Geelong line will become the next Pakenham line

The most likely future of the Geelong line and issues with upgrading it

Electrifying the Geelong is a hard task itself, but with the recent opening of RRL it makes Geelong Commute like the Pakenham line. It is nearly close to a metropolitan service as it gets as the west has less electrified lines. The problem here is Geelong Commuters want their old regional service back and say RRL was a mistake. But the future is upon us to turn the Regional line, into a Metro line as shown in the PTV plan.

Not such a popular decision but slight changes will be made to make the Geelong line without the spending of billions of dollars into Quadding, but instead turned into a metro line as busy as Pakenham with more stops and longer rail commute. This is what is going to happen but the plus side is that the line will get the major upgrades first like the high capacity signalling and new rolling stock. Your tracks will be upgraded and station will get an upgrade along the whole corridor. I call it the Geelong rail upgrade which is similar to what is happening for the Pakenham line. This is the future you will face, unfortunately. There are not enough funding to provide rail quadruplication here, it will be spent on the Dandenong to Pakenham rail quadruplication.

The all quadruplication approach is just not viable at the moment since the RRL would need full electrification and major changes to plan. It is quite hard to design. A solution where it meets the demands and reduce the costs involved. But can do you do when it is planned by people who draw lines on a map where they have no clue how it could run into the future. I'm sorry this is a let down but in reality this is what is likely to happen and will be a problem for future generations to handle.

Potential plan could look like on the Geelong Line:*
If you want to discuss the whole plan on upgrading the Geelong line is in this thread
https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11386467.htm

*Just to clarify this thread is seperate from "Geelong electrification and High speed rail". You may continue to discuss here about the bad planning and how the Geelong line will probably become a metro line. Cheers, James

Geelong, Ballarat and Bendigo/Seymour all each need their own RRL Into North Melbourne.

Ballarat already has It's one In place, the others need their own.

Would you electrify?

If anything it's 5 - 10 minutes slower than going through Werribee/ Newport these days. Wyndom Vale & Tarneit now flood trains to capacity and train 50% of the time is stopped to give way to trains when crossing onto tracks just before sunshine and to top it off stopped just as much before entering southern cross. Mediocre 20th century display compared to what I've seen and transported on throughout Europe.

Geelong Line will need its own path into the city by about the same time as Metro Tunnel 2 will open, makes sense to me to combine both projects, and making the MT2 a quad tunnel, with Werribee sparks SAS and Geelong sparks running express werribee to southern cross (with maybe a stop at Newport).

On top of this, this frees up track capacity newport to southern cross via footscray that could be used by trains from williamstown, as well as an extention of the altona line as per one of the original plans down to point cook (and eventually werribee south). They can through route to the east of melbourne if need be.

All of a sudden, you now have the possibility of 72 trains per hour coming from the south west of Melbourne. 24tph from Geelong (including Drysdale/Torquay services), 24tph from Wyndham Vale via Werribee and 24tph coming from Williamstown / Point Cook.

In addition, there could be the possibility of joining the melton and wyndham vale local sparks into a cross city route to the likes of belgrave/lilydale (with melton and wyndham vale potentially becoming Bacchus Marsh and Lara down the track).

Now melbourne's rail network is more tiered, just like in sydney with the 6 track corridor out west.

I think that for the foreseeable future there'll be a political desire on both sides to prevent Geelong from (physically) becoming part of Melbourne. Growth is being funnelled away (Tarniet, Armstrong Creek) from paths that would link the two cities even though it would make sense transport-wise to expand towards Melbourne along the rail corridor and Princes Highway.

That suggests electrification - unless it was done under a V/line banner - won't happen soon. More likely with growth in Geelong (but with jobs in Melbourne) the V/line trains will go back to being full when they leave Lara, in which case we'll either see electrification from Werribee to Sunshine or V/line just putting on more Wyndham Vale services.

It's already a commuter service, and much like the highway, it's only going to get worse as more development takes place.

Honestly separating the Geelong Line is an even harder task than electrifying it since you have to squeeze two tracks somewhere, or build an expensive tunnel. Whenever the development along the line continues eventually it would be electrified. Only time will tell, perhaps the Wallan corridor would come first, not sure. Just wait and see, a lot of development has happened already since the RRL opened. More may take place further down the line in the future when we run out of space. The urban spread is still an issue and may force the government to make the Geelong Line metro service, sooner than you may think.

Honestly separating the Geelong Line is an even harder task than electrifying it since you have to squeeze two tracks somewhere, or build an expensive tunnel. Whenever the development along the line continues eventually it would be electrified. Only time will tell, perhaps the Wallan corridor would come first, not sure. Just wait and see, a lot of development has happened already since the RRL opened. More may take place further down the line in the future when we run out of space. The urban spread is still an issue and may force the government to make the Geelong Line metro service, sooner than you may think.

Having a dedicated Geelong path into the City has no problems space wise until Newport. Before that, there is plenty of land (a little squeeze around Werribee/Hoppers, but nothing that couldn't be dealt with seeing as its mainly car park).

