The corona virus COVID-19

 
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

I think there are a couple of ways things could be done.
These are a few locations I think could be used:

Christmas Island
Learmouth
Tindal
Yulara
Broome
Sale
Williamstown
Richmond

I'm sure there are other places.  

Somewhere like Broome (perhaps other regional towns?) - other than a lack of hotel space - could be used much as it is done in the cities.  However if/when there is an escape, a town of 10,000 goes into a hard lockdown and aggressive contact tracing, not a state of 10mil.

I would like to see the gvt (or perhaps the States acting in concert) take over passenger flights to and from Aus.  This BS about overbooking flights forcing people to upgrade needs to stop.  No airline can seriously operate a rational for profit business in this environment, and it should be taken over and operated like a public transport service: fixed fares, fixed booking system, the gvt specifies how it it operated and (presumably) QANTAS is contracted to implement it.

As @RTT_Rules has suggested, I think there is also scope to push additional layers of quarantine protection further out beyond our borders.  Hotel quarantine facilities in the country of origin.  To check in, people need to present their ticket and negative COVID test result (if reasonably available?  If not have a testing service in the car park of the facility).  They are then test and spend the first 3 days in quarantine in the country of origin.  Retested after 3 days, then allowed on the flight.  Post flight everyone is tested again.  If everyone on the flight - and the sewage from the plane - are clear, 10 days quarantine in OZ.  If anyone on the flight tests positive, 14 days from time of arrival - and a clear test at the end - for everyone.  Only then are they clear to fly from the Quarantine station.

It's about having a layered defence.  

The advantage of a remote location is no-one at a low or high level can self assess something as "low risk", or an "acceptable risk".  You physically can't have the bus driver taking people from the airport to the quarantine hotel sleeping with their wife who cleans toilets in a nursing home that evening, after they stop off at the BWS on the way home.

The disadvantage is cost, but IMHO that too can be helpful: higher cost means fewer services, and this fewer non-essential services.

The advantage of somewhere like Sale or Williamstown is the security and support infrastructure exists, and it's close enough to a major city to have a hybrid Hotel Quarantine system: 3 days in HQ in country of origin (24hrs on flight), 3 days at the airport, then transfer to city based HQ for the remaining 7-14 days.

I still think the pick of locations is Yulara.  Easy to secure, lots of infrastructure, hotel rooms and accomm for support staff.  

In any case, I think it would be better if we had 2 locations, in the event one fails and becomes contaminated.

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Edit: Note - this is a recovered so I've lost all the quote formatting Sad.  I got the dreaded "Phantom Post"


The number of breaches of HQ is simply too high ATM.Ok, my terminology is off, but my point was the Feds control the international border for bio-security, the states protect their own border and have jurisdiction to do so. ie Ruby Princess F/U was NSW Health screwing up. The feds cannot legally force people to enter the states if the states say no.

The Feds have responsibility for borders and national quarantine.  The constitution is clear on that.  They do it for agricultural pests.  However, for reasons best known to themselves, they have elected not to fulfil that obligation to the satisfaction of all - or indeed any - of the states, who have taken up the slack.

As for the Ruby Princess: clearly borders are a Fed responsibility.  The fact is they elected not to deal with it appropriately, instead they came out with "a grade 16.4 NSW public servant failed to do my job for me.  

That said, NSW gvt's failure to deal with the Fed's failure was no less complete.  

Ultimately resulted in our Hotel Quarantine system which has kept life reasonably normal in most of Australia - except where and when it has failed.

I'll repeat my earlier statement: borders and quarantine are a fed responsibility.  They have chosen to abrogate it.


Once again, moving the HQ out of the major centres is pointless, impractical and will have more issues than it solves.

It's not pointless.  Is a 10 week lockdown of a city like Melbourne more practical?


Your proposed work conditions are extreme and would not be approved. The people leaving still then need to be quarantined before returning home making the whole system impractical.
You are right.  Currently, hospitality workers and security guards enjoy such excellent working conditions now, they'd never accept it, especially with such a powerful union.  I guess our scheme will have to be staffed by back-packers in lieu of picking fruit.  Maybe we could do a bit of Blackbirding.


If someone dies from cross contamination, the govt would be sued. Also reminder we are talking about 1000 - 2000 people PER DAY!
But if there is a 10 week lockdown, the gvt gets off Scot free.


The tent city that would be required to support such a population will need AC in summer and heating in winter.
5mil people locked down for months, or International travellers have to go without Air Conditioning.  Hmmm.  Which is less convenient?  


Meanwhile the use of the hotels helped solve an employment crisis in the industry, so you are pi$$ing that up against the wall. The hotels have all the required facilities.
And of course lockdowns don't have any unemployment implications at all, because everyone can just work from home.

Part of the problem with Hotels is they *don't* have all the facilities required.  They are designed for guests to be serviced by staff, so they need staff to service the rooms.  Those staff tend to be low/under paid casuals, poorly trained, likely to use PT and live in low cost high density housing in out densest populated cities.  They are the risk, as has been shown multiple times, and the cost is (at least) internal Australian border closures and various COVID restrictions.

The "solution" has been not to service rooms by hotel staff, which destroys the employment argument.


