Melbourne Airport Rail Link

 
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Dan's going to be building this. It will only add to his legacy being the guy who finally built the airport link. It'll get started presumably by 2022, and he'll surely get another 4 years, so he'll definitely be credited for it.

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  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner


A direct route to the airport via Highpoint would have to be tunnelled and would cost more than the 8 - 13 billion for the Sunshine route. If the airport link takes the form of heavy rail, then it should be a through route, either north to Bendigo, Shepparton and Albury or via the Melbourne Metro tunnel through to Cranbourne and Pakenham. That is what Syndey and Brisbane has done.

In no way should they be spending a huge amount of coin on a High Speed heavy rail dedicated link from the CBD to the airport. Not when so many suburbs in Melbourne do not even have decent bus services, let alone rail. For a dedicated link upgrade and remodel and extend Tram Route 59.


MichaelOh do pay attention Michael,

It has been said ad infinitum by Dan, that the Airport train will be a through route. It is called SRL.

Broadmeadows clockwise or MM1/Dandy, Wyndham Vale anti-clock ; effectively killing the Bendigo and Albury dreams.

cheers
John
justarider
I know John. I am just stating this because some, namely the Herald Sun  think it should be a dedicated 100+ mph to the CBD and Back. I know Dan wants a through link!

Michael
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Good point raised how will Seymour and Albury pass here connect with the airport line other than coming right into the city.
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

Good point raised how will Seymour and Albury pass here connect with the airport line other than coming right into the city.
freightgate

They'll change to the SRL at Broadmeadows.

Or am I missing something here?
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller


A direct route to the airport via Highpoint would have to be tunnelled and would cost more than the 8 - 13 billion for the Sunshine route. If the airport link takes the form of heavy rail, then it should be a through route, either north to Bendigo, Shepparton and Albury or via the Melbourne Metro tunnel through to Cranbourne and Pakenham. That is what Syndey and Brisbane has done.

In no way should they be spending a huge amount of coin on a High Speed heavy rail dedicated link from the CBD to the airport. Not when so many suburbs in Melbourne do not even have decent bus services, let alone rail. For a dedicated link upgrade and remodel and extend Tram Route 59.

MichaelOh do pay attention Michael,

It has been said ad infinitum by Dan, that the Airport train will be a through route. It is called SRL.

Broadmeadows clockwise or MM1/Dandy, Wyndham Vale anti-clock ; effectively killing the Bendigo and Albury dreams.

cheers
JohnI know John. I am just stating this because some, namely the Herald Sun  think it should be a dedicated 100+ mph to the CBD and Back. I know Dan wants a through link!
Michael
mejhammers1
@justarider

I don't think that is what Michael is talking about. SRL will not through route the Airport Rail Link. I believe Michael is talking about services from the city. It was first raised in the RFI report a few years ago, to continue to run Airport services out to Bendigo or Seymour. And, that is where the tunnel was born. Since then Andrews has flirted with it and that pesky consortium pushed their $7 Billion wheelbarrow into his office to build it.

It was sold as a way to get trains to the Airport and help deliver the goverments election commitment of 'faster rail' to Geelong and Ballarat. It was all very good and well to say they could build faster services out to Geelong but the government has still yet to say how they will avoid crawling behind stoppers after Sunshine.

I don't think SRL is going to help much with Regional Passengers getting to the Airport. It will be a change at Sunshine for Geelong/Ballarat & Bendigo. Two changes for Seymour & Gippsland Services. It will however be a boon for workers that live in and around the airport ie Sunshine & Broadmeadows.

And yes! Extend the bloody 59 tram. No sane traveller will want to catch it from the city at an hour plus, but it gives thousands of airport workers in Airport West & Essendon an additional option to the Airport. Melbourne Airport has been screaming at Andrews to improve landslide transport to the airport. Not for travellers but for the 10,000+ employees. Currently there is two local bus routes and the 901 that services the Airport.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Mister Fact Checker
It has been said ad infinitum by Dan, that the Airport train will be a through route. It is called SRL.
John
--@justarider

I know John. I am just stating this because some, namely the Herald Sun  think it should be a dedicated 100+ mph to the CBD and Back. I know Dan wants a through link!
Michael
--@mejhammers1
@justarider

I don't think that is what Michael is talking about. SRL will not through route the Airport Rail Link. I believe Michael is talking about services from the city. It was first raised in the RFI report a few years ago, to continue to run Airport services out to Bendigo or Seymour. And, that is where the tunnel was born. Since then Andrews has flirted with it and that pesky consortium pushed their $7 Billion wheelbarrow into his office to build it.

