VLocity train order off track as fleet built too heavy

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 25 Feb 2019 08:40
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Shakes head in amazement,  Are these units a part of the new SG fleet for Albury or are they to continue to add to the BG fleet?

VLocity train order off track as fleet built too heavy

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  Carnot Chief Commissioner

This is being talked about in another thread.  Why do we need another one?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This is being talked about in another thread.  Why do we need another one?
Carnot

Link please?
  Carnot Chief Commissioner
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Here: https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11386472-s375.htm
Carnot

Discussing the Longer Distance Rollingstock project.  I understand this issue to be requiring further purchases of rolling stock for the BG network.???
  574M White Guru

Location: Shepparton
Yes, we are supposed to get 5 car Vlocity sets with buffet cars for the long hauls. Warrnambool, Ararat, Maryborough (and places North), Echuca, Shepparton, Bairnsdale.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I suppose that "lack of buffet staff" will give V/Line another excuse for bustitutions.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I suppose that "lack of buffet staff" will give V/Line another excuse for bustitutions.
Valvegear

It really has become a bottom of the barrel operation.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I suppose that "lack of buffet staff" will give V/Line another excuse for bustitutions.

It really has become a bottom of the barrel operation.
bevans

I think that was meant to be read as a joke...
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I suppose that "lack of buffet staff" will give V/Line another excuse for bustitutions.

It really has become a bottom of the barrel operation.

I think that was meant to be read as a joke...
The Vinelander

Smile
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

It may have been a joke on @Valvegear’s part but it’s a genuine article excuse that they’ve used to bustitute Shepp services. Not shut down the buffet, no, bustitute. I wish I was kidding.
  NimbleJack Station Master

Yes, we are supposed to get 5 car Vlocity sets with buffet cars for the long hauls. Warrnambool, Ararat, Maryborough (and places North), Echuca, Shepparton, Bairnsdale.
574M
Dream on.

The only buffet-equipped sets will be for the standard gauge line to Albury. Expect to see them being tested late next year.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Yes, we are supposed to get 5 car Vlocity sets with buffet cars for the long hauls. Warrnambool, Ararat, Maryborough (and places North), Echuca, Shepparton, Bairnsdale.
Dream on.

The only buffet-equipped sets will be for the standard gauge line to Albury. Expect to see them being tested late next year.
NimbleJack

Hi and Welcome Aboard

Buffet cars are provided on the current longer distance V/Line services, are we saying this will not be the case for the proposed Vlocity sets for the SG longer distance services?

Albury Services we have to wait another 2 years for the rolling stock?
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Yes, we are supposed to get 5 car Vlocity sets with buffet cars for the long hauls. Warrnambool, Ararat, Maryborough (and places North), Echuca, Shepparton, Bairnsdale.
Dream on.

The only buffet-equipped sets will be for the standard gauge line to Albury. Expect to see them being tested late next year.

Hi and Welcome Aboard

Buffet cars are provided on the current longer distance V/Line services, are we saying this will not be the case for the proposed Vlocity sets for the SG longer distance services?
bevans
I would be very surprised if existing services with buffet cars were replaced with new rolling stock sans said cars in light of the correspondence between the RTBU and the government / V/Line on the matter and the union's subsequent celebration of the win for the conductor grade that we talked about last year.

I would not however expect to see buffet cars on services like Echuca, Maryborough and Ararat which already are served by Vlocity sets without them.

BG
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Shakes head in amazement,  Are these units a part of the new SG fleet for Albury or are they to continue to add to the BG fleet?

VLocity train order off track as fleet built too heavy
bevans

Don't you love the way the article is written.

Starts with a "A technical blunder" then, quoting the govt who ordered them, but quietly not pointing the finger at the govt but easily assumed its one and same.

Then yada yada yada, discuss why it was done, then mention the Govt person who ordered got a job with Bombardier. (Should be a story on that alone).

