Climate Change Action Day

 
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
rxclass, defending an ability to go nomading / going bush would be likely a priority of your avg climate/eco/kiddie striker. Low Carbon transport is entirely possible, aviation too, unless we utterly blow the carbon budget and smeg are fully trumps.

The insanity of millions of us driving petrol/diesel cars daily cross city to get to jobs we might move closer to - if only the jobs were secure, there were childcare places and good schools, and it didn't cost $40k stamp duty or an extra $100 pw rent - is a more target for change. (Let alone PT that is dependable and doesnt go via CBD.)

I understand driving to school in Nuri but I really have trouble with kids driving to school in cities. Doesn't seem right to me. I did attend school in the 1980s though, when most of us didnt even turn 18 til late in Yr 12. It is the same with 12 y.o. ordering coffees.
pvcommuter
I don't disagree that lower Carbon transport will one day be available for the Grey Nomads etc, but its not here now.

The biggest and lowest impact to the economy is to reduce carbon and the high cost of PT projects and major road projects is to force people to live within reasonable distances of their place of work and schools, but is anyone will to do it? My dad commuted 80km for 25 years, I'm doing it here in Dubai, my wife is 125km each way each day, my kids travel by bus 35km, at school I traveled 70km. Jobs are not that insecure that people cannot move to their location of work.

When I was at school, any Yr 12 with a license (age 17 and most kids are 17 in yr 12 by end of Term 1) and had the money to drive a car, did unless they traveled as far as I and a few others did. I assume little has changed apart from the cars being newer and using less fuel.

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  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
I'm pretty cheesed off at the polarisation of the debate.  I and most of the population are basically convinced of the science of Climate Change, but alarmism and those who are using it as a vehicle for  pushing a radical political ideology has disenfranchised a large proportion of the electorate and given ammunition for reactionary right-wing denialism and mud-slinging.

Much more focus should be placed on reducing emissions from transport use. And conservatives would be wise to be true conservatives and be conservationists!


G'day all,

I just spent 3 days in Nuriootpa in SA , staying in a cabin at the local caravan park. The park is near the local high school. Over the road from the school is the student's car park. Scores of cars all proudly displaying their 'P' plates.

How do you propose we reduce transport emissions. Do we ban or ration civilian airline travel. Do we tell the many 100,000s grey nomads that their RV trips around Australia is no longer allowed. Do we limit the use of or ban vehicle fossil fuels. Any of these would, if taken to extreme, have a very devastating effect on the economy, including massive unemployment.

As President Macron of France found, climate change is warm and fuzzy when it is theory, BUT poison when it is sacrifice.

Regards,
rxclass
The far side of politics have zero Interest In debate or alternative opinion !

If you dare to don't agree with them, they will try everything they can to slam you, shut you down (now referred to "de-platform")

In the past people who haven't towed the political line have been convicted with high treason and promptly executed (still happens In curtain places around the world)
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
LancedDendrite
That Sums up this thread very well.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
I'm pretty cheesed off at the polarisation of the debate.  I and most of the population are basically convinced of the science of Climate Change, but alarmism and those who are using it as a vehicle for  pushing a radical political ideology has disenfranchised a large proportion of the electorate and given ammunition for reactionary right-wing denialism and mud-slinging.

Much more focus should be placed on reducing emissions from transport use. And conservatives would be wise to be true conservatives and be conservationists!


G'day all,

I just spent 3 days in Nuriootpa in SA , staying in a cabin at the local caravan park. The park is near the local high school. Over the road from the school is the student's car park. Scores of cars all proudly displaying their 'P' plates.

How do you propose we reduce transport emissions. Do we ban or ration civilian airline travel. Do we tell the many 100,000s grey nomads that their RV trips around Australia is no longer allowed. Do we limit the use of or ban vehicle fossil fuels. Any of these would, if taken to extreme, have a very devastating effect on the economy, including massive unemployment.

As President Macron of France found, climate change is warm and fuzzy when it is theory, BUT poison when it is sacrifice.

Regards,
rxclass
As a young Rural Australian this annoying when you have smeg all Public transport that's so infrequent its essentially non existent. Its still a right of passage and a culture thing. I'm pretty sure there's not much PT in rural SA. Its also nearly the end of year for them and so most of them really have not much choice.

