@DonDunstan Zero evidence. Don the forecasts from the Bank of England, OBR, CBI etc says otherwise. So am I to believe experts or some geezer from Adelaide who hasn't the faintest idea about what the EU is about. And has noevidence to support his claims. He just hates the EU.

Michael

And you're some geezer British ex-pat living in Melbourne who doesn't think a majority vote should win if you don't like the outcome. You're a secret fascist, Michael, you know that don't you!

I've said repeatedly I'm not anti-EU, I just think that it completely disrespects the people who voted for the UK to leave to not at least try and follow through with their wishes. You've said nothing at all about this because you know I'm right; all you can come back with was your baseless assertion that the UK people didn't know what they were voting for when there's ample evidence that they knew exactly what they were voting for.

So what if the banking industry doesn't like it - it's a trading bloc, Michael - it's not the end of the world that they're leaving it. The way that you people bang on you'd think the UK will be sucked down a sink hole and never emerge again. It's just not that catastrophic.

That is all opinion Don. What you have stated is facts in your own mind. If there are ample evidence that they did know what they were voting for, then please supply it. Just because you aggressively state something it does not mean it is right.

On example of why the people who vote leave were misled. I can pull up a clip where Nigel Farage states that we can be like Norway, then 18 months later it is we can leave with out a deal. Boris Johnson has voted against the May deal claiming that it will leave Britain as a Vassal state, and then votes for it. Now he is Prime Minster he has changed his mind once again. This has all happened.

It hasnt been just the Banking Industry warning about Brexit. That is just another lie Don. The Government's own Office of Budgetary responsibility, Confederation of British Industry, UK Medical Association, National Union of Farmers, Road Haulage Association and I can go on, have warned about the negative effects of Brexit. The OBR has stated that based on their modelling the UK economy will shrink by between 5 and 8%. I hope that there isnt a disaster Don, I really do. But these experts, they have far more credentials then you.

The EU is not just a trading block. Yet another lie Don. It is a Political Union. Why have a Parliament if it is just a trading bloc. And before you spout off about the executive of the EU having all the say. Thde MEP's from Britain could have shaped the direction of the EU, but the UK votes in absolute UKIP clowns, clueless gits, the lot of them.

Michael

it completely disrespects the people who voted for the UK to leave

What a pile of BS and I'm sure you know this.

How much effort has been put into trying to Brexit, the issue you know full well is that the parliamentary vote issued to the MP's is based on a detailed plan, however the question issued to the people was simplistic at best, naive at worst.

Could do if the final Brexit outcome pi$$e$ off the Pro-Independent Scots.

Fine, let them leave. They'll probably go broke again just like they did last time.

Talk about dummy spit response.

Let go down this Brexit path so hard that
- Despite what the current polls say
- Despite the likely independent vote in Scotland
- Depsite the likely violence that could erupt in Nth ireland
- Despite the legal and political complexities to actually do Brexit

No, we will do it anyway.

You are now being hypocritical supporting irresponsible govt and trying to abandon the democratic process of the UK.

Yes, an Independent Scotland may go broke or at least suffer a significant drop in quality of living standards, however since when as this stopped the drive for Independence / self-rule in the past?

Referendums have to be passed by Parliament in a Westminster system. Remember the same sex marriage. That was 65 to 35% of the vote, it still had to through Parliament to be approved. So referendums on their own are NOT Binding.

That's a plebiscite. Referendums in Australia are definitely binding, but they are specifically for changing the Constitution. Subtle but important difference. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_Australia

Referendums have to be passed by Parliament in a Westminster system. Remember the same sex marriage. That was 65 to 35% of the vote, it still had to through Parliament to be approved. So referendums on their own are NOT Binding.

That's a plebiscite. Referendums in Australia are definitely binding, but they are specifically for changing the Constitution. Subtle but important difference. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_Australia

Its interesting reading the details from a number of the Australian referendums in that link the Brexit one which in legal terms is considered "Pre-Legislative" or "consultative" and specifically aimed at seeking an opinion of the people.

The Australian Referendums are however Legislative with the exact change already spelled out.

That is all opinion Don. What you have stated is facts in your own mind. If there are ample evidence that they did know what they were voting for, then please supply it. Just because you aggressively state something it does not mean it is right.

