Armed teens descend on train station where mates were bashed by 30 youths

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 04 Feb 2019 15:25
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Is it me or are we still suffering from crime from African Gangs around the city?   The attack was brazen and happened in front of two PSO's

Should the PSO's have intervened and assisted the youths?

Armed teens descend on train station where mates were bashed by 30 youths

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  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Protected species, can't do a thing about it.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Protected species, can't do a thing about it.
Heihachi_73

Who is protected the PSO's or the African gangs?
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
This was an African gang. Why aren't the nationalities of other gangs published? There have been plenty of Middle Eastern and South East Asian mobs and a few Pacific Islanders round for some time.
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
This happened over a week ago, it's not even current news.

The alleged offender has been arrested and is due to face court.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This happened over a week ago, it's not even current news.

The alleged offender has been arrested and is due to face court.
SamTheMan79

Yes but the issue still remains, have we got a problem with African Gangs on the Network?
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
This happened over a week ago, it's not even current news.

The alleged offender has been arrested and is due to face court.

Yes but the issue still remains, have we got a problem with African Gangs on the Network?
bevans
That's a question that you should direct to the relevant Government Minister rather than the RP forum members.
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
That's like digging up an article from last week and asking whether Trump will still get the wall built.

C'mon Brian, you're better than that...
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

NEWSFLASH - Broady Boys terrorize passengers at Glenroy with baseball bats on Harris Electric Train  (Herald, circa 1978)
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
That's like digging up an article from last week and asking whether Trump will still get the wall built.

C'mon Brian, you're better than that...
SamTheMan79

STM we have not really discussed the crime on the network at any length and I think the issue for me is why the PSO's did not react.  It is a little different than we normally tackle.

The Media has discussed a lot about the African Gangs and home invasions but I have not read about the gang violence spilling onto the rail network.
  Madjikthise Assistant Commissioner

The question I'd like to ask police is, what can I do to stop these people bashing me and my family, and stealing whatever they want from my home? And no, "doing what they ask and giving them whatever they want because we'll catch them later" is not an acceptable answer.
  Lockie91 Train Controller

@bevans

Is there a problem NO

switch of channel 7 and put down the herald sun.

We have never had any problem with African gangs. Crime stats show that people from African heritage account for less than 2% of crime committed in Victoria. No prizes for the winner.

This is Railpage Australia™ not racist page, post like this have no basis and are not needed. We always demand facts and figures when presenting an argument on a new line or station, this is no different.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The question I'd like to ask police is, what can I do to stop these people bashing me and my family, and stealing whatever they want from my home? And no, "doing what they ask and giving them whatever they want because we'll catch them later" is not an acceptable answer.
Madjikthise

You need to stop getting brainwashed by tabloid media and get on with your life...but you won't because you are addicted to the next tabloid headline.

Watch Media Watch on Monday nights and see the real picture.

Mike.
  ADB Locomotive Fireman

@bevans

Is there a problem NO

switch of channel 7 and put down the herald sun.

We have never had any problem with African gangs. Crime stats show that people from African heritage account for less than 2% of crime committed in Victoria. No prizes for the winner.

This is Railpage Australia™ not racist page, post like this have no basis and are not needed. We always demand facts and figures when presenting an argument on a new line or station, this is no different.
Lockie91
Hmmm, and what percentage of the Victorian population is African, do you think? Substantially less than 2% in fact, which would make the amount of African crime disproportionate. Not to mention the fact that a lot of the inter-African (Somali v Sudanese) crime may well go unreported, as neither parties often want to involve police.

But by all means, keep up the politically correct virtue-signalling.
  ADB Locomotive Fireman

The question I'd like to ask police is, what can I do to stop these people bashing me and my family, and stealing whatever they want from my home? And no, "doing what they ask and giving them whatever they want because we'll catch them later" is not an acceptable answer.

You need to stop getting brainwashed by tabloid media and get on with your life...but you won't because you are addicted to the next tabloid headline.

Watch Media Watch on Monday nights and see the real picture.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Just out of curiosity, what is the African population of Ballan these days?
  ed31880 Train Controller

Do I smell a sock puppet?
  skitz Chief Commissioner

@bevans

Is there a problem NO

switch of channel 7 and put down the herald sun.

We have never had any problem with African gangs. Crime stats show that people from African heritage account for less than 2% of crime committed in Victoria. No prizes for the winner.

This is Railpage Australia™ not racist page, post like this have no basis and are not needed. We always demand facts and figures when presenting an argument on a new line or station, this is no different.
Lockie91
A foolish statement.  Yet their population makes up what % of the population?    It's clear and been shown they are over represented in statistics. Or do you rely on the ABC for your objectiveness?

The denial of issues on the basis of identity politics is ridiculous.

The same can be said for issue with aboriginal crime, sexual abuse and domestic violence.  No one is prepared to take on the issue regarding BEHAVIOURS of their community in fear of being call racist and taking on the issue with the industry that is the money train directed that way.

