Lilydale Rail Crossing review and thus future of Meto rail returning to Helaesville

 
  PartumInFuturum Beginner

Hello all,

I am wishing to raise the awareness of the Yarra Valley Residents, the fokes of Melbourne and in fact all foke Nationally and Internationally, that have an interest in rail to the following.

1. Currently the Victorian Level Crossing Removal Authority are reviewing level crossing across the state.
One that certainly is on their list is the Rail line crossing Maroondah Highway in Lilydale, Victoria, Australia.

2. This rail line from Melbourne crosses from the south side of Maroondah Highway. and terminate on the northern side at the Lilydale Railway station

So this leaves the Level Crossing Removal Authority with three main options

a. leave the crossing unchanged, (unlikely)

b. design an under or over pass for the rail line to cross the highway (unlikely over, and doubt under will come back up in the distance to meet the old station platform. It may need a new platform further Nth of the existing old station. Or maybe go with an underground station, and continue the line in a cutting north under Beresford rd, on the way to Coldstream Station (to be reactivated as part of the Lilydale to Healesville rail line revival proposal.

c. Abandon the crossing and build a NEW LILYDALE station further south along or adjacent to the existing Rail line.
If this happens we will never get the metropolitan rail back to the Yarra Valley. And that will be a wrong !!

Anyways that the start of it. So keep watching the site and other media as I raise the question with Government, Council and the people, of what will happen to this crossing and the potential to get the MetroRail from Melbourne all the way back Coldstream, Yarra Glen and up to Healesville, Victoria, Australia, within the next 5 years.

#MetroTrain2Healesville



regards
David Broadbent

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  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I wish you luck, and suggest you develop the use of the spell check.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
There is no chance that the suburban rail network will be extended to Healesville within the next 30 years. None.

There is a small chance that within that time frame it will be extended as far as Coldstream, but that will be it.

If Coldstream is done, it will be primarily for operational reasons as the long term plan is to build a major stabling and maintenance facility there, similar to what is at Craigieburn, but that is quite a few years away at this stage.

Why? Cost, pure and simple. Funds for major capital works of this nature are limited, even at the best of times. There are far more pressing needs in areas that are experiencing much faster rates of growth, areas like Melton and Tarneit in the West, Beveridge and Woolert in the North and Clyde and Cranbourne in the South East. These areas are desperate for major upgrades.

Then there is Airport rail, the continued unpreecedented growth in regional rail  (and the forecasted need to electrify the Geelong and possibly even Ballarat lines within 20 years), and the need to make sure any major works in these areas don't have a negative impact on how the existing system operates. That means we will need to build Metro 2, and when we do, it will make Metro 1 look like a walk in the park, it will be at least twice as long, and probably more than three times as expensive as the current tunnel project.  

I could go on, but I think my point is made, there is just no way there will be an extension of the Melbourne Suburban Rail network to Healesville, not in the next 30 years in the very least. It is just not on the radar.

That said, with regards to the work being done at Lilydale, I for one do hope that it doesn't impede any future extension out to Coldstream, but the reality is even that isn't a guarantee.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Hello all,

I am wishing to raise the awareness of the Yarra Valley Residents, the fokes of Melbourne and in fact all foke Nationally and Internationally, that have an interest in rail to the following.

1. Currently the Victorian Level Crossing Removal Authority are reviewing level crossing across the state.
One that certainly is on their list is the Rail line crossing Maroondah Highway in Lilydale, Victoria, Australia.

2. This rail line from Melbourne crosses from the south side of Maroondah Highway. and terminate on the northern side at the Lilydale Railway station

So this leaves the Level Crossing Removal Authority with three main options

a. leave the crossing unchanged, (unlikely)

b. design an under or over pass for the rail line to cross the highway (unlikely over, and doubt under will come back up in the distance to meet the old station platform. It may need a new platform further Nth of the existing old station. Or maybe go with an underground station, and continue the line in a cutting north under Beresford rd, on the way to Coldstream Station (to be reactivated as part of the Lilydale to Healesville rail line revival proposal.

c. Abandon the crossing and build a NEW LILYDALE station further south along or adjacent to the existing Rail line.
If this happens we will never get the metropolitan rail back to the Yarra Valley. And that will be a wrong !!

