Regional Rail Revival - Geelong / Warrnambool Line Projects

 
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Some derails now emerging on the proposed Stabling Project for V/Line at Waurn Ponds.









That is a lot of tracks but the design is such any access blocked by a train or derailment will render the balloon track inaccessible.


Is it me or are these photos not displaying properly?

Neil
ngarner
Link to the document...

https://www.planning.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0024/427920/20190612-Transport-Impact-Assessment.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3XnDrThMaCOIGX3WxwMxgU5S_tKKqlQzcekIu0Rxp1Jt79nFp-cN9ZNvY

Lockie

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  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction

https://www.planning.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0024/427920/20190612-Transport-Impact-Assessment.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3XnDrThMaCOIGX3WxwMxgU5S_tKKqlQzcekIu0Rxp1Jt79nFp-cN9ZNvY

Lockie
Lockie91
Great work Lockie, thanks, I looked for it earlier but couldn't find it.

I note that the Stage 2 design is "indicative" and may have been someone just drawing lines to make it look like a rail facility.

So no need to panic about the baloon loop or lack thereof just yet!

BG
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner


https://www.planning.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0024/427920/20190612-Transport-Impact-Assessment.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3XnDrThMaCOIGX3WxwMxgU5S_tKKqlQzcekIu0Rxp1Jt79nFp-cN9ZNvY

LockieGreat work Lockie, thanks, I looked for it earlier but couldn't find it.

I note that the Stage 2 design is "indicative" and may have been someone just drawing lines to make it look like a rail facility.

So no need to panic about the baloon loop or lack thereof just yet!

BG
BrentonGolding
Thanks BG, The thanks go to Marcus Wong who originally shared this yesterday and where I assume Bevans got these pictures from.

I don't think stage two is that far down the track when you think about the Geelong Fast Rail Project. It is possible that Geelong Council is pushing for development of the Geelong Yards. Bombardier could also go out to WP with a new purpose built facility. With a mention of 26 roads, Maintenance and Bio Wash facilities sounds like they will service a new dedicated feet (electric?) for Geelong.

Victrack get the benefit of selling off a triangle of land in the centre of Geelong.

Speaking of said project, it needs to be thought of as an interurban connection. It is essentially a commuter railway as it works its way though Geelong to WP and one day Torquay. The project should be as much about connecting suburbs within the Geelong area as well as a fast connection to the Melbourne CBD.

A super fast train to Geelong and a goat track to WP will be a colossal failure of a project and investment.

Lockie
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The photos came from the document but interestingly Boral are potentially expanding their quarry next to the proposed facility at WP and they have rail access any chance of some rail use here?
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

……………………………………

So no need to panic about the baloon loop or lack thereof just yet!
BrentonGolding

Purely for clarification, nobody is particularly concerned whether the facility actually has a balloon track or not. The text associated with the original posting implied that the diagrams showed a loop, which doesn’t appear to be the case, viz
“That is a lot of tracks but the design is such any access blocked by a train or derailment will render the balloon track inaccessible.”
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
……………………………………

So no need to panic about the baloon loop or lack thereof just yet!

Purely for clarification, nobody is particularly concerned whether the facility actually has a balloon track or not. The text associated with the original posting implied that the diagrams showed a loop, which doesn’t appear to be the case, viz
“That is a lot of tracks but the design is such any access blocked by a train or derailment will render the balloon track inaccessible.”
kitchgp
I know, right! (Purely for clarification, that means it was a joke not a serious comment)
  NimbleJack Locomotive Fireman

The big issue with storing rolling stock beyond Geelong, of course, is that if something happens to South Geelong tunnel - single-track, ancient and crumbling - you've lost a significant portion of your fleet.

Storage at Waurn Ponds would represent a major gamble.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The big issue with storing rolling stock beyond Geelong, of course, is that if something happens to South Geelong tunnel - single-track, ancient and crumbling - you've lost a significant portion of your fleet.

Storage at Waurn Ponds would represent a major gamble.
NimbleJack

And there is only a single track at the present time.  Could be another V/Line project with shaky foundations.  There are a lot of planned roads will there really be that much rolling stock to park?
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

The big issue with storing rolling stock beyond Geelong, of course, is that if something happens to South Geelong tunnel - single-track, ancient and crumbling - you've lost a significant portion of your fleet.

Storage at Waurn Ponds would represent a major gamble.

And there is only a single track at the present time.  Could be another V/Line project with shaky foundations.  There are a lot of planned roads will there really be that much rolling stock to park?
bevans
Stage two is duplication to South Geelong. An additional tunnel could be bored next to the existing one, similar to what was done at Rossana. The tunnel its self is 400m long, not a huge distance. See if it ever comes about or if V/line is happy to have 400m of single track to deal with.

