Australian cricketer Cameron Bancroft charged with ball tampering as Steve Smith admits he helped hatch the plan

 
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
Get rid of the whole team and send over the Queensland Bulls after their shield final win.

https://wwos.nine.com.au/2018/03/28/02/11/cricket-australia-ceo-sutherland-media-steve-smith-david-warner-darren-lehmann-cheating

Queenslanders?   Nooooooo  !!!!!
djf01
At least they weren't cheating, that we know of anyway.

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  x31 Chief Commissioner
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Magellan Financial has just now terminated it's 3 year agreement with Cricket Australia.

The fallout continues.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Warner and Bancroft (sadly) have not lost their sponsors.

https://www.theage.com.au/business/companies/asics-terminates-sponsorship-of-warner-and-bancroft-20180329-p4z6u2.html
x31
Huh? The link you posted says otherwise.
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Magellan Financial has just now terminated it's 3 year agreement with Cricket Australia.

The fallout continues.
x31
Good.

Sighting that these events are inconsistent with our values of integrity, or words to that effect.

Id like to hear Qantas' thoughts since they're the "Spirit of Australia"??
I'd allege that these events are clearly contrary to Qantas' motto, and also the spirit of the game. As such, following Magellan Financial's example would be justified.

To Cricket Australia the message is very clear - The standard you walk past, is the standard you accept.

Regards
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
How has Darren Lehman been able to escape the damage or could this be temporary?
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
How has Darren Lehman been able to escape the damage or could this be temporary?
bevans
I think its because he rang down to the boundary line to enquire WTF is going on??

From this, I believe Cricket Australia has determined that he had no idea what had happened, hence his question after seeing the footage himself.

Make of that what you will...

Regards
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Smith looked genuinely contrite in this evening's press conference. The media should now lay off him and let him get his life sorted out.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Lehmann has resigned, and the next Test will be his last.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
I still have some sympathy for Bancroft, but not the other two. They have form:
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/the-email-that-shows-umpires-had-raised-concerns-about-smith-and-warner-before-20180329-p4z6xh.html

Although not on the same scale as the recent events in South Africa, they clearly demonstrate an attitude problem which has been allowed to fester and grow.

Anyone else notice the coincidence of the leadership group wanting to tamper with the ball after both failed with the bat?
  djf01 Chief Commissioner


You obviously think this is an isolated event. I think it's been going on all series actually, my opinion. When the ball is reverse swinging in the 30th over on a green pitch, come on, you have to be asking questions. I still maintain the whole team has to go, fresh faces and rebuild. Lets see how good Starc and Hazlewood bowl now going forward.
LowndesJ515

I'm sadly and somewhat reluctantly coming to a similar conclusion: this (ball tampering using sandpaper) has been happening for some time, and more than the 3 convicted parties knew about it and organised it.

If Warner really was giving Bancroft a tutorial on how to rough up the ball with sandpaper, you can only conclude it's something Warner has done before.

Secondly, I smell one huge stinking rat coming from Cricket Australia.

All three suspendees come out with exactly the same teary apology, and none of them answer any of the blindingly obvious questions, and pointedly none of them endorse the findings of the Ian Roy's enquiry.  There was no reason not to acknowledge the report's findings (they were the only three involved), other than they know it's not true.

Lehmann, who was completely exonerated by Roy, (allowed to) resigned the next day.

Mitchell Starc, who has been complaining of calf soreness, but played the 3rd test anyway, is now too injured to play in the 4th test and the IPL, even though a proper assessment of his injury has yet to be made.  I know it's Mitchell Starc and he's chronically injured, but this stinks like an unofficial suspension to me.

Why was Glenn Maxwell sent over as one of the potential replacements?  Originally they made a big thing/good news story of Matt Renshaw getting the call up to replace Bancroft.  But after the preliminary results of the Roy enquiry, they hurriedly added Burns and Maxwell.  From Maxwell's inclusion I can only conclude they may have faced the prospect of suspending either Handscomb or Lyon as well.

So this is what I now think happened - and this will no doubt change as there is clearly more to this story to come - :

Warner has been the "ball manager" within the team for some time.  His job is to prepare the ball at the direction of the bowlers.  

From at least the 1st test of this series - but for got knows how long before that - Warner's been doing this with sandpaper.  There is only circumstantial evidence for this.  The South Africans certainly suspect this.

