Australian cricketer Cameron Bancroft charged with ball tampering as Steve Smith admits he helped hatch the plan

 
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
generations of bowlers kept one side shiny by polishing it on the creams, and swung the ball.
Valvegear

So, how is this any less "tampering" than any other method of altering the condition of the ball? Wink

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  P492 Beginner

generations of bowlers kept one side shiny by polishing it on the creams, and swung the ball.

So, how is this any less "tampering" than any other method of altering the condition of the ball? Wink
Graham4405


Because

Quoted: From BBC Sport - Cricket

Law 42 (Fair and unfair play)

3. The match ball - changing its condition
(a) Any fielder may:
(i) polish the ball provided that no artificial substance is used and that such polishing wastes no time.
(ii) remove mud from the ball under the supervision of the umpire.
(iii) dry a wet ball on a towel.


(b) It is unfair for anyone to rub the ball on the ground for any reason, interfere with any of the seams or the surface of the ball, use any implement, or take any other action whatsoever which is likely to alter the condition of the ball, except as permitted in (a) above.

A change to the law six years ago included, for the first time, a provision to award five penalty runs to the batting side "in the event of any fielder changing the condition of the ball unfairly".


  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
generations of bowlers kept one side shiny by polishing it on the creams, and swung the ball.

So, how is this any less "tampering" than any other method of altering the condition of the ball? Wink


Because

Quoted: From BBC Sport - Cricket

Law 42 (Fair and unfair play)

3. The match ball - changing its condition
(a) Any fielder may:
(i) polish the ball provided that no artificial substance is used and that such polishing wastes no time.
(ii) remove mud from the ball under the supervision of the umpire.
(iii) dry a wet ball on a towel.


(b) It is unfair for anyone to rub the ball on the ground for any reason, interfere with any of the seams or the surface of the ball, use any implement, or take any other action whatsoever which is likely to alter the condition of the ball, except as permitted in (a) above.

A change to the law six years ago included, for the first time, a provision to award five penalty runs to the batting side "in the event of any fielder changing the condition of the ball unfairly".


P492
Thanks!
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Reading the news from here in Thailand seems Warner has 2 silks on the case who have (it states) asked CA for transcripts of the interview with Warner and presumably the head of integrity those I would suggest there were others in the room.

Now starting to look like warner is going to make a deal of it.

Just just doesn't seem to be in the case of Warner (refer to my previous post about his press conference) any admission of guilt or responsibility taken for what was a terrible incident of pre-meditated cheating.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

I think there is a fair chance that Cricket Australia has deliberately gone too far with the ban from domestic cricket applying for the full period of the international suspension, with the intention of a partial lifting of the domestic cricket ban being a concession that can be offered in negotiations.

Allowing them to return to their state teams for the second half of the 2018-19 domestic season would be a good option. NSW is where the infamous win at all costs attitude emanates from, and so Smith and Warner would be immediately reinstated as soon as eligible.

There is no possible method of effectively challenging a ban from international cricket, since the body imposing the ban is the same body which selects the national team. Unlike most national sports, Cricket Australia do not have any objective selection criteria (a decision which could see them lose their government funding if they don't come into line before 2020) or transparency regarding the selection process, and can select or refuse to select any player for any reason they choose.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Unlike most national sports, Cricket Australia do not have any objective selection criteria (a decision which could see them lose their government funding if they don't come into line before 2020) or transparency regarding the selection process, and can select or refuse to select any player for any reason they choose.
justapassenger
Which goes to show that things just don't change. Sid Barnes, one of the best batsmen in the world, was omitted from an Australian team in 1951-52, and, of course, no reason was given. (This led to a celebrated defamation case which Barnes won.) The same thing happened with the selection of the touring team to South Africa in 1949-50, when Keith Miller, arguably the best all-rounder playing, was left out. The opposite has also happened; players selected when they certainly had done nothing to deserve it. Les Joslin, who went to England with Lawry's team in 1968, is just one example.
CA is nothing but an old boys' benevolent dictatorship, and the benevolence goes mainly to the inordinate number of "hangers-on". There were 16 support staff and 15 players in South Africa, which is absurd by any standards. Pat Howard is one . . . High Performance Manager", for God's sake. I once asked CA exactly what that job description entailed, and was rewarded with a deafening silence. I suspect that nobody really knows.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

One question though that needs a good answer is who showed Warner how to tamper with a ball in the first place as it is a fine art and not something that anyone can get right just by sandpapering anywhere on the ball it has to be in specific places on the ball so some ex test player may have passed on this info on to Warner and then someone had to show the ex Test Player and so it goes back a long way by the look of it.
Now; apparently you know a bit about it; so do I; so I'd suggest it's not as much rocket science as you may think. One shiny side, one rough side has been the mantra for as long as I can remember, and generations of bowlers kept one side shiny by polishing it on the creams, and swung the ball.  It has been relatively recently that "reverse swing" has been introduced into the lexicon, although it has probably been used unnoticed in the past. The big difference is, of course, that the rough side was caused by fair wear and tear, and not artificial aids like sandpaper (or angle grinders.)
Valvegear
What I was trying to get across was a simple point though, everybody has to learn it from someone and those that pass the knowledge on so to speak might also pass on things that were not cricket, but if you can get away with them without anyone seeing it then it could give you and advantage. As in all things you get taught the good and also sometimes the bad at times. It happens everywhere not just in cricket plenty of other sports have had every thing from knee capping to performance drugs used.

