Melbourne Airport Rail Link

 
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
and to get back on the topic of Airport Rail.

There is nothing to report. page 44 achieved.

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  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
An interesting and somewhat relevant speech from Damien Drum who to my mind has correctly identified the project is a sham (as many of us on here have already stated) in terms of the cost.  



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddl6Qu3CjPY

The tunnel option is mandatory but so is a connection to broadmeadows for North East BG services and SG platform at Sunshine.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
An interesting and somewhat relevant speech from Damien Drum who to my mind has correctly identified the project is a sham (as many of us on here have already stated) in terms of

The tunnel option is mandatory but so is a connection to broadmeadows for North East BG services and SG platform at Sunshine.
"bevans"
couldn't last 2 whole weeks. Ah well.....
Yep, connect to Airport to Broady. That's  = SRL.
Broady is also the BG & SG connection to the NE line, but if you need to be greedy another(SG) platform at Sunshine wouldn't hurt.

Neither of those has anything to do with a tunnel SUN to SCS. That's just a wet dream that will do nothing for Mr Drum's constituency, so why does he & @bevans keep bringing it up.

cheers
John
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

Neither of those has anything to do with a tunnel SUN to SCS. That's just a wet dream that will do nothing for Mr Drum's constituency, so why does he & @bevans keep bringing it up.
justarider

John I cannot see how not having a tunnel will make the train trip from Melbourne to the airport delay free.
  CraigieburnLineUser Locomotive Fireman

An interesting and somewhat relevant speech from Damien Drum who to my mind has correctly identified the project is a sham (as many of us on here have already stated) in terms of the cost.  



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddl6Qu3CjPY

The tunnel option is mandatory but so is a connection to broadmeadows for North East BG services and SG platform at Sunshine.
bevans
Definitely agreed on the connection to Broadmeadows but the tunnel to the city from Sunshine still doesn't stack up for the money and signing a PPP still makes no sense. The Airport Link should be zone 2 with all revenue going through Myki and PTV. As @justarider mentioned on the 21st of May (page 81 and I've posted the link below) there's no point building the tunnel for 4-6 trains per hour and the High Capacities will mean that capacity of trains through MM1 won't be an issue. V/Line are currently looking into 9 car running on RRL so that will give some short term relief until quadding and electrification to Wyndham on RRL. After that they will also get a massive boost from the HCMTs.

As for the North East Line. For BG the connection at Broadmeadows will be more then sufficient. If they are diverted via Upfield (via Somerton) then services should be altered to stop at Craigieburn and interchange at Broady. For SG NE services they already stop at Broady in normal times (aka when the border is open and Broady isn't locked down due to COVID) so it's a non-starter, just a change of platform to the Airport. Passenger's interchanging once or twice is so much cheaper then ordering a bespoke tunnel for a small amount of diverted trains.



Justarider's figures: https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p2177987.htm#2177987
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last

Neither of those has anything to do with a tunnel SUN to SCS. That's just a wet dream that will do nothing for Mr Drum's constituency, so why does he & @bevans keep bringing it up.
justarider

John I cannot see how not having a tunnel will make the train trip from Melbourne to the airport delay free.
"bevans"

The tunnel only delivers "delay free" if you believe that the ultimate destination is SCS. And you express Airport/Sunshine/Southern Cross

I've stated numerous times how SCS is not the destination of choice. You go there, to get somewhere else.
Instead, go almost anywhere else in CBD or the suburbs, which is much better served by MM1 and it's multiple destinations and connect points.

The only "delay" are the 3 stations between Sunshine and Footscray - IF an express cannot be achieved. 3rd track at West Foot will help sort that.
50/50 whether to express Footscray also.
None of this is a big time difference. Been on a plane for hours and quibble about 5min ?..

PS thanks Craigie, my rants sometimes get noticed.

cheers
John
  CraigieburnLineUser Locomotive Fireman


Neither of those has anything to do with a tunnel SUN to SCS. That's just a wet dream that will do nothing for Mr Drum's constituency, so why does he & @bevans keep bringing it up.
John I cannot see how not having a tunnel will make the train trip from Melbourne to the airport delay free.
The tunnel only delivers "delay free" if you believe that the ultimate destination is SCS. And you express Airport/Sunshine/Southern Cross

I've stated numerous times how SCS is not the destination of choice. You go there, to get somewhere else.
Instead, go almost anywhere else in CBD or the suburbs, which is much better served by MM1 and it's multiple destinations and connect points.

The only "delay" are the 3 stations between Sunshine and Footscray - IF an express cannot be achieved. 3rd track at West Foot will help sort that.
50/50 whether to express Footscray also.
None of this is a big time difference. Been on a plane for hours and quibble about 5min ?..

PS thanks Craigie, my rants sometimes get noticed.

cheers
John
justarider
Agreed on SCS not being great, half the time the Northern Loop has to go all the way around or change at North Melbourne or Flagstaff. Much better going through MM1 as either way it's shorter.

PS thanks Craigie, my rants sometimes get noticed.
justarider
All good man, it was a really good explanation for me on why Sunbury wasn't really getting a massive increase in service out of MM1
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Personal opinion - the project will go on the back-burner if airline tourism and travel doesn't recover in a hurry.  That will be very dependent on a successful vaccine for the current pestilence.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Personal opinion - the project will go on the back-burner if airline tourism and travel doesn't recover in a hurry.  That will be very dependent on a successful vaccine for the current pestilence.
Carnot

Now would be the best time to do the project or should we divert funds into higher speed networks between the capitals?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Personal opinion - the project will go on the back-burner if airline tourism and travel doesn't recover in a hurry.  That will be very dependent on a successful vaccine for the current pestilence.

