Scott Morrison's imploding act

 

Pinned post created by dthead

Posted last year

  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Not sure if you've noticed or not Shane but we have some really intractable structural problems with our economy that are coming conflating to cause a plunge in GDP. Wages can't get off the canvas after some eight years at or below inflation; that's critical because it has ultimately resulted in consumers putting off buying big ticket things - especially cars. Given we rely so much here on consumers for our prosperity there's an effective recession in retail already going on.

And its pretty extraordinary that the RBA cuts rates to an unprecedented post WWII level and yet apart from re-igniting property prices in Sydney and Melbourne it's done nothing to get business/individuals borrowing again. Even today ScoMo had to deny that the IMF forecasts painted a shadowy picture of our economy... I guess he can't do anything else but deny the reality.

It might surprise you that I think part of the answer might be to abolish all award wages - maybe $18 an hour is too high by international standards and in many industries like hospitality and cleaning there's no enforcement anyway so employers who follow the laws are being disadvantaged. The people on the bottom are going to take the brunt of this I know but maybe it's time we also recognised that we aren't a fair and egalitarian kind of society any more with that kind of regulation.
don_dunstan
I thought it was "end of story", is this an appendix?

Don, welcome to the global economy of 2019 where inflation is non-existent, the two largest economy leaders are too busy saying who has the biggest peni$/tariffs. Even the oil rich middle east economies are facing growth of 1.7% for UAE and 0.2% for KSA. Why does anyone thing we would be different?

The IMF's view of Australia varies by how much from anywhere else?

I'm been in RP for around 17 years, reading "The Lounge" section for around 6-8 years and for most of that time you have been predicting a recession, one day you will be right I'm sure.

You may recall I'm on record many times saying Australia's penalty rates are out of touch with the real world and what the LNP Fed's are doing (after the ALP Fed's did similar in 2012) is just scratching the surface but moving in the right direction for which maybe you criticized me on this more than once. Surely being paid nearly $50 on a Sunday to pour a cup of coffee was excessive?

NOW, back to your original comment, AGAIN, No Australian and Greek economies are not comparable and it would be foolish to think otherwise, or perhaps you have been there and can explain from first hand experience?

Again I'm waiting for you to complete the comparison.

Sponsored advertisement

  9034 Train Controller

...

Now, if you really believe its compatible with Australia, why not add the Australian figures along side it....of you go, I'm waiting.

Australia's GDP growth is terrible, worse than the supposed basket case of Greece. I guess that makes us a basket case too. End of story.
....still waiting or don't you want the truth to get in the way of a good story?
I gave you the answer, Shane, the dream is over.
don_dunstan
We look in pretty good shape as compared with Greece

From Wikipedia

The economy of Australia is a highly developed market economy.[30] Its GDP was estimated at A$1.69 trillion as of 2017.[31] In 2018 Australia became the country with the largest median wealth per adult.

The economy of Greece is the 51st largest in the world with a nominal gross domestic product (GDP) of $218.032 billion per annum

Quite a large difference in GDP there

I know where I would rather live.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I gave you the answer, Shane, the dream is over.
don_dunstan
No you didn't, you changed the topic quoted from the air and avoided the answer outright!
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
We look in pretty good shape as compared with Greece

From Wikipedia

The economy of Australia is a highly developed market economy.[30] Its GDP was estimated at A$1.69 trillion as of 2017.[31] In 2018 Australia became the country with the largest median wealth per adult.

The economy of Greece is the 51st largest in the world with a nominal gross domestic product (GDP) of $218.032 billion per annum

Quite a large difference in GDP there

I know where I would rather live.
9034
Yes, if you need a job, want to heard some of the highest salaries in the world, live in the largest average houses etc, its not Greece, unless maybe you are cashed up and want a low cost retirement!
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I thought it was "end of story", is this an appendix?