And before you go and say I am exagerating about the knee capping check up on Tonya Harding in the Ice Skating fiasco. She was not directly implicated in the actual act but her husband was and she was stripped of a few awards including her 1991 world silver meadlist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonya_Harding

I am not suggesting that I know more about it just asking a simple question though but you Valegear remind me of the three players involved in this, say a lot, but not answer any question's.

This most probably goes right back to the first game of cricket ever played in Australia though. But not so openly and brazenlly as has been done here, glad though to see that the cameramen or whoever was tipped off aboutit, though as Australia was already to accuse others of cheating and then got caught red handed doing it them selves. I would have thought that any of them with enough brain cells between their ears to actually think would think in South Africa we will have to be on our toes and not do anything other than play cricket according to the rules, and also the fact that the local media (Television) is most probably going to monitor our every move after the past reporting of South African players cheating.  And they went out and did it and got caught and are now crying over spilt milk, tough you do the crime you do the time.

Personally I don't think CA went far enough in my opinion they should be banned from cricket for life, all forms of cricket even beach cricket to show the world and other cricket players that cheating is not part of the sport anywhere. Sorry if this upsets some, but a example should be made to show others that they risk everything if they cheat.  Big money has ruined what was once good sports all of them.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I am not suggesting that I know more about it just asking a simple question though but you Valegear remind me of the three players involved in this, say a lot, but not answer any question's.
"DJPeters"
Whoa! I wasn't having a shot at you in any way and I'm very sorry if my clumsy wording offended you. It was obvious to me that you do know about it (i.e. polishing one side and leaving the other rough) and I was acknowledging the fact.
I agree with you that has been conniving and scheming and outright cheating in sport for years, from performance enhancing drugs, assaults, sabotage and so on.
Some players have recently been caught ball-tampering ( Atherton, Waqar Younis, du Plessis et al ) but what we just saw was organised team cheating. In my opinion, not only did they deserve to be punished for that, but also for bringing the game into disrepute. The old saying was, "A man is not hanged for stealing a sheep; he is hanged so that others will not steal sheep." I would not have minded if they were rubbed out for longer. Sport needs cleaning. Fines for players are a joke; just petty cash to these guys. They have now been belted in the hip pocket and about time too.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Steve Smith is the first of the three players to confirm he will not be appealing his sanction. Cricket Australia has announced that any necessary appeal hearings will be heard next Wednesday.

I wouldn't expect that to preclude him accepting selection for NSW if the ACA and CA come to an agreement that an earlier return to state cricket will be allowed.

EDIT: Bancroft accepts too, leaving only Warner yet to confirm either way.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Does anyone else believe there maybe a divide between Warner and Smith/Bancroft?  If I was going to send Warner to the wolves as Smith, I would accept my BAN and move on like he has placing more pressure on Warner to accept the outcome and roll with it as he according to the media as the instigator of the plan?
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Does anyone else believe there maybe a divide between Warner and Smith/Bancroft?  If I was going to send Warner to the wolves as Smith, I would accept my BAN and move on like he has placing more pressure on Warner to accept the outcome and roll with it as he according to the media as the instigator of the plan?
bevans

Warner has consistently been a day behind everyone else in this saga.  A day later fessing up (to CA management), a day later with his tearful apology, etc  If he's a day late with his acceptance of the ban, then this post will seem ridiculous Smile.

But Absolutely there is a divide.  Smith - so long as he doesn't embarrass CA any more (by admitting anymore, or implicating anyone else) - has a pathway back to International Cricket.  Bancroft has probably been promised the same, and no doubt threatened with perpetual non-selection for WA if he doesn't play ball.

Warner is unlikely to play for Australia again under any circumstances anyway.  He has much less to lose with an appeal, though his reputation might be further sullied with further admissions.

I have no sympathy for Warner, but I think he has pretty decent grounds for appeal.  The charge is not the ball tampering, but bringing the game into disrepute.  On that basis:
- Warner was never caught on TV cheating
- Warner didn't go to a press conference after a days play and admit to cheating.
- It was Cricket Australia (correctly or otherwise) that publicly declared Warner was the ring leader and trashed his reputation, not the other way around.
- Warner could claim he was scapegoated for the team's systematic cheating (because he had the designated role of performing the tampering), even though it was others who were caught and others who gave him that role in the first place.

If I were Warner's lawyers, I'd be arguing for a 2 match ban for tampering, permission to play in the IPL, and compensation from CA if the BCCI prevented him from playing this year.  I doubt CA would want any of this to end up in a *real* court, where discovery applies, and people are required to give public testimony under oath.