Anyways that the start of it. So keep watching the site and other media as I raise the question with Government, Council and the people, of what will happen to this crossing and the potential to get the MetroRail from Melbourne all the way back Coldstream, Yarra Glen and up to Healesville, Victoria, Australia, within the next 5 years.

#MetroTrain2Healesville



regards
David Broadbent
PartumInFuturum
April 1st is fast approaching...
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
To the dismay of the RRA, as futile as the above may seem, it probably has a better chance than rebuilding Maryborough to Castlemaine does.

It would of course be good to see both, but that wont happen during the lifetime of many here.
  PartumInFuturum Beginner

Hello all,

I am wishing to raise the awareness of the Yarra Valley Residents, the fokes of Melbourne and in fact all foke Nationally and Internationally, that have an interest in rail to the following.

1. Currently the Victorian Level Crossing Removal Authority are reviewing level crossing across the state.
One that certainly is on their list is the Rail line crossing Maroondah Highway in Lilydale, Victoria, Australia.

2. This rail line from Melbourne crosses from the south side of Maroondah Highway. and terminate on the northern side at the Lilydale Railway station

So this leaves the Level Crossing Removal Authority with three main options

a. leave the crossing unchanged, (unlikely)

b. design an under or over pass for the rail line to cross the highway (unlikely over, and doubt under will come back up in the distance to meet the old station platform. It may need a new platform further Nth of the existing old station. Or maybe go with an underground station, and continue the line in a cutting north under Beresford rd, on the way to Coldstream Station (to be reactivated as part of the Lilydale to Healesville rail line revival proposal.

c. Abandon the crossing and build a NEW LILYDALE station further south along or adjacent to the existing Rail line.
If this happens we will never get the metropolitan rail back to the Yarra Valley. And that will be a wrong !!

Anyways that the start of it. So keep watching the site and other media as I raise the question with Government, Council and the people, of what will happen to this crossing and the potential to get the MetroRail from Melbourne all the way back Coldstream, Yarra Glen and up to Healesville, Victoria, Australia, within the next 5 years.

#MetroTrain2Healesville



regards
David Broadbent
April 1st is fast approaching...
trainbrain
interesting comment... thank you for no valid input.
  PartumInFuturum Beginner

To the dismay of the RRA, as futile as the above may seem, it probably has a better chance than rebuilding Maryborough to Castlemaine does.

It would of course be good to see both, but that wont happen during the lifetime of many here.
mikesyd
I am certain of one thing.. in my life time I have at least asked questions that needed asking for the benefit of future generation.
  PartumInFuturum Beginner

There is no chance that the suburban rail network will be extended to Healesville within the next 30 years. None.

There is a small chance that within that time frame it will be extended as far as Coldstream, but that will be it.

If Coldstream is done, it will be primarily for operational reasons as the long term plan is to build a major stabling and maintenance facility there, similar to what is at Craigieburn, but that is quite a few years away at this stage.


I could go on, but I think my point is made, there is just no way there will be an extension of the Melbourne Suburban Rail network to Healesville, not in the next 30 years in the very least. It is just not on the radar.

That said, with regards to the work being done at Lilydale, I for one do hope that it doesn't impede any future extension out to Coldstream, but the reality is even that isn't a guarantee.
Gman_86


Well I will say its NOW on the Radar, as I am making it be so.

As to your comment on NO available Funding. There is always funding available both Government and/or Private.

Its about how you can access the use of those funds is more the job task than building the project.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
interesting comment... thank you for no valid input.
PartumInFuturum
Whilst I agree that the comment wasn't really helpful (nor was quoting the entire OPs post for a cheap one liner) you might want to take a moment to reflect on a couple of things. I note that your RP profile says Beginner so it might be worth having a look around and checking out the rules for posting and get a feel for what some of the people here at RP are interested in.

