Location: Melbourne, Australia
It's all over for free speech in this country 
Rugby Australia terminates Israel Folau’s contract
bevans
Site Admin
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Dangersdan707
Chief Commissioner
Location: On a Thing with Internet
It's all over for free speech in this country
what do you mean I can't actively call for Gays and ethnic minorities to be Genocided. The Left has gone too far, this is cultural marxism and political correctness ruining Australia
Valvegear
Oliver Bullied, CME
Location: Richmond Vic
Where is free speech enshrined in legislation?
wobert
Chief Commissioner
Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Uuummm it's not about free speech, he broke his contract.
bingley hall
Minister for Railways
Location: Last train to Skaville
It's all over for free speech in this country
No-one is stopping him from saying anything.
The Vinelander
Minister for Railways
Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Uuummm it's not about free speech, he broke his contract.
Correct
When he signed the multi-million dollar contract, it came with some proviso's that were sacrosanct....end of.
Mike.
lsrailfan
Chief Commissioner
Location: Somewhere you're not
In the end, they found that he breached the broader code of player conduct, which would have been in the $4Million dollar contract that he signed, but RA don't come out of this one unscathed, they forgot to add a social media clause in the original contract, which would have been a massive help, if It was there....
Groundrelay
Chief Commissioner
Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
In the end, they found that he breached the broader code of player conduct, which would have been in the $4Million dollar contract that he signed, but RA don't come out of this one unscathed, they forgot to add a social media clause in the original contract, which would have been a massive help, if It was there....Plenty of jobs require you to keep your opinions to yourself.
Remember we have no 'right' to free speech. Those who want to protect freedom to hate also oppose us having a bill of rights.
lsrailfan
Chief Commissioner
Location: Somewhere you're not
Yes, so RA should have added the extra clause in the original contract, if they were fair dinkum about it.In the end, they found that he breached the broader code of player conduct, which would have been in the $4Million dollar contract that he signed, but RA don't come out of this one unscathed, they forgot to add a social media clause in the original contract, which would have been a massive help, if It was there....Plenty of jobs require you to keep your opinions to yourself.
Remember we have no 'right' to free speech. Those who want to protect freedom to hate also oppose us having a bill of rights.
freightgate
Minister for Railways
Location: Albury, New South Wales
The issue is around his contract and his beliefs being at odds with each other.
Can a contract percent a person from exercising their political beliefs ?
Can a contract percent a person from exercising their political beliefs ?
bevans
Site Admin
Location: Melbourne, Australia
We will never know what the contract between ARU and its sacked player stated well unless this is part of any court proceedings going forward. I understand the question of free speech but if minority groups are so motivated by ensuring their inclusion in to mainstream society and they agitate a lot, then surely one cost of inclusion is their ability to be inclusive of the view of non minority groups. Agree this beliefs (religious of otherwise) are probably at odds with the ARU contract. The question in my mind then becomes if he had these beliefs and that is his right, should those beliefs have been shared in the manner in which they were?
Valvegear
Oliver Bullied, CME
Location: Richmond Vic
Can a contract percent a person from exercising their political beliefs ?I assume you meant prevent a person . . .
First; nothing can stop anyone believing anything.
Second; In this case, it was not about political beliefs.
Folau can have whatever religion he likes, and nobody can stop him. However, any organisation is perfectly entitled to have a contract banning members from making derogatory remarks about persons or groups. This organisation has policies in place banning discrimination etc, and people who sign up have to abide by those policies. If you don't like the policy; don't sign. Simple.
petan
Chief Commissioner
Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
Some of the remarks heard in the media recently suggest we should just put up with his uncalled for gross insults just because he is good at playing football. These people seem to think winning at sport with him on the team is better than caring for the victims of his condemnations. The percentage of alternative sexuality people in the wider community suggests they are also within the Pacific Island community and his church, although he would probably deny that.
Aaron
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Location: University of Adelaide SA
Typically, you cannot contract away or waiver a legal right - which in general is why ‘legal waivers’ and in fact not legal.
Folau’s problem is that ‘free speech’ is not a legal right and Rugby Australia can absolutely contact out his right to make certain statements.
