 2 because Mernda and Hurstbridge can’t support an additional line. Then there is the justification for this dead Doncaster Line, although it sadly looks like it won’t happen.

Since the 2012 PTV Plan, a branch to Wollert from Epping has become an idea. This would requite Metro II, and gives a greater reason for it existing to the North than a Doncaster branch does. From the West: - Werribee/Wyndham Vale via Metro II - Laverton/Altona and Williamstown via the existing line From the North - Mernda and Wollert via Metro II - Hurstbridge and possible short starters via the City Loop
TOQ-1


There may not be justification for 30 TPH to Werribee/Wyndham Vale so you could 6 TPH terminate at Laverton via the Altona Loop and have 24 TPH Werribee/Wyndham Vale, 6 TPH Laverton via Altona.

Then have Williamstown and Newport going at 6 TPH all day via Footscray.

Clifton Hill Loop: Hurstbridge and ...... Doncaster in my dreams, sigh
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

I guess you don't absolutely have to run 30TPH. Let's face it, a train every two minutes opposed to three won't make too much of a difference at least initially. That being said, Werribee is already huge, and combined with the rapidly growing Point Cook and Werribee South, might provide justification for such frequency.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
With respect,, I think you've fundamentally misunderstood the calculus of MM2 with a comment like this. Fisherman's Bend was included as a possible extension to the Clifton Hill - SCS tunnel in the 2012 PTV plan. It's worth remembering that this proposal envisioned a Doncaster line. For the 2016 Infrastructure Victoria plan, someone realised that the benefits of a new tunnel could be expanded to the west. With Doncaster rail more or less off the table, it became clear that the western section was in fact possibly the only section required. If the western section is ever to be built - and it will almost certainly be built before an eastern section is - it would be simply ludicrous not to include a station at Fisherman's Bend.


If an extension is built to Wollert then there will be a need for Metro 2 because Mernda and Hurstbridge can’t support an additional line. Then there is the justification for this dead Doncaster Line, although it sadly looks like it won’t happen.

Since the 2012 PTV Plan, a branch to Wollert from Epping has become an idea. This would requite Metro II, and gives a greater reason for it existing to the North than a Doncaster branch does. From the West: - Werribee/Wyndham Vale via Metro II - Laverton/Altona and Williamstown via the existing line From the North - Mernda and Wollert via Metro II - Hurstbridge and possible short starters via the City Loop


There may not be justification for 30 TPH to Werribee/Wyndham Vale so you could 6 TPH terminate at Laverton via the Altona Loop and have 24 TPH Werribee/Wyndham Vale, 6 TPH Laverton via Altona.

Then have Williamstown and Newport going at 6 TPH all day via Footscray.

Clifton Hill Loop: Hurstbridge and ...... Doncaster in my dreams, sigh
ptvcommuter

You wouldn't want such uneven frequencies - 30tph to Werribee and only 12 tph between Newport and Footscray?

The idea behind running Altona via the current route is it keeps active connections open, as well as providing future capacity. Wyndham Vale in itself might not need 30 tph, but having two main routes (via Fishermen's Bend and via Footscray) should provide for 4 branch lines. Willamstown, Laverton (with a possible extension), Wyndham Vale. There is room for a possible additional branch.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Since the 2012 PTV Plan, a branch to Wollert from Epping has become an idea. This would requite Metro II, and gives a greater reason for it existing to the North than a Doncaster branch does.

From the West:
- Werribee/Wyndham Vale via Metro II
- Laverton/Altona and Williamstown via the existing line

From the North
- Mernda and Wollert via Metro II
- Hurstbridge and possible short starters via the City Loop
TOQ-1
Wollert is best served as a diversion of the Upfield Line north of Faulkner/Gowrie. Provides 48+ tph to the area instead of splitting 24tph between two different areas. Also gives two different paths into the city in case of delays and track maitenance.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
You can think that, but the government is actively preserving a transit corridor that links to Epping, not to Upfield or Craigieburn.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/north/lalor-to-epping-train-line-a-step-closer-as-state-government-buys-properties/news-story/96d1f7fde27a775e40b4ef5d4edc6f75
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

This Wollert debate really depends on whether Seymour trains run via the airport or not. If not, they will presumably run via Upfield as previously planned, making an extension to Wollert unlikely. I'm curious to see what route is being proposed on this site for the Wollert via Upfield line.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Sending Seymour trains via the Airport would be an absurd waste of funds given the Somerton Link alternative. I know everyone here wants super-fast trains north of the airport, but the reality is it makes zero economic sense for the Seymour commuter belt when the Upfield line is unlikely to see any substantial patronage growth in the medium-to-long term.

Quite frankly the job could be done starting tomorrow with extremely minimal extra planning, for relative peanuts, with big benefits right off the bat for Donnybrook and Wallan, Seymour/Shepp, and of course Craigieburn.