Following Warner's various indiscretions on this tour he was facing suspension, so it became important that he train up a replacement "ball manager", and that job was assigned to Bancroft.  It's possible this was done by Smith and Warner alone, but highly unlikely, almost certainly Lehmann was part of this decision and Bancroft was acting under direct instructions from (I suspect) the Coach, Captain and Vice Captain.  The bowlers almost certainly have a say in what they want out of the "ball management process".

Warner was unusually fielding on the boundary when the tampering Bancroft was observed doing occurred.  Exactly why is hard to say, to draw attention away (he was already under suspicion).  But this can't happen without the captain's approval, and these days without the coach as well.

Anyway, it all goes pear shaped.  Bancroft is busted on TV.  

Smith and Bancroft give their semi-apologetic press conference at the end of the day, where they partially own up.  Exactly what they were going to say was clearly pre-planned, and I'd be astonished if Lehmann rather than Warner wasn't involved in those discussions.  I'd be equally surprised if Warner was involved in these discussions, as I doubt he's considered any expert in media management.  But at this meeting, they cooked up this BS about sticky tape and pitch rubble.

The press conference goes badly.  The Aussie team (indeed everyone) underestimates the backlash about confessing to the cheating.  Smith also uses the term "leadership group", which implicates and p*sses off lots of other people for lots of reasons.  

In response the to the public furor, CA panics and sends over their investigator and senior management.  They also revert to their typical MO and decide to thrown Bancroft under a bus and organise sending over Renshaw, and organise appropriate press.

(This bit is supposition on my part)  Lehmann and the players probably get together to decide how to handle the Roy investigation, but Warner isn't included in this group: he can't be trusted to keep his story straight (or even agree to the story they've chosen to run).  During the investigation, the players repeat their (probably) pre-arranged accounts of what happened, designed to contain the damage to Warner, Smith and Bancroft.  

In the interview process, Warner initially sticks to the script that he knew nothing etc etc, but during the interview it emerges Smith and Bancroft have detailed Warner coaching Bancroft on how to tamper with the ball.  Warner has then "come clean", and admitted what he's been doing, and fingered everyone else in the team as knowing all about it, including Starc and Lehmann.  

During the course of the interviews, accusations made by Warner are put to the other players - who could only know they came from Warner if they were true (or were inappropriately told by Roy) - and they are *really* pissed off Warner has dobbed them in.  (Geoff Lemon wrote a good piece on this).

This instigates further leaking to the press: the story from Caddock about the bowlers being p*ssed at Warner, and the "unnamed source" (presumed to be Warner) that the bowlers all knew reported by ninemsn.  Warner is clearly ostracised from the team after this.

As for Lehmann, I don't buy for one second Sutherland's description that he said 'WTF is going on?" when he sent the radio message to Hanscomb on the bench.  

For starters, Lehmann deliberately concealed his lips from the TV cameras.  Hanscomb's immediate reaction to the "question" was to initially say "f*ck off!", and then he paused for a bit wondering exactly what he should do.  The next bit of footage of him shows him speaking to Bancroft through gritted teeth, then turning away and saying to no-one in particular "this is bullsh*t".  Bancroft says nothing.  Bancroft subsequently puts the sandpaper down his pants.  

The circumstantial evidence is that Lehmann sent out a message "you've been busted, hide the stuff".

Whether or not this is what Lehmann and the players told Roy is anyone's guess.  But I think it's clear Lehmann was involved in more than just attempting to downplay the incident.  Accessory after the fact (at least).

IMHO Lehmann has most likely been allowed to resign with his reputation intact, or at least not further sullied by published adverse findings from Cricket Australia.  The only reason I could even imagine this might be the case is Cricket Australia wishing to avoid Lehmann going public with whatever else he knows.  

Similarly IMHO Starc is serving an unofficial suspension, and a "fine" of his IPL earnings.  If so, I expect it's because the rumours Starc made threats about what might happen if Warner wasn't removed from the touring party are probably true.

I think it boils down to two possibilities:
(1) Warner went rouge, has been sandpapering the ball for some time, yet managed to keep it a complete secret from all and sundry.  At least until he decided to tell Bancroft and instruct him on how to take over his "job".
(2) Warner has been sandpapering the ball for some time, and everyone (who matters) at least knew about it, or had instructed him to do it.