It was sold as a way to get trains to the Airport and help deliver the goverments election commitment of 'faster rail' to Geelong and Ballarat. It was all very good and well to say they could build faster services out to Geelong but the government has still yet to say how they will avoid crawling behind stoppers after Sunshine.

I don't think SRL is going to help much with Regional Passengers getting to the Airport. It will be a change at Sunshine for Geelong/Ballarat & Bendigo. Two changes for Seymour & Gippsland Services. It will however be a boon for workers that live in and around the airport ie Sunshine & Broadmeadows.

And yes! Extend the bloody 59 tram. No sane traveller will want to catch it from the city at an hour plus, but it gives thousands of airport workers in Airport West & Essendon an additional option to the Airport. Melbourne Airport has been screaming at Andrews to improve landslide transport to the airport. Not for travellers but for the 10,000+ employees. Currently there is two local bus routes and the 901 that services the Airport.
Lockie91
@Lockie91 I think you will find that Michael and I are in furious agreement that SRL will be the "through" route.

Forget about the RFI dream, was never going to happen, although they did give some good nuggets that have been picked up.

Sunshine to Airport will have 2 purposes. The MARL Airport to City, and SRL Airport to Werribee/Wyndham Vale.
Both could go clockwise around the SRL after the Airport. Theory only - the patterns of where the trains end up/terminate starts to get messy.

SRL/MARL for regions to the Airport is fairly straight forward. One change only.
Geelong/Ballarat/Bendigo - change at Sunshine.
Seymour - change at Broadmeadows.
Gippsland - change at Caulfield
None of them will get a direct link, but a hell of a lot better that all the way to SCS and then out again.

"Faster rail" for Geelong/Ballarat is the approach/carrot that Vic government is steering The Feds away from their own boondoggle.
It means money for quad/electric for Melton and Wyndham Vale, removing V/Line from the back of the SAS.
Which one is first is anybody's guess, and Sunbury quad comes a distant 3rd place.

In some distant future, sparks will go all the way to Geelong/Ballarat which could then give an option of some trains going to the Airport instead of City. No idea if pax volume could justify that , but never know...

Also furious agreement that 59 tram for locals is the best option.

cheers
John
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
To modify a well known quotation: "Never, in the field of human endeavour, has so much speculation been made with so few facts known."
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

To modify a well known quotation: "Never, in the field of human endeavour, has so much speculation been made with so few facts known."
Valvegear
some baldheaded bloke puffing on a cigar said something similar.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner


A direct route to the airport via Highpoint would have to be tunnelled and would cost more than the 8 - 13 billion for the Sunshine route. If the airport link takes the form of heavy rail, then it should be a through route, either north to Bendigo, Shepparton and Albury or via the Melbourne Metro tunnel through to Cranbourne and Pakenham. That is what Syndey and Brisbane has done.

In no way should they be spending a huge amount of coin on a High Speed heavy rail dedicated link from the CBD to the airport. Not when so many suburbs in Melbourne do not even have decent bus services, let alone rail. For a dedicated link upgrade and remodel and extend Tram Route 59.

MichaelOh do pay attention Michael,

It has been said ad infinitum by Dan, that the Airport train will be a through route. It is called SRL.

Broadmeadows clockwise or MM1/Dandy, Wyndham Vale anti-clock ; effectively killing the Bendigo and Albury dreams.

cheers
JohnI know John. I am just stating this because some, namely the Herald Sun  think it should be a dedicated 100+ mph to the CBD and Back. I know Dan wants a through link!
Michael@justarider

I don't think that is what Michael is talking about. SRL will not through route the Airport Rail Link. I believe Michael is talking about services from the city. It was first raised in the RFI report a few years ago, to continue to run Airport services out to Bendigo or Seymour. And, that is where the tunnel was born. Since then Andrews has flirted with it and that pesky consortium pushed their $7 Billion wheelbarrow into his office to build it.

It was sold as a way to get trains to the Airport and help deliver the goverments election commitment of 'faster rail' to Geelong and Ballarat. It was all very good and well to say they could build faster services out to Geelong but the government has still yet to say how they will avoid crawling behind stoppers after Sunshine.

I don't think SRL is going to help much with Regional Passengers getting to the Airport. It will be a change at Sunshine for Geelong/Ballarat & Bendigo. Two changes for Seymour & Gippsland Services. It will however be a boon for workers that live in and around the airport ie Sunshine & Broadmeadows.