Transport emissions can be lowered through a variety of ways, expansion of PT, Subsidisation of Rail freight, Mass production of electric cars. We Need a planned Just Transition, in this country to limit the amount of economic harm it may cause, something both major parties here have not done. There is also the Culture in this nation and the west that needs to change after all since the 1950s we have been right on cars as a part of out culture and individualism.

Macron is a idiot, cutting Polluting corporations taxes while raising the common mans price of living. Neo-Liberal Capitalism 101 hey? We are going to need to change to survive in this country and to protect the planet. Every one should want a nicer planet to live on, it baffles me how people still back coal and co despite that it will eventually all run out, changing to renewables in my view is inevitable.

This is also more Classic 'But you use cars HAH HAH gottem! logic'
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
................................................    I was told that the mainland metropolitan dams would never be full again.    .............................................

Melbourne's water storages haven't been above 80% since 1996.
kitchgp
Melbourne hasn't added a new dam since 1984 with the massive Thompson project. Thompson got as low as 16% in 2009 but the over-arching problem you haven't mentioned is the fact that Melbourne has added something like 2 million people since the construction of the the last dam. Victoria's water infrastructure was mostly built under Bolte and Hamer and was just fine when Melbourne was relatively small - it isn't fit for purpose any longer, that's the basic problem.

IN terms of carbon emissions building that enormous desal plant was a stupid thing to do - that and the fact that ultimately it wasn't needed despite rapid population growth. I blame alarmists like Tim Flannery for talking state governments into doing that - nearly every other mainland capital splashed out on desal plants only to find they weren't actually required.

It's high time we all considered the adverse impact on our environment that the extra 300,000+ people are year are having. It's worse in Adelaide where there are proposals to move us to 2 million residents in the next 20 years without any clue about where the water will come from (let alone the jobs).
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
So one person from the coal industry was there and the CFMEU wasn't, surely a clear indication that both these unions do not support this protest.

The students protesting need to lead by example.
- Start walking/riding/PT to school like their parents do
- Get off devices that consume energy
- Turn the A/C off in the class room and open windows
- If its cold, put something on rather than use the heater
- Stop buying something new just because a new version came out
etc

As for those adults, usually left leaning who are promoting alternatives to coal such as pumped hydro and even nuclear fission.
- Are these the same adults who protested the Franklin Dam?
- Are these the same adults who protested Lake Pedder?
- Are these the same adults who protested Mary River Dam?
- Are these the same adults who protested Shoal Haven Dam?
- Are these the same adults who protested Woftein Dam (Qld)?
- Would these be the same adults who would protest the Snowy scheme until the cows came home if proposed today?
- Are these the same adults who have protested anything nuclear including Lucus Heights reactor replacement for 40 years?
- Are these the same adults who often protest solar and wind farm proposals?
- Are these the same adults who blame the rest of the country for getting it wrong at the last election rather than looking at the mirror or their hero?
RTT_Rules
33 Unions backed it irrc, And they had speakers from one involved in the Coal supply chain industry, though I forget what one it was. The CMFEU would never back anything like this, lol iirc they campaigned in Victoria for the state government to open more old growth forest for logging. VERY ENVIRONMENTALLY AWARE!

You Should have seen how packed the trains were at parliament and flinders street, when possible people do use PT.  Again RTT, you're Stereotyping the modern day youth just to put a negative spin on this.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Every one should want a nicer planet to live on, it baffles me how people still back coal and co despite that it will eventually all run out, changing to renewables in my view is inevitable.
Dangersdan707
What's the matter with the planet right now? I keep pleading for one of you to give me actual solid indisputable evidence and not one of you can give me a single thing. And don't say 'bleaching of the reef' - that's probably due to agricultural activity in QLD, not a changing climate.

