V/Line Incidents/Disruptions #2

 
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
This morning's Up Bairnsdale loco hauled service failed and terminated at Traralgon.

A66 (fresh from overhaul and a repaint) was despatched from Southern Cross for International Rescue duties.

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  jakar Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
This morning's Up Bairnsdale loco hauled service failed and terminated at Traralgon.

A66 (fresh from overhaul and a repaint) was despatched from Southern Cross for International Rescue duties.
Gman_86
Not quite right, Monday's DOWN evening Bairnsdale had issues and terminated at Warragul where it was shunted into the yard. The A and an N were rostered to do a test run anyway so instead of sourcing a 3rd loco the A + N were utilized to retrieve the train.

A source who keeps on eye on these things suggests that all Albury services have been bustituted yesterday and today with the usual lame excuses.
Bingley Hall
Haven't looked in detail but almost all the SG rolling stock is out of action at the moment. The carriage sets have wheel issues (flats from skidding IIRC) and lunch room gossip suggests that there is a wheel/flange wear issue on the SG Vlo's. Apparently they're running one kitted out with cameras and test equipment to find out what, where and why its occurring. Would seem there is something unique about the Nth East SG that is causing problems that are not found elsewhere.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Banned
Pity it's all now SG, otherwise an R class with a set of  E cars would do the job well.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Pity it's all now SG, otherwise an R class with a set of  E cars would do the job well.
Valvegear
Hire some S class diesels from heritage groups (including SSR Laughing) and the SoP carriages from SRHC maybe?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Pity it's all now SG, otherwise an R class with a set of  E cars would do the job well.
Hire some S class diesels from heritage groups (including SSR Laughing) and the SoP carriages from SRHC maybe?
BrentonGolding
Hire R766 with the Picnic Train set from NSW....
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
More to this than we know.

Funny how everything else has run OK on the NE SG in Victoria since 1962 but suddenly Vlocitys are a problem.

Do Vlocitys have a different wheel profile from everything else?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

More to this than we know.

Funny how everything else has run OK on the NE SG in Victoria since 1962 but suddenly Vlocitys are a problem.

Do Vlocitys have a different wheel profile from everything else?
YM-Mundrabilla
They are "slippery" according to those whom I know that drive them.  The sanders on V/los always get a good workout, especially if there is any moisture on the railhead.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
More to this than we know.

Funny how everything else has run OK on the NE SG in Victoria since 1962 but suddenly Vlocitys are a problem.

Do Vlocitys have a different wheel profile from everything else?
YM-Mundrabilla
V/Locity's and Sprinters use the PTC MP-2 profile. N Class carriages use MP-1 and the N-Class use the ANZR1 1:40 profile.

They are "slippery" according to those whom I know that drive them.  The sanders on V/los always get a good workout, especially if there is any moisture on the railhead.
Carnot
Not altogether unexpected for disc-braked, lightweight vehicles. Whereas tread-braked bogies can have a 'path-clearing' effect on the railhead that tends to remove most contaminants following the passage of the first bogie, disc-braked equipment merely runs over them and keeps right on doing so - the problem here is it can lead to having the entire trainset in a state of wheelslide, with...undesirable...results for the Driver's seat cushions.
  skitz Chief Commissioner

More to this than we know.

Funny how everything else has run OK on the NE SG in Victoria since 1962 but suddenly Vlocitys are a problem.

Do Vlocitys have a different wheel profile from everything else?
V/Locity's and Sprinters use the PTC MP-2 profile. N Class carriages use MP-1 and the N-Class use the ANZR1 1:40 profile.

They are "slippery" according to those whom I know that drive them.  The sanders on V/los always get a good workout, especially if there is any moisture on the railhead.
Not altogether unexpected for disc-braked, lightweight vehicles. Whereas tread-braked bogies can have a 'path-clearing' effect on the railhead that tends to remove most contaminants following the passage of the first bogie, disc-braked equipment merely runs over them and keeps right on doing so - the problem here is it can lead to having the entire trainset in a state of wheelslide, with...undesirable...results for the Driver's seat cushions.
KRviator
Bit more going on than that.   Given the rail cars are effectively a one-off on a track that is otherwise 'very clean and used' by other traffic, being disk braked would not make any real difference.  

Have not seen anything really to say what the actual issue is yet.   Wear, ride, hunting, suspension damage (impact or yaw), could be anything.

If there is a wheel/rail interface issue it would be reasonably quick to identify the issue.   The 'slippery' comment would immediately be followed up by 'how stable is it when the speed gets up?'.   Contact issues.

