Hurstbridge Line Upgrade Stage 2

 
  3088D Station Master

The news report is stating trains every 6.5 minutes but the line where I am is already at capacity and the trains are already full as you get between Heidelberg and Clifton Hill.

There is also mention of the upgrade at Clifton Hill Junction which would mean what?
Well after nearly 3 years, are we any closer to knowing if anything at all is planned yet? Or is it another announcement with no follow up?
Tii
If you refer to the work being undertaken for Clifton Hill and about electrical work near Jolimont there is advice here
about the electrical tie-in station and here about track and signalling upgrade work at Clifton Hill and stabling facilities near Vic Park. The line is closed this weekend for more of this work.

The big news is I think they’ve painted the edge of the platform at Clifton Hill in recent activity, at least I hadn’t noticed it before this week.

At the start of this thread in 2018, and as recently in the February 2021 in this press statement from the Premier a headway of seven minutes from Greensborough and ten minutes from Eltham and Monty was mentioned.

Danielle Green (Labor state MP for Yan Yean) issued a similar press statement in October reiterating that (peak?) trains would run "every six-and-a-half minutes at Greensborough, every 10 minutes at Eltham and Montmorency, and every 20 minutes at Hurstbridge, Diamond Creek and Wattle Glen”. In other words, half the Eltham up trains start at Hursty.

In an hour if Hursty supplies 3 (currently 2), Eltham another 3 (currently 4) for the “every 10 minutes at Eltham and Montmorency” then Greensborough must be the origin of another 3 to constitute the "every six-and-a-half minutes” service from Greensborough - or 9 per hour. This isn’t much increase in service unless this will be the pattern all day which I find hard to believe. Currently Greensborough sees 7 up trains from 6am to 7am, and 9 up trains from 7am to 8 am (2 originating from 6am-7am and 3 from 7am-8am), reducing to three per hour in the off-peak - a Saturday timetable.

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  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

The news report is stating trains every 6.5 minutes but the line where I am is already at capacity and the trains are already full as you get between Heidelberg and Clifton Hill.

There is also mention of the upgrade at Clifton Hill Junction which would mean what?
Well after nearly 3 years, are we any closer to knowing if anything at all is planned yet? Or is it another announcement with no follow up?
Tii
Constuction started a couple of months ago, with Sites being established at Greensborough, Monty and Diamond Creek. Major works are planned throughout 2021.

As for Clifton Hill there has been little mention at this stage besides the Jan 2020 press release

Rail system and signalling upgrades along the Hurstbridge line, including at Clifton Hill.
LXRP
The junction at Clifton Hill was rationalised sometime ago. They could replace/upgrade the track work and resignal to push more services through the choke point. But I wouldn't be expecting much here.

Lockie
  Tii Locomotive Fireman

The news report is stating trains every 6.5 minutes but the line where I am is already at capacity and the trains are already full as you get between Heidelberg and Clifton Hill.

There is also mention of the upgrade at Clifton Hill Junction which would mean what?
Well after nearly 3 years, are we any closer to knowing if anything at all is planned yet? Or is it another announcement with no follow up?
If you refer to the work being undertaken for Clifton Hill and about electrical work near Jolimont there is advice here
about the electrical tie-in station and here about track and signalling upgrade work at Clifton Hill and stabling facilities near Vic Park. The line is closed this weekend for more of this work.

The big news is I think they’ve painted the edge of the platform at Clifton Hill in recent activity, at least I hadn’t noticed it before this week.
......
3088D
Yes I was referring more to the Clifton Hill junction for Hurstbridge/Mernda. Is it just a signalling/power upgrade I guess, rather than a whole junction change for now. If that works then great, waiting at Rushall is often a pain, and with the planned increases to frequency on both lines in a few years, I wonder how it will manage ?
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
about the electrical tie-in station and here about track and signalling upgrade work at Clifton Hill and stabling facilities near Vic Park. The line is closed this weekend for more of this work.

The big news is I think they’ve painted the edge of the platform at Clifton Hill in recent activity, at least I hadn’t noticed it before this week.
3088D
As Lockie says that press release is dated Jan 2020 and we have heard nothing since about what is going to take place at Clifton Hill to try to alleviate the choke point

At various times over the last 10 years I spent some time living in Northcote and having to wait line at Rushall each and every weekday morning and then I spent a few years commuting from Victoria Park to Southern Cross in the AM peak where it wasn't unusual to see 2 or 3 trains stop and go without being able to board due to overcrowding before I forced my way on as I risked missing my V/Line connection.

Whenever I am reminded of these times I thank goodness that I don't have to endure either of those trips anymore.
  Tii Locomotive Fireman

about the electrical tie-in station and here about track and signalling upgrade work at Clifton Hill and stabling facilities near Vic Park. The line is closed this weekend for more of this work.

The big news is I think they’ve painted the edge of the platform at Clifton Hill in recent activity, at least I hadn’t noticed it before this week.
As Lockie says that press release is dated Jan 2020 and we have heard nothing since about what is going to take place at Clifton Hill to try to alleviate the choke point

At various times over the last 10 years I spent some time living in Northcote and having to wait line at Rushall each and every weekday morning and then I spent a few years commuting from Victoria Park to Southern Cross in the AM peak where it wasn't unusual to see 2 or 3 trains stop and go without being able to board due to overcrowding before I forced my way on as I risked missing my V/Line connection.

Whenever I am reminded of these times I thank goodness that I don't have to endure either of those trips anymore.
BrentonGolding
Likewise coming from Reservoir with the wait at Rushall each time. If Metro 2 ever happened with a dive from Merri under Clifton Hill, then great but I'll be dead before that ever starts or announced. But realistically if Mernda line increases off peak frequency after the planned LX removals this year,  then the situation isn't good without something. No update since 2020, so I'm guessing its another nothing other than power upgrades.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

about the electrical tie-in station and here about track and signalling upgrade work at Clifton Hill and stabling facilities near Vic Park. The line is closed this weekend for more of this work.