Watch all the lefties come out on attack now.  Rolling Eyes

Take the issues for what they are and be fearless in dealing with the behaviours that are unacceptable to society.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

What happened at Wyndham Vale was appalling and unacceptable and you do not need to know the race of the offenders to know that.

https://www.theage.com.au/melbourne-news/are-sudanese-people-over-represented-in-victoria-s-crime-statistics-20180904-p501qx.html

The above is a superbly rational analysis from The Age of the statistics available. It summarises them as follows:

So are Sudanese people over-represented in Victoria’s crime statistics? If someone breaks into your house or steals your car the likelihood of them being Sudanese-born is very low. But relative to their portion of the population, Sudanese-born Victorians have a rate of offending which far exceeds that of the general community.
Craig Butt


So, do we have an African crime problem? From a policing point of view, not really: if 99%+ of crime is being committed by people from non-African backgrounds, it’s nonsenical to concentrate police resources on that minority. But from a broader community safety point of view, if a group is over-represented in crime statistics, of course we should be asking why, and looking for the root causes to address them.

Returning to Wyndham Vale, anyone who would confront 20 youths (as has been alleged) with their partner and a service pistol is a braver man than I, Gunga-Din. In my view the PSOs made a justifiable decision that putting themselves in serious danger was less useful than being able to observe and report the offenders in detail.

However, I would be equally frustrated if I had been the one mugged and the PSOs has not immediately rendered assistance. I’m really not sure what the best solution would have been to this specific incident.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Some perspective on the problem........

According to Victorians Crime Statistic Agency, 1% of assaults and like are conducted by some one of Sudanese origin, BUT 90% of assaults will be by white australians so one is 90 times more likley to be assaulted by a white australian. WHY ARE WE THEN being so upset by a hand full of sudanese assaults. Why are we apparently more tolerant of assaults by white aussee's. Racial prejudice is alive and well.



woodford
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Are those statistics for gang related or individual violence?
  hbedriver Chief Train Controller

Speaking as an assault victim. The “person” who assaulted me was Anglo-Saxon. The people who came to my aid were “coloured”.

One of my sons was assaulted a few years back, by an Anglo-Saxon.

So, in my family, 2 assault victims, both by white guys. 100% of assisting by non-whites. I have absolutely no problems with any races. Only the xenophobia of some, particularly certain cheap and nasty media.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Are those statistics for gang related or individual violence?
x31
Police don't charge the 'gang', they charge the individuals - so if there are 10 involved, its 10 charges, not 1.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
So are Sudanese people over-represented in Victoria’s crime statistics? If someone breaks into your house or steals your car the likelihood of them being Sudanese-born is very low. But relative to their portion of the population, Sudanese-born Victorians have a rate of offending which far exceeds that of the general community.

So, do we have an African crime problem? From a policing point of view, not really: if 99%+ of crime is being committed by people from non-African backgrounds, it’s nonsenical to concentrate police resources on that minority. But from a broader community safety point of view, if a group is over-represented in crime statistics, of course we should be asking why, and looking for the root causes to address them.
potatoinmymouth
Very well said PIMM. While their is a lot of dog whistling going on over this issue the facts as above seem to be conveniently ignored by many people who seem to think that the issue should not even be discussed.

African youth are over represented in the crime stats. Those figures are muddied even more by the fact that the figure used is usually as a % of "insert country here" born people which completely ignores the additional crime being committed by those in the "insert country here" diaspora who were born here. Victoria Police chief commissioner Graham Ashton has said the African crime problem involved “mostly people born here”.

Also muddying the waters is that many of the offenders are young and young people tend to be over represented in the crime figures as a group regardless of background.

Ignoring the issue and brushing it under the carpet is to invite trouble. The fact is that Australia chose to take immigrants from war torn countries where many people have never known stable government, the rule of law etc so when things get tough for them they simply revert to what they know. This problem needs to be addressed sooner rather than later through education, training and opportunity.

And it is not a "handful" of people or incidents, saying that is extremely disingenuous. Deliberately understating the problem is just as bad as deliberately overstating it.

BG
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

We always demand facts and figures when presenting an argument on a new line or station, ..............
Lockie91
And basic grammar.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The  crime wave in Victoria by people of African descent has been astonishing, with the latest victim a young woman who was stopped while cycling and carved up by three Africans. I have repeatedly asked of the crime-plagued Sudanese in particular: who let them in? And now we know.

