Colac to Maryvale proposed traffic

 
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Paper works at Maryvale is looking to source logs from Colac area via rail to Gippsland.

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  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
This would require new sidings in the Colac area.

Would also require new log wagons to convey said logs on rail, PN own the old ones they will not sell them to a competitor. PN are even less likely to chase the work themselves. Alternatively they could be transported in shipping containers, log wagons would be a simpler loading process, but more expensive if new wagons would need to be acquired, wheras container flats are easier to come across.

Would also require a path on the increasingly congested Geelong and Warrnambool lines. Night time travel would be a given here I would think.

Good luck to all involved, I hope rail is the winner here. I hope the obstacles I have listed don't prove to much and it doesn't just end up on the Highway. Nobody would win in that case. We don't need more trucks on the roads.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Interesting, surprised they're not sourcing logs from Gippsland, Lack of millable timber?
  rokaifly Station Master

There's been a lot of back and forth with activists in Gippsland region and logging companies. I myself went to a camp based around logging and why they need to stop or slow down in the region. They explained they are involved in projects in petintion the governing to stop allowing this or slowing it down majorly.

Possibly and win for activists (unsure though)
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I think you will find there is a location right on the line targeted,
  skitz Chief Commissioner

It would be simply a case of the available resource at the right price delivered to the door.  

One only has to remember the NG at Colac carried pulp wood for Maryvale too back in the day.  Although I would ask that someone confirm this.
  steven_h Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Wouldn't they containerise it? I can't imagine raw logs on flats running through Flinders St (although I'd be happy to see it.)
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Wouldn't they containerise it? I can't imagine raw logs on flats running through Flinders St (although I'd be happy to see it.)
steven_h

Easier to load when not using containers and be similar to what PN used to do from Bairnsdale.  works well.
  DounutCereal Chief Train Controller

Location: Who knows.
Would also require new log wagons to convey said logs on rail, PN own the old ones they will not sell them to a competitor. PN are even less likely to chase the work themselves.
Gman_86
Not anymore, all were cut up in PNs last purges at North Geelong so the only route for anyone, PN included is either new wagons or log cradle containers plopped onto existing wagons (Which is a smarter idea in my opinion, collapsible tines for easy storage and less specialised wagons allows them to be very general purpose)
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I cannot imagine in my worst dreams trying to negotiate paths through the Metrop with Metro and Vline between Colac and Maryvale.
  Clyde Goodwin2 Chief Train Controller

I cannot imagine in my worst dreams trying to negotiate paths through the Metrop with Metro and Vline between Colac and Maryvale.
YM-Mundrabilla
I doubt they would try to get paths during peak hours and as there is not  all night running of suburbans they probably will path during those times.
  Clyde Goodwin2 Chief Train Controller

Wouldn't they containerise it? I can't imagine raw logs on flats running through Flinders St (although I'd be happy to see it.)

Easier to load when not using containers and be similar to what PN used to do from Bairnsdale.  works well.
bevans
You have i take it seen the Tasrail log containers that go on their convertable flat wagons.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
@clydeGoodwin2 please correct, sorry for being a grammar nazi Embarassed
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I cannot imagine in my worst dreams trying to negotiate paths through the Metrop with Metro and Vline between Colac and Maryvale.
I doubt they would try to get paths during peak hours and as there is not  all night running of suburbans they probably will path during those times.
Clyde Goodwin2
May well be true but, if so, could result in rail requiring twice the rolling stock for the task or build in some other rail inefficiency for road to take advantage of. The same might also apply to the proposed container port shuttles.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
What may influence how this traffic could be handled thru the metro and regional networks, is who the train operating company would be, in that should it be PN which I doubt, this loading could be accommodated on the daily Warrnambool at least as far as Melbourne but then problematic therefater because PN is not in the game.

It it were QUBE there maybe an opportunity to integrate the existing paper train operation in that the Dynon to Colac section is operated as a shuttle type extension of those services noting the loaded logs would be attached to empty boxes on the down leg to Maryvale and empty log/container flats on the loaded up service to Melbourne.

Depending on tonneages there's plenty of room in Colac yard which is connected to the main at one end (Melbourne) and has an internal loop for runrounds on the number 2 road.   If the schedule permitted it might be the train is loaded/reloaded at Colac meaning the possibility of a single crew doing a Melbourne-Colac round trip.  The Warrncourt Loop is underutilised but paths are an issue from Waurn Ponds to Geelong depending on time of day!!!

Interesting exercise to say the least!!!
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Someone who has no locomotive skin in the game on these routes might be an option too - i.e. they coordinate the wagons, and work with 2 different loco providers to make it happen.

Someone like Sadliers (probably not them though).