If a gauge conversion or bigger rerouting happens in the ten-year future, so be it - getting this three-year project done now won’t have been a waste of time.
  John E Locomotive Driver

While the upfield line has a low frequency this will increase when metro 1 opens. Also the housing density on the upfield line is likely to keep increasing so this will further increase patronage.

Slightly off topic - Seymour/shep should go via the upfield line but provision should be made for quadding and gauge conversion to enable high speed. Can also add Albury in. Will likely need to tunnel from fawkner which will cost a lot but this is a better solution than the airport. Also dont think Melb airport owners will be happy with high speed rail to sydney going through the airport
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
to all those fans of boosting UPFIELD
- Woolert, gauge conversion, quadding, tunnel , only 3 years -
really , can I have some more of that Xmas happy juice too?

Just a minor issue raised in many discussions elsewhere.
LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX
that's 22 for those who can't count.

Solve that and then maybe some of the other dreams can come true.

since Upfield is nowhere near any of the MM2 proposals, maybe get back on topic?

cheers
John
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

to all those fans of boosting UPFIELD
- Woolert, gauge conversion, quadding, tunnel , only 3 years -
really , can I have some more of that Xmas happy juice too?

Just a minor issue raised in many discussions elsewhere.
LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX
that's 22 for those who can't count.

Solve that and then maybe some of the other dreams can come true.

since Upfield is nowhere near any of the MM2 proposals, maybe get back on topic?

cheers
John
justarider
Those LX are gonna have to go before SG/Seymour/Freight/High Speed go through there too, so it takes nothing away from the fact that north of faulkner the line serves no real purpose that the Craigieburn Line can't cover, and it's re-routing to Epping North/Wollert could increase patronage on the underutilised line.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

to all those fans of boosting UPFIELD - Woolert, gauge conversion, quadding, tunnel , only 3 years - really , can I have some more of that Xmas happy juice too? Just a minor issue raised in many discussions elsewhere. LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX LX that's 22 for those who can't count. Solve that and then maybe some of the other dreams can come true. since Upfield is nowhere near any of the MM2 proposals, maybe get back on topic? cheers John
justarider
Yes there is LX and it would be hard. Upfield will run to Cragieburn via Somerton, that we know of. Then you could have a branch from Cragieburn to Epping via Wollert. Mernda and Wollert via Upfield running through MM2 to Werribee/Wyndham Vale. Improves orbital connectivity and gives a link to Wollert. Then upfield can run to Parkville and through MM2. You also eliminate the two crossings in Arden, especially Macauley Rd and then elevate the rest of the line which won’t cost too much. It’s an option

Sending Seymour trains via the Airport would be an absurd waste of funds given the Somerton Link alternative. I know everyone here wants super-fast trains north of the airport, but the reality is it makes zero economic sense for the Seymour commuter belt when the Upfield line is unlikely to see any substantial patronage growth in the medium-to-long term. Quite frankly the job could be done starting tomorrow with extremely minimal extra planning, for relative peanuts, with big benefits right off the bat for Donnybrook and Wallan, Seymour/Shepp, and of course Craigieburn. If a gauge conversion or bigger rerouting happens in the ten-year future, so be it - getting this three-year project done now won’t have been a waste of time.
potatoinmymouth


No it isn’t. You separate Metro and VLine, improve frequency and services for the north east and reduce disruptions.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

While the upfield line has a low frequency this will increase when metro 1 opens. Also the housing density on the upfield line is likely to keep increasing so this will further increase patronage. Slightly off topic - Seymour/shep should go via the upfield line but provision should be made for quadding and gauge conversion to enable high speed. Can also add Albury in. Will likely need to tunnel from fawkner which will cost a lot but this is a better solution than the airport. Also dont think Melb airport owners will be happy with high speed rail to sydney going through the airport
John.E


Quadding Upfield, now that’s a first
Cheaper going via Airport and the amount of properties that would have to go would be in the thousands.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
While the upfield line has a low frequency this will increase when metro 1 opens. Also the housing density on the upfield line is likely to keep increasing so this will further increase patronage. Slightly off topic - Seymour/shep should go via the upfield line but provision should be made for quadding and gauge conversion to enable high speed. Can also add Albury in. Will likely need to tunnel from fawkner which will cost a lot but this is a better solution than the airport. Also dont think Melb airport owners will be happy with high speed rail to sydney going through the airport


Quadding Upfield, now that’s a first
Cheaper going via Airport and the amount of properties that would have to go would be in the thousands.
ptvcommuter
It's not a first though - it was a plan from the Linking Melbourne Authority back in 2014. Of course, with all the departmental reshuffles that have happened over the past few years, it's disappeared, but its an idea that's possibly still sitting in a draw somewhere that will come out some day.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/freight-trains-may-make-their-way-through-inner-suburbs-20140221-336ir.html
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

