Melton Line New Stations

 
  Mr Gus Meister Junior Train Controller

Hello!

When the Melton Line gets electrified, where should the new stations go at? Do you think they will build more stations between Melton and the city?

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  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Melton East?

Melton West?
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Medium term, (that is to say maybe 10 - 20 years from now) there will likely be a new station for Mt Atkinson, a large new development between Rockbank and Caroline Springs to the immediate South of the Railway. This will likely require a station about 700m West of Hopkins Rd, where it would have easy access via Greigs Rd.

Another candidate for a new station along this corridor would be between Rockbank and Melton at Mt Cottrell. Probably to the immediate West of Mt Cottrell Rd, with access via Mt Cottrell Rd. There is a large development under way there now, with others slated for other nearby areas not as close to the railway. I can see this also happening in 10 to 20 years.

Ideally* both stations would be built during the electrification of the line with all timed to be open and operational on the 1st day of the Metro tunnel being operational. Earlier than that would create significant pathing issues Up of Sunshine.

If built it would make for 4 stations between Melton and Deer Park, in a section that until recently only had Rockbank, a station that generated hardly any passengers at all. The area is indeed growing at a rapid rate.

Note* I said Ideally, that doesn't mean any of the above is going to actually happen, just what I would suggest is the best likely outcome.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Medium term, (that is to say maybe 10 - 20 years from now) there will likely be a new station for Mt Atkinson, a large new development between Rockbank and Caroline Springs to the immediate South of the Railway. This will likely require a station about 700m West of Hopkins Rd, where it would have easy access via Greigs Rd.

Another candidate for a new station along this corridor would be between Rockbank and Melton at Mt Cottrell. Probably to the immediate West of Mt Cottrell Rd, with access via Mt Cottrell Rd. There is a large development under way there now, with others slated for other nearby areas not as close to the railway. I can see this also happening in 10 to 20 years.

Ideally* both stations would be built during the electrification of the line with all timed to be open and operational on the 1st day of the Metro tunnel being operational. Earlier than that would create significant pathing issues Up of Sunshine.

If built it would make for 4 stations between Melton and Deer Park, in a section that until recently only had Rockbank, a station that generated hardly any passengers at all. The area is indeed growing at a rapid rate.

Note* I said Ideally, that doesn't mean any of the above is going to actually happen, just what I would suggest is the best likely outcome.
Gman_86
as long as they build it so that either an Island or two side platforms can be built at a later date without the need to replace infrastructure like signalling, I'm fine with the stations not built from day 1, unless of course they expect there to be fully developed suburbs by 2026.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Medium term, (that is to say maybe 10 - 20 years from now) there will likely be a new station for Mt Atkinson, a large new development between Rockbank and Caroline Springs to the immediate South of the Railway. This will likely require a station about 700m West of Hopkins Rd, where it would have easy access via Greigs Rd.

Another candidate for a new station along this corridor would be between Rockbank and Melton at Mt Cottrell. Probably to the immediate West of Mt Cottrell Rd, with access via Mt Cottrell Rd. There is a large development under way there now, with others slated for other nearby areas not as close to the railway. I can see this also happening in 10 to 20 years.

Ideally* both stations would be built during the electrification of the line with all timed to be open and operational on the 1st day of the Metro tunnel being operational. Earlier than that would create significant pathing issues Up of Sunshine.

If built it would make for 4 stations between Melton and Deer Park, in a section that until recently only had Rockbank, a station that generated hardly any passengers at all. The area is indeed growing at a rapid rate.

Note* I said Ideally, that doesn't mean any of the above is going to actually happen, just what I would suggest is the best likely outcome.
as long as they build it so that either an Island or two side platforms can be built at a later date without the need to replace infrastructure like signalling, I'm fine with the stations not built from day 1, unless of course they expect there to be fully developed suburbs by 2026.
John.Z
You'd hope they do given the proposed developments in the area...
  Mr Gus Meister Junior Train Controller

Would you think that there might be need for one at Robinsons Road, Koriot Creek (Albion) and Hopkins Road? And also, where should Melton stations be located?
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Would you think that there might be need for one at Robinsons Road, Koriot Creek (Albion) and Hopkins Road? And also, where should Melton stations be located?
Mr Gus Meister
There is no justification for new stations between Sunshine and Caroline Springs. As for Hopkins Rd, I answered that in my earlier post, did you not read that? It was the first paragraph of the first decent reply you got.