Don, welcome to the global economy of 2019 where inflation is non-existent, the two largest economy leaders are too busy saying who has the biggest peni$/tariffs. Even the oil rich middle east economies are facing growth of 1.7% for UAE and 0.2% for KSA. Why does anyone thing we would be different?

The IMF's view of Australia varies by how much from anywhere else?

I'm been in RP for around 17 years, reading "The Lounge" section for around 6-8 years and for most of that time you have been predicting a recession, one day you will be right I'm sure.
RTT_Rules
In terms of where we are there's some pretty diabolical irrefutable problems:
  • Average wages flat or outright declining since 2012 for everyone except CEO's.
  • 0.75% official interest rates showing no signs of stopping till we get to zero.
  • Four fifths of the growth in GDP recently has been government spending, it's a Keynesian economy already.
You pride yourself as being someone who has made provision for your own future, imagine a world with nowhere to escape from negative interest rates - banks can't possibly pay savers much lower rates before people start putting it under mattresses. We have some extremely perverse economic incentives happening right now.

These are extremely challenging times for the globalised economic community, what resources do we have to fall back on in Australia to deal with a prolonged economic downturn?
You may recall I'm on record many times saying Australia's penalty rates are out of touch with the real world and what the LNP Fed's are doing (after the ALP Fed's did similar in 2012) is just scratching the surface but moving in the right direction for which maybe you criticized me on this more than once. Surely being paid nearly $50 on a Sunday to pour a cup of coffee was excessive? NOW, back to your original comment, AGAIN, No Australian and Greek economies are not comparable and it would be foolish to think otherwise, or perhaps you have been there and can explain from first hand experience? Again I'm waiting for you to complete the comparison.
RTT_Rules
All I'm doing here is acknowledging the reality of the situation here in Australia in 2019 which is that nobody is paying award in hospitality any longer - so why have an award at all? I think the Fair Work Australia figures are something like 80% of employers they audited on the various Melbourne restaurant strips weren't paying award. So if the law is being so widely broken and obviously un-policed then it's pretty unfair to the 20% of employers who ARE doing the right thing isn't it.

And you do realise that all of this is going to make the Australian economic situation much, much worse. Wages growth is part of GDP you know, not having any at all is what is dragging growth backwards and hence our standard of living - allowing wages to be cut wholesale across one industry probably isn't fair if we don't apply to EVERY industry, so why have awards and minimum wages at all any more? Might as well completely unravel the hard-fought gains that the unions make on behalf of the working class in this country since the 1890's - why not - there's generation upon generation of Australians who haven't known extreme poverty and slum conditions on our own shores.

And while we're at it, back poor houses for those who can't cope, none of this 'dole' business.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I gave you the answer, Shane, the dream is over.
No you didn't, you changed the topic quoted from the air and avoided the answer outright!
RTT_Rules
Because you only want to look at the part of the argument that you think you can win and I'm saying the answer is more complicated than a straight-out comparison.

But as usual you're stamping your foot like a naughty three year old in a shopping centre because I won't play the way you want me to.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I gave you the answer, Shane, the dream is over.
No you didn't, you changed the topic quoted from the air and avoided the answer outright!
Because you only want to look at the part of the argument that you think you can win and I'm saying the answer is more complicated than a straight-out comparison.

But as usual you're stamping your foot like a naughty three year old in a shopping centre because I won't play the way you want me to.
don_dunstan
You state "you only want to look at the part of the argument" to me, yet you are the one basis your whole argument on one KPI? But now you are saying its too complicated to do a simple straight-out comparison. Thats not where you were a few post ago!

So no, I want you to quote as many facts from the likes of "Trading economics" as you wish to demonstrate that Australia is worse off than Greece.

No, all I'm asking for you is to back up your comments that you so firmly believe in. Bevan's posted a photo that in my view is nothing more than headline sensationalism and said not true here's a few reasons why, you then stepped in and said it is because you say so and then when I again injected and said no, this is why. You then went off on a tangent  which had completely nothing to do with the original quoting from the air, ie just your opinion.