Firstly you raised from the dead an almost 12 YO thread which is frowned upon by the mods (and most everyone else)

Secondly, you propose running trains beyond Yarra Glen which is currently the domain of the Yarra Valley (Tourist) Railway. Many people on RP are supporters and even volunteers with YVR so you can expect a frosty reception to that idea. (the Victorian Government and VicTrack are also supporters of YVR so I can't see them booting them out any time soon)

Thirdly you might want to check your spelling before posting as someone has already pointed out. There is nothing worse than trying to read a post full of spelling errors, it just distracts from your point.

Fourthly, what is the website that you refer us to? Is is LXRA or another?

I could go on but I won't bore everyone. Suffice to say that many of us here at RP would love to see the line extended to meet up with the YVR at Yarra Glen to boost their pax numbers. Anything beyond that would be an insult to the great work done by the volunteers out there especially after they were almost wiped out by a bushfire. However it is probably all just a pipe dream.

BG
  PartumInFuturum Beginner

I wish you luck, and suggest you develop the use of the spell check.
Valvegear
Thank you for both comments.

I wrote it in a very rapid hurry, prior to dashing to a meeting and did not spell check it, like I would normally do for any online post.

And as a Global travelling/working Engineer at 66yo, I really don't care if I spell using English or American versions of words, or even if I mix some Spanish or other languages spelling in my writing. For me its about getting down the crux of the point I am writing about at the time, so people can actually discuss the issue I am addressing/raising.

Regards
David
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
I wish you luck, and suggest you develop the use of the spell check.
Thank you for both comments.

I wrote it in a very rapid hurry, prior to dashing to a meeting and did not spell check it, like I would normally do for any online post.

And as a Global travelling/working Engineer at 66yo, I really don't care if I spell using English or American versions of words, or even if I mix some Spanish or other languages spelling in my writing. For me its about getting down the crux of the point I am writing about at the time, so people can actually discuss the issue I am addressing/raising.

Regards
David
PartumInFuturum
Most people around here are Grammar Nazis
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Well I will say its NOW on the Radar, as I am making it be so.
PartumInFuturum
BTW this is the radar

https://static.ptv.vic.gov.au/siteassets/PTV/PTV%20docs/Metro-rail-network-development-plan/PTV_Network-Development-Plan_Metropolitan-Rail_2016update.pdf

You may notice on or around P 129 that the PTV proposes a new maintenance and stabling facility for Lilydale but not much else.

BG
  PartumInFuturum Beginner

interesting comment... thank you for no valid input.
Whilst I agree that the comment wasn't really helpful (nor was quoting the entire OPs post for a cheap one liner) you might want to take a moment to reflect on a couple of things. I note that your RP profile says Beginner so it might be worth having a look around and checking out the rules for posting and get a feel for what some of the people here at RP are interested in.

Firstly you raised from the dead an almost 12 YO thread which is frowned upon by the mods (and most everyone else)

Secondly, you propose running trains beyond Yarra Glen which is currently the domain of the Yarra Valley (Tourist) Railway. Many people on RP are supporters and even volunteers with YVR so you can expect a frosty reception to that idea. (the Victorian Government and VicTrack are also supporters of YVR so I can't see them booting them out any time soon)

Thirdly you might want to check your spelling before posting as someone has already pointed out. There is nothing worse than trying to read a post full of spelling errors, it just distracts from your point.

Fourthly, what is the website that you refer us to? Is is LXRA or another?

I could go on but I won't bore everyone. Suffice to say that many of us here at RP would love to see the line extended to meet up with the YVR at Yarra Glen to boost their pax numbers. Anything beyond that would be an insult to the great work done by the volunteers out there especially after they were almost wiped out by a bushfire. However it is probably all just a pipe dream.

BG
BrentonGolding
Thank you BG.

Ok yes I am a Beginner, I accept that comment. If the "rule" of not  raising a dead post is valid, then humbly the mods should have set the forum software to close the post to new comments.

As to your YVR comments, these I take note of and respect.

I am seeing bigger picture things for this tourist rail operator, that I did not voice on this first post, so don't judge me as being anti YVA.

My core point is opening public discussion on the Lilydale Rail crossing.

As to my spelling, I cut the text and ran it though LibreOffice spell checker and it showed NO spelling errors, so as I just posted, I spell as I spell using Global spelling.