And yes! Extend the bloody 59 tram. No sane traveller will want to catch it from the city at an hour plus, but it gives thousands of airport workers in Airport West & Essendon an additional option to the Airport. Melbourne Airport has been screaming at Andrews to improve landslide transport to the airport. Not for travellers but for the 10,000+ employees. Currently there is two local bus routes and the 901 that services the Airport.
Lockie91
Yep, totally correct, my main concern was about Services to the City. And extending the tram for the local catchment area would be a great idea. At the moment the North West Suburbs to the airport is served by an 1/2 hourly bus services which finish at 9pm.

Michael
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Superannuation Fund proposal shot down by Govt:
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/super-bid-for-melbourne-airport-rail-set-to-fail-despite-treasurer-s-push-20200610-p5516g.html

That was to build a 7km long tunnel between the City and the West Footscray, and entirely separate tracks to airport from there.
https://www.airrailmelbourne.com.au/
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Superannuation Fund proposal shot down by Govt:
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/super-bid-for-melbourne-airport-rail-set-to-fail-despite-treasurer-s-push-20200610-p5516g.html

That was to build a 7km long tunnel between the City and the West Footscray, and entirely separate tracks to airport from there.
https://www.airrailmelbourne.com.au/
Carnot
That's the same consortium that has been knocked back previously, just putting the Super fund in prominence instead of the Airport owners, so not really a surprise in that.

Neil
  chi01 Junior Train Controller

Location: Frankston Line
I agree that extending the 59 Tram to Melbourne Airport is a great idea, to serve local airport workers in the Airport West/Gladstone Park/ Keilor/ Essendon areas and improve access to local services.

Given the large number of airport employees plus flights running from early morning until to late evening, there needs to be a reliable public transport link to the airport, besides the 901 Smartbus, which is good if you are coming from Broadmeadows and the northern suburbs, but not from other areas.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Are we starting to see the government look to exercising their agreement with the Chinese and using debt to fund the rail tunnel for the airport?  Seems that way to me https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/airport-rail-tunnel-may-need-private-route
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Mister Fact Checker
Are we starting to see the government look to exercising their agreement with the Chinese and using debt to fund the rail tunnel for the airport?  Seems that way to me https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/airport-rail-tunnel-may-need-private-route
bevans
Reading a lot of red herrings there @bevans

The Age article is an editorial opinion of what the opposing factions are trying to push. It could be summarized as "get on with it".

Vic government "sources" has been pretty clear these past months that a tunnel to SCS will NOT be built.
A lot of back flack, and stupid money mentioned, isn't changing the opposition of the Vic  government to that extravagance. They have their own priority, without any mention of Belts and Braces.

PS: you worry about the veracity of The Age editor when claiming that Transurban are the operators of Eastlink - not so, its ConnectEast PL

cheers
John
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I was thinking a little more simpler than tha but do agree to some extent.  The state has massive cost overruns with the Airport Line and they need to get on with it.  Money will have to be borrowed to build it and they may just decide to do it with the chinese although some super funds might be keen.  The tunnel would defer capital in a BOO arrangement.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Mister Fact Checker
I was thinking a little more simpler than tha but do agree to some extent.  The state has massive cost overruns with the Airport Line and they need to get on with it.  Money will have to be borrowed to build it and they may just decide to do it with the chinese although some super funds might be keen.  The tunnel would defer capital in a BOO arrangement.
bevans
Still not hearing me. There will be NO tunnel.
"Cost over run" - really !! without even a Business Case published to state a how much for MARL, and nothing else even spent yet.

The Vic government has made a $5B commitment. Post Cov19 they might now have to borrow it.
An easy investment for Aussie Super funds that should outbid foreigners if they are really serious.

cheers
John
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Are we starting to see the government look to exercising their agreement with the Chinese and using debt to fund the rail tunnel for the airport? Seems that way to me https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/airport-rail-tunnel-may-n...
Bevans

Agreement with the Chinese? We're not actually borrowing any money from them in the agreement. It's an extremely low risk manoeuvre that will probably do more good than harm, especially when considering diplomacy.
  Upven Locomotive Fireman

Superannuation Fund proposal shot down by Govt:
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/super-bid-for-melbourne-airport-rail-set-to-fail-despite-treasurer-s-push-20200610-p5516g.html

That was to build a 7km long tunnel between the City and the West Footscray, and entirely separate tracks to airport from there.
https://www.airrailmelbourne.com.au/
Carnot
Gosh it's even stylised as if it were a government advertisement for any of Victoria's other infrastructure projects.
  chomper Junior Train Controller

I'm hearing on a few grapevines that the MARL is being scrapped, with the SRL to be the airport "link".
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

I'm hearing on a few grapevines that the MARL is being scrapped, with the SRL to be the airport "link".
chomper
Been obvious since the SRL was released, and a bloody shame too.

