Suburban Rail Loop (Election promise)

 
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Here's a spicy take on the topic. Discuss.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg7exp3gIA0

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  Dissonance Station Staff

Article in The Age about station locations in the Suburban Rail Loop and their lack of easy interchange with other transport modes and local amenities.

I think I agree with the author, seems the location of the Monash station is really illogical - and should be built on Wellington Road where there is an interchange with all  the buses, whereas Normandy Road is a substantial distance away from most of the campus.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/fears-of-maze-like-suburban-loop-stations-lacking-links-to-trains-and-unis-20210810-p58hj9.html
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
......
I think I agree with the author, seems the location of the Monash station is really illogical - and should be built on Wellington Road where there is an interchange with all  the buses, whereas Normandy Road is a substantial distance away from most of the campus.
Dissonance
a rather biased view of the location.

Since the SRL is being designed by engineers, it is only fitting that the station is closest to the Faculty of Engineering, Laughing and CSIRO
wheras Arts students need the excercise.Laughing and learn the campus does extend beyond the dining hall.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Here's a spicy take on the topic. Discuss.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg7exp3gIA0
Dangersdan707
I wholeheartedly agree with the creator. Even though he's not from Melbourne, he still makes some very valid points about Melbourne transit priorities.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Monash students should be lucky the SRL even goes there! Box Hill would also like a word regarding close-proximity train, bus and tram connections. Smile
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Monash students should be lucky the SRL even goes there! Box Hill would also like a word regarding close-proximity train, bus and tram connections. Smile
Heihachi_73
WOT.???

The entrances to Box Hill station are
1. Whitehorse Rd, north side, about Chemist Warehouse
2. Market St, just outside the entrance to BoxHill Central.

That IS in the centre of all the transport modes.
Its the same 800m walk the Tafe is now. Boo Hoo.

We can only hope there is a direct connect to the train platforms.
Too early to tell that fine detail. Anyways, like State Library/Melbourne Central the connection is not an "entrance"

It's all here. Warning the fancy webby/video thing is CRAP NAVIGATION.
https://consultationspace.com/SRL/

cheers
John
  8502 Chief Train Controller

Monash students should be lucky the SRL even goes there! Box Hill would also like a word regarding close-proximity train, bus and tram connections. Smile
Heihachi_73

Why would MOnash Uni not want to have the station linked to such a large campus the same way Melbourne Uni will have a station called Parkville?  

I really think this is a shocking decision and design not to have a station under the uni or in close proximity.
  tayser Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Posted without comment.



edit: click the tweet to see the follow up

"State Govt has been in touch to say the SRL stations will all have paid-area interchange with existing Metro stations. No need to exit to street to change trains.
Obviously it will still be important to make connections as quick/short as possible, but this is good news."
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Monash students should be lucky the SRL even goes there! Box Hill would also like a word regarding close-proximity train, bus and tram connections. Smile

Why would MOnash Uni not want to have the station linked to such a large campus the same way Melbourne Uni will have a station called Parkville?  

I really think this is a shocking decision and design not to have a station under the uni or in close proximity.
8502
"large campus" says it all. Its twice the size of Melb Uni, and chock block full with 100+  buildings.

A mini city, with pleasant pedestrian connections.

There is no room for a monster hole in the middle, let alone access for continuos heavy constuction vehicles.

It is notable that new construction in the campus over the last decade or two has been at the outer fringes only.
Good reasons for that.
The place is chock a block with people moving about (pre Covid anyways), that will always be badly blocked by a construction site, no matter where it is.

Melb Uni (Parkville) was easy in comparison. Close off Gattan St, dig, cover, pedestrian mall : QED. Construction staging off site.
Monash Uni equivalent would be dig up Wellington Rd. Not happening!!

cheers
John
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
They'll run out of money before it gets completed anyway - and he had an incredibly valid point in that video about cut and cover being ignored. Should have ran the route directly under major roads using cut and cover, would have reduced the cost to a fraction of the (very under-costed) $50 billion.