Anyway we just had an election earlier this year discussing these very issues (remember?), the party that had the most aggressive stance towards carbon emissions lost resoundingly. People in regional QLD in particular worry that their kids will end up on the dole, the taming of the imaginary carbon fairy isn't on their radar like it is in the cossetted enclaves of Sydney and Melbourne.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
As a young Rural Australian this annoying when you have smeg all Public transport that's so infrequent its essentially non existent. Its still a right of passage and a culture thing. I'm pretty sure there's not much PT in rural SA. Its also nearly the end of year for them and so most of them really have not much choice.

Transport emissions can be lowered through a variety of ways, expansion of PT, Subsidisation of Rail freight, Mass production of electric cars. We Need a planned Just Transition, in this country to limit the amount of economic harm it may cause, something both major parties here have not done. There is also the Culture in this nation and the west that needs to change after all since the 1950s we have been right on cars as a part of out culture and individualism.

Macron is a idiot, cutting Polluting corporations taxes while raising the common mans price of living. Neo-Liberal Capitalism 101 hey? We are going to need to change to survive in this country and to protect the planet. Every one should want a nicer planet to live on, it baffles me how people still back coal and co despite that it will eventually all run out, changing to renewables in my view is inevitable.

This is also more Classic 'But you use cars HAH HAH gottem! logic'
Dangersdan707
Maybe your not old enough to remember being taught at school in the 70's and 80's that the world would run out of oil and gas by about now and that coal wasn't much longer. Fact is there is enough coal in the world to support humanity for a few centuries to come, likely more. So while its finite, no one is worried about that far into the future and past predictions were clearly wrong. She we mine it all, no!

As stated before, most people are not willing to turn their backs on something that supported us this far over night because others say so. Subsidies are certainly not the answer to solving the carbon problem because all it does is shift the cost from consumer to taxpayer.

EV's are being built at a rate the industry supply chain and development can support, it is difficult to go faster even if the average Joe could afford one. Tesla's owned 2022 (if I recall) expected demand for Lithium exceeds the world production of I think it was 2015.

There is a planned transition although the plans have come in too late and basically fixing more ambitious but wrong from the start plans such as those in SA push away from coal and gas towards wind and solar. Again politicians being lead by extremists without a touch of reality.  

The car culture took us away from the horse and as the west has a larger portion of the population living in rural communities and farms that other developed cultures, abandoning the car is not going to happen. The more extreme Env movement is quietly pulling back from its support EV's for this reason as they don't believe in people still driving personal transport, especially with a 0-100km/h time of 2.5 sec.

Macron, is a President in charge of a country that has failed to balance its budget for decades and a workforce that believes in being subsidised for everything and work is an option not a necessity and soon as it doesn't go your way you go on violent and damaging protests.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
33 Unions backed it irrc, And they had speakers from one involved in the Coal supply chain industry, though I forget what one it was. The CMFEU would never back anything like this, lol iirc they campaigned in Victoria for the state government to open more old growth forest for logging. VERY ENVIRONMENTALLY AWARE!

You Should have seen how packed the trains were at parliament and flinders street, when possible people do use PT.  Again RTT, you're Stereotyping the modern day youth just to put a negative spin on this.
Dangersdan707
So in my stereotyping where was I wrong?

As for how packed the trains were, so what? You put 100,000 etc people in the city, they have to get there somehow. Your in Melbourne after all, PT is the more popular form of transport to the city.

I'm sure if I don't get all goose bumpy over this whole pointless event. The event may feel to some like sitting around a campfire singing "Kumbaya" or feeling empowered after attending Tony Robbin's event, but we had a vote on most of this 4 months ago and I believe the tribe has more than spoken (more of a smeg slap). Again we all know the those in the PRV blame the rest of the country for getting it wrong, but alas, the tribe has spoken. Now if the Elected Govt chooses to ignore the growing env sentiment in the community with rational and planned options to take the country forward to a greener future, then you can have your say again in 2022.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
33 Unions backed it irrc, And they had speakers from one involved in the Coal supply chain industry, though I forget what one it was. The CMFEU would never back anything like this, lol iirc they campaigned in Victoria for the state government to open more old growth forest for logging. VERY ENVIRONMENTALLY AWARE!

You Should have seen how packed the trains were at parliament and flinders street, when possible people do use PT.  Again RTT, you're Stereotyping the modern day youth just to put a negative spin on this.
Dangersdan707
So in my stereotyping where was I wrong?