On example of why the people who vote leave were misled. I can pull up a clip where Nigel Farage states that we can be like Norway, then 18 months later it is we can leave with out a deal. Boris Johnson has voted against the May deal claiming that it will leave Britain as a Vassal state, and then votes for it. Now he is Prime Minster he has changed his mind once again. This has all happened.

I'm not aggressively stating something Michael, that's in your head. Yet again you drag out what people said from ages ago like this somehow justifies not implementing the result of the referendum. It doesn't, it has nothing to do with it - it's just all circumstantial.

It hasnt been just the Banking Industry warning about Brexit. That is just another lie Don. The Government's own Office of Budgetary responsibility, Confederation of British Industry, UK Medical Association, National Union of Farmers, Road Haulage Association and I can go on, have warned about the negative effects of Brexit. The OBR has stated that based on their modelling the UK economy will shrink by between 5 and 8%. I hope that there isnt a disaster Don, I really do. But these experts, they have far more credentials then you.

So what? They're just projections, and if the hard Brexit goes ahead they will deal with it when it happens.

I have much more confidence in the capacity of the private sector to absorb any problems that you do - you seem to think the universe is going to end, that the entire planet will collapse simply because Britain is leaving a trading bloc. The ridiculous shill hysterics of the anti-Brexit mob are truly beyond belief; it's like Y2K all over again (remember that?).

Or are you going throw the 'some geezer from Adelaide' label at me again to try and belittle my stance?

The EU is not just a trading block. Yet another lie Don. It is a Political Union. Why have a Parliament if it is just a trading bloc. And before you spout off about the executive of the EU having all the say. Thde MEP's from Britain could have shaped the direction of the EU, but the UK votes in absolute UKIP clowns, clueless gits, the lot of them. Michael

Yeah, sorry Michael but that's all it is - a trading bloc with a Federal parliament on top. It will not be missed despite the hysterics of the pro-remainers.

Could do if the final Brexit outcome pi$$e$ off the Pro-Independent Scots.

Fine, let them leave. They'll probably go broke again just like they did last time.

Talk about dummy spit response.

Let go down this Brexit path so hard that
- Despite what the current polls say
- Despite the likely independent vote in Scotland
- Depsite the likely violence that could erupt in Nth ireland
- Despite the legal and political complexities to actually do Brexit

No, we will do it anyway.

You are now being hypocritical supporting irresponsible govt and trying to abandon the democratic process of the UK.

Yes, an Independent Scotland may go broke or at least suffer a significant drop in quality of living standards, however since when as this stopped the drive for Independence / self-rule in the past?

"Dummy-spit response"? Again, like Michael you're trying to gaslight me.

On the one hand you're saying its okay for the Scottish people to exit the UK but not okay for the UK to leave the EU. One drive for independence is okay despite the possible consequences - but the other one (which was decided three years ago) somehow isn't right with you.

Make up your mind.

"Dummy-spit response"? Again, like Michael you're trying to gaslight me.

On the one hand you're saying its okay for the Scottish people to exit the UK but not okay for the UK to leave the EU. One drive for independence is okay despite the possible consequences - but the other one (which was decided three years ago) somehow isn't right with you.

Make up your mind.

Yes it was a Dummy spit response, now back to the discussion at hand.

There are two issues here and you are jumping back and forwards between the two to sustain your argument.

1) Debate on whether the UK should remain in the EU or stay.

Personally, my level of care on stay or go is near zero.
Personal preference is stay with changes to resolve the issues that have arisen, these can be resolved. All Political unions come under strain from time to time with threats to leave, Aust, Canada, USA and even the UK all have had to deal with over the countries life to date.


Of all the publications and propaganda on the STAY or LEAVE debate, I would have to say from what I've seen, the LEAVERS (of which some are close friends from UK) are (re)publishing more BULL $HIT than STAYERS and it only takes 5min in WIKI and other to work out why.  

I have no further interest in this part of the BREXIT debate.


2) The process and reason why the UK has failed to exit the EU as per the survey done in 2016.

This part I originally couldn't care less for, however the increasing stupidity that is rising in media, social media and here on why they haven't left is getting out of control.

If you feel the MP's should all just roll over and vote under any conditions because of a survey, then you are some where between clueless and irrational of the British/Westminster political process. Again in social media you see poms blaming the Queen for all this, obviously forgetting the Monarch is a mere accepted figurehead role that is historically portrayed as some all wise and powerful being and has more than the powers she realistically has.