Victoria has been on a prosperity tear due to exploding stamp duty receipts for the last two decades - the money will run out soon.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Well looky here, the business case has been released:
https://suburbanrailloop.vic.gov.au/Library/BusinessandInvestmentCase

Lots of stuff being dumped on the Interwebs today by the State Govt...
  Jordy33 Locomotive Fireman

Ok some interesting news via Jacinta Allan’s Facebook. https://fb.watch/7tA7qCCOBF/
SRL East (Cheltenham-Box Hill) will be operating by 2035. 24,000 jobs over the project. It seems it will initially operate with a train every 6 minutes with an ultimate frequency of every 2 minutes. Ultimately in my opinion, we should be aiming for a 2030 completion on SRL East.
  Jordy33 Locomotive Fireman

Ok I collected some key points quickly:
$58.7B Economic benefits
24,000 jobs
Automated 4 car medium capacity trains
SRL will create mini cities around each station
2035 - SRL East complete
2043/2053 - SRL North complete
BCR ranges between 1.1 and 1.7
SRL East cost range - $30B-34.5B
165,000 additional jobs in station precincts (1600m radius around stations)
  chomper Junior Train Controller

Looking at the business case documents, they basically talked themselves out of building it. Whoever it was (singular or group) that crunched the numbers for the business case needs to be shot on site.

$58.7 billion of economic benefits on a construction cost of at least $70 billion for SRL East and North.

That's what you get when you're paying traffic controllers $150k/year and paying $500 for a bolt...
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Ok I collected some key points quickly:
$58.7B Economic benefits
24,000 jobs
Automated 4 car medium capacity trains
SRL will create mini cities around each station
2035 - SRL East complete
2043/2053 - SRL North complete
BCR ranges between 1.1 and 1.7
SRL East cost range - $30B-34.5B
165,000 additional jobs in station precincts (1600m radius around stations)
Jordy33
165,000 additional jobs in station precincts (1600m radius around stations)

Says who? Just upgrade the bus network man. $70 Billion my kids, grandkids and great grandkids will still be paying for this folly.



Michael
  chomper Junior Train Controller

Ok I collected some key points quickly:
$58.7B Economic benefits
24,000 jobs
Automated 4 car medium capacity trains
SRL will create mini cities around each station
2035 - SRL East complete
2043/2053 - SRL North complete
BCR ranges between 1.1 and 1.7
SRL East cost range - $30B-34.5B
165,000 additional jobs in station precincts (1600m radius around stations)
165,000 additional jobs in station precincts (1600m radius around stations)

Says who? Just upgrade the bus network man. $70 Billion my kids, grandkids and great grandkids will still be paying for this folly.



Michael
mejhammers1

If it was done right, costed properly and funded without taking everything from the future, it would be a massive benefit. As it stands, it will be an absolute cluster... The idea of an orbital line is sound, bordering on necessary, but this...

The fact that they have effectively completely ignored the western side of the metropolis doesn't do them any favours and further dismantles what little credibility they had.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Some interesting nuggets (especially of the northern section) I found in the business case:
  • Northern section will be completed between 2043 and 2053
  • Potential for a station in the Gladstone Park/Niddrie/Airport West area
  • There will be another stabling facility between Broadmeadows and the Airport
  • Of the options considered for Clayton station, the one picked has the worst connectivity outcomes
  • Ticketing will be the same as the rest of the network
  • Trains will be 4-car "medium capacity trains". They will feature longitudinal seating (finally!)
  • The "Fawkner" station will actually be in Gowrie, Campbellfield or Batman. I think Gowrie is the preferred option at this stage.
  • Designed for speeds of 100km/h. Trains will have superior acceleration and breaking.
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
  • Of the options considered for Clayton station, the one picked has the worst connectivity outcomes
reubstar6
Agreed, but I also understand why they picked that spot. If they build access tunnels correctly, then the walking distance isn't too bad. The problem I see is that they fail to include a direct link to Clayton Station:

It is intended that two station entrances will be provided, with one located east of Clayton Road in Remembrance Gardens, and the second west of Clayton Road under the existing rail viaduct
Appendix B2

The second entrance tunnel really should branch and emerge not only in the western carpark at Haughton Rd, but also on the eastern side of Clayton Road to provide direct access to the station. It would be utterly stupid to not build a direct link to Clayton Station and the new bus interchange.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
  • Of the options considered for Clayton station, the one picked has the worst connectivity outcomes
Agreed, but I also understand why they picked that spot. If they build access tunnels correctly, then the walking distance isn't too bad. The problem I see is that they fail to include a direct link to Clayton Station:

It is intended that two station entrances will be provided, with one located east of Clayton Road in Remembrance Gardens, and the second west of Clayton Road under the existing rail viaduct

The second entrance tunnel really should branch and emerge not only in the western carpark at Haughton Rd, but also on the eastern side of Clayton Road to provide direct access to the station. It would be utterly stupid to not build a direct link to Clayton Station and the new bus interchange.
TheMeddlingMonk
And to repeat @tayser from above
"State Govt has been in touch to say the SRL stations will all have paid-area interchange with existing Metro stations. No need to exit to street to change trains."