As for planned roads, if Geelong is to become a proper interurban service than a new electric fleet is required. 26 roads and a maintenance facility sounds about right.

Lockie
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
Storage at Waurn Ponds would represent a major gamble.[/quote]
And there is only a single track at the present time.  Could be another V/Line project with shaky foundations.  There are a lot of planned roads will there really be that much rolling stock to park?[/quote]Stage two is duplication to South Geelong. An additional tunnel could be bored next to the existing one, similar to what was done at Rossana. The tunnel its self is 400m long, not a huge distance. See if it ever comes about or if V/line is happy to have 400m of single track to deal with.

As for planned roads, if Geelong is to become a proper interurban service than a new electric fleet is required. 26 roads and a maintenance facility sounds about right.

Lockie[/quote]

And a potential stage 3, that the feds are supposed to be interested in funding, is a second tunnel as Lockie mentioned

Neil
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Honestly for the Geelong tunnel, close it for 6 months and tunnel through it with a TBM to make it big enough for two tracks. The tunnel is centred, there's not that much room on either side.
  Tony M. Locomotive Fireman


I don't think stage two is that far down the track when you think about the Geelong Fast Rail Project. It is possible that Geelong Council is pushing for development of the Geelong Yards. Bombardier could also go out to WP with a new purpose built facility. With a mention of 26 roads, Maintenance and Bio Wash facilities sounds like they will service a new dedicated feet (electric?) for Geelong.

Victrack get the benefit of selling off a triangle of land in the centre of Geelong.
Lockie9

The trouble with this is that the triangle of land they'd be selling off isn't in the centre of Geelong - it's on Pakington Street in Geelong West. Considering there's already a couple of large vacant blocks actually in the middle of Geelong with high-rises planned that they can't get started on, it's unlikely the developers are lining up for a former rail depot on the quiet end of a local shopping strip. Even putting a supermarket there would be iffy considering there's a new one practically across the road.

That's not to say the council don't have big plans, but the Geelong council are a lot better at plans than they are at seeing them through. And with the single tunnel to South Geelong likely to stay that way for a fair while yet, I doubt the Geelong Yards will be going anywhere in the short-to-medium future.
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
Premier's press release today saying that work is starting on the Warrnambool upgrade with signal upgrades beginning and work on the Boorcan loop, at 2.2km long, to start in a few weeks. The 12 level crossing upgrades have been finished in the last week, as well.

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/major-construction-begins-warrnambool-line-upgrade

Neil
  Carnot Minister for Railways

An interesting discussion in State Parliament on changes to the Transport Act today.  Lib MP Roma Britnell is concerned about changes to laws which would close private level crossings (i.e. on farm land) associated with the upgrade.

I suspect the bill will get passed.
  Peter Spyker Train Controller

So what happened to the part of this project that was meant to start planning a railway line to Torquay?

They seem to have gone very quiet on that, even though it was mentioned in the media when the $1.7 billion of funding for the project was announced, only two years ago:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-16/victoria-inland-rail-deal-unlocks-money-for-regional-rail/9554440
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Good pickup

So the feds provide the money and the project does not proceed. We have seen this before in Victoria.
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
So what happened to the part of this project that was meant to start planning a railway line to Torquay?

They seem to have gone very quiet on that, even though it was mentioned in the media when the $1.7 billion of funding for the project was announced, only two years ago:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-16/victoria-inland-rail-deal-unlocks-money-for-regional-rail/9554440
Peter Spyker
It was reserving the land for the future line and planning was to be undertaken. At no point, IIRC, was the line actually going to be constructed using this money.
Where do you get $1.7 billion from? Stage 1 of the Geelong project was only $160M, stage 2 = $147M from the State and $602 for the Feds. Your total is a bigger amount than the whole of both the Geelong and Warrnambool works combined at $1.25B, before both governments shoved in an additional $260M, although it would be great if your figure was just for the Geelong line. They could duplicate the Geelong tunnel, build the Torquay line and gold plate everything!

Neil
  Peter Spyker Train Controller

So what happened to the part of this project that was meant to start planning a railway line to Torquay?

They seem to have gone very quiet on that, even though it was mentioned in the media when the $1.7 billion of funding for the project was announced, only two years ago:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-16/victoria-inland-rail-deal-unlocks-money-for-regional-rail/9554440
It was reserving the land for the future line and planning was to be undertaken. At no point, IIRC, was the line actually going to be constructed using this money.
Where do you get $1.7 billion from? Stage 1 of the Geelong project was only $160M, stage 2 = $147M from the State and $602 for the Feds. Your total is a bigger amount than the whole of both the Geelong and Warrnambool works combined at $1.25B, before both governments shoved in an additional $260M, although it would be great if your figure was just for the Geelong line. They could duplicate the Geelong tunnel, build the Torquay line and gold plate everything!

