2019 Federal Election Thread

 
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Don
If Australia workers want pay rises then they need to deliver more for the same cost to improve their competitiveness. Australia's productivity index has been in decline for a few years.

Dont blame Hawke/Keating for removing the power of the unions, they did what needed to be done. Excessive unionism, strikes over minor or often no issues, the xmas break fuel strikes had to stop. It was the cause for much of the loss of industry.

Today, what do you expect the unions do? if a company is not making a sustainable profit then a pay rise wont help their longterm enjoyment.  This narrow minded approach has seen many a company close.

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  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Excessive unionism, strikes over minor or often no issues, the xmas break fuel strikes had to stop. It was the cause for much of the loss of industry.
RTT_Rules
This certainly is a major cause of the decline of the once huge meat export industry in this country. I know, I was there and witnessed it first hand! Any excuse to walk out even before starting on a Friday or the day before a long weekend, especially when the fishing was good.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Excessive unionism, strikes over minor or often no issues, the xmas break fuel strikes had to stop. It was the cause for much of the loss of industry.
This certainly is a major cause of the decline of the once huge meat export industry in this country. I know, I was there and witnessed it first hand! Any excuse to walk out even before starting on a Friday or the day before a long weekend, especially when the fishing was good.
Graham4405
An old friend was the HR Superintendent at Renison Tin in Tas during late 80's early 90's. The tin price was good for years so it helped fuel "pay them what ever to go back to work" attitude. This included parties provided by the company to celebrate a milestone then a strike the next day due to hang overs, or strike if the sun was out to go fishing. Some older people here may remember the final straw was a company lock out and come back to work on half pay dispute that went on for weeks around 1989.

The unions were obviously greedy, but the Management was also half the problem in allowing things to get out of control.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Don
If Australia workers want pay rises then they need to deliver more for the same cost to improve their competitiveness. Australia's productivity index has been in decline for a few years.

Dont blame Hawke/Keating for removing the power of the unions, they did what needed to be done. Excessive unionism, strikes over minor or often no issues, the xmas break fuel strikes had to stop. It was the cause for much of the loss of industry.

Today, what do you expect the unions do? if a company is not making a sustainable profit then a pay rise wont help their longterm enjoyment.  This narrow minded approach has seen many a company close.
RTT_Rules

And fair enough too.

And when Kellogs or Cabury's or Unilever put up the price of their products then I want to see more for my money not less  Razz
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
There wasn't a correlation with housing prices going up, but now there is magically one with them going down.
It's not magic, it's reality catching up to the residential property market. The Banking Royal Commission forced the banks to employ tougher lending standards at the same time as wages have not moved for several years - as I said earlier look at the runaway success of things like AfterPay if you want an indicated of how tapped out people are, people living on their credit cards to get by. Declining living standards eventually forced the easy money in residential property to start evaporating - see how fake the neo-Thatcherite 'prosperity' we've been enjoying in the last thirty years really is. All built on nothing.
don_dunstan
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-15/negative-equity-graph/11002306

Ironically % wise there are more properties in SA that are in negative equity than NSW or Vic.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
The seat of Higgins is heating up with a 3 way race between the libs the alp and the greens. Once liberal heartland it could also be over for the libs too.
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

That's not the only thing heating up...

Lots of questions for the PM this morning about the Murray Darling water buyback "scheme" from ABC News Breakfast

There is also an interesting interview on RN by Patricia Karvelas.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

That's not the only thing heating up...

Lots of questions for the PM this morning about the Murray Darling water buyback "scheme" from ABC News Breakfast

There is also an interesting interview on RN by Patricia Karvelas.
ANR
Appears Barnaby may have questions to answer, Again. So might Angus Taylor. But, nothing to see here.

And for those engaged in union bashing, some warranted, some not.
Did you work over Easter, and collect penalty rates?
If not, how was your paid public holidays?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Dont blame Hawke/Keating for removing the power of the unions, they did what needed to be done.
RTT_Rules
SO did they shaft the unions or not? You seem to be saying that they did but they didn't.
Excessive unionism, strikes over minor or often no issues, the xmas break fuel strikes had to stop. It was the cause for much of the loss of industry.
RTT_Rules
NO - so-called 'free trade' agreements are to blame. Who in their right mind would keep making things in Australia with the highest electricity charges in the world where you're forced to pay a proper living wage when you can move to a country where the workers are $1 an hour? It's a no-brainer.
Today, what do you expect the unions do? if a company is not making a sustainable profit then a pay rise wont help their longterm enjoyment. This narrow minded approach has seen many a company close.
RTT_Rules
What the blazes are you talking about - the last 20 years has been absolutely BOOM times for corporate Australia, record profits all round especially banking and financial institutions, as discussed before there's no business on earth more profitable than Australia's Big Four Banks - they are the most profitable institutions per capita on the the planet.

