Tullamarine's location was determined by the Essendon runway directions. The decision was mainly about avoiding airspace conflicts rather than ground space.

Tullamarine's location was determined by the Essendon runway directions. The decision was mainly about avoiding airspace conflicts rather than ground space.

Interesting.  Could you please elaborate on that for those of us who are ignorant of air traffic control planning (at least not beyond, "Make sure planes don't crash into each other!").

Tullamarine's location was determined by the Essendon runway directions. The decision was mainly about avoiding airspace conflicts rather than ground space.

Interesting.  Could you please elaborate on that for those of us who are ignorant of air traffic control planning (at least not beyond, "Make sure planes don't crash into each other!").

The flight paths for Essendon airport would have been kept the same, so for the new airport (let's assume they were choosing between Tulla and Calder Park only) it needed to allow for the runway config you see at Tulla today to allow for most efficient use using known wind data, and when those planes were using those runways, not disrupt the planes using essendon.

So why did the Federal government choose to build the airport at Tullamarine?

I stumbled across a 1963 Federal Parliamentary report into the Airport in which was summarised the selection of the site.

Tullamarine was chosen as the best site for several reasons - after the possibility of extensions to Essendon Airport was quickly discounted. Several sites were mooted: Tulla, Wittlesea, Hastings, Port Melbourne (!), Werribee,  Laverton, Avalon, and Moorabbin. When they considered flight paths, proximity to Melbourne and lower development costs the choice narowed to Tullamarine or Laverton. Laverton had many disadvantages - it was and still is further from Melbourne, was near to an explosives depot too costly to move, and was already in use for military purposes. Traffic (air?) patterns were also considered and again Tulla was the better choice, being able to be co-ordinated with that of the existing airport at Essendon. The committee considered Laverton’s traffic patterns to be “in conflict” with the pattern for Essendon.

The site chosen was generally rural (and therefore cheap) and had a gently sloping plateau and an excellent site for aviation purposes. It also held better prospects for future extension and less chance for urban encroachment.

Would the Airport station be elevated or Underground? Elevated is probably easier but might increase walking travel times to terminals, with Underground you can get it smack bang under the terminals but it would be VERY complex compared to elevated.

In my opinion the tracks should go under the Ring Road then ascend to a Skyrail parallel to Airport Drive into an Elevated station which includes bridges with travelators. It wouldn’t be super complex plus engineers and construction companies would have had experience with building elevated rail.

Would the Airport station be elevated or Underground? Elevated is probably easier but might increase walking travel times to terminals, with Underground you can get it smack bang under the terminals but it would be VERY complex compared to elevated.

In my opinion the tracks should go under the Ring Road then ascend to a Skyrail parallel to Airport Drive into an Elevated station which includes bridges with travelators. It wouldn’t be super complex plus engineers and construction companies would have had experience with building elevated rail.

Disagree. Skyrail to approx. the long-term carpark then underground to permit extension towards Sunbury.

Will there be any provision for a station at T4?  Or any possible future terminals?  Or will passengers just have to take Shank's Pony from wherever they decide to put the station?

Will there be any provision for a station at T4?  Or any possible future terminals?  Or will passengers just have to take Shank's Pony from wherever they decide to put the station?

It'll be put in that forecourt area between the hotel and T2 I'd assume, that whole area is getting a canopy as part of the redevelopment to open up the landside area of the terminals. Perfect spot to put some escelators down to an underground station from each terminal linking to it being centrally located outside T2.

IIRC there have been a number of comments about an underground station at the airport, from reputable sources

Neil

Station at airport will almost certainly be underground.

The airport link will use elevated rail through Sunshine North, Keilor East and Airport West:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-28/melbourne-airport-link-to-use-elevated-track/13017404

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/melbourne-airport-rail-line-to-soar-high-over-maribyrnong-river-20201228-p56qfa.html
Hopefully there will be some stations built to service those areas.