Generally I'm a "it's a stuffup rather than a conspiracy" man.  But in this case I think the idea one of the stupidest members of the Aussie cricket team in some decades (and that's saying something) could keep a secret (then inexplicably reveal it to a junior member of the team) is just implausible.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Generally I'm a "it's a stuffup rather than a conspiracy" man.  But in this case I think the idea one of the stupidest members of the Aussie cricket team in some decades (and that's saying something) could keep a secret (then inexplicably reveal it to a junior member of the team) is just implausible.
djf01
Well you've certainly gone all out on conspiracies this time. Starc an unofficial suspension? Absolute nonsense. If they found something, they name him and suspend him. He has a genuine recurring injury which is going to cost him heaps of cash. Lehmann? It  is fairly well established that he sprang them in the act. Why not wait until CA completes its findings? All you're writing at the moment is the product of a fevered imagination.
As Fred Trueman said of Ted Dexter, "You've got more theories than Darwin."
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

I'm sadly and somewhat reluctantly coming to a similar conclusion: this (ball tampering using sandpaper) has been happening for some time, and more than the 3 convicted parties knew about it and organised it....................................
djf01
Way too much supposition.

For example:
Why was Glenn Maxwell sent over as one of the potential replacements?  Originally they made a big thing/good news story of Matt Renshaw getting the call up to replace Bancroft.  But after the preliminary results of the Roy enquiry, they hurriedly added Burns and Maxwell.  From Maxwell's inclusion I can only conclude they may have faced the prospect of suspending either Handscomb or Lyon as well.
djf01
The 15-man Test Squad only had one reserve batsman; Handscomb (who would also now be the only reserve wicketkeeper as Bancroft is obviously no longer available), the other 3 are bowlers. As 3 batsmen were sent home, only sending 2 replacements would mean there is no reserve should a player be injured, say in the pre-Test warmup, as has happened. Maxwell was probably seen as a reserve batsman and  a backup for Mitchell Marsh, who is rumoured to be carrying an injury (not that he’s a No 6 batsman). It’s hard to see how the 12th man could be suspended for relaying the coach’s messages.

It’s not a stuff up; it’s a conspiracy and the 3 conspirators, the ones that did the ball tampering or should have stopped it when they became partially, if not fully, aware of it, have been dealt with appropriately.
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
As the pressure mounts on Warner, he will spill one day. No doubt certain people have it against him. All three people had nearly exactly the same interview, no one answered the question "were others involved." Warner the one that didn't come out the other end smelling like roses. His interview was badly handled, using his family as an excuse last Thursday night then waiting till Saturday to conduct his interview. I'm not a Warner supporter, but there is a hell of a lot more to this story than what everyone is letting on in my opinion. Some things just don't add up. What was with all that tape on his hands? I read an article that after that incident, the 3 rd Test had 6 dedicated camera's homing in on the ball at all times.

I see the same as djf01 in some cases, Mitchell Starc, that's the weird one. Hazlewood hasn't taken any wickets in this match, read into that as you will. Pat Cummins is just a gun bowler in my opinion. I do feel for Renshaw and Burns, yes they failed with the bat in the first innings, but they got thrown in the deep end with no preparation for South Africa.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

There were doubts about the fitness of Starc and Mitchell Marsh before the ball-tampering incident. This ABC article from March 20th (before the 3rd Test): http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-20/mitchell-starc-injury-fears-as-cape-town-groundsman-given-free-/9566248
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Starc is no issue - it's a recurring injury and, as kitchgp has pointed out, it was there before any ball tampering issue arose.
Warner?  He is the official "attack dog" of the side and has been for some time. Unfortunately, he's just not the sharpest knife in the drawer. If he couldn't swing a piece of willow he'd be carting bricks. This is where both Smith and Lehmann failed; Warner should have been pulled into line years ago. His press conference (what a misuse of a term) was carefully stage managed by a professional, complete with weeping wife, and we learnt nothing. As one commentator said, all we found was that Warner's major interest is self-interest and we knew that anyway.
Cummins? Yes - head and shoulders above any other Australian bowler. Hazelwood just looks jaded after the Ashes series in which he did well. Renshaw and Burns were on a hiding to nothing. I certainly wouldn't want to face Philander, Morkel and Co when I'm fresh off an aircraft and jet-lagged to hell and back.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I watched from here (In Thailand) the press conference with David Warner.  A complete non event.  Suffice to say his career at every level in my view is sadly over.  I have never been a big fan of Warner's probably due in part to he way he conducted himself on the field and I am referring to the sledging.