I'm now saying, this is not correct. I posted some reasons why you won't address this and demonstrate not.

Ok fine. I get it, you made a mistake, stepped in with a adhoc comment that wasn't correct and don't want to admit it, point taken. Lets just leave it there and move on then to something else. Smile
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I thought it was "end of story", is this an appendix?

Don, welcome to the global economy of 2019 where inflation is non-existent, the two largest economy leaders are too busy saying who has the biggest peni$/tariffs. Even the oil rich middle east economies are facing growth of 1.7% for UAE and 0.2% for KSA. Why does anyone thing we would be different?

The IMF's view of Australia varies by how much from anywhere else?

I'm been in RP for around 17 years, reading "The Lounge" section for around 6-8 years and for most of that time you have been predicting a recession, one day you will be right I'm sure.
In terms of where we are there's some pretty diabolical irrefutable problems:
  • Average wages flat or outright declining since 2012 for everyone except CEO's.
  • 0.75% official interest rates showing no signs of stopping till we get to zero.
  • Four fifths of the growth in GDP recently has been government spending, it's a Keynesian economy already.
You pride yourself as being someone who has made provision for your own future, imagine a world with nowhere to escape from negative interest rates - banks can't possibly pay savers much lower rates before people start putting it under mattresses. We have some extremely perverse economic incentives happening right now.

These are extremely challenging times for the globalised economic community, what resources do we have to fall back on in Australia to deal with a prolonged economic downturn?
You may recall I'm on record many times saying Australia's penalty rates are out of touch with the real world and what the LNP Fed's are doing (after the ALP Fed's did similar in 2012) is just scratching the surface but moving in the right direction for which maybe you criticized me on this more than once. Surely being paid nearly $50 on a Sunday to pour a cup of coffee was excessive? NOW, back to your original comment, AGAIN, No Australian and Greek economies are not comparable and it would be foolish to think otherwise, or perhaps you have been there and can explain from first hand experience? Again I'm waiting for you to complete the comparison.
All I'm doing here is acknowledging the reality of the situation here in Australia in 2019 which is that nobody is paying award in hospitality any longer - so why have an award at all? I think the Fair Work Australia figures are something like 80% of employers they audited on the various Melbourne restaurant strips weren't paying award. So if the law is being so widely broken and obviously un-policed then it's pretty unfair to the 20% of employers who ARE doing the right thing isn't it.

And you do realise that all of this is going to make the Australian economic situation much, much worse. Wages growth is part of GDP you know, not having any at all is what is dragging growth backwards and hence our standard of living - allowing wages to be cut wholesale across one industry probably isn't fair if we don't apply to EVERY industry, so why have awards and minimum wages at all any more? Might as well completely unravel the hard-fought gains that the unions make on behalf of the working class in this country since the 1890's - why not - there's generation upon generation of Australians who haven't known extreme poverty and slum conditions on our own shores.

And while we're at it, back poor houses for those who can't cope, none of this 'dole' business.
don_dunstan
Again Don, all good stuff, maybe it is maybe its not.

But this started out as Australia is worse than Greece, clearly we are not.

As for where Australia headed, well guess what, welcome to 2019, the worlds a mess, SURPRISE!  Go back to what I said before to save me typing again.

Again, Australia vs Greece......
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Has the 'Economy' thread and this thread traded places Confused

Back to SpinMo, isn't this what Mad Men do?

"build your own reality, create your own facts, and anchor this consequence-free environment with the constant suppression of your opponents".
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/oct/19/scott-morrison-has-his-boot-on-labors-throat-while-pretending-theyre-in-government
  wobert Chief Commissioner
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Has the 'Economy' thread and this thread traded places Confused

Back to SpinMo, isn't this what Mad Men do?