I wonder what the fares will be will they be standard myki fares or will there be a surcharge like Sydney?

The airport link will use elevated rail through Sunshine North, Keilor East and Airport West:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-28/melbourne-airport-link-to-use-elevated-track/13017404

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/melbourne-airport-rail-line-to-soar-high-over-maribyrnong-river-20201228-p56qfa.html
Hopefully there will be some stations built to service those areas.

I love how the media reports on "elevated rail" over the Moonee Ponds creek. It's obvious that none of them has actually looked at what the conditions are like in that area. Anything other than "sky-rail" would be impossible for a train to cope with.
It also confirms an underground station at the airport proper and David Davis lives up to the Victorian Opposition's standard of say 'the opposite to the government at every chance, even if it makes you look silly'.

Neil

The airport link will use elevated rail through Sunshine North, Keilor East and Airport West:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-28/melbourne-airport-link-to-use-elevated-track/13017404

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/melbourne-airport-rail-line-to-soar-high-over-maribyrnong-river-20201228-p56qfa.html
Hopefully there will be some stations built to service those areas.

I love how the media reports on "elevated rail" over the Moonee Ponds creek. It's obvious that none of them has actually looked at what the conditions are like in that area. Anything other than "sky-rail" would be impossible for a train to cope with.
It also confirms an underground station at the airport proper and David Davis lives up to the Victorian Opposition's standard of say 'the opposite to the government at every chance, even if it makes you look silly'.

Neil

agreed absolutely

Those that would have come in from Melton, Ballarat and Bendigo will have capacity taken from their lines to substitute for the Melbourne Airport Line.

possibly the most inane statement of the year. How are the existing services on RRL in any way impacted by MARL running on the Sunbury metro into MM1? 2 very separate lines now and into the future.

Note: with proviso that the new work at Sunshine sorts out the Bendigo/Sunbury/Freight tangle left behind by RRL

cheers
John

The airport link will use elevated rail through Sunshine North, Keilor East and Airport West:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-28/melbourne-airport-link-to-use-elevated-track/13017404

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/melbourne-airport-rail-line-to-soar-high-over-maribyrnong-river-20201228-p56qfa.html
Hopefully there will be some stations built to service those areas.

What do you think is the basis of this design?  There are ,many housing estates out that way which would benefit from the local services on the current line why elevate along a goods corridor?

This will also increase the cost of the build.  Now we are starting to see what it really looks like and the government waited until 28th of december to send into the media.

The airport link will use elevated rail through Sunshine North, Keilor East and Airport West:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-28/melbourne-airport-link-to-use-elevated-track/13017404

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/melbourne-airport-rail-line-to-soar-high-over-maribyrnong-river-20201228-p56qfa.html
Hopefully there will be some stations built to service those areas.

What do you think is the basis of this design?  There are ,many housing estates out that way which would benefit from the local services on the current line why elevate along a goods corridor?

This will also increase the cost of the build.  Now we are starting to see what it really looks like and the government waited until 28th of december to send into the media.

It will not be elevated rail (well, except the new rail above airport drive but that is not new information)

They're talking about a second bridge, right next to the existing one.

Are they still planning on connecting the station within or adjacent to the terminal?

The airport link will use elevated rail through Sunshine North, Keilor East and Airport West:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-28/melbourne-airport-link-to-use-elevated-track/13017404

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/melbourne-airport-rail-line-to-soar-high-over-maribyrnong-river-20201228-p56qfa.html
Hopefully there will be some stations built to service those areas.

What do you think is the basis of this design?  There are ,many housing estates out that way which would benefit from the local services on the current line why elevate along a goods corridor?

This will also increase the cost of the build.  Now we are starting to see what it really looks like and the government waited until 28th of december to send into the media.

There won't be any intermediate stations between Sunshine and the Airport. And if they went the Tunnel route, that would also be the result.