The big news is I think they’ve painted the edge of the platform at Clifton Hill in recent activity, at least I hadn’t noticed it before this week.
As Lockie says that press release is dated Jan 2020 and we have heard nothing since about what is going to take place at Clifton Hill to try to alleviate the choke point

At various times over the last 10 years I spent some time living in Northcote and having to wait line at Rushall each and every weekday morning and then I spent a few years commuting from Victoria Park to Southern Cross in the AM peak where it wasn't unusual to see 2 or 3 trains stop and go without being able to board due to overcrowding before I forced my way on as I risked missing my V/Line connection.

Whenever I am reminded of these times I thank goodness that I don't have to endure either of those trips anymore.
Likewise coming from Reservoir with the wait at Rushall each time. If Metro 2 ever happened with a dive from Merri under Clifton Hill, then great but I'll be dead before that ever starts or announced. But realistically if Mernda line increases off peak frequency after the planned LX removals this year,  then the situation isn't good without something. No update since 2020, so I'm guessing its another nothing other than power upgrades.
Tii
The big issue with the junction is not the junction itself, it is the single sections of track along the Hurstbridge line and the nightmare timetabling that needs to be done.

This has been slightly resolved as part of the Stage 1 upgrades to Rossana, removing one bottleneck. The last remaining one is Greensborough - Eltham which will be 90% resolved at the end of these works. (not 100% until the trestle bridge is solved).

Timetablers need to schedule trains to avoid conflicts at Clifton Hill. The means standardising the timetables on both the Mernda and Hurstbridge lines to arrive with in minutes of each other as to not cause delays. This is compounded by the need to do the same thing previously at Rossana and currently at Eltham.

So you have to avoid a conflict on the single section of track at Eltham, then again at Rossana and then finally timetable to avoid conflicts with the Merdna Line at Clifton Hill. If you have a late running DOWN Hurstbridge service this impacts the UP services on the single line sections, this inturn impacts the Clifton Hill Junction causing knock on delays out to Mernda which effects UP trains back to the junction which effect DOWN services back on the Hurstbridge line.

Talk about a bloody nightmare.

Having set frequencies from Eltham and Mernda makes the shuffle at the Junction much easier. Similar to what is done at Dandenong.

Lockie
  route14 Chief Commissioner

It's a pity that the duplication between Clifton Hill and Westgarth didn't include a flyover above the Mernda line.
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
It's a pity that the duplication between Clifton Hill and Westgarth didn't include a flyover above the Mernda line.
route14
You'd have to knock down the Heidelberg Rd overpass on the down end first - and that's not going to happen in a hurry

Neil
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

It's a pity that the duplication between Clifton Hill and Westgarth didn't include a flyover above the Mernda line.
You'd have to knock down the Heidelberg Rd overpass on the down end first - and that's not going to happen in a hurry

Neil
ngarner
It's a right old mess.

Dig a trench (to remove the level crossing) and you have issues with merri creek I assume

The easiest way I can see is to raise the railway line and lower the road, but that's $500m I don't think the government wants to spend.

(You would be looking at Clifton Hill being 3 or 4 platforms ideally, with the hurstbride outbound track rising over the Mernda inbound track)

I'm thinking like Jurong East

  route14 Chief Commissioner

It has to happen sooner or later.  A flat junction is not going to cope with the increasing frequency.  The demand increase is unrelenting.
  Tii Locomotive Fireman

It has to happen sooner or later.  A flat junction is not going to cope with the increasing frequency.  The demand increase is unrelenting.
route14
I guess we will see what happens once the Hurstbridge line 2 upgrade and the Mernda LX removals are done in 2022- maybe a new timetable then with higher off-peak frequencies perhaps (every 15 min?) Isn't High Capacity signalling potentially helpful to allow trains to run closer together. too from CH to city.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

It has to happen sooner or later.  A flat junction is not going to cope with the increasing frequency.  The demand increase is unrelenting.
I guess we will see what happens once the Hurstbridge line 2 upgrade and the Mernda LX removals are done in 2022- maybe a new timetable then with higher off-peak frequencies perhaps (every 15 min?) Isn't High Capacity signalling potentially helpful to allow trains to run closer together. too from CH to city.
Tii
At the moment the conventional signalling allows for a train every 3.5 minutes, they'd be wanting to get that down to 2.5 or even 2 minutes ideally. A combination of in cab signalling and an upgraded Clifton Hill could do that quite comfortably, as long as delayed trains could be held out of the way.

edit: Off peak they could run every 10 minutes to both Mernda and Greensborough today if they wanted to.
  tom9876543 Train Controller

Re flat junction and Clifton Hill:

There is clearly enough room under Heidelberg Rd Bridge to build 4 railway tracks.

Clifton Hill station needs to be completely rebuilt as 4 railway tracks with 2 island platforms.
If there is a heritage problem I think the heritage overlay is stupid and should be removed.
There are many other stations in Melbourne network that represent railway architecture.

When Clifton Hill station is 4 platforms, there isn't any merge problem on the down side of station.

The railways tracks can merge on the up side of the station. Eventually 4 tracks can be extended further in up direction towards Flinders St.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
If Metro 2 gets built I expect Clifton Hill station would get 2 underground platforms for the Mernda line, leaving the existing platforms for the Hurstbridge line.

Meaning you wouldn't need the concrete jungle seen at Jurong East.
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
And work has begun between Diamond Creek and Wattle Glen with some very large trees lopped near Wattle Glen and other vegetation clearing obviously underway

Neil

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