"build your own reality, create your own facts, and anchor this consequence-free environment with the constant suppression of your opponents".
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/oct/19/scott-morrison-has-his-boot-on-labors-throat-while-pretending-theyre-in-government
Groundrelay
If the Liberals don't start priming the pumps soon we are all going to be in trouble. But I guess the pumps don't work because the vandals stole the handles. I didn't think I would see the day when an old 1960's Bob Dylan classic would become relevant again.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
If the Liberals don't start priming the pumps soon we are all going to be in trouble. But I guess the pumps don't work because the vandals stole the handles. I didn't think I would see the day when an old 1960's Bob Dylan classic would become relevant again.
nswtrains
The man never wrote an original lyric or speech in his entire life, he even stole parts of his Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech - All That is Interesting. Joni Mitchell picked up on it years ago labelling him a 'fake' and a 'plagiarist'.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Foreign Minister Marise Payne set up a shell account for "Foreign Minister Penny Wong" on the eve on the May election this year - from The Australian:
DFAT secretary Frances Adamson told Senate estimates on Thursday that the “shell address” was set up for Labor’s foreign affairs spokeswoman on the Friday night before the May 18 election.

She said the address, which was not activated, was needed to ensure the “Red Book” incoming government brief could be delivered to Senator Wong if Labor won the election.

“The judgement was made that in order to be equally ready to serve an elected government, whatever its complexion, this was something that we needed to do,” Ms Adamson said.

The staff obviously didn't have much confidence in their minister's ability to win, did they. Meanwhile, Liberal MP and double-agent Gladys Liu brings the head of the oversea Chinese Communist propaganda arm to Parliament House for a party - via the Herald Sun:

Zhou Guohua was among a large group of supporters who joined Ms Liu at the party to celebrate the Hong Kong-born MP’s maiden speech on July 23.

Mr Zhou is the president of the Shanghainese Association of Australia, an organisation named in parliament as part of the United Front, an arm of the Chinese Communist Party which spreads propaganda and seeks to develop influence overseas.

The revelations have sparked crossbench senator Rex Patrick to call for more controls to be put in place over where representatives of foreign-linked political organisations can go in Parliament House.

…“Serious questions have been raised about Ms Liu’s connections with China’s ‘United Front’ organisations and she has failed to provide the parliament with an adequate account and explanation of her foreign political associations.”

Gladys is clearly a double-agent whose loyalty is divided between Australia and a foreign power. She needs to be sacked under section 44 (1) of the Australian Constitution as the double-agent of a foreign power. The fact that Scott Morrison continues to protect her shows how utterly corrupt they are and bereft of any loyalty to Australian people.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Dastyari resigned for a lot less, and rightly so. Dutton was calling him a Chinese spy and such,  wherein this case Gladys is a spy and where's Dutton and Morrison. Hypocricy much. And the issue with Angus Taylor as well https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/oct/25/angus-taylor-the-doctored-documents-mystery-will-weaken-trust-in-politicians-and-journalism
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Dastyari resigned for a lot less, and rightly so. Dutton was calling him a Chinese spy and such,  wherein this case Gladys is a spy and where's Dutton and Morrison. Hypocricy much. And the issue with Angus Taylor as well https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/oct/25/angus-taylor-the-doctored-documents-mystery-will-weaken-trust-in-politicians-and-journalism
wobert
Can you imagine this happening 40 years ago with an ethnic Russian person being nominated for a seat while still playing footsies with very senior figures in the Soviet overseas propaganda machine? Inviting those people to parliament for a little private party? There would be outrage.

As you said Dastyari got the sack for being too close to the Chinese Communist Party - why shouldn't Gladys Liu?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Australian Ambassador Joe Hockey launches into Donald Trump with a speech about how wonderful 'free trade' is and then promptly re-writes American history - Fairfax/Nine;

In a speech in Missouri on Thursday night (Friday AEDT) Hockey said Trump was right to call out anti-competitive behaviour by China, but that protectionism was a short-term solution that would not solve the flaws in the global trading system...

..."The United States is the most innovative nation on earth but, like every market leader, it will be beaten if it thinks it can do it all on its own," Hockey said in the speech to Westminster College.

"If you abdicate leadership you rarely get it back.