Along the existing goods corridor, they will just build a new track pair. They may elevate on leaving the goods corridor on its way to the airport.

I cannot for the life of me think as to why this is going to cost $10 Billion, when the MM1 with 9km of deep level tunnels and 5 Stations is costing $12 Billion.

Michael

The airport link will use elevated rail through Sunshine North, Keilor East and Airport West:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-28/melbourne-airport-link-to-use-elevated-track/13017404

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/melbourne-airport-rail-line-to-soar-high-over-maribyrnong-river-20201228-p56qfa.html
Hopefully there will be some stations built to service those areas.

What do you think is the basis of this design?  There are ,many housing estates out that way which would benefit from the local services on the current line why elevate along a goods corridor?

This will also increase the cost of the build.  Now we are starting to see what it really looks like and the government waited until 28th of december to send into the media.

There won't be any intermediate stations between Sunshine and the Airport. And if they went the Tunnel route, that would also be the result.

Elevation will be restricted to the area around the existing Maribyrnong Bridge. They will just build a new track pair along the existing goods corridor.

I cannot for the life of me think as to why this is going to cost $10 Billion, when the MM1 with 9km of deep level tunnels and 5 Stations is costing $12 Billion.

Michael

Technically the Metro tunnel was about 11 billion until it found out there was a budget blowout of about $2.74 billion, it is now costing 13.74 billion dollars.

The airport link will use elevated rail through Sunshine North, Keilor East and Airport West:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-28/melbourne-airport-link-to-use-elevated-track/13017404

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/melbourne-airport-rail-line-to-soar-high-over-maribyrnong-river-20201228-p56qfa.html
Hopefully there will be some stations built to service those areas.

What do you think is the basis of this design?  There are ,many housing estates out that way which would benefit from the local services on the current line why elevate along a goods corridor?

This will also increase the cost of the build.  Now we are starting to see what it really looks like and the government waited until 28th of december to send into the media.

There won't be any intermediate stations between Sunshine and the Airport. And if they went the Tunnel route, that would also be the result.

Elevation will be restricted to the area around the existing Maribyrnong Bridge. They will just build a new track pair along the existing goods corridor.

I cannot for the life of me think as to why this is going to cost $10 Billion, when the MM1 with 9km of deep level tunnels and 5 Stations is costing $12 Billion.

Michael

Technically the Metro tunnel was about 11 billion until it found out there was a budget blowout of about $2.74 billion, it is now costing 13.74 billion dollars.

Even so, I can sort of justify $13.74 Billion for Melbourne Metro 1 and 9 Years. But $10 Billion and 7 years for mostly a track pair a new bridge and about 6 kms of entirely new build and 1 new station. I find that unbelievable.

Michael

Even so, I can sort of justify $13.74 Billion for Melbourne Metro 1 and 9 Years. But $10 Billion and 7 years for mostly a track pair a new bridge and about 6 kms of entirely new build and 1 new station. I find that unbelievable.

I agree. There is no way it should be that expensive, especially now that they're using elevated rail for lots of it. As much as I want us to have an airport rail line, I'd rather put $10 billion towards stage one of Metro 2 which will surely have greater benefits. $10 billion should be what the entire Western Rail Plan costs, not just the airport line.

They probably have to completely rebuild something they just finished (Sunshine station?!?).  Then in a few years they will rebuild it again for the western rail plan.  And then again for the next thing.

From the Age

The original plan was for the track to run via Broadmeadows, rather than the more circuitous journey through Sunshine, but with far more housing along the Broadmeadows corridor to be potentially affected by a new express airport rail line, in 2001 a state government planning panel recommended the new route via Sunshine.

That report estimated an airport rail link would cost between $213 million and $516 million.

The current official estimate for the project stands at $8 billion to 13 billion, although it is not clear precisely what this budget includes. Construction of the airport rail link will start in 2022 and finish by 2029, delivering train services to the city every 10 minutes. Airport trains will run through the new Metro Tunnel and into the south-eastern suburbs via the Cranbourne and Pakenham lines.