One other thing to consider in containers - would the sight of logs on open wagons rolling through the centre of Melbourne be an environmental issue, i.e. one that the paper company wouldn't want to get tangled up in?
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Loading the logs into containers on site, trucking them to Colac Yard and then transloading onto container flats would be the obvious solution, as you'd then only need a reach stacker or similar container loader at Colac Yard. Colac Yard itself is fairly small (3x roads, longest road 341m) but if a hook-and-pull arrangement with PN could be made for a daily service then that wouldn't be an issue. You mightn't even need a shunting loco - a railcar mover attachment for the container loader could be used to shunt hook-and-pull moves.

As for Colac Yard requiring new sidings - probably not, although some track rehabilitation mightn't go astray.
  DounutCereal Chief Train Controller

Location: Who knows.
Loading the logs into containers on site, trucking them to Colac Yard and then transloading onto container flats would be the obvious solution, as you'd then only need a reach stacker or similar container loader at Colac Yard. Colac Yard itself is fairly small (3x roads, longest road 341m) but if a hook-and-pull arrangement with PN could be made for a daily service then that wouldn't be an issue. You mightn't even need a shunting loco - a railcar mover attachment for the container loader could be used to shunt hook-and-pull moves.

As for Colac Yard requiring new sidings - probably not, although some track rehabilitation mightn't go astray.
LancedDendrite
Very good points there, though I can't help but feel poking logs into an enclosed container might be a bit tedious compared to the 'giant tongs' and tines like the old FA wagons and log transport trucks have where they can be grabbed and lifted straight out. That and the triple handling of plantation - to mill/unload/load into containers and load onto trucks - unload/reload onto the train might be a bit of a draw back and bottle neck to cover on a few K's just within Colac.

Using open, tine wagons would reduce the double handling and the trucks could be loaded at plantation, taken straight to the yard and transferred onto the train. The loader could potentially be rigged up like a container fork like Lanced suggests too

Just my two cents though, the ones running the operation will probably find the most efficient way of doing things if it proceedes and I'm looking forward to any new traffic in this part of the state
  Clyde Goodwin2 Chief Train Controller

Tasrail logtainers.
A LogTainer is an innovative, custom designed cradle that sits on top of a conventional intermodal rail wagon, enabling it to be used for the haulage of both logs and conventional shipping containers.  In addition to superior loading/unloading efficiencies and improved safety outcomes, the LogTainers provide TasRail with the flexibility to backhaul intermodal freight on log train services.
Locally designed and manufactured by Elphinstone Engineering of Triabunna, the LogTainers were developed in collaboration with TasRail.  TasRail purchased 40 of the LogTainer Units from Elphinstone, facilitated by a $1 million grant from the Australian Government.
More logs on rail means less road maintenance and safer roads, plus savings in road accident and pollution costs.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Someone who has no locomotive skin in the game on these routes might be an option too - i.e. they coordinate the wagons, and work with 2 different loco providers to make it happen.

Someone like Sadliers (probably not them though).

One other thing to consider in containers - would the sight of logs on open wagons rolling through the centre of Melbourne be an environmental issue, i.e. one that the paper company wouldn't want to get tangled up in?
james.au
Logs an environmental issue?
I assume that you mean an OH & S issue where the OH & S fairies would foresee logs flying everywhere along the platforms at Flinders Street or South Yarra.
Logs are carried all over the world by rail (even in Tasmania) on flat wagons and also in open wagons in some countries but we need have no worries here in Victoria as it will never happen much as it would be good for the environment and the community and that I would like to see it happen.
Since privatisation there is just too much fragmentation, self-interest and lack of overall control, vision and direction for freight traffic on BG involving the Metrop to succeed.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
I mean, will 'inner city lefties', once they see log traffic going through the centre of Melbourne make an issue out of it.  I know it happens all over the world and in Australia (including by road) but these often don't run through the centre of cities.

Fair point about if log traffic could cause platform hazards though - I hadn't thought of that.
  Clyde Goodwin2 Chief Train Controller

With the logtainers the supports fold down and can then be stacked atop each other allowing use of the Conflats for intermodal boxes.
Two uses out of one wagon.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I mean, will 'inner city lefties', once they see log traffic going through the centre of Melbourne make an issue out of it.  I know it happens all over the world and in Australia (including by road) but these often don't run through the centre of cities.

Fair point about if log traffic could cause platform hazards though - I hadn't thought of that.
james.au
'Fair point about if log traffic could cause platform hazards though - I hadn't thought of that.'

Absolutely no need for it to do so but this is Victoria 'the anti rail state'.

Don't anyone tell the fairies that the coiled plate and the steel slabs before them are/were not secured on the wagons.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
With the logtainers the supports fold down allowing a normal container to be mounted onto it as they normal mount on the wagon deck just sitting slightly higher they can take 20ft and 40ft boxes.
Two uses out of one wagon.
Clyde Goodwin2
Brilliant bit of kit Clyde, do you know when they were built? ie is it a recent development? (the $1M figure would suggest yes!)

BG
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

How did Bairnsdale - Geelong log traffic operate?

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