"So the US must not allow itself to walk away from its trade leadership role otherwise it will inevitably pay a very significant economic price."

Referring to the US President's election slogan, he added: "Being open to the world made America great in the first place; it will keep you great."

Not true, up until the formation of the World Trade Organisation in the 1960's the United States was very heavily protectionist; China has also managed to become the world's biggest economy by being heavily protectionist and that's what Trump's fundamental objection is. China needs to allow in foreign investment and agree to abide by the same rules as every other nation participating in the WTO - that's all that Trump has been asking for.

This speech wasn't anything new but Hockey is probably hoping that he will be able to pick up a highly paid gig with a Chinese Communist Party instrumentality like Andrew Robb did.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

If the Liberals don't start priming the pumps soon we are all going to be in trouble. But I guess the pumps don't work because the vandals stole the handles. I didn't think I would see the day when an old 1960's Bob Dylan classic would become relevant again.
The man never wrote an original lyric or speech in his entire life, he even stole parts of his Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech - All That is Interesting. Joni Mitchell picked up on it years ago labelling him a 'fake' and a 'plagiarist'.
don_dunstan
So I guess the persons who awarded him the Nobel Peace Prize were just idiots also. Also I don't recall Joni Mitchell uttering those words about Zimmerman. I rather suspect Don is living in some parallel universe or is a reptilian shape shifter.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Foreign Minister Marise Payne set up a shell account for "Foreign Minister Penny Wong" on the eve on the May election this year - from The Australian:
DFAT secretary Frances Adamson told Senate estimates on Thursday that the “shell address” was set up for Labor’s foreign affairs spokeswoman on the Friday night before the May 18 election.

She said the address, which was not activated, was needed to ensure the “Red Book” incoming government brief could be delivered to Senator Wong if Labor won the election.

“The judgement was made that in order to be equally ready to serve an elected government, whatever its complexion, this was something that we needed to do,” Ms Adamson said.

The staff obviously didn't have much confidence in their minister's ability to win, did they. Meanwhile, Liberal MP and double-agent Gladys Liu brings the head of the oversea Chinese Communist propaganda arm to Parliament House for a party - via the Herald Sun:

Zhou Guohua was among a large group of supporters who joined Ms Liu at the party to celebrate the Hong Kong-born MP’s maiden speech on July 23.

Mr Zhou is the president of the Shanghainese Association of Australia, an organisation named in parliament as part of the United Front, an arm of the Chinese Communist Party which spreads propaganda and seeks to develop influence overseas.

The revelations have sparked crossbench senator Rex Patrick to call for more controls to be put in place over where representatives of foreign-linked political organisations can go in Parliament House.

…“Serious questions have been raised about Ms Liu’s connections with China’s ‘United Front’ organisations and she has failed to provide the parliament with an adequate account and explanation of her foreign political associations.”

Gladys is clearly a double-agent whose loyalty is divided between Australia and a foreign power. She needs to be sacked under section 44 (1) of the Australian Constitution as the double-agent of a foreign power. The fact that Scott Morrison continues to protect her shows how utterly corrupt they are and bereft of any loyalty to Australian people.
don_dunstan
"The Australian." May as well read one of those conspiracy magazines, such as Fortean Times, that seem to populate the magazine shelves these days that propogate far out conspiracies. The Murdoch press has become increasingly shrill about the Labor party recently. Must be worried about ScoMo losing his one seat majority.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
If the Liberals don't start priming the pumps soon we are all going to be in trouble. But I guess the pumps don't work because the vandals stole the handles. I didn't think I would see the day when an old 1960's Bob Dylan classic would become relevant again.
The man never wrote an original lyric or speech in his entire life, he even stole parts of his Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech - All That is Interesting. Joni Mitchell picked up on it years ago labelling him a 'fake' and a 'plagiarist'.
So I guess the persons who awarded him the Nobel Peace Prize were just idiots also. Also I don't recall Joni Mitchell uttering those words about Zimmerman. I rather suspect Don is living in some parallel universe or is a reptilian shape shifter.
nswtrains
NO but the Peace Prize Committee have become quite political over the decades and I guess it's also about promoting the prize itself. And the fact remains that Dylan is a plagiarist - lots of completely unattributed verses and prose from Civil War poets, ancient philosophers and modern literature. Not that its an uncommon thing to do: The artist "Moby" (Richard Melville) also raised sampled a very wide range of stuff from the 20th century and (again) didn't attribute it whatsoever.