Where does the happen?   What track and what rail.  When?  How fast?  One track is pretty much new 60kg and the other is older 47kg.   I would survey what the gauge of the rail is and more importantly what is the gauge of the applied profiles.  The 47kg had a lot of flow from its previous life to gauge, now regauged on concrete (not wide from being on timber), is the profile proud on the gauge corner (effective tight gauge, no good).  Both NE tracks I have observed 'tight effective gauge' which is not good for ride stability.   Though I have not seen the track in recent times to note the quality of the rail grinding.  

How compatible is the wheel and rail profile when they are new, worn or otherwise?  How does its contact stack up with the contact created by the general traffic?

What lubrication is out there?  Where is that being carried to?

The rabbit hole of questions go on and on.  

Any drivers care to comment on what the ride has been like, though do not want to put you at risk of being exposed commenting out of school.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
Bit more going on than that.   Given the rail cars are effectively a one-off on a track that is otherwise 'very clean and used' by other traffic, being disk braked would not make any real difference.  

Have not seen anything really to say what the actual issue is yet.   Wear, ride, hunting, suspension damage (impact or yaw), could be anything.

If there is a wheel/rail interface issue it would be reasonably quick to identify the issue.   The 'slippery' comment would immediately be followed up by 'how stable is it when the speed gets up?'.   Contact issues.

Where does the happen?   What track and what rail.  When?  How fast?  One track is pretty much new 60kg and the other is older 47kg.   I would survey what the gauge of the rail is and more importantly what is the gauge of the applied profiles.  The 47kg had a lot of flow from its previous life to gauge, now regauged on concrete (not wide from being on timber), is the profile proud on the gauge corner (effective tight gauge, no good).  Both NE tracks I have observed 'tight effective gauge' which is not good for ride stability.   Though I have not seen the track in recent times to note the quality of the rail grinding.  

How compatible is the wheel and rail profile when they are new, worn or otherwise?  How does its contact stack up with the contact created by the general traffic?

What lubrication is out there?  Where is that being carried to?

The rabbit hole of questions go on and on.  

Any drivers care to comment on what the ride has been like, though do not want to put you at risk of being exposed commenting out of school.
skitz
Spot on @skitz, I didn't mean to imply that simply being light on their feet with disc brakes would be the root of all evil here -your post highlights several more issues that are under investigation from the gauge through to any lubricators (Don't recall mention of any outside the Metrop down there) through to the hardness of the rails themselves. There are much deeper issues at play than just a light axle load limiting adhesion.

I remember reading bits of an IRT report from V/Line a few years back about the investigation into the rapid wheell wear and with a bit of digging, and for any nerds out there, here's The Monash V/Locity wheel wear investigation in *.PDF format. I hope...
  jakar Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
They are "slippery" according to those whom I know that drive them.
Carnot
Correct, they can be very 'slippery' under braking and powering. I still find it amusing when the automatic sanders kick in at 160km/h for wheel spin on relatively flat track! They're slippery everywhere though, not just on the SG, so I doubt that's a factor here.
  skitz Chief Commissioner

Bit more going on than that.   Given the rail cars are effectively a one-off on a track that is otherwise 'very clean and used' by other traffic, being disk braked would not make any real difference.  

Have not seen anything really to say what the actual issue is yet.   Wear, ride, hunting, suspension damage (impact or yaw), could be anything.

If there is a wheel/rail interface issue it would be reasonably quick to identify the issue.   The 'slippery' comment would immediately be followed up by 'how stable is it when the speed gets up?'.   Contact issues.

Where does the happen?   What track and what rail.  When?  How fast?  One track is pretty much new 60kg and the other is older 47kg.   I would survey what the gauge of the rail is and more importantly what is the gauge of the applied profiles.  The 47kg had a lot of flow from its previous life to gauge, now regauged on concrete (not wide from being on timber), is the profile proud on the gauge corner (effective tight gauge, no good).  Both NE tracks I have observed 'tight effective gauge' which is not good for ride stability.   Though I have not seen the track in recent times to note the quality of the rail grinding.  

How compatible is the wheel and rail profile when they are new, worn or otherwise?  How does its contact stack up with the contact created by the general traffic?

What lubrication is out there?  Where is that being carried to?

The rabbit hole of questions go on and on.  

Any drivers care to comment on what the ride has been like, though do not want to put you at risk of being exposed commenting out of school.
Spot on @skitz, I didn't mean to imply that simply being light on their feet with disc brakes would be the root of all evil here -your post highlights several more issues that are under investigation from the gauge through to any lubricators (Don't recall mention of any outside the Metrop down there) through to the hardness of the rails themselves. There are much deeper issues at play than just a light axle load limiting adhesion.