No need for new stations in Melton, Melton's Station is as centrally located as the raiway lines positioning will allow it.


----

There is no sense in providing too many stations, as the more places the train has to stop at, the longer the trip will take. If the train is too slow (caused by too many stops, not top speed), then it will not lure potential passengers away from their private cars. It will also add to the likelyhood of Ballarat trains being held up by slower stopping trains. If they can limit it to say no more than 6 or 7 stops between Melton and Sunshine (there are currently 4, I proposed another 2), then that should still give an attractive service to get people out of their cars and off the highway, while also providing spare clear paths for express V/Line trains from Bacchus Marsh, Ballan, Ballarat and beyond.

Another thing, if you have a regular stopping Melton spark stopping at too many stations, you can forget about a 59 minute Ballarat - Melbourne commute. It just won't be possible.
  Mr Gus Meister Junior Train Controller

Would you think that there might be need for one at Robinsons Road, Koriot Creek (Albion) and Hopkins Road? And also, where should Melton stations be located?
There is no justification for new stations between Sunshine and Caroline Springs. As for Hopkins Rd, I answered that in my earlier post, did you not read that? It was the first paragraph of the first decent reply you got.

No need for new stations in Melton, Melton's Station is as centrally located as the raiway lines positioning will allow it.


----

There is no sense in providing too many stations, as the more places the train has to stop at, the longer the trip will take. If the train is too slow (caused by too many stops, not top speed), then it will not lure potential passengers away from their private cars. It will also add to the likelyhood of Ballarat trains being held up by slower stopping trains. If they can limit it to say no more than 6 or 7 stops between Melton and Sunshine (there are currently 4, I proposed another 2), then that should still give an attractive service to get people out of their cars and off the highway, while also providing spare clear paths for express V/Line trains from Bacchus Marsh, Ballan, Ballarat and beyond.

Another thing, if you have a regular stopping Melton spark stopping at too many stations, you can forget about a 59 minute Ballarat - Melbourne commute. It just won't be possible.
Gman_86
Sorry - I accidentally thought that Mount Atkinson was at Paynes Road! And yes, having more stops will slow down VLine Trains.

Thanks.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Sorry - I accidentally thought that Mount Atkinson was at Paynes Road
Mr Gus Meister
That isn't entirely wrong.

Land has been unlocked for the development of a new suburb called Mt Atkinson, this land is immediatly South of Greigs Rd, (which itself lies just South of the Ballarat - Melbourne Railway line) and is bordered on the Eastern side by Hopkins Rd. The Western border is roughly aligned with Paynes Rd, if it were to continue South of Greigs Rd, which it currently does not.

The best position for a railway station to serve that proposed suburb would be closer to Hopkins Rd rather than Paynes Rd. Hopkins Rd is the more significant North South thoroughfare and provides a link to the as yet undeveloped lands North of the Western FWY.

I envisage that in the next 20 years this area will be very highly populated, largely with people who will want to either get easy access to the CBD, or the Medical and Higher learning precinct of Parkville. By that time, I would expect this to be a very highly utilised station. At the moment there is nothing but rocky paddocks.
  tazzer96 Chief Commissioner

There is no sense in providing too many stations, as the more places the train has to stop at, the longer the trip will take. If the train is too slow (caused by too many stops, not top speed), then it will not lure potential passengers away from their private cars. It will also add to the likelyhood of Ballarat trains being held up by slower stopping trains. If they can limit it to say no more than 6 or 7 stops between Melton and Sunshine (there are currently 4, I proposed another 2), then that should still give an attractive service to get people out of their cars and off the highway, while also providing spare clear paths for express V/Line trains from Bacchus Marsh, Ballan, Ballarat and beyond.
Gman_86
More stations does allow for better walk up patronage.  The ferny grove line in brisbane is the most frequent off peak line, and still has decent peak frequency of 8tph because each station averages only 1.2km from the last and generates significant walk up patronage.  Considering it only runs for 13km through low-medium density suburbia, it punches well above its weight.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
More stations does allow for better walk up patronage. The ferny grove line in brisbane is the most frequent off peak line, and still has decent peak frequency of 8tph because each station averages only 1.2km from the last and generates significant walk up patronage. Considering it only runs for 13km through low-medium density suburbia, it punches well above its weight.
Tazzer96
Ferny Grove line is 13km
Melton line is 38km

Bit of a difference.