His interview was luck lustre and I was at times drawn into thinking they were fake tears if they were tears. I truly believe I was witnessing cognitive dissonance playing out before my eyes.  The schoolboy who has always played cricket the tough and rugged way, never experiencing the gentleman's form of the game.

The conference finished and left me with the view this guy was never captain material and had been used to getting away with a lot on and off the field.
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Interesting will be any chance of a challenge to the respective suspensions. As though, CA doesn't have the right to impose any above or beyond what the international guidelines suggest they should be whacked with....

Any of that would smack of, "well I'm good at this sport, I've a great lookin Mrs who I wouldn't have landed without who I am in this sport and what I earn from it. As such, who are you to suspend me and compromise my ability to earn a quid and provide for them and the lifestyle we're  now accustomed to? Just because I cheated.....

This would clearly be the tail wagging the dog. I doubt Joe Blogs would get off any court conviction plying that theory, and should these players try that, then neither should they. If it wasn't sport, your average punter watching this at home would most likely be happy seeing them hung out to dry, and sooking it up on TV would get ZERO dispensation. But it is sport, so the feeling is skewed in favour of minimum suspension,  cos we just can't handle not having a winning national team. If we admit that,  do we also admit that the ends justify the means?.

Regards

ps. What was going on re Warners Mrs and what she copped is nothing short of disgusting. That said,  it's pretty sad if that was the impetus for this whole saga.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville

ps. What was going on re Warners Mrs and what she copped is nothing short of disgusting. That said,  it's pretty sad if that was the impetus for this whole saga.
davesvline

If you're going to use that lame excuse then you would have to agree that it was what Warner said to de Kock that was the impetus for this whole saga.

If Davey could just learn to keep his bogan trap shut, then its unlikely de Kock would have said anything Razz
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Very good call. Hence my saying "IF".

But you've accurately summed Warner up, and he's definitely the type to point at de Koch and claim he started it.

Ultimately,  it all comes back to sledging which as I've mentioned previously,  no Aussie cricketer will ever get away with again.

Cheers
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

................Renshaw and Burns were on a hiding to nothing. I certainly wouldn't want to face Philander, Morkel and Co when I'm fresh off an aircraft and jet-lagged to hell and back.
Valvegear
plus playing at 5000ft somewhere near the Tropic of Capricorn
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

One question though that needs a good answer is who showed Warner how to tamper with a ball in the first place as it is a fine art and not something that anyone can get right just by sandpapering anywhere on the ball it has to be in specific places on the ball so some ex test player may have passed on this info on to Warner and then someone had to show the ex Test Player and so it goes back a long way by the look of it.

Not a good thing to see that cheating might have been done for decades, but not as openly as this lot tried.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
One question though that needs a good answer is who showed Warner how to tamper with a ball in the first place as it is a fine art and not something that anyone can get right just by sandpapering anywhere on the ball it has to be in specific places on the ball so some ex test player may have passed on this info on to Warner and then someone had to show the ex Test Player and so it goes back a long way by the look of it.
DJPeters
Now; apparently you know a bit about it; so do I; so I'd suggest it's not as much rocket science as you may think. One shiny side, one rough side has been the mantra for as long as I can remember, and generations of bowlers kept one side shiny by polishing it on the creams, and swung the ball.  It has been relatively recently that "reverse swing" has been introduced into the lexicon, although it has probably been used unnoticed in the past. The big difference is, of course, that the rough side was caused by fair wear and tear, and not artificial aids like sandpaper (or angle grinders.)
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Pat Cummins is just a gun bowler in my opinion.
LowndesJ515
And the figures bear this out.
In the first innings of 488 in this Test, Cummins took 5 for 83. In the second innings of 344/6 declared, he took 4 for 58. That's 9 for 141 for the match; average 15.66, and all the other bowlers took 7 wickets while 691 runs went on the board; average 98.7,(which, of course, includes some extras.) It is going to be interesting to see the Australian performances for all four Tests. I think there'll be some pretty dismal reading in there.

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