Agreed that after newport, it becoems expensive, but would be cheaper if done at the same time as Metro Tunnel 2.

Short term solution  longer VL consists up to 8 cars and more Peak hour Wyndam Vale shorts.

Medium term electrify  RRL to Wyndamvale and complete link Wyndamvale round to Werrribee .  Then you run  high capcity sparks  Sandringham - Flinders St - Southern Cross -  Newport  - Werribee  - - Wyndam Vale - Tarneit -  Sunshine - Douthern Cross and vice versa.

At that time selected track amplification between Deer Park & Black Forrest Road to separate Geelong VL from Metro sparks.
End result adequate capacity for both suburban travellers and  V/Line Geelong area commuters .

If there is one subject that keeps reappearing in many threads on RP is the seemly reluctance to go underground. I have travelled on the London tube, New York subway and much more recently on the little underground in Perth. One thing I still chuckle over is some DH politician who spoke against the underground in Perth suggested that they would have problems in finding underground tunnellers in WA. I still suspect that there are a still a few about, both politicians and miners.

For each year that Melbourne does not tunnel to the airport for example, it is another year of costs that WILL be added to the eventuality of going underground. There is a space issue around Newport so why not put the suburban lines underground and leave the country lines above ground. They do it in London and Sydney now I recall the layout of Central station.
I'am well aware of the current project in Melbourne to tunnel under the CBD and I think that it is a good idea So why not a tunnel for traffic from the docks in Port Melbourne to the west and north.

I know tunnelling is expensive but what would have happened in London if they had not. It would be like Melbourne and have lots of level crossings every where and very expensive real-estate that developers will being salivating over.

Here's part two of this thread: https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11386467.htm

Sorry for the unprofessional way I handled the thread, continue to discuss here.
Next time I'll keep the whole idea together on one thread, and keep the title general for more discussion.

I'm gonna scrap this concept and make a new thread, I have a better idea. I'll link the new thread when it is complete.

Seriously?

I did have a reply relevant to this thread but I'm not even going to bother now. I mean what's the point?

James974, What is the point in any of your threads? You start a thread, people disagree with you, you change your opinion, then you either alter your original opening post that much that it no longer resembles what the following posts are replying to, or even worse you say your going to scrap the thread and come back with a 'better' idea.

Why should anyone bother with any of your threads if you keep doing this?

I mean its fine if you want to change your opinion, thats cool, but don't go back and alter the original post. Just say what your new thought is in a fresh post in the same thread.

Honestly, I mean I usually prefer to play the ball, not the man, but if this sort of conduct is going to go on unchecked on this site, I need to say something, and publicly.

I'm gonna scrap this concept and make a new thread, I have a better idea. I'll link the new thread when it is complete.

Seriously?

I did have a reply relevant to this thread but I'm not even going to bother now. I mean what's the point?

James974, What is the point in any of your threads? You start a thread, people disagree with you, you change your opinion, then you either alter your original opening post that much that it no longer resembles what the following posts are replying to, or even worse you say your going to scrap the thread and come back with a 'better' idea.

Why should anyone bother with any of your threads if you keep doing this?

I mean its fine if you want to change your opinion, thats cool, but don't go back and alter the original post. Just say what your new thought is in a fresh post in the same thread.

Honestly, I mean I usually prefer to play the ball, not the man, but if this sort of conduct is going to go on unchecked on this site, I need to say something, and publicly.

I agree. Rather than a specific thread for a specific topic, you're much better off creating a general thread, or using an existing one and putting all the topics in there.

This is a site for enthusiasts to casually chat about what's going on. Proposals aren't going to be taken all that seriously that they need to be presented in a perfectly professional manner.

I'm gonna scrap this concept and make a new thread, I have a better idea. I'll link the new thread when it is complete.

Seriously?

I did have a reply relevant to this thread but I'm not even going to bother now. I mean what's the point?

James974, What is the point in any of your threads? You start a thread, people disagree with you, you change your opinion, then you either alter your original opening post that much that it no longer resembles what the following posts are replying to, or even worse you say your going to scrap the thread and come back with a 'better' idea.

Why should anyone bother with any of your threads if you keep doing this?

I mean its fine if you want to change your opinion, thats cool, but don't go back and alter the original post. Just say what your new thought is in a fresh post in the same thread.

Honestly, I mean I usually prefer to play the ball, not the man, but if this sort of conduct is going to go on unchecked on this site, I need to say something, and publicly.

Alright, I will take note of that of what you said. Yeah that was silly of me. Alright thread will be locked. I will happy to know what your thoughts were, you can post them at the new thread. Next time If I have another idea, I'll try to make it more general so I don't need to change the whole discussion onto a new thread.

I'm gonna scrap this concept and make a new thread, I have a better idea. I'll link the new thread when it is complete.

Seriously?

I did have a reply relevant to this thread but I'm not even going to bother now. I mean what's the point?

Well the thread was reported, and dismissed as a seperate topic to Geelong high speed ideas.  The thread has been active.

So it will not be locked, and continues to be open for comment.