Its late now at 10.39pm and I have a 4am start so I need to get some sleep.

thank you for replying
regards
David
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Everything old is new again... Rolling Eyes

  • The level crossing at Maroondah Hwy, Lilydale is on the current State Government's list of 50 level crossings it wishes to remove. It's #50 on the list - a low priority with slated completion towards 2020-2022. Rail over with a new station above Maroondah Hwy is the obvious and likely solution, road-over is a distant second. Closing the crossing and replacing it with the proposed Lilydale Bypass and a rebuilt John St bridge (with duplicated track above, a widened road underneath and a 4.6m height limit) is an unorthodox but practical solution. Road-under is difficult due to drainage issues - there is a creek that runs under the road very close by. Rail under is laughably impractical due to the uphill railway line grades and the aforementioned drainage issues.
  • There is a plan for a large Epping-style train maintenance facility for Metro at the end of the Lilydale line. There is no immediate pressure to build this facility as the Epping and Bayswater currently provide adequate maintenance capacity for the X'Trapolis fleet. Construction of the facility is contingent on duplication from Mooroolbark to Lilydale. There has been no decision on location - Lilydale Yard itself and Coldstream are the options.  
  • Past Lilydale, the railway line to Healesville is almost completely ensconced by a Green Wedge and a correspondingly low population. Coldstream is the only township with room for population growth within the current, recently updated planning scheme. If the railway line is reopened back to Coldstream, it will only be in order to service the train maintenance facility that would be built there - not passengers.
  • The line from Coldstream to Yarra Glen would require >$30 million to restore to running order, even without electrification. For example, there's over a linear kilometre's worth of bridges between Yering (Lilydale Airport) and Yarra Glen, for instance. Every single bridge on that section will need to be replaced.
  • Yarra Glen to Healesville is the domain of the Yarra Valley Railway. Giving control of that section to Metro is fundamentally incompatible with the continuing existence of the YVR.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
As to my spelling, I cut the text and ran it though LibreOffice spell checker and it showed NO spelling errors, so as I just posted, I spell as I spell using Global spelling.
"PartumInFuturum"
You may care to consider what first impression you created on a forum whose language is English. Using "foke" instead of "folk" signals that here's a bloke who doesn't know or doesn't care.  It wasn't a good start to something which you apparently want to be taken seriously.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Most people around here a Grammar Nazis
Dangersdan707
Snigger....... "a Grammar Nazis". That is very poor grammar young man!

BG
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Most people around here are Grammar Nazis
Snigger....... "a Grammar Nazis". That is very poor grammar young man!

BG
BrentonGolding
Well yes, BG You and I know that Very well. Even the Mods Spell With Poor grammar From time to time. I have confessed to Not being the best With my grammar and spelling.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

It's nice to see you have interest in the level crossing removal project. For the Lilydale crossing there are a few more options that could be considered. Such as providing a new Lilydale road bypass, as shown on the Melways. Moving the station south of the crossing can be considered as an option. A rail under/over solution will need to happen if the station is on the other-side. Benefits in this option would be able to have better bus transfer connection and could rejuvate the area.

As for the topic that has been covered before. A rail-line to Healesville will not happen. It's rural so there isn't much benefit extending the rail that far out. If you wanted a cheaper solution maybe have a better bus network in the area. But there are many other more urgent areas inside Melbourne that need a better bus service.

As for rail-extensions/electrifications should be prioritised in areas where housing will be developed. Numbering is the rough order it should be.

This is a rough guide how the rail projects should be in order. Costs are just a guide. Note the costs may include grade seperation/s.
High capacity signalling, new trains, upgraded tracks, new stabling and grade seperations are continual investments to the rail network that needs to be accounted as well.

1) Melton electrification (1 billion)
2) Clyde Rail (600 million)
3) Melbourne Metro 2 Tunnel (16 billion)
3) Wyndham Vale/Tarneit are electrified (1 billion)
4) Airport Rail (3 billion) and Dandenong Quadding (5 billion)
5) Baxter rail line (800 million)
6) Wallan line (1 billion)
7) Rowville line (3 billion)
8) Geelong electrification (2 billion)
9) Doncaster rail line (3 billion)

If I missed anything let me know. I know it's done to death, but this is a good general guide.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!