As for how packed the trains were, so what? You put 100,000 etc people in the city, they have to get there somehow. Your in Melbourne after all, PT is the more popular form of transport to the city.

I'm sure if I don't get all goose bumpy over this whole pointless event. The event may feel to some like sitting around a campfire singing "Kumbaya" or feeling empowered after attending Tony Robbin's event, but we had a vote on most of this 4 months ago and I believe the tribe has more than spoken (more of a smeg slap). Again we all know the those in the PRV blame the rest of the country for getting it wrong, but alas, the tribe has spoken. Now if the Elected Govt chooses to ignore the growing env sentiment in the community with rational and planned options to take the country forward to a greener future, then you can have your say again in 2022.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

………………..

designed to serve a city of 5 million people, based on rainfall and water use at the time it was proposed in 1968.
…………………………………………………..
Thompson Reservoir, Melbourne Water website

With reduced catchment runoff plus the threat from bushfires (the season now being a month longer at each end), any new dam is highly problematical.

The area of Victoria damaged in the 2003 bushfires:
https://www.epa.vic.gov.au/~/media/Publications/bushfire.pdf

The Thompson Reservoir threat from 2006 bushfires:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2006-12-14/vic-bushfire-threatens-homes-at-licola/2153780

The Thompson Reservoir threat from 2019 bushfires:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-01/thomson-dam-fire-threaten-melbourne-water-supply-desalination/10770718

The desal plant is supplying water at the moment.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-22/the-generation-who-wont-be-grandparents/11532734
Total Fertility Rate (TFR) dropped to 1.7, that's 1.7 kids per woman. Replacement rate is 2.1, slightly high than 2.0 to offset children who die before reproduction.

When it dropped to 1.75 previously in early 2000's with no signs of it slowly down, JH introduced the baby bonus to try and keep the age demographic flat, not looking like a inverted pyramid. The TFR rose to 2.0 prior to the GFC and the Baby Bonus being canned. Personally I believe the baby bonus should be linked to a woman's income prior to getting pregnant, however the alternative we must import people, which we are, but too fast in recent years.

Longer term I think the govt needs to take the approach the the population growth is slowed until say around 30m by 2030 where going forward the population is kept at zero growth. At this number we need around 365,000 live births a year to maintain the population (TFR = 2.0), but say with a TFR of 1.2 (typical European number) which enables the import of 150,000 per year of migrants, thus enabling fresh blood into the system as well meet obligation dealing with refugees + replace anyone who permanently leaves, so likely closer to 200,000 per year of migrants.

Now considering most major economies are in population decline due to below replacement birth rates and only sustained or growing through immigration and this issue is growing with most eastern block countries populations in retreat, then by 2030 Australia may not be the target for immigration it is today. Its expected Japan and others to get serious and start rolling out the red carpet for suitable immigrant and for example, Poland is now paying for its people to stay.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE

The desal plant is supplying water at the moment.
kitchgp
The current dam target heights to switch on DESAL are too low, the desal plants in all cities should be just left to run unless the dams are pushing say +90%.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Every one should want a nicer planet to live on, it baffles me how people still back coal and co despite that it will eventually all run out, changing to renewables in my view is inevitable.
What's the matter with the planet right now? I keep pleading for one of you to give me actual solid indisputable evidence and not one of you can give me a single thing. And don't say 'bleaching of the reef' - that's probably due to agricultural activity in QLD, not a changing climate.

Anyway we just had an election earlier this year discussing these very issues (remember?), the party that had the most aggressive stance towards carbon emissions lost resoundingly. People in regional QLD in particular worry that their kids will end up on the dole, the taming of the imaginary carbon fairy isn't on their radar like it is in the cossetted enclaves of Sydney and Melbourne.
don_dunstan
Tempetures are hotter, we are getting more and more droughts, and of course the sea levels is rising (I still haven't heard your comment on Nomo's Pacific island). and yet you use probably, not certainly. Are you against lowering pollution? or do you wish to suffocate in your own fumes, I'm guessing economics blind you.