SRL should be Airport - Watergardens - Caroline Springs then the RRL to Werribee.

Another project where the west is given a poorer result because the money has all been spent out east...
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I'm hearing on a few grapevines that the MARL is being scrapped, with the SRL to be the airport "link".
chomper

So not likely to see an airport link for 30 years could Melbourne stuff this up anymore?

This morning National MP coming out in support of the airport tunnel https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/rejecting-tunnel-for-melbourne-airport-rail-link-would-be-shortsighted-nationals-mp which got me thinking why not have both?  Melbourne is a large city and the suburbs are vast.  the CBD needs a direct as possible service over the 22 kms.

Without the tunnel the price is $10b ($5b each from Feds and state) but the tunnel capital amount being offered over an annuity is $7b.
  chomper Junior Train Controller

I'm hearing on a few grapevines that the MARL is being scrapped, with the SRL to be the airport "link".
Been obvious since the SRL was released, and a bloody shame too.

SRL should be Airport - Watergardens - Caroline Springs then the RRL to Werribee.

Another project where the west is given a poorer result because the money has all been spent out east...
John.Z

I think this is the current line of thinking, because it still has Sunshine sort of in the picture and the money committed for MARL to be redirected to the SRL.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Mister Fact Checker
I'm hearing on a few grapevines that the MARL is being scrapped, with the SRL to be the airport "link".
chomper
Been obvious since the SRL was released, and a bloody shame too.

SRL should be Airport - Watergardens - Caroline Springs then the RRL to Werribee.

Another project where the west is given a poorer result because the money has all been spent out east...
"John.Z"

We've had this discussion before methinks.

Haven't even got a shovel in the ground, you expect them to stump up for a second 16km line(tunnels and all).

Via Sunshine is guaranteed for MARL.  
The real question is how will the SRL line-share do a U turn at Sunshine off to Tarneit(ish).

cheers
John
  John.Z Chief Train Controller


We've had this discussion before methinks.

Haven't even got a shovel in the ground, you expect them to stump up for a second 16km line(tunnels and all).

Via Sunshine is guaranteed for MARL.  
The real question is how will the SRL line-share do a U turn at Sunshine off to Tarneit(ish).

cheers
John
justarider
Majority of the western section is greenfields, just like the RRL, so extremely cheap to build now and let the growth occur around it. The government has the chance to get ahead of the curve, but goes for the cheap and nasty because once the east has rail access to the airport, who cares about the 1m+ who live out west.

Why does the east get a 16km(?) tunnel yet the west can't even get a 16km stretch of track on open fields that would cost a fifth. Ridiculous.
  John E Station Master


We've had this discussion before methinks.

Haven't even got a shovel in the ground, you expect them to stump up for a second 16km line(tunnels and all).

Via Sunshine is guaranteed for MARL.  
The real question is how will the SRL line-share do a U turn at Sunshine off to Tarneit(ish).

cheers
JohnMajority of the western section is greenfields, just like the RRL, so extremely cheap to build now and let the growth occur around it. The government has the chance to get ahead of the curve, but goes for the cheap and nasty because once the east has rail access to the airport, who cares about the 1m+ who live out west.

Why does the east get a 16km(?) tunnel yet the west can't even get a 16km stretch of track on open fields that would cost a fifth. Ridiculous.
John.Z
I don't understand why the SRL needs to do a very expensive to build U-turn at Sunshine and go towards Wyndham Vale, taking up paths for Wyndham Vale trains to the city. I know this is what the government maps show but it may not be this in reality.

The way I see it is there are a couple of ways to connect the west to the SRL including:

1) From Airport SRL terminates at Sunshine and passengers change for a Wyndham Vale train coming from the city. Cheapest option but the interchange adds to the overall travel time plus no direct trip to the Airport from the City.

2) From Airport SRL joins the Metro tunnel line. Passengers for Wyndham Vale still change for train coming from the city. Allows direct access from city to Airport. Train takes up paths intended for Melton services.

Unlikely but I think creates more options in the future
3) From Airport SRL keeps travelling towards Laverton. Tunneling will be required at least some of the way so more expensive but this would be a quicker way for Werribee line passengers to connect to Sunshine and the Airport than travelling back towards Wyndham Vale.

4) From Airport SRL travels towards Laverton but there is a separate connection to the Metro tunnel line. E.G. 10 services go to Laverton and 4 to City.

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