Anyway I'm glad to hear you love Saint Bob even if he does steal lyrics.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Gladys is clearly a double-agent whose loyalty is divided between Australia and a foreign power. She needs to be sacked under section 44 (1) of the Australian Constitution as the double-agent of a foreign power. The fact that Scott Morrison continues to protect her shows how utterly corrupt they are and bereft of any loyalty to Australian people.
"The Australian." May as well read one of those conspiracy magazines, such as Fortean Times, that seem to populate the magazine shelves these days that propogate far out conspiracies. The Murdoch press has become increasingly shrill about the Labor party recently. Must be worried about ScoMo losing his one seat majority.
nswtrains
That makes no sense whatsoever, why would the Murdoch press be reporting on the movements of double-agent Gladys Liu if they were trying to help the Morrison government maintain its one-seat majority? Isn't that going to have the exact opposite effect that you're saying and cause Labor to come to the helm?

I'm sorry to say that Aunty has been totally lost to the leftist minority cause whirlpool... they're almost totally uncritical of things that they should be calling out like this. I have mentioned before that I have stalwart Labor Party lifelong friends of your generation who handed out "how-to-vote" cards for Whitlam all the way through to Keating and even they told me that the ABC was too bias and uncritical towards the Shorten team.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
….even they told me that the ABC was too bias and uncritical towards the Shorten team.
don_dunstan
Is that like the royal "they"?  The enemy of your enemy has launched numerous witch hunts with little to show for it.

Newscorpse knows xenophobia works in favour of the Coalition not Labor.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Gladys is clearly a double-agent whose loyalty is divided between Australia and a foreign power. She needs to be sacked under section 44 (1) of the Australian Constitution as the double-agent of a foreign power. The fact that Scott Morrison continues to protect her shows how utterly corrupt they are and bereft of any loyalty to Australian people.
"The Australian." May as well read one of those conspiracy magazines, such as Fortean Times, that seem to populate the magazine shelves these days that propogate far out conspiracies. The Murdoch press has become increasingly shrill about the Labor party recently. Must be worried about ScoMo losing his one seat majority.
That makes no sense whatsoever, why would the Murdoch press be reporting on the movements of double-agent Gladys Liu if they were trying to help the Morrison government maintain its one-seat majority? Isn't that going to have the exact opposite effect that you're saying and cause Labor to come to the helm?

I'm sorry to say that Aunty has been totally lost to the leftist minority cause whirlpool... they're almost totally uncritical of things that they should be calling out like this. I have mentioned before that I have stalwart Labor Party lifelong friends of your generation who handed out "how-to-vote" cards for Whitlam all the way through to Keating and even they told me that the ABC was too bias and uncritical towards the Shorten team.
don_dunstan
Simple, she is Chinese and they hate the Chinese.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Well the Anarcho-Marxist nutters keep shooting themselves in the foot by their violent protests. That was only going to escalate the war of words with Sco-mo.

Incidentally, aren't boycotts usually non-violent?
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Well the Anarcho-Marxist nutters keep shooting themselves in the foot by their violent protests. That was only going to escalate the war of words with Sco-mo.

Incidentally, aren't boycotts usually non-violent?
Carnot

Still, its a Crackdown on 'Freedom of speech' that the coalition raves on about protecting constantly is something to be worried about. The Raids by the AFP on the ABC and Murdoch then this?  I Don't like at all where this is going, morphing into the 'most repressive' democracy in the west...

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