Then right at the end when many people not interested in trains have likely switched off onto another story, "It is expected ­Bombardier will be responsible for fixing the carriages, which are not currently used on the network, and covering any additional costs"

So the real article should be "Bombardier stuffed up and currently undertaking rectification works to ensure the new trains ordered by the current Govt actually comply with the project specifications regarding max weight" .
  NimbleJack Station Master

Yes, we are supposed to get 5 car Vlocity sets with buffet cars for the long hauls. Warrnambool, Ararat, Maryborough (and places North), Echuca, Shepparton, Bairnsdale.
Dream on.

The only buffet-equipped sets will be for the standard gauge line to Albury. Expect to see them being tested late next year.

Hi and Welcome Aboard

Buffet cars are provided on the current longer distance V/Line services, are we saying this will not be the case for the proposed Vlocity sets for the SG longer distance services?

Albury Services we have to wait another 2 years for the rolling stock?
bevans
Buffet modules are expensive to instal and haemorrhage money in service. They will be appearing on the standard gauge line (six units at this stage) for political reasons, not because they make economic sense. At best, new-build broad gauge VLocity sets will get a few vending machines.

No one is dying of hunger on the Bairnsdale service. It turns out that passengers can survive just fine going four hours without a stale sausage roll or a cup of rancid coffee.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Buffet modules are expensive to instal and haemorrhage money in service. They will be appearing on the standard gauge line (six units at this stage) for political reasons, not because they make economic sense. At best, new-build broad gauge VLocity sets will get a few vending machines.

No one is dying of hunger on the Bairnsdale service. It turns out that passengers can survive just fine going four hours without a stale sausage roll or a cup of rancid coffee.
NimbleJack
http://www.rtbuvic.com.au/wp-content/uploads/RTBU-EXPRESS-10-2018.pdf

Are you suggesting that V/Line will reneg on that agreement with the RTBU? I so I had better start looking for a house to rent in Melbourne to see me through the strike action which would follow the announcement of the loss of most of those 60 conductor grade jobs.

BG
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Buffet modules are expensive to instal and haemorrhage money in service. They will be appearing on the standard gauge line (six units at this stage) for political reasons, not because they make economic sense. At best, new-build broad gauge VLocity sets will get a few vending machines.

No one is dying of hunger on the Bairnsdale service. It turns out that passengers can survive just fine going four hours without a stale sausage roll or a cup of rancid coffee.
NimbleJack

Well, I sincerely hope your sources are faulty.

Not one of V/Line's long-distance services makes economic sense anyway. So removing buffet modules seems like a strange hill to die on while the government is cheerfully dropping a few hundred mill into the Echuca line.

On the other hand, the standard set for public transport services shouldn't be whether passengers can "survive just fine". I think you would struggle to find a commercial airline anywhere running four-hour services with no refreshments on offer. A buffet is a relatively inexpensive piece in the much larger puzzle of getting people to use public transport.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Yes, we are supposed to get 5 car Vlocity sets with buffet cars for the long hauls. Warrnambool, Ararat, Maryborough (and places North), Echuca, Shepparton, Bairnsdale.
Dream on.

The only buffet-equipped sets will be for the standard gauge line to Albury. Expect to see them being tested late next year.

Hi and Welcome Aboard

Buffet cars are provided on the current longer distance V/Line services, are we saying this will not be the case for the proposed Vlocity sets for the SG longer distance services?

Albury Services we have to wait another 2 years for the rolling stock?
Buffet modules are expensive to instal and haemorrhage money in service. They will be appearing on the standard gauge line (six units at this stage) for political reasons, not because they make economic sense. At best, new-build broad gauge VLocity sets will get a few vending machines.

No one is dying of hunger on the Bairnsdale service. It turns out that passengers can survive just fine going four hours without a stale sausage roll or a cup of rancid coffee.
NimbleJack

Hi and again welcome aboard Nimble Jack.