Neil
ngarner

The figure came from the ABC report that I linked to - it said that $1.7 billion had been allocated to the Regional Rail Revival project. Yep, I knew they weren't going to actually build it with that, but even so, I really haven't heard much about Torquay since then.
  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
So what happened to the part of this project that was meant to start planning a railway line to Torquay?
They seem to have gone very quiet on that, even though it was mentioned in the media when the $1.7 billion of funding for the project was announced, only two years ago:


The figure came from the ABC report that I linked to - it said that $1.7 billion had been allocated to the Regional Rail Revival project. Yep, I knew they weren't going to actually build it with that, but even so, I really haven't heard much about Torquay since then.
Peter Spyker
And you selectively took that $1.7 billion, which was for the whole of the Regional Rail Revival Project, and not a Geelong/Warrnambool Line Projects that this thread is discussing, and you misleadingly questioned where the money for a Torquay Line had gone, implying that it was $1.7 billion.

As Neil stated in his reply, the money that was allocated towards the Torquay Line was to set aside land for the easement.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner
  Jordy33 Locomotive Fireman

Fast rail to Geelong has funding for stage 1 ($4B total, $2B from state and feds each)

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/express-track-to-slash-train-travel-time-between-melbourne-and-geelong/news-story/d103119dab00fe99b16d5d704ab0ad30
John.Z
Hi John, it seems to be behind a paywall - would you mind giving us a summary?
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Hi John, it seems to be behind a paywall - would you mind giving us a summary?
Jordy33
No worries

Train trips between Melbourne and Geelong will finally be slashed to less than an hour, as the state government matches Scott Morrison’s $2bn commitment for the fast rail overhaul. The dream of a quicker commute between the two cities will become a reality through the construction of an express track between Werribee and Laverton that will wipe up to 23 minutes off travel times. Once the project is complete, the Herald Sun can reveal commuters will spend 50 minutes travelling between Melbourne and Geelong, with future upgrades aimed to cut the journey to just 40 minutes.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Premier Daniel Andrews on Saturday will announce the $4bn first stage of the Geelong fast rail project, with construction set to begin in 2023. The federal government had previously committed $2bn towards fast rail in the region, with Victoria to match the offer in Tuesday’s state budget. When the first stage is completed, most Geelong trains will run through Werribee and Newport, rather than Wyndham Vale, along a path 8km shorter than the existing route. These trains will travel along the newly built dedicated express track between Werribee and Laverton to allow for faster speeds and less congestion on the railway.

Some services will continue to run through the current route, giving Geelong commuters more options to access jobs centres and the airport rail connection at Sunshine. The change will also better connect Melbourne’s western booming suburbs and free up space for more services in the area. Premier Daniel Andrews said the project would be historic for Victoria. “This project has been talked about for a long time, its key to our recovery and this design means it will benefit all Victorians,” he said. “As we continue our recovery, we need a long-term plan. We need a pipeline of jobs for Victorians looking for work now, and for those who will need jobs in the future. We said we’d deliver this project, and we’re keeping our promise.”

Mr Morrison said Geelong was expected to grow by nearly 50 per cent over the next three decades. “We want commuters to spend less time travelling and more time with loved ones and the faster rail corridor provides a better transport link for urban and regional communities,” he said. Of Geelong residents who work in inner Melbourne, 63 per cent commute to their job by train.
  steve195 Train Controller

Not sure why the politicians are spruiking very modest travel time savings, rather than the key benefit of sending some Geelong trains via Werribee, which is clearly the capacity that will be freed up on RRL for extra services to the booming outer west.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

I agree, especially Warrnambool trains don't stop between Geelong and Footscray.
  Peter Spyker Train Controller

So what happened to the part of this project that was meant to start planning a railway line to Torquay?
They seem to have gone very quiet on that, even though it was mentioned in the media when the $1.7 billion of funding for the project was announced, only two years ago:


The figure came from the ABC report that I linked to - it said that $1.7 billion had been allocated to the Regional Rail Revival project. Yep, I knew they weren't going to actually build it with that, but even so, I really haven't heard much about Torquay since then.
And you selectively took that $1.7 billion, which was for the whole of the Regional Rail Revival Project, and not a Geelong/Warrnambool Line Projects that this thread is discussing, and you misleadingly questioned where the money for a Torquay Line had gone, implying that it was $1.7 billion.

As Neil stated in his reply, the money that was allocated towards the Torquay Line was to set aside land for the easement.
Jack Le Lievre

Dude, I'm not here for an argument. I asked a question about what happened to the part of the project that involved a line to Torquay. I don't give a bugger about your political biases or whatever has got up your bum today, I just want to know if they're still working on it.

But hey, go off I guess, if that's what tickles your fancy.

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