The one thing that I have got out of all this is that the British "non-constitution" govt is broken and the cause for the failure of BREXIT as it allowed a non-detailed or legal wording (basically the T's and C's of how the UK would leave) for the Brexit vote to be issued in the first place, which couldn't happen in Australia. Although had they had real Constitution the BREXIT vote would likely have failed in the first place.  

At the end of the day are the STAYERS to blame for the failure for the UK to BREXIT, no, infact some LEAVERS in govt have also voted down the various PM proposals to leave because they didn't support the T's and C's of the proposal.


Now Scotland
On the one hand you're saying its okay for the Scottish people to exit the UK but not okay for the UK to leave the EU. One drive for independence is okay despite the possible consequences - but the other one (which was decided three years ago) somehow isn't right with you.

Did I say or imply that its ok for one or not the other, no, so please don't BS my comments to suit your own twisted ever changing argument.

I was purely highlighting a potential consequence of Brexit and one of the complexities the PM and MP's have to deal with. Even an MP representing say inner London would be concerned that getting BRexit wrong could see the break up of the UK or returning to violence in Nth Ireland. You would be a fool to think otherwise.

Again Don you are good at highlighting issues with no answers of your own.

@DonDunstan I thought that would be easy Don. Scotland feel that their future lies with Europe not a Brexit Government from Westminster. For the record I think Scotland should remain within UK.

The only person who is gaslighting you is yourself Don.

Michael

Don's right because he says so.

@DonDunstan Confidence in the Private sector? Based on what? The Confederation of British Industry, the Road Haulage Industry entities that represent both the Public and Private sector has voiced their concerns. Again you have just given your opinion with no evidence. Just slogans and rhetoric. Because no one is saying that there will be a disaster verging on the purge. YBut experts have said there will be a quite severe contraction of the economy. And they know better than some blowhard from Adelaide.

No one is gaslighting anyone. You really need to get over yourself Don.

Michael

...

Again Don you are good at highlighting issues with no answers of your own.

As I've said repeatedly they need to get it over with - now!

Boris should just get a bare bones or no-deal through so they that can get on with the business of actually governing the nation; they can sort out the problems as they emerge (if any). This three years of uncertainty has fed alarmists like Michael who think all sorts of crazy alternate-universe scale catastrophes are inevitable just because they cancel a trade bloc membership. There's only one way to find out - get it over with as promised to the British people and then everyone can get on with their lives.

@DonDunstan Confidence in the Private sector? Based on what? The Confederation of British Industry, the Road Haulage Industry entities that represent both the Public and Private sector has voiced their concerns. Again you have just given your opinion with no evidence. Just slogans and rhetoric. Because no one is saying that there will be a disaster verging on the purge. YBut experts have said there will be a quite severe contraction of the economy. And they know better than some blowhard from Adelaide.

No one is gaslighting anyone. You really need to get over yourself Don.

Michael

My arguments are purely related to reason, Michael, and yours are an appeal to emotion. If anyone here is a cranky old man it's you, mate. Doom, gloom! We'll all be rooned I tells 'ya!

Seriously, Michael - you aren't even resident there any longer - why worry about it? And it won't be nearly as bad as has been catestrophised by the Remainers I can assure you; hell, the UK might even attract businesses trying to get away from the yolk of the EU, ever thought of it that way?

We've crossed though the looking glass now peoples - Julia Gilard to speak at Boris Johnson's first Conservative Party conference - Sydney Morning Herald:

The former Labor prime minister will speak on a panel to discuss international aid and education, in her capacity as chair of the Global Partnership for Education.

The surprise appearance from Australia's first female prime minister comes after the Supreme Court ruling which cut short the Labour Party's conference in Brighton last week threatened to overshadow Johnson's prime ministerial debut before the conference in Manchester.


There's a little bit of heat on poor dear comrade Julia at the moment about her use of an AWU slush fund in the 1990's to renovate her house in Abbottsford VIC - perhaps the other side of the world at a Tory Party conference is a good place for our former Prime Minister.

@DonDunstan Confidence in the Private sector? Based on what? The Confederation of British Industry, the Road Haulage Industry entities that represent both the Public and Private sector has voiced their concerns. Again you have just given your opinion with no evidence. Just slogans and rhetoric. Because no one is saying that there will be a disaster verging on the purge. YBut experts have said there will be a quite severe contraction of the economy. And they know better than some blowhard from Adelaide.