Here is Amanda Vanstone, Immigration Minister in the Howard Government, in January 2007 attacking activists demanding she do more for boat people:
At a time when another major refugee crisis is unfolding in Sudan we should be trying to take a broader perspective.
The latest refugee crisis in Sudan is not the first...
Comparatively little is known of this crisis in Australia. This should be a matter of shame to some refugee advocates within Australia...
Australia has provided permanent resettlement to more than 10,000 people from southern Sudan in the past three years.
Vanstone was Immigration Minister for all that time, having taken over from Phillip Ruddock in 2003:
In 1984, when Labor held government under Bob Hawke, the intake of Sudanese refugees for resettlement was zero. During the ensuing decade just 34 Sudanese refugees were resettled in Australia. The intake jumped to 354 in 1994-95, heralding a rapidly increasing flow of Sudanese every year, rising to 6147 in 2003-2004.
Experts such as Paris Aristotle from the Victorian Foundation for Survivors of Torture say the influx was prompted in part by requests from the UNHCR for Australia to give priority to Africa in refugee resettlement quotas because of the 1994 genocide in Rwanda and the long-running civil war in Sudan...
In Australia, Sudanese-born humanitarian entrants have topped the offshore grants list every year since 2003.
But in 2007 a new Immigration Minister realised a disaster was in the making:
Kevin Andrews, who assumed the role of Immigration Minister on January 30 this year, has turned that sentiment on its head. Within a week of starting in the role, newspapers reported that Andrews planned to seek support from cabinet to drastically reduce the intake of Sudanese refugees because of concerns about a rising tide of Sudanese gangs and related crime.
Over the course of this year, Andrews's concerns about the alleged inability of Sudanese refugees to integrate have become more explicit, culminating on Monday when he made plain that integration was to become one of the key criteria for determining refugee resettlement quotas.
"Some groups don't seem to be settling and adjusting to the Australian way of life as quickly as we would hope, and therefore it makes sense to ... slow down the rate of intake from countries such as Sudan," he said.
Naturally, moral grand-standers of the Left refused to believe there was a problem:
New England independent MP Tony Windsor is not convinced the latest debate does not have an electoral purpose..
"Philip Ruddock for years, when the boatpeople situation was on, used to say, 'We've got to look after the Africans'.
"They seem to have settled in quite well... Kevin Andrews has got a bit of explaining to do, otherwise people will quite rightly say he's playing the race card."
Victoria Police in 2007 spread false information:
But worst was the reaction of Victoria Police, led by Labor-appointed Christine Nixon.
Nixon claimed Andrews was wrong about Sudanese crime rates: “They’re not, in a sense, represented more than the proportion of them in the population.”
A police multicultural liaison officer agreed: “There’s an under-representation of the Sudanese in crime stats.”
Those police claims were false. Figures let slip by Nixon the following year revealed crime rates for Sudanese youth at least four times the state average.
Labor smeared Andrews:
“It has been a long time since I have heard such a pure form of racism out of the mouth of any Australian politician,” sneered Queensland premier Anna Bligh.
The media vilified Andrews, rather than the Immigration Ministers who had put Australians in danger - Vanstone and Ruddock:
The Age accused Andrews of making “unpleasant and inflammatory” comments to provoke “a predictably base reaction from those sensitive to immigration on racial grounds”.
Yet even in 2007, as I wrote at the time, the evidence was urgent and compelling that a grave mistake had been made:
Of course many Sudanese will make excellent contributions to this country. Of course, and of course and of course. But it's also clear that a worrying number of Sudanese immigrants - coming from a very different culture and a much poorer country with much lower standards of education - are struggling to make their way here and to integrate.
Recent signs of that include a huge brawl, worries by Sudanese parents about their uncontrollable children dropping out, concerns by teachers of a lack of " life skills", vicious assaults, and police warnings of gang violence.
A state school principal has also told me how very hard she's found it to integrate the African students in her school, given how few of them have any English or much respect for authority. What makes her challenge worse, she says, is that she has so many of them, leading then naturally to form a "gang" rather than be forced to assimilate.
We can ignore all this, as we usually, do and shout "racist" at those who point out that we have a problem. But we need to rethink just how - or even whether - we resettle immigrants whose culture is so very, very different.
Even Sudanese defenders of the Sudanese refugees back then were actually admitting that we were admitting people more likely to resort to violence:
On 3AW, a Sudanese community spokeswoman asks for understanding: The implication of this journey (as a refugee) could make people prone to be violent.
Er, OK.
And even then, in 2007, the media should have realised our refugee and immigration program - which had already let in hard-to-assimilate Lebanese Muslims - had exposed us to yet another completely needless danger:
A SUDANESE refugee who embarked on a three-day rape spree and sliced an elderly woman's throat a month after reaching Australiawill serve at least the next 17 years in jail.
Hakeem Hakeem, 21, was yesterday sentenced to 24 years' jail, with a non-parole period of 17 years, for a string of depraved sexual attacks in Melbourne's southeast in March 2005.
The Supreme Court heard that, just one month after arriving in Australia, Hakeem set out on a drug and alcohol-fuelled campaign of terror on the streets of Dandenong.
What have we done? Why don't we learn?
And a word from Vanstone and Ruddock on how they got the Sudanese intake so horribly wrong would be useful.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/who-let-in-the-sudanese-amanda-vanstone/news-story/9497646aaac16f3fdfa11673d2a12ea4

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