Call me naive but I Believe that we need a strong government planned transition to limit economic harm as I've said before, I'm not saying don't give the people work don, so don't try that. Tough on climate is a exaggeration, they just bend to the corrupt unions and not taking a side on Adani claiming to the melbournians that its not happening while telling the Queenslanders that its going ahead, get real labor was not tough on climate like you paint them to be.
Crossetted enclaves in your home city too and across the country? 300k nationwide sure are enclaves and as a rural person who traveled to Melbourne I feel disgusted by your titanic generalisation.
Is it ignorance or ideology that blinds you more?
and I guess the world is flat and Antarctica isn't melting.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
33 Unions backed it irrc, And they had speakers from one involved in the Coal supply chain industry, though I forget what one it was. The CMFEU would never back anything like this, lol iirc they campaigned in Victoria for the state government to open more old growth forest for logging. VERY ENVIRONMENTALLY AWARE!

You Should have seen how packed the trains were at parliament and flinders street, when possible people do use PT.  Again RTT, you're Stereotyping the modern day youth just to put a negative spin on this.
So in my stereotyping where was I wrong?

As for how packed the trains were, so what? You put 100,000 etc people in the city, they have to get there somehow. Your in Melbourne after all, PT is the more popular form of transport to the city.

I'm sure if I don't get all goose bumpy over this whole pointless event. The event may feel to some like sitting around a campfire singing "Kumbaya" or feeling empowered after attending Tony Robbin's event, but we had a vote on most of this 4 months ago and I believe the tribe has more than spoken (more of a smeg slap). Again we all know the those in the PRV blame the rest of the country for getting it wrong, but alas, the tribe has spoken. Now if the Elected Govt chooses to ignore the growing env sentiment in the community with rational and planned options to take the country forward to a greener future, then you can have your say again in 2022.
RTT_Rules
So much so you posted it twice.
In every bloody way, I could for one claim you're a LNP fossil sitting in Dubai out of the loop, enjoying your privileged lifestyle?
and also why Stereotype as a tactic to undermine your opposition. We can talk about the up-cycling/hipster culture vs fast culture para dimes that exist in the modern world.

I highly doubt anything will change with the LNP-Labor duopoly we have here at the next election cycle, they will both keep lying and deceitfully stabbing one another to bits. The Event (s) them selfs were fine and dandy with a great atmosphere and the best chant of the modern age 'ScoMo's a smeghead'. The Tribe will decide again, alas with the illusion of choice
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
As a young Rural Australian this annoying when you have smeg all Public transport that's so infrequent its essentially non existent. Its still a right of passage and a culture thing. I'm pretty sure there's not much PT in rural SA. Its also nearly the end of year for them and so most of them really have not much choice.

Transport emissions can be lowered through a variety of ways, expansion of PT, Subsidisation of Rail freight, Mass production of electric cars. We Need a planned Just Transition, in this country to limit the amount of economic harm it may cause, something both major parties here have not done. There is also the Culture in this nation and the west that needs to change after all since the 1950s we have been right on cars as a part of out culture and individualism.

Macron is a idiot, cutting Polluting corporations taxes while raising the common mans price of living. Neo-Liberal Capitalism 101 hey? We are going to need to change to survive in this country and to protect the planet. Every one should want a nicer planet to live on, it baffles me how people still back coal and co despite that it will eventually all run out, changing to renewables in my view is inevitable.

This is also more Classic 'But you use cars HAH HAH gottem! logic'
Maybe your not old enough to remember being taught at school in the 70's and 80's that the world would run out of oil and gas by about now and that coal wasn't much longer. Fact is there is enough coal in the world to support humanity for a few centuries to come, likely more. So while its finite, no one is worried about that far into the future and past predictions were clearly wrong. She we mine it all, no!

As stated before, most people are not willing to turn their backs on something that supported us this far over night because others say so. Subsidies are certainly not the answer to solving the carbon problem because all it does is shift the cost from consumer to taxpayer.

EV's are being built at a rate the industry supply chain and development can support, it is difficult to go faster even if the average Joe could afford one. Tesla's owned 2022 (if I recall) expected demand for Lithium exceeds the world production of I think it was 2015.