Profits as a share of GDP have been on an ever-increasing trajectory while wages have been shrinking as discussed further in this Business Insider article - so please don't go in to bat for the poor, poor big companies of Australia - they're doing just fine thanks very much.

You'll find out all about how disadvantaged and underpaid workers are when you move back here I'm sure. Only when you're scraping around trying desperately to look for work to sustain yourself and your family will you realise just how much the balance has shifted to corporations and businesses and just how bad average Aussie living standards have fallen.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Dont blame Hawke/Keating for removing the power of the unions, they did what needed to be done.
SO did they shaft the unions or not? You seem to be saying that they did but they didn't.
Excessive unionism, strikes over minor or often no issues, the xmas break fuel strikes had to stop. It was the cause for much of the loss of industry.
NO - so-called 'free trade' agreements are to blame. Who in their right mind would keep making things in Australia with the highest electricity charges in the world where you're forced to pay a proper living wage when you can move to a country where the workers are $1 an hour? It's a no-brainer.
Today, what do you expect the unions do? if a company is not making a sustainable profit then a pay rise wont help their longterm enjoyment. This narrow minded approach has seen many a company close.
What the blazes are you talking about - the last 20 years has been absolutely BOOM times for corporate Australia, record profits all round especially banking and financial institutions, as discussed before there's no business on earth more profitable than Australia's Big Four Banks - they are the most profitable institutions per capita on the the planet.

Profits as a share of GDP have been on an ever-increasing trajectory while wages have been shrinking as discussed further in this Business Insider article - so please don't go in to bat for the poor, poor big companies of Australia - they're doing just fine thanks very much.

You'll find out all about how disadvantaged and underpaid workers are when you move back here I'm sure. Only when you're scraping around trying desperately to look for work to sustain yourself and your family will you realise just how much the balance has shifted to corporations and businesses and just how bad average Aussie living standards have fallen.
don_dunstan
Or did they bring the end of the unions shafting the country and causing the ultimate loss of thousands of jobs to off-shore and ongoing exposure of the population to mostly unnecessary strikes that often achieved little. Don you know full well that most of the unions had to be dragged into the 21st century kicking and screaming.

Loss of industry started long before the first free trade agreements. What is the so called "proper living wage"? When you are the highest or one of the highest paid in the world for doing a job, is that "proper"? Nothing wrong with earning the big bucks, but its not a one way street, but you do need to deliver value for money, ie productive, work a reasonable amount of hours per week, not have excessive claims and benefits.

Very few heavy industry left Australia for $1/h. Very few places pay that low and provide the skills required to undertake the task to a reasonable level and poor productivity nearly always means having high numbers of people doing a job that can be done by one person in a developed economy. On construction jobs they have salary's and productivity numbers and times the two together to get the actual cost.

Boom times equaled boom salaries prior to the GFC and in Australia unlike many developed economies this continued by late 2009 for another 3-4 years. Its now payback time.

You can see how average profits have been for last 10 years in many industries as the All Ordinaries index has yet to achieve the peak in 2008. The ASX's own share price has barely exceeded its previous peak.  Don, stop BS'ing and stop wasting peoples time and actually look at the share market values!
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Or did they bring the end of the unions shafting the country and causing the ultimate loss of thousands of jobs to off-shore and ongoing exposure of the population to mostly unnecessary strikes that often achieved little. Don you know full well that most of the unions had to be dragged into the 21st century kicking and screaming.

Loss of industry started long before the first free trade agreements. What is the so called "proper living wage"? When you are the highest or one of the highest paid in the world for doing a job, is that "proper"? Nothing wrong with earning the big bucks, but its not a one way street, but you do need to deliver value for money, ie productive, work a reasonable amount of hours per week, not have excessive claims and benefits.
RTT_Rules
Loss of jobs started under Hawke/Keatings unilateral stripping of tariffs in the eighties and the wages and incomes accord.

As I said, I can't wait for you to move back here and start complaining about how we've become a low-wage, low-skill country with no opportunities for working people. You're too blinded by your loss of money on the ASX (too bad, so sad). But ordinary Aussies are doing it tough, come back here and find out for yourself...
Boom times equaled boom salaries prior to the GFC and in Australia unlike many developed economies this continued by late 2009 for another 3-4 years. Its now payback time. You can see how average profits have been for last 10 years in many industries as the All Ordinaries index has yet to achieve the peak in 2008. The ASX's own share price has barely exceeded its previous peak. Don, stop BS'ing and stop wasting peoples time and actually look at the share market values!
RTT_Rules
Boo hoo, the ASX is back to where it was ten years ago. Cry me a river.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Never fear Don, RTT will eventually become a victim of the polices he champions.