Suppose someone else had a $4M contract with Rugby Australia and they said ‘only white people should be allowed to play rugby’ would Falou and his supporters and Rugby Australia accept that? Of course not! And we’re not buying what Folau is selling either.
It was just a matter of time before Folau was sent packing. Rugby Australia is effectively entirely dependent on QANTAS cash, and Joyce is quite proudly and openly gay, if he shuts the QANTAS cheque book the whole RA organisation might as fold.
Folau’s problem is that ‘free speech’ is not a legal right and Rugby Australia can absolutely contact out his right to make certain statements.
Suppose someone else had a $4M contract with Rugby Australia and they said ‘only white people should be allowed to play rugby’ would Falou and his supporters and Rugby Australia accept that? Of course not! And we’re not buying what Folau is selling either.
It was just a matter of time before Folau was sent packing. Rugby Australia is effectively entirely dependent on QANTAS cash, and Joyce is quite proudly and openly gay, if he shuts the QANTAS cheque book the whole RA organisation might as fold.
KRviator
Moderator
Location: Up the front
The infuriating thing about the whole mess is the tripe from Alan Jone$$ and the rest of the pillocks about "Censoring free speech". It was never about free speech, or denying him his 'right' to it, which AIUI, is not an enshrined right in Australia in any event in the same manner it is in other countries, with the exception of a few state-based laws.
Rugby Australia is perfectly within their rights to expect their employees to not put their business model at risk with public comments, and his contract would be worded in asimilar vein, specific social media clause or not.
Folau is entitled to believe in whatever imaginary friend he feels is his diety - he certainly is not free to publicise his hatred and vitriol of those he feels are not Christian enough down others throats and I'm glad RA, and the ARLC in the case of Jack De Belin, both won their respective cases to show football players they are no different to any other employee in this country, and they are expected tobehave as such or risk suspension or expulsion.
Rugby Australia is perfectly within their rights to expect their employees to not put their business model at risk with public comments, and his contract would be worded in asimilar vein, specific social media clause or not.
Folau is entitled to believe in whatever imaginary friend he feels is his diety - he certainly is not free to publicise his hatred and vitriol of those he feels are not Christian enough down others throats and I'm glad RA, and the ARLC in the case of Jack De Belin, both won their respective cases to show football players they are no different to any other employee in this country, and they are expected tobehave as such or risk suspension or expulsion.
lsrailfan
Chief Commissioner
Location: Somewhere you're not
Israel Folau will not be appealing his termination of contract by Rugby Australia, but rather, he will head directly to the courts- https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/israel-folau-doesnt-appeal-code-of-conduct-sanction/ar-AABBU0A?li=AAgfIYZ&ocid=spartanntp
KRviator
Moderator
Location: Up the front
IANAL but I can't see him winning that...As Jack De Belin recently found out - even though he is still technically innocent of any crime, the NRL has the authority to stand him down due to potential damage to their reputation his being charged may cause. Folau was warned about his social media shenanigans last year and did it again under the guise of 'religious freedom', basically taunting RA into doing something. What does he really expect from it?
Let's say he wins his court challenge and gets his job back - what sponsor is going to spend millions of dollars supporting an organisation that openly supports (even if under protest) homophobic twats? Wouldn't surprise me if Qantas took their millions elsewhere at a minimum and then where's his behaviour got not only him, but the rest of his team mates?
Much better to suck it up and go play elsewhere.
Let's say he wins his court challenge and gets his job back - what sponsor is going to spend millions of dollars supporting an organisation that openly supports (even if under protest) homophobic twats? Wouldn't surprise me if Qantas took their millions elsewhere at a minimum and then where's his behaviour got not only him, but the rest of his team mates?
Much better to suck it up and go play elsewhere.
Carnot
Minister for Railways
I think he's been made a scapegoat and an example of (especially compared to the misdemeanors and punishments of other rugby players).
But if I was in his shoes I wouldn't want anything to do with ARU, and instead I would just go and play in Twiggy Forrest's league.
But if I was in his shoes I wouldn't want anything to do with ARU, and instead I would just go and play in Twiggy Forrest's league.
Valvegear
Oliver Bullied, CME
Location: Richmond Vic
I think he's been made a scapegoat and an example of (especially compared to the misdemeanors and punishments of other rugby players).He was warned and chose to ignore it, and you conveniently ignore the disciplinary actions that have been meted out to others.