No one is gaslighting anyone. You really need to get over yourself Don.

Michael

My arguments are purely related to reason, Michael, and yours are an appeal to emotion. If anyone here is a cranky old man it's you, mate. Doom, gloom! We'll all be rooned I tells 'ya!

Seriously, Michael - you aren't even resident there any longer - why worry about it? And it won't be nearly as bad as has been catestrophised by the Remainers I can assure you; hell, the UK might even attract businesses trying to get away from the yolk of the EU, ever thought of it that way?

Don now you are even lying to yourself, mate. Again you really need to get over yourself and refrain from calling people cranky because they do not agree with your view. There will be no catastrophe because I said so. That's is reason? All I want is some evidence. Just because you are saying things that you cannot prove does not make it reasoned.

I can give evidence that the UK can introduce more rigourous Immigration rules regarding EU nationals like the Germans and the Italians, I can tell you that Nissan, Autobus, DeutscheBank, Siemens, etc are talking to the Dutch government about moving their operations from Britain because of Brexit. I can tell you that the UK has a veto. I can tell you that the UK can by choice not be in the Eurozone or Schengen. I can tell you that the UK has been give $750 Billion worth of business to manage the Eurobond business even though the UK is not in the Eurozone. All evidence that can be looked up and what do I get as a rebuttle. Blah, blah, blah fascist, blah, blah, blah cranky old man, blah blah I can assure. You can assure jack. You are even telling us that you know the Private sector than the businesses themselves. It is not my fault you do not like what you see in the mirror.  

No I havent looked at it that way, because that is a stupid statement. As if any business except Whetherspoons (crappy pubs) and The owners of the Ritz, who are probably speculating that the Pound will tank so they clean up, will be happy about being outside of a huge market?

I have told you why I worry about it. Its clear that you only read what you want to read. I have provided evidence and YOU have provided nothing but emotion. Why do you care if the UK Brexits or not?

I will leave you to argue with yourself. Clearly facts do not reasonate with you

Don now you are even lying to yourself, mate. Again you really need to get over yourself and refrain from calling people cranky because they do not agree with your view. There will be no catastrophe because I said so. That's is reason? All I want is some evidence. Just because you are saying things that you cannot prove does not make it reasoned.

Michael, you called me 'some geezer from Adelaide'. I don't think that's a compliment, do you?

I can give evidence that the UK can introduce more rigourous Immigration rules regarding EU nationals like the Germans and the Italians, I can tell you that Nissan, Autobus, DeutscheBank, Siemens, etc are talking to the Dutch government about moving their operations from Britain because of Brexit. I can tell you that the UK has a veto. I can tell you that the UK can by choice not be in the Eurozone or Schengen. I can tell you that the UK has been give $750 Billion worth of business to manage the Eurobond business even though the UK is not in the Eurozone. All evidence that can be looked up and what do I get as a rebuttle. Blah, blah, blah fascist, blah, blah, blah cranky old man, blah blah I can assure. You can assure jack. You are even telling us that you know the Private sector than the businesses themselves.

All I hear here is the shrill siren of pure ALARMISM.

No I havent looked at it that way, because that is a stupid statement. As if any business except Whetherspoons (crappy pubs) and The owners of the Ritz, who are probably speculating that the Pound will tank so they clean up, will be happy about being outside of a huge market? I have told you why I worry about it. Its clear that you only read what you want to read. I have provided evidence and YOU have provided nothing but emotion. Why do you care if the UK Brexits or not? I will leave you to argue with yourself. Clearly facts do not reasonate with you

Michael, Michael - clearly you're popping a vein with the idea that there might actually be benefits from the UK exiting that all-controlling and restrictive trading bloc. Perhaps you'd better (in the old-fashioned parlance of us colonials) have a Bex and a good lie down? We might not know much out here in the antipodes but we do have the prescription for a good rest from blowing a gasket.

...

Again Don you are good at highlighting issues with no answers of your own.

As I've said repeatedly they need to get it over with - now!