I'm not certain where you get your information from, however suffice to say though the Albury line may be the first to get the new Inter-city V'Locity's, it's a given that they will retain the refresh service in a similar way to todays N cars.

I'm not certain that the new trains will have entirely vending machines either due to a number of factors...potential vandalism being one.
The new trains aren't being designed as 5 car units for nothing and it's a fair bet there will be more than enough room for a proper buffet module, or at the very least a trolley service or a possibly a combination of the two.

Moreover it's easy to say...'passengers can survive just fine going four hours without a stale sausage roll or a cup of rancid coffee', yet even on a 1 hour Sydney flight and particularly on a 4 hour Melbourne - Cairns flight people often partake of a proper meal service...so in your opinion what makes a 4 hour flight any different to a 4 hour train journey Question

Furthermore...if the government was looking at making economic sense...we would be back in the bad old days of the economic rationalists and we would replace all the Albury and other long-distance services with buses to enable the best return for the PT $ and we all know that's not going to happen.

Mike.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
In an attempt to dispel this story from the Herald-Sun for comparison purposes, I'd like to know the weight of a typical long distance V'Locity car as described in the story and the weight of an N Class locomotive.

My money is on the weight of the N Class loco being heavier of the two which will make the Herald-Sun story a typical beat-up for which that journal is renowned.

Mike.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

In an attempt to dispel this story from the Herald-Sun for comparison purposes, I'd like to know the weight of a typical long distance V'Locity car as described in the story and the weight of an N Class locomotive.

My money is on the weight of the N Class loco being heavier of the two which will make the Herald-Sun story a typical beat-up for which that journal is renowned.

Mike.
The Vinelander
As per V/Line Corporate NSP Addenda for future reference:

N-Class loco with D77/78 traction motors - total weight 128T, axle load 21.3T.

V/Locity - total weight 181T for a 3 car set, average axle load 15.1T (some axles will have heavier loads).
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
In an attempt to dispel this story from the Herald-Sun for comparison purposes, I'd like to know the weight of a typical long distance V'Locity car as described in the story and the weight of an N Class locomotive.

My money is on the weight of the N Class loco being heavier of the two which will make the Herald-Sun story a typical beat-up for which that journal is renowned.

Mike.
As per V/Line Corporate NSP Addenda for future reference:

N-Class loco with D77/78 traction motors - total weight 128T, axle load 21.3T.

V/Locity - total weight 181T for a 3 car set, average axle load 15.1T (some axles will have heavier loads).
Carnot

So...unless I'm mistaken, the Herald-Sun story was a beat up...
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Agree Mike and Carnot, I mightn't be the sharpest tool in the shed, but could not for the life of me, see what this issue, was with the alleged weight problem.

The fast rail tracks are mostly big boy concrete sleepers and probably 60kg/mtr rail, so should be good for 25 TAL at least, so is who ever beat this article up, trying to tell us, the V/lo's are heavier than that......Shocked

BigShunter.
  NimbleJack Station Master

Buffet modules are expensive to instal and haemorrhage money in service. They will be appearing on the standard gauge line (six units at this stage) for political reasons, not because they make economic sense. At best, new-build broad gauge VLocity sets will get a few vending machines.

No one is dying of hunger on the Bairnsdale service. It turns out that passengers can survive just fine going four hours without a stale sausage roll or a cup of rancid coffee.
http://www.rtbuvic.com.au/wp-content/uploads/RTBU-EXPRESS-10-2018.pdf

Are you suggesting that V/Line will reneg on that agreement with the RTBU? I so I had better start looking for a house to rent in Melbourne to see me through the strike action which would follow the announcement of the loss of most of those 60 conductor grade jobs.

BG
BrentonGolding
No, V/Line will not renege on their commitment to instal buffet modules on some VLocity sets. Those sets will be standard gauge and thus few and far between. No need to rent in Melbourne.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Keeping V/Los within a specified weight is important for performance and maintenance reasons though.  So not entirely a Herald Sun beat-up to be fair.

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