Well I will say its NOW on the Radar, as I am making it be so.

As to your comment on NO available Funding. There is always funding available both Government and/or Private.

Its about how you can access the use of those funds is more the job task than building the project.
"PartumInFuturum"


What radar? Are you saying that you are putting this on the radar as far as Railpage is concerned? If so, well fair enough then, although you're certainly not the 1st to ask such a question.

Or are you suggesting that you are putting this on the agenda somewhere where it might actually matter? If so I think its only fair to ask who you are, and which group of people you represent (if any) to be lobbying for such a project.

As I and others have said, their are more pressing needs, extending the Lilydale line is not a priority, nor should it be.

Also, I am aware that you're main purpose in starting this thread was to discuss the Maroondah HWY level crossing, so I will comment on that. The truth of the matter is, it is still a few years away. The LXRA haven't even started thinking about it yet, well not with any detail anyway and depending on the results of November's election, it may not even happen.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Everything old is new again... Rolling Eyes

  • The level crossing at Maroondah Hwy, Lilydale is on the current State Government's list of 50 level crossings it wishes to remove. It's #50 on the list - a low priority with slated completion towards 2020-2022. Rail over with a new station above Maroondah Hwy is the obvious and likely solution, road-over is a distant second. Closing the crossing and replacing it with the proposed Lilydale Bypass and a rebuilt John St bridge (with duplicated track above, a widened road underneath and a 4.6m height limit) is an unorthodox but practical solution. Road-under is difficult due to drainage issues - there is a creek that runs under the road very close by. Rail under is laughably impractical due to the uphill railway line grades and the aforementioned drainage issues.

    There is a lot of discussion about how the Lilydale crossing removal could be done, in the earlier pages of the"50 level crossings to be removed" thread.  No point in repeating here.

  • There is a plan for a large Epping-style train maintenance facility for Metro at the end of the Lilydale line. There is no immediate pressure to build this facility as the Epping and Bayswater currently provide adequate maintenance capacity for the X'Trapolis fleet. Construction of the facility is contingent on duplication from Mooroolbark to Lilydale. There has been no decision on location - Lilydale Yard itself and Coldstream are the options.

    As has been mentioned elsewhere, duplication from Mooroolbark, and removal of the Lilydale crossing, will both happen "eventually".  Whichever one is done first must make allowance for the other.  Ideally they would be both done at the same time.
     
  • Past Lilydale, the railway line to Healesville is almost completely ensconced by a Green Wedge and a correspondingly low population. Coldstream is the only township with room for population growth within the current, recently updated planning scheme. If the railway line is reopened back to Coldstream, it will only be in order to service the train maintenance facility that would be built there - not passengers.

    There may be a low population locally, but Lilydale station is a hub for a vast hinterland.  Commuters drive in from Kinglake, Dixons Creek, Yarra Glen, Healesville, Seville, Yarra Junction, Warburton and the Dandenongs, and as a result the station car parks are full by about 7.30.  There is a suggestion in this week's local paper, saying that if the line were to be extended to Coldstream, then many of these people would park and catch the train from there, simultaneously giving them a shorter drive, and at the same time freeing up some parking space for the locals at Lilydale.   Therefore, reopening to Coldstream would not only be to service a maintenance facility.

  • The line from Coldstream to Yarra Glen would require >$30 million to restore to running order, even without electrification. For example, there's over a linear kilometre's worth of bridges between Yering (Lilydale Airport) and Yarra Glen, for instance. Every single bridge on that section will need to be replaced.

    In the same way that the YVR has an order in council for the Yarra Glen-Healesville section, the Coldstream - YG section has been given to Bicycle Victoria, who have apparently done nothing with it.  Most of the bridges actually no longer exist, including the long one over the river.  They were burnt to the ground in the 2009 fire, and were riddled with white ants anyway.  Replacement costs would be horrendous - don't even think about extension beyond Coldstream.  (it could probably go as far as Yering, but what for?)
     

  • Yarra Glen to Healesville is the domain of the Yarra Valley Railway. Giving control of that section to Metro is fundamentally incompatible with the continuing existence of the YVR.