Boris should just get a bare bones or no-deal through so they that can get on with the business of actually governing the nation; they can sort out the problems as they emerge (if any). This three years of uncertainty has fed alarmists like Michael who think all sorts of crazy alternate-universe scale catastrophes are inevitable just because they cancel a trade bloc membership. There's only one way to find out - get it over with as promised to the British people and then everyone can get on with their lives.

You are going around in circles because you don't like the answer.

1) We have already discussed why its taking so long. Its because the MP's that represent the people cannot agree of the T's and C's. Remember the SSM debate, not everyone agreed.

2) Despite your indifference to the fate of the UK people and their future, some MP's are actually concerns about their constituents future and do not support a no deal Brexit which leaves the UK exposed to the back lash of the EU as well as potential for social instability and even for the UK to break apart as well as the interests of those British who live, work and have investments in the EU for the benefit of the UK.

Again you go on about a promise? No one in the govt has made a promise to the people and the non-binding survey's own records state the outcome of the vote does not dictate that the vote will be carried rather it may also be used to address some of the issues with the EU.

My guess is an extension will be thrown to the house, it will be passed and BJ will resign or be dumped.

The below maybe of interest, however as you are going round in circles and not adding anything new to the debate, perhaps this is where we all get off.

Regards
Shane

Can no-deal Brexit be stopped?
By Daniel Kraemer
BBC Westminster
3 September 2019

Boris Johnson has said the UK will leave the EU on 31 October "do or die"
Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said the UK will leave the EU on 31 October "do or die" - even if it means walking away without a deal.

Many people oppose a no-deal Brexit, with MPs planning action in Parliament and others taking to the courts. But can no deal be stopped now that the government has decided to suspend Parliament?

How could the PM make no deal happen?


A no-deal Brexit means the UK would immediately leave the EU with no agreement in place about the "divorce" process - or how they separate.

There are three ways to avoid this happening on 31 October: MPs could pass a deal, postpone the date of exit, or cancel Brexit altogether.

But unless a new plan is agreed, Mr Johnson does not need to do anything for a no-deal Brexit to happen.

This is because the UK's departure on 31 October is already written into law. He could just run the clock down.

However, it's not as simple as that.

Most MPs in the UK Parliament are against leaving without a deal. And they could try to stop it from happening.

What can MPs do to stop no deal?

Despite having little time, MPs still have options for trying to block a no-deal Brexit.

Passing a new law that would force the PM to request an extension has emerged as the preferred course of action.

What happens in Parliament is usually up to the government, so MPs have to find a way to wrest control of the timetable.

Emergency debate

Expect to hear about an "SO24" this week. This refers to Standing Order No. 24, the rule that allows MPs to ask for an emergency debate.

These debates usually have no power to force action.

On Tuesday, however, a cross-party group of MPs are using SO24 to take control of Parliament's timetable on Wednesday and put forward legislation.

They want Brexit to be delayed until 31 January, unless MPs had approved a new deal, or voted in favour of a no-deal exit, by 19 October.

No-deal Brexit: What you need to know
Will we see an early election? And other questions
Everything you need to know about Brexit
What is a vote of no confidence?
It would usually take weeks for legislation to pass through both Houses of Parliament. But the proposers of the new bill expect to be able to pass all stages and have it signed off by the Queen by Monday, before parliament is shut down (or prorogued).

Tory rebels have been warned they face expulsion from the party and deselection if they support the cross-party legislation. But a number have said they will do so, or are not standing at the next election anyway.

One hurdle could come in the House of Lords. Although opponents to no deal have a large majority, peers wanting to block a piece of legislation could talk and talk until there is no time left.

Vote of no confidence

Seen by some as the "nuclear option", MPs have the option to vote out the government.

If a majority of MPs vote against the government, a formal process kicks off under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act:

A period of 14 calendar days allows the PM to prove he holds the confidence of Parliament
During this time, if another MP can prove they hold the support of a majority of MPs, the current prime minister is expected to give way
If no government has been formed after 14 days, a general election will be triggered
If this were to happen before Parliament is suspended, MPs would have much fewer than 14 days to try and form an alternative government. Once Parliament is prorogued, time would be up and we would slide towards a general election.

Pass a deal!
It is still possible for MPs to approve a deal before exit day. This is the course of action ministers say they prefer.

The PM could return from the EU summit in mid-October with a brand new deal, propose it to MPs and get it passed in time for the 31 October deadline.