But if I was in his shoes I wouldn't want anything to do with ARUSo you don't approve of organisations that expect their members to conform to the terms of a contract. Thanks, now we know where your principles lie.
RustyRick
Chief Commissioner
Location: South West Vic
Let's say he wins his court challenge and gets his job back - what sponsor is going to spend millions of dollars supporting an organisation that openly supports (even if under protest) homophobic twats? Wouldn't surprise me if Qantas took their millions elsewhere at a minimum and then where's his behaviour got not only him, but the rest of his team mates?This is not a "normal" job. If he wins and goes back on the ARU books, it doesn't mean he would ever get selected. People get dropped from teams all the time, and good players not selected because of all sorts of reasons the coach/management state.
The best scenario for Folau is he disappears overseas and starts a new career. Worst would be to win the case and never get picked. It a shame for his family if they have to move for work, but I've been there like many others. I'm not on a million dollar contract though...
Rick
emerald-a
Junior Train Controller
I don't mind them sacking him if their contract allows, just don't keep repeating that you are an inclusive organisation whilst you tell a large proportion of the worlds population that they are unwelcome in your game.
It makes you look dumb and dishonest to do so
It makes you look dumb and dishonest to do so
KRviator
Moderator
Location: Up the front
I don't mind them sacking him if their contract allows, just don't keep repeating that you are an inclusive organisation whilst you tell a large proportion of the worlds population that they are unwelcome in your game.Oh, FFS, he was not sacked for being Christian. Nothing of the sort. He was sacked because he vilified a bunch of people on social media under the guise of his Christianity. You need to learn to distinguish between the two - and he can't have it both ways, that is, expect to be supported in his religion yet openly attack other players who may be gay or whatever on social media.
It makes you look dumb and dishonest to do so
Aaron
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Location: University of Adelaide SA
I don't mind them sacking him if their contract allows, just don't keep repeating that you are an inclusive organisation whilst you tell a large proportion of the worlds population that they are unwelcome in your game.That's not even close to what happened.
It makes you look dumb and dishonest to do so
Suppose I as a white guy and possessing vastly more sporting talent than I have were a (insert sport here) player on a massive contract said 'I think only white men ought be admitted into the league'.
You would expect me to be sacked wouldn't you? (I sincerely hope you would expect that). When I was sacked, would you think the league was sacking me back I was white? Of course you wouldn't, you would know I was being sacked because I said something blatantly damaging and against what we believe as a society.
Folau isn't being sacked for being Christian. He's being sacked because he made a heinous statement in public that is incredibly damaging to his (potentially gay) employer(s), fellow players, officials, team support staff etc and not within the generally accepted standards of our society.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'd love to think that Rugby Australia, indeed any employer in Australia, would/could summarily terminate anyone who cherry picks parts of the Bible to justify their belief whilst ignoring all the bits contrary, but I am rational enough to know that this just doesn't happen.
emerald-a
Junior Train Controller
I don't know why people insist on pretending that he wasn't sacked because of his faith.
He was expressing the views of his religion , he was sacked for expressing the views of his religion.
He was expressing the views of his religion , he was sacked for expressing the views of his religion.
Aaron
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Location: University of Adelaide SA
I am absolutely no fan of any religion, but I know a good many (okay, a small few) religious people who would disagree with his views.
I worked with a lady who considered herself a ‘real’ catholic, but even she voted in favour of same sex marriage at the plebiscite. Her son has a couple of kids to a woman he’s not married to, and she doesn’t think any of them are going anywhere bad.
Folau is being sacked for precisely what he said, and not what he believes, even if the two are entirely the same thing. If he kept believing it and never horrified the sponsors by tweeting it he’d still be under contract.
I worked with a lady who considered herself a ‘real’ catholic, but even she voted in favour of same sex marriage at the plebiscite. Her son has a couple of kids to a woman he’s not married to, and she doesn’t think any of them are going anywhere bad.
Folau is being sacked for precisely what he said, and not what he believes, even if the two are entirely the same thing. If he kept believing it and never horrified the sponsors by tweeting it he’d still be under contract.
Subscribers: KRviator, Transtopic
Quick Reply
We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.