    The YVR says that its rebuilt bridges (also lost in 2009) are of main line standard.  But trains from Lilydale will never get there.
LancedDendrite
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
There may be a low population locally, but Lilydale station is a hub for a vast hinterland. Commuters drive in from Kinglake, Dixons Creek, Yarra Glen, Healesville, Seville, Yarra Junction, Warburton and the Dandenongs, and as a result the station car parks are full by about 7.30. There is a suggestion in this week's local paper, saying that if the line were to be extended to Coldstream, then many of these people would park and catch the train from there, simultaneously giving them a shorter drive, and at the same time freeing up some parking space for the locals at Lilydale. Therefore, reopening to Coldstream would not only be to service a maintenance facility.
Lad_Porter
Extending to Coldstream purely for Pork and Ride patronage is ludicrous. Say you build a 500 space carpark at Coldstream (without the local residents tarring and feathering you). That's an extra 500-ish train service patrons a day - and due to the nature of free commuter parking, it will invariably only serve early bird commuters. That'sa bit over half a trainload, twice a day. Trains going to Coldstream between peaks would be moving air, not passengers. Walking and bus services are what drive rail service patronage. Pork and Ride commuters just happen to complain the loudest and are perceived as prized 'choice commuters' - those who could choose to drive all the way into work etc, but instead deign to use the train for part of their commute as well.

'Freeing up parking space for locals' is laughable - 'locals' shouldn't be driving to the station in the first place! Walk, bike or ride a route bus.

Part of the reason that Lilydale Station carpark fills up by 07:30 is because the bus services in the area are, to be quite frank, smeg. Bus service frequency and timetabling improvements are the actual answer to extending the Lilydale line. The bus infrastructure itself is fine and Lilydale is a natural hub for bus services to the Yarra Valley and Dandenongs 'hinterland'.

In the same way that the YVR has an order in council for the Yarra Glen-Healesville section, the Coldstream - YG section has been given to Bicycle Victoria, who have apparently done nothing with it. Most of the bridges actually no longer exist, including the long one over the river. They were burnt to the ground in the 2009 fire, and were riddled with white ants anyway. Replacement costs would be horrendous - don't even think about extension beyond Coldstream.
Lad_Porter
Bicycle Network (Bicycle Victoria) does not own or maintain any bike trails. It is a lobby group. State & Local Governments pay for the construction of rail trails that Bicycle Network lobbies them to build. Local Governments pick up the tab for ongoing maintenance generally.

An Order-In-Council is not a corridor lease. It is specific to third-parties running rail services on a Victrack rail corridor. There are numerous other contractual differences but it's not worth going into. Suffice to say: Tourist & heritage railways generally have Orders In Council (but would very much like to get leases), and everyone else that uses VicTrack land has a lease of some kind.

Yarra Ranges Council is in the process of designing a bike trail that includes a rail trail on the Lilydale - Yarra Glen section. Victrack has not leased the Lilydale - Yarra Glen rail corridor to the council as both parties are waiting for the trail master plan to be completed and funding to be sought and/or allocated.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!


An Order-In-Council is not a corridor lease. It is specific to third-parties running rail services on a Victrack rail corridor. There are numerous other contractual differences but it's not worth going into. Suffice to say: Tourist & heritage railways generally have Orders In Council (but would very much like to get leases), and everyone else that uses VicTrack land has a lease of some kind.

Yarra Ranges Council is in the process of designing a bike trail that includes a rail trail on the Lilydale - Yarra Glen section. Victrack has not leased the Lilydale - Yarra Glen rail corridor to the council as both parties are waiting for the trail master plan to be completed and funding to be sought and/or allocated.
"LancedDendrite"


Lanced, We have never met, and I know it is just a picture you have chosen to represent yourself, not a picture of you, but knowledgable and detailed responses like this continually make me think that you actually are Rob Sitch's character from Utopia, Your insight is priceless. Thank you.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Lanced, We have never met, and I know it is just a picture you have chosen to represent yourself, not a picture of you, but knowledgable and detailed responses like this continually make me think that you actually are Rob Sitch's character from Utopia, Your insight is priceless. Thank you.
Gman_86
Agreed. My theory is that he is a bigwig at Infrastructure Australia or it's Victorian equivalent. You know how they say you should take a 5>10 minute break from your computer at work every hour? IA being the Public Service with their French-style 35 hour working week are probably forced to take it on pain of death.