But the main hurdle here - aside from persuading a majority of MPs to back him - would be whether he has enough time to pass the legislation that is needed to implement the deal.

Use the courts
It isn't just Parliament which could get in the way of the PM's prorogation plans - a number of legal challenges are making their way through the courts.

In Scotland, a judge has refused to order a temporary halt to plans to shut the UK Parliament. But a further hearing of the case is to be held on Tuesday.

The action is being taken by a cross-party group of 75 politicians, who want the court to rule that prorogation would be illegal and unconstitutional.

Cases are also being started in Belfast and London, both seeking injunctions to block the closure of Parliament.

Northern Irish campaigner Raymond McCord is waiting to hear the result of his challenge.

What is prorogation?
And Sir John Major is joining forces with campaigner Gina Miller. The former Conservative prime minister believes Parliament is being closed to prevent MPs from opposing a no-deal Brexit.

If any injunction to block prorogation is granted, the government would immediately appeal and the cases could end up in the Supreme Court

@DonDunstan Benefits of leaving? Name one? Me popping a vein and alarmist. That is just word salad Don. From someone who has got nothing to back up his statements. You just dont like the EU.

Michael

@RTTRules good call. Reasoned arguments dont register with the likes of Don.

Michael

@DonDunstan Benefits of leaving? Name one?

£15.5 billion pounds better off for a start - Office for National Statistics.

Me popping a vein and alarmist. That is just word salad Don. From someone who has got nothing to back up his statements. You just dont like the EU.

I've said nothing about the EU: You on the other hand just don't like the 17 million Britons who voted to leave. You think they're northern and backward. Isn't that the truth?

You are going around in circles because you don't like the answer.

Nah actually I'm pretty clear about what the solution is as I said a few posts up. If anyone doesn't know what they're blathering on about its you two.

@DonDunstan Yeah Don, you keep on telling yourself that. One day you might even believe in your BS.

Michael

@DonDunstan Yeah Don, you keep on telling yourself that. One day you might even believe in your BS.

Michael

Isn't that the truth though, Michael - you hate people who voted to leave.

They're not progressive enough for you - you think they're old school British, northern and racist. That's the only reason you don't want the UK to exit the EU - you don't want to give those people what they wanted.

@DonDunstan Thought it would not take long before you accuse me of saying that people are racist. I have given you multiple reasons as to why I think Brexit is a bad idea. Multiple experts feel the same. You dont and that is fine. If you want to get so cross about it that is your prerogative. But I must ask Why do you care so much?

How sad that you are the only one that believes in your own BS.

Jog on Don.


Michael

@DonDunstan Thought it would not take long before you accuse me of saying that people are racist. I have given you multiple reasons as to why I think Brexit is a bad idea. Multiple experts feel the same. You dont and that is fine.

It doesn't matter that "multiple experts" think its a bad idea, the vote was done and dusted three years ago. The results are in - the majority of Britons wanted out. None of that post-event alarmist analysis matters for one jot - the British public have already spoken.

And you obviously don't think my position is 'fine', otherwise you wouldn't still be here arguing the point!

If you want to get so cross about it that is your prerogative. But I must ask Why do you care so much? How sad that you are the only one that believes in your own BS. Jog on Don. Michael

We actually have extremely limited control over our lives as ordinary citizens and what David Cameron did in 2016 was say "okay, if you want us to leave the EU here's your chance". Shock, horror! The British public didn't vote the way that business and the self-appointed progressive elites wanted them to vote - now they're devoting all their time and energy towards making sure that the one opportunity the British people were given to actually have a say on the destiny of their nation is derailed so they can't even get their way on the one thing they were consulted on.

"Do-over!" the elites cry, "...we weren't ready!". The fact is that they simply weren't aware that the general feeling out there was against greater integration with Europe and the freedom of people and goods had actually hurt some members of the community who were (depending on where they lived) not participating in the substantial economic prosperity of the home-counties. I've been to the UK more than once, I've seen the stark difference between the south and the north - they might as well be different countries in terms of their economic prosperity. In some ways I think the "Leave" vote was to remind Westminister that those economically disadvantaged parts of the UK actually existed and that they weren't happy.

Not following through with what the public wanted is an additional slap in the face for those folk - not only are they not enjoying the prosperity of home counties but they're also going to continue to be ignored, marginalised, and treated as irrelevant to the other half of the nation doing quite well.