The government has promised the new rail link will provide a direct connection from the CBD to the airport in under 30 minutes.

A copy of the report recommending the route and the costs is here: https://Railpage.com.au/downloads?mode=download.view&id=1239

How do we get from $516m to $13b?  Does the majority of the money go into the ALP via the back door?

From the Age

The original plan was for the track to run via Broadmeadows, rather than the more circuitous journey through Sunshine, but with far more housing along the Broadmeadows corridor to be potentially affected by a new express airport rail line, in 2001 a state government planning panel recommended the new route via Sunshine.

That report estimated an airport rail link would cost between $213 million and $516 million.

The current official estimate for the project stands at $8 billion to 13 billion, although it is not clear precisely what this budget includes. Construction of the airport rail link will start in 2022 and finish by 2029, delivering train services to the city every 10 minutes. Airport trains will run through the new Metro Tunnel and into the south-eastern suburbs via the Cranbourne and Pakenham lines.

The government has promised the new rail link will provide a direct connection from the CBD to the airport in under 30 minutes.

A copy of the report recommending the route and the costs is here: https://Railpage.com.au/downloads?mode=download.view&id=1239

How do we get from $516m to $13b?  Does the majority of the money go into the ALP via the back door?

Bevans, can you at least do some rudimentary analysis instead of making baseless assertions that not even David Davis has uttered? Granted $10 Billion is far too much.

The proposal was in 2001 and it was going to be simply a spur line from Broadmeadows to the Airport. The route from Broadmeadows to the City was to use the existing suburban line.

The decision to route through Sunshine was for greater connectivity with the rest of the network and less disruption to the existing network.


Michael

The airport link will use elevated rail through Sunshine North, Keilor East and Airport West:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-28/melbourne-airport-link-to-use-elevated-track/13017404

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/melbourne-airport-rail-line-to-soar-high-over-maribyrnong-river-20201228-p56qfa.html
Hopefully there will be some stations built to service those areas.

What do you think is the basis of this design?  There are ,many housing estates out that way which would benefit from the local services on the current line why elevate along a goods corridor?

This will also increase the cost of the build.  Now we are starting to see what it really looks like and the government waited until 28th of december to send into the media.

There won't be any intermediate stations between Sunshine and the Airport. And if they went the Tunnel route, that would also be the result.

Elevation will be restricted to the area around the existing Maribyrnong Bridge. They will just build a new track pair along the existing goods corridor.

I cannot for the life of me think as to why this is going to cost $10 Billion, when the MM1 with 9km of deep level tunnels and 5 Stations is costing $12 Billion.

Michael

Technically the Metro tunnel was about 11 billion until it found out there was a budget blowout of about $2.74 billion, it is now costing 13.74 billion dollars.

Even so, I can sort of justify $13.74 Billion for Melbourne Metro 1 and 9 Years. But $10 Billion and 7 years for mostly a track pair a new bridge and about 6 kms of entirely new build and 1 new station. I find that unbelievable.

Michael

The metro tunnel doesn't include the rolling stock, all of the signalling or stabling works, when you add them up they add up to billions more. The only portion the metro tunnel covers outside the tunneling is the West Footscray station turnback.

Honestly the station and tunnelling at the airport section is an easy 1 billion, another 500 million upgrade of Sunshine station, a few flyovers at 200 million each one, a new stabling yard or expanded existing one 200-500 million, another billion for the signalling and track, 100 million for the bridge over the Maribynong river, about 100 million for an additional station between Sunshine and the Airport, another 0.5-1 billion for the new trains, another few hundred million for property acquisition, the planning is another few hundred million and you see it start to add into the billions. It's unlikely to be the full 10 billion, but it's definitely quite an expensive project when you add up the different components. Guessing it's about 5-7 billion dollar project including the trains and other extra additions too.