There is a planned transition although the plans have come in too late and basically fixing more ambitious but wrong from the start plans such as those in SA push away from coal and gas towards wind and solar. Again politicians being lead by extremists without a touch of reality.  

The car culture took us away from the horse and as the west has a larger portion of the population living in rural communities and farms that other developed cultures, abandoning the car is not going to happen. The more extreme Env movement is quietly pulling back from its support EV's for this reason as they don't believe in people still driving personal transport, especially with a 0-100km/h time of 2.5 sec.

Macron, is a President in charge of a country that has failed to balance its budget for decades and a workforce that believes in being subsidised for everything and work is an option not a necessity and soon as it doesn't go your way you go on violent and damaging protests.
RTT_Rules
perhaps I am, but we are going to need to phase it all out eventually and that is an undeniable truth we have yet to come to terms with, we don't know when but it will. When I said government plan I also implied I'm Open to a planned economy. People are scared, fear is breed by either side in this debacle and we have a massively ineffective government(s) on this issue.

Like, I'm not against removing all Fossil fuels, largely only from energy, transport and as much industry as possible. We'll still be needing the black rock to make steel when/if we go green. If I remember right, Car ownership in suburbia and Urban areas has declined in recent years, but yes the car is king. Most people in the west live in urban areas, that's a fact not rural.


The Rest of your comment is peak neo-liberalism, I can't be bothered debating French politics with you as that's off topic. The Yellow vest movement iirc is pro-climate change and green, its just thinks the government should be taxing the rich (who's taxes they lowered) instead of a large petrol tax on everyone else!
Apologies for this rambling mess in retrospective.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
So much so you posted it twice.
In every bloody way, I could for one claim you're a LNP fossil sitting in Dubai out of the loop, enjoying your privileged lifestyle?
and also why Stereotype as a tactic to undermine your opposition. We can talk about the up-cycling/hipster culture vs fast culture para dimes that exist in the modern world.

I highly doubt anything will change with the LNP-Labor duopoly we have here at the next election cycle, they will both keep lying and deceitfully stabbing one another to bits. The Event (s) them selfs were fine and dandy with a great atmosphere and the best chant of the modern age 'ScoMo's a smeghead'. The Tribe will decide again, alas with the illusion of choice
Dangersdan707
LNP fossil sitting in Dubai living a privileged lifestyle.

So tell me genius, what is so more privileged about my lifestyle than doing the same job back in Oz?

Out of touch, I doubt it. Probably more in touch with the bigger picture.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
perhaps I am, but we are going to need to phase it all out eventually and that is an undeniable truth we have yet to come to terms with, we don't know when but it will. When I said government plan I also implied I'm Open to a planned economy. People are scared, fear is breed by either side in this debacle and we have a massively ineffective government(s) on this issue.

Like, I'm not against removing all Fossil fuels, largely only from energy, transport and as much industry as possible. We'll still be needing the black rock to make steel when/if we go green. If I remember right, Car ownership in suburbia and Urban areas has declined in recent years, but yes the car is king. Most people in the west live in urban areas, that's a fact not rural.


The Rest of your comment is peak neo-liberalism, I can't be bothered debating French politics with you as that's off topic. The Yellow vest movement iirc is pro-climate change and green, its just thinks the government should be taxing the rich (who's taxes they lowered) instead of a large petrol tax on everyone else!
Apologies for this rambling mess in retrospective.
Dangersdan707
If you haven't noticed the decline of coal has already started. Australia is burning less than I think it was the 2007 peak and the forecast is to continue to reduce over the next 25 years. OS, depending on country and industry the decline has started, however there is still growth in the overall industry due to India and China.

Trump sold himself as friendly to coal, but coal power electricity is in decline by 2%pa.

Change is in the wind, just not to your misguided agenda as for change to happen there must be an alternative for which for SE Australia the choices are very limited. I thought everyone was fully aware and come to terms we are reducing our dependency on coal per capita (not that its been done well), ok so now you know, everyone does know.

Car ownership is not in decline in suburbia, its in decline in the inner city built up areas where high density, limited car spaces, improved and ready access to PT and immigrants that come from non-car culture backgrounds. Go to Aussie suburbia and there is a 4x4 in every driveway, often 2.