I remember reading bits of an IRT report from V/Line a few years back about the investigation into the rapid wheell wear and with a bit of digging, and for any nerds out there, here's The Monash V/Locity wheel wear investigation in *.PDF format. I hope...
KRviator
If you want to do a RP dig, I called out what the issue was there long before Monash made $ from the issue.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Swingin' on the (Up) Swanners this evening, I am almost certain I just heard and felt a platform scrape going through Sunbury at speed

Does that count as "field side damage"?

***edit*** Nope, not a platform scrape, it just happened again near Calder Park. Might have to get out of this carriage methinks.......
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Swingin' on the (Up) Swanners this evening, I am almost certain I just heard and felt a platform scrape going through Sunbury at speed

Does that count as "field side damage"?
BrentonGolding
Did you do an examination when you got off?
Or, perhaps wisely, like Sergeant Schultz, do you know nothing? Realising that a report would probably result in 100% bustitution for six months.Rolling Eyes
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Swingin' on the (Up) Swanners this evening, I am almost certain I just heard and felt a platform scrape going through Sunbury at speed

Does that count as "field side damage"?
Did you do an examination when you got off?
Or, perhaps wisely, like Sergeant Schultz, do you know nothing? Realising that a report would probably result in 100% bustitution for six months.Rolling Eyes
YM-Mundrabilla
No inspection, too dark and I had to run for my connection to Norf

No conductor to be seen on the whole trip (must be a regular on the following V/Locity service and got confused, no buffet service either as an aside) and the last time I tried to report a 'train fault' to the V/Line talking head at Footscray I was told in no uncertain terms to smeg off!!!
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Swingin' on the (Up) Swanners this evening, I am almost certain I just heard and felt a platform scrape going through Sunbury at speed

Does that count as "field side damage"?
Did you do an examination when you got off?
Or, perhaps wisely, like Sergeant Schultz, do you know nothing? Realising that a report would probably result in 100% bustitution for six months.Rolling Eyes
No inspection, too dark and I had to run for my connection to Norf

No conductor to be seen on the whole trip (must be a regular on the following V/Locity service and got confused, no buffet service either as an aside) and the last time I tried to report a 'train fault' to the V/Line talking head at Footscray I was told in no uncertain terms to smeg off!!!
BrentonGolding
You are not alone there BG.

Many years ago there was a broken rail in one of the suburban platforms at Flinders Street. A very senior and experienced rail engineer at work asked me to report it.
  • Went for look-see so as be able to accurately describe the location and the detail of the fault.  
  • Goody goody - I get to press the big red button on the platform.Smile
  • Have you ever tried talking to the rent a crowd on the moon?
  • Eventually got the message through and then waited on the platform to 'watch the outcome' thinking that sparks would be diverted to the other side of the island.
  • Not so! At least two trains came and went 'thumping' through the break at speeds normal for the location.
  • Don't know if the drivers felt and/or reported the problem.
  • Went back to work but by the evening the break had been repaired.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
@BrentonGolding Have you tried reporting using the social channels?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Banned
@BrentonGolding Have you tried reporting using the social channels?
"railblogger"
I'm told that Channel Nine and the Women's Weekly are the best payers:roll:
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Who was the idiot that ripped up the passing track at Oakleigh?  Who is responsible for this stupidity?
  Djebel Chief Train Controller

Who was the idiot that ripped up the passing track at Oakleigh?  Who is responsible for this stupidity?
Carnot
Would the passing track be long enough to put away the goods?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Who was the idiot that ripped up the passing track at Oakleigh?  Who is responsible for this stupidity?
Would the passing track be long enough to put away the goods?
Djebel
It used to be 600m long.  Enough for most, although some of the Maryvale's might struggle.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Who was the idiot that ripped up the passing track at Oakleigh?  Who is responsible for this stupidity?
Would the passing track be long enough to put away the goods?
It used to be 600m long.  Enough for most, although some of the Maryvale's might struggle.
Carnot
Are we forgetting the 2km siding/bypass at Westall ????
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Banned
Who was the idiot that ripped up the passing track at Oakleigh?  Who is responsible for this stupidity?
"Carnot"
Probably the same drongo who singled the Bendigo line.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
And mandated BG (only) concrete sleepers in all locations ever likely to benefit from conversion to SG.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
V/Line communications carked it again with all lines disrupted.

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