It's not a first though - it was a plan from the Linking Melbourne Authority back in 2014. Of course, with all the departmental reshuffles that have happened over the past few years, it's disappeared, but its an idea that's possibly still sitting in a draw somewhere that will come out some day.
TOQ-1


Practical, no
How the hell do you add two tracks to the upfield Line with all the houses nearby. The thousands of properties and businesses that will need to be bought. But it is an issue that will need to be addressed. Linking Melbourne authority has been disbanded now

Freight is an issue, Webb Dock is definitely going to need a freight line and you will need to have more freight running again on the Dandenong corridor once the Quadruplication is done so that you could get cars off roads.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
BACK ON TOPIC I HOPE

@potatoinmymouth I had time to reflect on your description of the overcrowding for the the west, and your advocacy of MM2 to solve it.

A lot of other things are currently in the melting pot and pie in the sky.

When I said there are already 2 line for Werribee, you could expand that to 4 if you consider the whole area as a generic whole.
  • Werribee to City
  • Altona Loop to City
  • Wyndham Vale to City
  • Williamstown to City

they sure all get squeezed together at Newport(3) then Footscray(4). Then off to SCS and/or City Loop competing for space.
Not going to get any more TPH with the existing setup. I'm just not convinced that MM2 is the only answer.

As we speak, MM1 is happening. That will remove all of the Dandenong and Sunbury traffic from the City Loop, add back a bit (but not all) for Frankston.
The unanswered piece of the puzzle is "what will share the MM1 with Sunbury?". We have contenders
  • MARL
  • Wyndham Vale
  • Melton
  • shock horror! Werribee/Albion/Williamstown - all or some of them.

It doesn't really matter which, the point being whichever is chosen eases off the pressure on the other lines and the City Loop.

All will be revealed, we hope, with the SRL Business Case.
It seems likely that an Airport link tunnel will swallow up 2 (if not 3) of the lines from the west. SCS managers are keen to get as many SHOPPERS (aka passengers) to visit as possible.
This leaves Werribee et al in a better position to utilize either
  • City Loop, and some of the paths from Footscray UP.
    or
  • MM1, bigger trains, and turn back (at Hawksburn ??)

Remaining a "minor" squeeze point Newport to Footscray, maybe a 3rd/4th track to enable a lot more express and TPH. There is room.

I know I have just crossed over to the dark side of foam. Be kind.

cheers
John
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

I highly doubt that the Wollert link will be delivered via the Upfield line. Since there is already a reserve for the line from Lalor (apparently), and it is far more direct via the Mernda line, I don't think they will bother spending the extra money to build a longer route.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

BACK ON TOPIC I HOPE @potatoinmymouth I had time to reflect on your description of the overcrowding for the the west, and your advocacy of MM2 to solve it. A lot of other things are currently in the melting pot and pie in the sky. When I said there are already 2 line for Werribee, you could expand that to 4 if you consider the whole area as a generic whole. Werribee to City Altona Loop to City Wyndham Vale to City Williamstown to City they sure all get squeezed together at Newport(3) then Footscray(4). Then off to SCS and/or City Loop competing for space. Not going to get any more TPH with the existing setup. I'm just not convinced that MM2 is the only answer. As we speak, MM1 is happening. That will remove all of the Dandenong and Sunbury traffic from the City Loop, add back a bit (but not all) for Frankston. The unanswered piece of the puzzle is "what will share the MM1 with Sunbury?". We have contenders MARL Wyndham Vale Melton shock horror! Werribee/Albion/Williamstown - all or some of them. It doesn't really matter which, the point being whichever is chosen eases off the pressure on the other lines and the City Loop. All will be revealed, we hope, with the SRL Business Case. It seems likely that an Airport link tunnel will swallow up 2 (if not 3) of the lines from the west. SCS managers are keen to get as many SHOPPERS (aka passengers) to visit as possible. This leaves Werribee et al in a better position to utilize either City Loop, and some of the paths from Footscray UP. or MM1, bigger trains, and turn back (at Hawksburn ??) Remaining a "minor" squeeze point Newport to Footscray, maybe a 3rd/4th track to enable a lot more express and TPH. There is room. I know I have just crossed over to the dark side of foam. Be kind. cheers John
justarider


MM1 will have Sunbury and Metro running through it. Wyndham Vale will run via the Regional Rail Link tracks. Airport Rail, Geelong and Ballarat run via the MARL tracks
MM2 will improve services for Williamstown/Altona while massively improving the Werribee Line Service. Extension to Blackforest Rd/West Werribee will also benefit Werribee passengers.

Quadruplication Footscray to Newport isn’t a better alternative than MM2 because then you have a squeeze at Footscray. MM2 also improves travel times and makes it better to travel with train than over the West Gate fwy
  John E Locomotive Driver

Sorry incomplete post - I meant quad where practical e.g. to fawkner (before cemetary) and tunnel the rest. I defintely didnt mean quad the whole upfield line.

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