You started to waffle on (incorrectly) about the French, without looking it up do you even know what the French taxation system is and before you do, the wealthy do pay more tax. As the wealthy in France are the only ones who can afford to drive large cars and long distances, the petrol tax is very much aimed at those more affluent.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
I had 18mm last night in my veggie garden - must be climate change.

I'd believe in the mythical magical climate change beast if scientists who say 'the science is settled' could get one single thing right. They haven't..
While I do believe in humanity's impact on climate and longterm continuing to do what we are doing is not the right thing. The forecasts have been so wrong in the past that how much faith do we place on the future forecasts?
RTT_Rules
Galileo was right, who'd be a scientist!

Given BOM with all its technology and data can’t accurately predict the weather in 8 days time, forecasting decades ahead isn’t going to be straightforward.  It doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of scientific research supports the reality of climate change. It doesn’t change the fact that human activities have accelerated the volume of greenhouse gases (not just CO2) added to the atmosphere. Science isn't telling us to fix it, that's up to us.

Then again the opposition isn't about the science. As always it’s the reality of politics; maintaining the status quo, underwritten by greed. Just ask Galileo.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
...

The desal plant is supplying water at the moment.
kitchgp
Hooray - only @ at an overall cost of something like $35 billion to the VIC taxpayers, not to mention the actual cost of buying the water.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Tempetures are hotter, we are getting more and more droughts, and of course the sea levels is rising (I still haven't heard your comment on Nomo's Pacific island). and yet you use probably, not certainly. Are you against lowering pollution? or do you wish to suffocate in your own fumes, I'm guessing economics blind you.
Dangersdan707
Blah blah blah. The Maldives? The Pacific nations supposed to be underwater by now? Must be a different part of the ocean that doesn't have the Global Warming.
Call me naive but I Believe that we need a strong government planned transition to limit economic harm as I've said before, I'm not saying don't give the people work don, so don't try that. Tough on climate is a exaggeration, they just bend to the corrupt unions and not taking a side on Adani claiming to the melbournians that its not happening while telling the Queenslanders that its going ahead, get real labor was not tough on climate like you paint them to be. Crossetted enclaves in your home city too and across the country? 300k nationwide sure are enclaves and as a rural person who traveled to Melbourne I feel disgusted by your titanic generalisation. Is it ignorance or ideology that blinds you more? and I guess the world is flat and Antarctica isn't melting.
Dangersdan707
ANY evidence for any of the above or just blind conjecture as usual? Adani has everything to do with providing Central Queensland with jobs and not much to do with bourgeoisie central Melbourne at all... just as you alluded.

It's all about jobs - geddit?
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
As for those adults, usually left leaning who are promoting alternatives to coal such as pumped hydro and even nuclear fission.
- Are these the same adults who protested the Franklin Dam?
- Are these the same adults who protested Lake Pedder?
- Are these the same adults who protested Mary River Dam?
- Are these the same adults who protested Shoal Haven Dam?
- Are these the same adults who protested Woftein Dam (Qld)?

BTW, the wako left from Vic are at it again, yesterday I stumbled on a website protesting against Snowy 2.0, among other unsupported claims it would increase coal power generation.
RTT_Rules
(1) It has to rain first, mate.

(2) Stumbled? That implies that you carried out a search for something different. Specifically, what was it? And, did you find it? And, once there, did it provide you with the gratification that you were so desperately seeking by reinforcing your prejudices?
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
ANY evidence for any of the above or just blind conjecture as usual? Adani has everything to do with providing Central Queensland with jobs and not much to do with bourgeoisie central Melbourne at all... just as you alluded.

It's all about jobs - geddit?
don_dunstan
Typical short-termism.

Adani etc. enables, what, 3000 jobs? It and the others are large enough to affect the global price of coal.

Many pits, particularly in the Hunter region will then not be able to compete. 3000 job losses in that region will barely be the start of the rot.

Well done!
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
- Are these the same adults who protested Woftein Dam (Qld)?
RTT_Rules
I don't know what this is? Perhaps you meant the Wolffdene Dam? For goodness sake Shane make an effort! And what on earth is a wako?

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