This is when this gentleman (or lady for that matter, you never can tell on the interwebs) rushes off to the loo with their laptop and becomes LanceD, RP Contributor!

BG
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
There may be a low population locally, but Lilydale station is a hub for a vast hinterland. Commuters drive in from Kinglake, Dixons Creek, Yarra Glen, Healesville, Seville, Yarra Junction, Warburton and the Dandenongs, and as a result the station car parks are full by about 7.30. There is a suggestion in this week's local paper, saying that if the line were to be extended to Coldstream, then many of these people would park and catch the train from there, simultaneously giving them a shorter drive, and at the same time freeing up some parking space for the locals at Lilydale. Therefore, reopening to Coldstream would not only be to service a maintenance facility.
Extending to Coldstream purely for Pork and Ride patronage is ludicrous. Say you build a 500 space carpark at Coldstream (without the local residents tarring and feathering you). That's an extra 500-ish train service patrons a day - and due to the nature of free commuter parking, it will invariably only serve early bird commuters. That'sa bit over half a trainload, twice a day. Trains going to Coldstream between peaks would be moving air, not passengers. Walking and bus services are what drive rail service patronage. Pork and Ride commuters just happen to complain the loudest and are perceived as prized 'choice commuters' - those who could choose to drive all the way into work etc, but instead deign to use the train for part of their commute as well.

'Freeing up parking space for locals' is laughable - 'locals' shouldn't be driving to the station in the first place! Walk, bike or ride a route bus.

Part of the reason that Lilydale Station carpark fills up by 07:30 is because the bus services in the area are, to be quite frank, smeg. Bus service frequency and timetabling improvements are the actual answer to extending the Lilydale line. The bus infrastructure itself is fine and Lilydale is a natural hub for bus services to the Yarra Valley and Dandenongs 'hinterland'.

In the same way that the YVR has an order in council for the Yarra Glen-Healesville section, the Coldstream - YG section has been given to Bicycle Victoria, who have apparently done nothing with it. Most of the bridges actually no longer exist, including the long one over the river. They were burnt to the ground in the 2009 fire, and were riddled with white ants anyway. Replacement costs would be horrendous - don't even think about extension beyond Coldstream.
Bicycle Network (Bicycle Victoria) does not own or maintain any bike trails. It is a lobby group. State & Local Governments pay for the construction of rail trails that Bicycle Network lobbies them to build. Local Governments pick up the tab for ongoing maintenance generally.

An Order-In-Council is not a corridor lease. It is specific to third-parties running rail services on a Victrack rail corridor. There are numerous other contractual differences but it's not worth going into. Suffice to say: Tourist & heritage railways generally have Orders In Council (but would very much like to get leases), and everyone else that uses VicTrack land has a lease of some kind.

Yarra Ranges Council is in the process of designing a bike trail that includes a rail trail on the Lilydale - Yarra Glen section. Victrack has not leased the Lilydale - Yarra Glen rail corridor to the council as both parties are waiting for the trail master plan to be completed and funding to be sought and/or allocated.
LancedDendrite
I will bow to superior knowledge.  All I know, as a resident of the Yarra Glen area who frequently gets the train from Lilydale, is the following:

  • If I do not get to the station by about 7.30, I will not be able to park.  What do I do then?
  • If it were possible to end my drive at Coldstream I would do so, and so, I expect, would many others.
  • I do not use the bus from Yarra Glen, because the service is inadequate - especially if I expect to be delayed.
  • There is nowhere to park at Yarra Glen anyway, and I live too far out to walk or bike.
  • For less than a full day I will drive to Eltham, where a 5 hour park is always available next to the tennis courts.  Not my preferred option, but it works.

The local paper article I referred to is a letter to the editor, written by someone from Mount Evelyn.  It reflects the mounting frustration in the area about the inadequacy and over-use of the Lilydale station.  Another letter on the same page, from someone who gets the train from Mooroolbark, complains that when the train reaches Mooroolbark there are often no seats left  This also indicates that something has to be done about Lilydale.

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