People hit hardest by the GFC and subsequent ASX performance were greedy and/or careless.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Michael, if Shane/RTT is looking for reasons why this nation isn't prospering then he should blame the extremely poor management of this nation's economy by the respective governments that made speculating on real-estate (and selling residency) the only game in town at the expense of actual productive activity. And now that has gone to seed there's no other drivers of prosperity so our living standards continue to plummet while the cost of living is rising. It's not the fault of the average worker, it's the fault of the greedy mercantilism and neo-liberal economics we've been subjected to for 35 years - our chooks are coming home to roost.

It's gunna get even worse under Shorten et at, he has no plan to turn this thing around other than spending more money that we don't have - neither does Morrison for that matter.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
People hit hardest by the GFC and subsequent ASX performance were greedy and/or careless.
michaelgm
We have a rubbish economy built on nothing but mineral and energy exports and selling residency to whoever has $30,000 to buy it, that's the answer for your bad ASX performance. Cosy, protected cartels like banking and retail have been experiencing record profits but everything outside those cartels is in trouble.

Where are the growing, world-leading industries? Where are the generators of employment? Off-shore thanks to deliberate policy pursued since Hawke/Keating. And they're never coming back.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
That's not the only thing heating up...

Lots of questions for the PM this morning about the Murray Darling water buyback "scheme" from ABC News Breakfast

There is also an interesting interview on RN by Patricia Karvelas.
Appears Barnaby may have questions to answer, Again. So might Angus Taylor. But, nothing to see here.

And for those engaged in union bashing, some warranted, some not.
Did you work over Easter, and collect penalty rates?
If not, how was your paid public holidays?
michaelgm
That people are paid to not work a public holiday is not something to be proud of. It has never and will never make sense to me.

That said, our public holiday situation needs to be sorted out in this country. We ought not have the Easter weekend as it is when we have most of the country not believing in Easter.

I have a friend that worked Easter Sunday, the actual holiday and got paid no extra because Monday is the public holiday, yet here in SA at least, we had the shops closed on Sunday - not a public holiday, but trading on Monday, the public holiday...

It truly is senseless.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
selling residency to whoever has $30,000 to buy it
don_dunstan
It's quite substantially more than that, trust me, wifey and I are paying it, and looking to the future to bring her father here when he retires, that will make $30k look real cheap.

I was talking a few months ago to a couple from the US, they have moved here on a retirement visa (not the technical term for it) and they paid over USD320k.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
selling residency to whoever has $30,000 to buy it
It's quite substantially more than that, trust me, wifey and I are paying it, and looking to the future to bring her father here when he retires, that will make $30k look real cheap.

I was talking a few months ago to a couple from the US, they have moved here on a retirement visa (not the technical term for it) and they paid over USD320k.
Aaron
Parental visas SHOULD cost a fortune, the Productivity Commission estimated $400,000 or so in Medicare, Centrelink etc will be consumed by each and every elderly resident.

We're not some kind of international charity.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Parental visas SHOULD cost a fortune, the Productivity Commission estimated $400,000 or so in Medicare, Centrelink etc will be consumed by each and every elderly resident.

We're not some kind of international charity.
"don_dunstan"

Relax, Don; we'll only let the rich ones in.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Don,
If you are again trying to go personal be ause your argument is as weak as pi$$ then your an idiot.

No I did not lose money during the GFC, cannot lose what you dont have. However we all lost in our SUPER as they all went negative so cheering someone's supposed loss that you have no idea about while knowing your own Super went backwards is an act of stupidity.

So far everyone friend or acquaintance who has relocated to Oz or migrated to Oz that I know of us doing well for themselves. So I'm not concerned nor do I intend to be when the time comes. The country still offers opportunity for those willing to get off their smeg and try.

Failure to understand the sheer basics that if company share prices dont go up, then they are not making more money and hence profit is demonstrating you are in no position to comment on such matters. So suggest you stop now before you embarrass yourself further.

You have been told many a time by others wage stagnation is a global issue for which Australua cannot hide, but doesn't suit your agenda.

Opening up Australias trade strengthen the economy. Hiding behind tariffs that protect fat inefficient industry and govt sector doesn't do anyone favors longterm as the working class are exposed to higher costs. The fact that 30 years later our unemployment is similar to better is proof enough.