Unfortunately I don't think we're ever going to get to the truth of things now.  The only person likely to talk is Warner, and he has no credibility.

I have no sympathy for Warner, but I think the way this is heading is for him to get a nice little undisclosed 7 figure settlement (6 figures after his lawyers get their cut), have his 12 month holiday and then play out his career in the various T20 tournaments around the world in places where his "skills" will be better appreciated.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
At least Smith and Warner can be assured of lucrative commentary jobs in the future with Channel Nein and other broadcasters in much the same way as the drug and charity cheat Warne already does Razz
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Warner is expected to contest his ban according to some reports and "His legal team has reportedly requested transcripts from interviews Cricket Australia conducted during its investigation into ball tampering"
It is easy to pile onto someone when they are down and whilst I am not condoning this behaviour in any way I think some posters are downplaying Warners contribution to Australian and other cricket.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/219889.html

A test batting average over 48 is top notch, especially as an opener. I have had the pleasure of watching him bat at the G and whilst I don't like the sledging he is a brilliant batsman.

BG
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

At least Smith and Warner can be assured of lucrative commentary jobs in the future with Channel Nein and other broadcasters in much the same way as the drug and charity cheat Warne already does Razz
bingley hall
Bing, not sure if Warner will get a gig at Nein or another network. Watched him on a sports programme where he and other high profile people were asked random questions.
His quiz was something along the lines of, 2+2-1X3 equals? Not my thing mate, not even attempting an answer.

And Warnie I find is entertaining, and was banging Liz Hurley
Her accent and voice, she could read me the phone book, Laughing
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Warner is expected to contest his ban according to some reports
BrentonGolding
Or not...... Warner has just announced he is accepting as well.

BG
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

I have no sympathy for Warner, but I think he has pretty decent grounds for appeal.
djf01
He has now confirmed he is accepting the sanction.

If I were Warner's lawyers, I'd be arguing for a 2 match ban for tampering, permission to play in the IPL, and compensation from CA if the BCCI prevented him from playing this year.
djf01
CA has not withdrawn permission to play in the IPL, any other ICC-recognised overseas T20 leagues, other overseas domestic cricket or club cricket in any nation.

Any problem he has with his exclusion from the IPL is something he should take up with the BCCI, for which he would need to try his luck in the Indian court system.

… have his 12 month holiday and then play out his career in the various T20 tournaments around the world in places where his "skills" will be better appreciated.
djf01
He can start on that straight away as the CA suspension doesn't apply to any T20 league other than the BBL, he simply needs to find a tournament that will take him.

The English are far more open to ball tampering than we are, T20 Blast would be an ideal start. Bonus - there are no Super Rugby clubs in England, i.e. no chance of sharing a hotel with SBW like he did in South Africa.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
On a different note, we have the Test match statistics available.

The top in each grouping are:-
Batting.
Paine 254 runs at 42.33
Bancroft 290 runs at 36.25
Warner 217 runs at 36.16
Smith 190 runs at 23.75

Bowling.
Cummins 26 wickets at 21.00
Starc 17 wickets at 29.17
Hazelwood 16 wickets at 33.68
Lyon 17 wickets at 44.64.

Fielding Dismissals.
Paine 18 catches; 1 stumping
Bancroft and Smith 10 catches each.

The standout performer is obviously Cummins who really bowled well.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

On a different note, we have the Test match statistics available.
Valvegear


To quote Jim Maxwell "I don't ever recall being so disappointed in an Australian side".

And that goes beyond the ball fiasco.  It really was a p*ss week effort in almost every respect.


The top in each grouping are:-
Batting.
Paine 254 runs at 42.33
Bancroft 290 runs at 36.25
Warner 217 runs at 36.16
Smith 190 runs at 23.75
Valvegear


Bancroft was clearly the pick of the batters, the only one - except perhaps Paine and Cummins - who showed any real fight.  Bancroft was the leading run scorer, only played 3 tests - and was sawn off by Warner precipitating (another) collapse in his last bat.  


Bowling.
Cummins 26 wickets at 21.00
Starc 17 wickets at 29.17
Hazelwood 16 wickets at 33.68
Lyon 17 wickets at 44.64.
Valvegear


And Starc's figures now need to be looked on with a great deal of suspicion.

The standout performer is obviously Cummins who really bowled well.
Valvegear


As for the Marsh boys, Sean has continued his happy knack of making runs at the right time, in the lead up to selection for tours or series.  Then, after showing early promise, being worked out by the opposition bowlers.  Mitchell has re-affirmed what many of us have long suspected: he's a great front runner.  When Australia is on top, he's such a powerful stroke-maker he can really sink the boot in and turn a slight lead in the game into an unassailable position.  But up against a bowling attack which is on top, he just doesn't have a straight enough bat to survive.

As for the bowling attack, I don't know what to make of it, other than perhaps many of them were a bit too reliant on Warner to get the ball moving rather than bending their backs.

The only surprise from this series is they didn't drop Usman Khawaja after the first batting collapse.

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