Interchanges are not "entrances", just a neccessary and promised extra.

cheers
John
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
And to repeat @tayser from above
"State Govt has been in touch to say the SRL stations will all have paid-area interchange with existing Metro stations. No need to exit to street to change trains."

Interchanges are not "entrances", just a neccessary and promised extra.

cheers
John
justarider
Thanks John. The documents could be clearer about that, otherwise it looks like the connectivity is woefully inadequate!
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Thanks John. The documents could be clearer about that, otherwise it looks like the connectivity is woefully inadequate!
"clarity". .???

Just like 10,000 words to say, "door is here, here and here" and "the cost will be $xxxx"  ( I still can't work that out)
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Some interesting nuggets (especially of the northern section) I found in the business case:
  • Northern section will be completed between 2043 and 2053
reubstar6
For those wondering why the date difference between option A and option B.

It's the same design, just difference between when the big pot of money can be put together. And maybe the unsaid "cant find enough builders".
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Here's a spicy take on the topic. Discuss.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg7exp3gIA0
I wholeheartedly agree with the creator. Even though he's not from Melbourne, he still makes some very valid points about Melbourne transit priorities.
railblogger
I don't mind some of this guys videos, but looking at a map and reading a few articles docent not make you an expert on a cities local transport network, its pressures and how its commuters use it.

As has been said before, this isn't a transport project, and he is right in saying that there is currently no demand. Of course there isn't, we don't have any orbital transport network. One only has to look to the Western Ring Road and inner suburban major roads to see that there are hundreds of thousands of cars traveling across the city.

This is much the same with Transport orientated development (The photo of East Richmond for heavens sake!) it works when a corridors has access to many different services not just a high-rise and a shopping centre. If every major trunk link had a uni, a hospital, employment percents and retail zones, it might work. Even then you are assuming that people will work, shop or study and on that line. Doubtful.  

This type of development works better at major hubs where multiple lines converge, allowing the greatest access via a transport network. Something that Melbourne does not have. Closest would be places like North Melbourne, South Yarra and Richmond. All of which are dominated by residential buildings not the services or employment that drives transit development.

Which is were SRL comes in, it is not and never has been a transport project. Which is hard for some of these bloggers as it involves a train. This is about creating major suburban centres that are connected to the services people want and use daily. Not every station has everything, but you can hop to the next station in a few minutes. This effectively brings those employment and education centres in easy reach of hundreds of thousands of people.

It will change the face of Melbournes suburbs from wasteland to mini cities.

As for the blogger, he has made some comments regarding MM1 in a previous vlog that showed he had no great understanding of Melbourne's transit system. These were comments around 'he couldn't understand why the government was building MM1 when the inner core has good frequencies'. MM1 is about boosting capacity across the entire line, not just a few inner city stations, its great North Melbourne has trains every few minutes during the peak, I'm sure Sunshine and Dandenong would like that too.

Lastly, RE Monash. The station as has been said by planners is located for the future. Warehouses are cheaper to buy and redevelopment. That prime uni land that, I'm sure Monash will charge a bomb for. The uni just needs to relocate its bus interchange and problem is solved.

Now, time to read a business case.

Lockie
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
Lastly, RE Monash. The station as has been said by planners is located for the future. Warehouses are cheaper to buy and redevelopment that prime uni land that I'm sure Monash will charge a bomb for. The uni just needs to relocate its bus interchange and problem is solved.

Now, time to read a business case.

Lockie
Lockie91
I agree. The moment I saw the proposed station location I thought that all Monash will do is shift the bus interchange. They're already redeveloping towards that corner of the university anyway, so it gives them a chance to factor the SRL into one of the less-developed sections of the campus.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

I don't think the Bus Loop at Monash will move, nor does it need to.

We still don't know anything about the Rowville Tram, but my guess would be that it goes along FTG rd to the SRL station, then through the uni to Wellington Rd, connecting both sides of the campus. Yes you can walk from the SRL to the Menzies building, but not everyone is able to, a tram would be a great way of linking the two.

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