Yes I do support reciprocal tariffs.

Yes I didn't support the govts slow action to limit the property market price creep.

The union movement is not totally to blame for the extragences of the past, weak govt and management allowed it. But went your back is against the wall trying to save a business or industry the unions often bring nothing to the table.

The recent penalty rates fiasco showed how screwed up the system is as it's based on industry rather than common sense. Ie sone get 100% others 25% loading for working the same time.

And yes I'm totally against 100% loading , it's more than over the top, un competitive and does nothing for job growth nor a fair days pay for a fair days work. Sunday is no longer a holey grail it once was nor do most of the population want to go back to the days of Sunday being closed for business.

I have no issue for the number of public holidays even if the reason is meaningless for most.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Labour now going to pump $50m into the Maldon Domarton rail link. https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/labor-commits-50m-to-maldondombarton
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Don,
If you are again trying to go personal be ause your argument is as weak as pi$$ then your an idiot.

No I did not lose money during the GFC, cannot lose what you dont have. However we all lost in our SUPER as they all went negative so cheering someone's supposed loss that you have no idea about while knowing your own Super went backwards is an act of stupidity.

So far everyone friend or acquaintance who has relocated to Oz or migrated to Oz that I know of us doing well for themselves. So I'm not concerned nor do I intend to be when the time comes. The country still offers opportunity for those willing to get off their smeg and try.

Failure to understand the sheer basics that if company share prices dont go up, then they are not making more money and hence profit is demonstrating you are in no position to comment on such matters. So suggest you stop now before you embarrass yourself further.
RTT_Rules
I'm not personally attacking you, I'm just pointing out that the ASX is dangerous place in an uncertain world and really - think of this - it's probably an accurate reflection of just how anaemic and weak our underlying economy actually is. So you lost money on the ASX - boo hoo - so have I! I got badly burnt with a few things I put money into prior to 2009 but I don't spend my time crying about how unfair life is.

And what does this chart I reference earlier actually show you? It showed you that corporate profits are a much larger percentage of Aussie GDP than wages - and that the successful growth in profits was was almost completely unbroken for 20 years. What does that tell you about Aussie business but that they're doing better than ever while the cost of labour has fallen. They never had it so good but you're still whinging about the ASX? Grow a brain, the profits have been privatised OR off-shored and they're not flowing through to the ASX.
You have been told many a time by others wage stagnation is a global issue for which Australua cannot hide, but doesn't suit your agenda. Opening up Australias trade strengthen the economy. Hiding behind tariffs that protect fat inefficient industry and govt sector doesn't do anyone favors longterm as the working class are exposed to higher costs. The fact that 30 years later our unemployment is similar to better is proof enough.
RTT_Rules
But then this runs completely contrary to your argument that the ASX is in bad shape therefore corporate Australia is. If abolishing tariffs, free-trade agreements and deregulated labour is so wonderful for our economy then why is it in such bad shape?
Yes I do support reciprocal tariffs.
RTT_Rules
Not realistic - I think the so-called FTA's were used to selectively kill off labour intensive Aussie industries. On purpose. Again I blame Keating - the Button Report used to completely eliminate mass manufacturing from our shores, the Dawkins report used to make universities into cash machines on the back of a mass migration program never announced to the public.

These people never, ever do what they say they're going to do, Shane, haven't you worked that one out yet? Dawkins himself caught red-handed over-charging the government for privatised education decades later - these people live out their whole lives devoted to shafting the people who elected them.

We probably deserve everything we get as long as we keep electing them.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Don, the productivity commission are wrong, those on retiree visas do not qualify for Centrelink.

If they do qualify for a payment, the government should let people keep their USD320k then they’d be deemed to have too much money and not get a payment anyway...
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Don, the productivity commission are wrong, those on retiree visas do not qualify for Centrelink.

If they do qualify for a payment, the government should let people keep their USD320k then they’d be deemed to have too much money and not get a payment anyway...
Aaron
Aaron, I'm thinking of the parental visas where after a qualifying period there's a full entitlement to Centrelink and Medicare; I think the one you're referring to is a different one where the retiree must fund everything themselves including private health insurance.

When I was working in welfare services in Melbourne I frequently had people dumping their elderly parents in our foyer and leaving them there once their Centrelink/Medicare entitlement came up. They bring their parents out to help raise their kids and as soon as they get full entitlements they kick them out of home, it was actually quite a distressing thing to see.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
7 runners for Bendigo

  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
7 runners for Bendigo

bevans
12 in the running for Mildura.   Considering the Nationals won last time around with about 67% primary vote, don't think it will be as one-sided this time.

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