Now would be the best time to do the project or should we divert funds into higher speed networks between the capitals?
bevans
If we are going to be doing more domestic tourism and consuming more stuff from home, the interstate is perhaps a place where the previous demand curves have changed for the better and so it may be that more benefit can be derived from it.  

Not HSR tho, MSR...  but that is a whole other thread im not going into.
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
More changed details on the Melbourne Airport link announced or leaked as the case could be.  The herald sun has details but I have also typed in a news item. Trains are now to use the new metro tunnel line.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

More changed details on the Melbourne Airport link announced or leaked as the case could be.  The herald sun has details but I have also typed in a news item. Trains are now to use the new metro tunnel line.
NSWGR8022
I could see that coming from miles away.  But it'll only work if Bendigo RRL is extended from Anderson Rd to beyond Albion junction.  And if the new third track at West Footscray is extended West of Tottenham Station.

It also means that Sunshine to the Airport (and SRL) will be Broad gauge and 1500 VDC.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
More changed details on the Melbourne Airport link announced or leaked as the case could be.  The herald sun has details but I have also typed in a news item. Trains are now to use the new metro tunnel line.
NSWGR8022

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/new-billiondollar-plan-for-airport-rail-link-revealed
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
More changed details on the Melbourne Airport link announced or leaked as the case could be.  The herald sun has details but I have also typed in a news item. Trains are now to use the new metro tunnel line.
I could see that coming from miles away.  But it'll only work if Bendigo RRL is extended from Anderson Rd to beyond Albion junction.  And if the new third track at West Footscray is extended West of Tottenham Station.

It also means that Sunshine to the Airport (and SRL) will be Broad gauge and 1500 VDC.
Carnot

A little confused about this and trying to understand.  Why does Bendigo RRL need to be extended?

Planning is ongoing, with experts considering whether the new Melbourne Airport station is built underground to enhance transfers and minimise disruption, even though the line will run above ground.

Some federal backbenchers continue to agitate over route details, pushing for a separate tunnel under Melbourne’s west to Southern Cross Station — a private proposal bankrolled by IFM Investors — which they say would boost regional services.

The Andrews Government is sticking to its plan for an above-ground line from Tullamarine to Sunshine, however, with trains sent through the $11 billion Melbourne Metro tunnel.
Somebody

Trains underground until Sunshine and thence above ground to the airport hopefully using the underground station at the airport to make the transition from train/flight easier.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Bendigo RRL needs extending almost to Ginifer otherwise Sunshine to Albion Junction will be a choke point for carrying Bendigo V/line, Airport Rail, and Sunbury Metro trains.  It simply won't work having a major capacity restraint like that present.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Bendigo RRL needs extending almost to Ginifer otherwise Sunshine to Albion Junction will be a choke point for carrying Bendigo V/line, Airport Rail, and Sunbury Metro trains.  It simply won't work having a major capacity restraint like that present.
Carnot

The only space or way would be the easement on the southern side?
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

It also means that SRL will be Broad gauge and 1500 VDC.
Carnot
Not necessarily. What it means is that SRL and MARL will be separate projects. Which means that SRL may not go Sunshine-Airport anymore.
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Build the SRL on SG would pave the way for Nothern Seymour services to be converted to SG as these could dive into the SRL and not head into Flinders Street directly and the city taking Melbourne on the SG conversion pathway quicker.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

It also means that SRL will be Broad gauge and 1500 VDC.
Not necessarily. What it means is that SRL and MARL will be separate projects. Which means that SRL may not go Sunshine-Airport anymore.
John.Z
Yeah, there have been rumours SRL might go via Watergardens and Caroline Springs...
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
It also means that SRL will be Broad gauge and 1500 VDC.
Not necessarily. What it means is that SRL and MARL will be separate projects. Which means that SRL may not go Sunshine-Airport anymore.
Yeah, there have been rumours SRL might go via Watergardens and Caroline Springs...
Carnot
Not a rumor.  It's @John.Z favourite topic.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
Build the SRL on SG would pave the way for Nothern Seymour services to be converted to SG as these could dive into the SRL and not head into Flinders Street directly and the city taking Melbourne on the SG conversion pathway quicker.
NSWGR8022
Tish Tosh.

Anytime Vline like, they can send the Seymour BG trains down the Albion track and finish on RRL.
Minor inconvience such as being slower, but hey it would SRL lite.

cheers
John
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
Bendigo RRL needs extending almost to Ginifer otherwise Sunshine to Albion Junction will be a choke point for carrying Bendigo V/line, Airport Rail, and Sunbury Metro trains.  It simply won't work having a major capacity restraint like that present.

The only space or way would be the easement on the southern side?
bevans
"only" ??  You make it sound like a skinny corridor. The down / western spare real estate is huge. Albion station might need to move down.

They will need it. @Carnot forgot to mention that the choke point also needs to carry BG and SG freight to the Albion loop.

cheers
John
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I am just not sure there is much space on the SG side of the easement when I last looked as there is a road and also a carpark at that location, I am unsure from the downside of Albion Railway Station.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Adopt the ‘Pakenham Solution’, ALL CHANGE at Sunbury.

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