A balance is required. Too many stops and the level of service won't be good enough to lure people from their cars. In fact it might even turn current users away.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Sunbury is 38km from Southern Cross. There are 13 Stations on the Sunbury Line (leaving out South Kensington).

Lilydale is 39km from Flinders St. There are 21 Stations (Not including East Richmond, ignoring the stopping patterns for now).

The number of stations should reflect the density of the surrounds, not just distance between stations. As the areas around the Melton line increase in density, there can be more stations. The outer western suburbs are nowhere near the density that the east is.
  stooge spark Chief Train Controller

Location: My House
Ferris road, thats it.
  tazzer96 Chief Commissioner

Stations should only be added to melton line after its electrified.  Any more stations while using DMU's is stupid.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

There are three possible sites where additional stations could be added. The obvious one is Toolern station (East of Melton).
https://vpa-web.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/PSP31-Toolern-PSP-Amend-C161-December-2015.pdf

The other is Mt Akinson station. (Between Rockbank and Caroline Springs)
http://dsewebapps.dse.vic.gov.au/Shared/ATSAttachment2.nsf/(attachmentopen)/DE6AC6F1ACF3483FCA2581980009DC11/$File/Melton+C162+Incorp+Doc+-+Mt+Atkinson+&+Tarneit+Plains+Precinct+Structure+Plan+June+2017+Approval+Gazetted.PDF

The final place would be between Toolern and Rockbank. This would depend on how dense you want the suburbs would become.

The Mernda rail extension is 9 km with 3 stations (3:1). The Melton electrification is 25 km (counting only outer end between Sunshine and Melton), currently 5 stations (5:1), with an extra 3 station it would be a (3:1) ratio. Station spacing averaging like the Mernda line. This is reasonable for a outer section of metro service, unfortunately regional services will be affected. The most of the demand on the metro service, the vline service would have more capacity, but less speed.
  Crossover Train Controller

Location: St. Albans Victoria
Sorry - I accidentally thought that Mount Atkinson was at Paynes Road
That isn't entirely wrong.

Land has been unlocked for the development of a new suburb called Mt Atkinson, this land is immediatly South of Greigs Rd, (which itself lies just South of the Ballarat - Melbourne Railway line) and is bordered on the Eastern side by Hopkins Rd. The Western border is roughly aligned with Paynes Rd, if it were to continue South of Greigs Rd, which it currently does not.

The best position for a railway station to serve that proposed suburb would be closer to Hopkins Rd rather than Paynes Rd. Hopkins Rd is the more significant North South thoroughfare and provides a link to the as yet undeveloped lands North of the Western FWY.

I envisage that in the next 20 years this area will be very highly populated, largely with people who will want to either get easy access to the CBD, or the Medical and Higher learning precinct of Parkville. By that time, I would expect this to be a very highly utilised station. At the moment there is nothing but rocky paddocks.
Gman_86
Not to mention the rapidly developing Sunshine hospital complex in St Albans which is becoming a very significant complex .
  doyle Chief Commissioner

A new station for tolern near Ferris road announced today
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
A new station for tolern near Ferris road announced today
doyle
Yes, here's the Vic. Government Media Release re a new station at Toolern: https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/new-train-station-for-melbournes-growing-west/
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

A new station for tolern near Ferris road announced today
Yes, here's the Vic. Government Media Release re a new station at Toolern: https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/new-train-station-for-melbournes-growing-west/
jdekorte
Very smart planning, this will happen at the same time of the Ballarat rail upgrade. Wow found this article in May 2017 from council pushing the plan to add the station.http://www.starweekly.com.au/news/station-funds-not-enough/
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
A bit surprised that Toolern is been built so soon, considering how undeveloped much of this area still is. I really expected electrification to come first.

I mean it makes sense to do it along with the duplication works already underway, but since when did government do things that actually make sense?

I expect this station to take a fair amount of strain of Melton station, which has a very large car park that is usually full by about 7 each morning.

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