Meanwhile you and Vinelander have ignored again the most basic of preventative options, NEG PCR TEST PRIOR TO BOARDING THE F'N PLANE which would eliminate the whole issue. Fortunately today the fed cabinet has finally agreed to this despite the fact the bulk of the rest of the world implemented this months ago.

It should have been mandatory months ago (again, States can't do this, only the feds, so it hasn't happened).  

Some airlines require this already, and AFAIK (not sure how much this extends beyond repatriation flights) this is already occurring.  It's clearly having some impact, as a recent Vic report observed a higher incidence of COVID in flight crews than returning travellers (despite AFAIK QANTAS regularly testing their staff). The issue is that even when PCR testing prior to boarding occurs, multiple people are still testing positive in hotel quarantine.

Pre-flight PCR testing simply isn't enough.
djf01
Previously when we were debated the "who's to blame" regarding Ruby Princess with Valvegear back in May, I looked up all the regulatory and legal on who is responsible for health and border protection and it was very much the states. VG accepted this back then. The NSW govt has accepted full accountability for failing to check and look after the people as they left the ship. So please lets put an end to the Fed input this and move on or pehaps go back to the posts around MAy where I quoted all the relevant links and passages. Before hitting the keyboard ask yourself how many Dr's and Nurses the Fed govt health department employs?

As a one off its doable, but you have a continuous flow of people, now how do you manage this? Its not 1 or 2 flights from Wuhun we are talking about.

Yes, it won't work to get hospitality workers to live away from home for 3mths.

No, the Vic govt will answer to the people at the next election, however I can almost guarantee by then people won't care.


Trying locking Australian's with children and other issues in a tent city with no AC in the middle of the outback summer and then get back to me and see how long it will last. Remember while the border bio security was breeched, many of the Victorian people also failed to follow basic guidelines which allowed the virus to spread out of control long after the population was notified there was a problem and to follow specific guidelines. Surely the example of what would happen in NZ was warning enough. Meanwhile breech's in Adelaide and potentially Brisbane and Sydney are being contained without a 10 week lockdown.

Hotels are the same as a quarantine station, if you manage it poorly, as they have especially in Vic, the virus leaks out. The hotels still need to be serviced, food prepared etc so yes there are jobs, lots.

It would appear the requirement for CV-19 testing wasn't simply state or Fed level. The states could have mandated it for each flight going to their city, or the Feds the problem was they didn't trust the PCR test to be reliable enough, regardless its finally occurred.

Emirates and Etihad require PCR testing for almost every fight sector apart from Australia and NZ. Why the airlines choose not to force their passengers on these two destinations is unknown to me especially after the UAE govt said it would be mandatory for all flights and include transit passengers.

The problem is the bulk of the returning passengers were simply not tested. Testing would have eliminated at least 95% of the risk and the airline crew need to be tested more frequently. Was yesterday that the hotel staff are tested now daily, meanwhile the flight / cabin crew are tested what every 2 weeks?

Moral of the story the state and Fed govts have not taken PCR testing seriously and used the technology that is available. Hell we have two options here,
- PCR which has a 16-24 h turn around time, costs down to around A$60, but can be done faster if you pay more.
- DPI which is a laser blood test (from finger prick) that gives a result in 1min and costs A$20.

The later is prone to false positives and it looks for an immune response to anything, not just CV-19, hardly a bad thing. Having done DPI test now to enter Abu Dhabi where I commute daily multiple times I have yet to have a false positive but others at work have and they just then move into another tent to have a PCR test where the result is provided in 16h and told to go home until the get a result.

Abu Dhabi Emirate also issues compulsory wrist trackers that cannot be removed and are synced to your phone or wifi so that when arriving from abroad from certain countries you self isolate and they track your movements for a few days. The fine for interfering with this is around $10,000 and jail. Seems to work as UAE has 1500 new cases a day on average for months, its stable at this level and we have no lockdowns or quarantine centres anymore.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
The 'plural apostrophe'  is alive and well.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Trust you to cite that repulsive class traitor Keating in order to try and win a point. Keating is the reason why we have such a large underclass of unemployed and marginally-employed people in our society in 2021.
"don_dunstan"
I did it just for you; aren't you pleased?
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Pre-flight PCR testing simply isn't enough.
Previously when we were debated the "who's to blame" regarding Ruby Princess with Valvegear back in May, I looked up all the regulatory and legal on who is responsible for health and border ...
RTT_Rules

Australian Constitution:  Part V, Section 51, item ix
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Trust you to cite that repulsive class traitor Keating in order to try and win a point. Keating is the reason why we have such a large underclass of unemployed and marginally-employed people in our society in 2021.
I did it just for you; aren't you pleased?
Valvegear
Yeah you know just how to get up my goat. Romantic isn't it.

He's not the only past PM I blame for being duplicitous liars. The Iraq war had the opposite effect of unleashing even more problems in a part of the world that was already heaving under strife - Howard should be ashamed of his conduct in green-lighting that terrible Bush decision. We didn't know in 2001 when re-electing him over wind-bag Beasley that we were going to end up involved in a war - he should have consulted the electorate.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Is the relationship between victoria's CHO and Daniel Andrews fracturing?



Perhaps Sutton does not want to buy into the issues he has had with the pressure over the quarantine fiasco spilling over into the working relationship?
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

Meanwhile on
            The bold and the beautiful

Finn and Hope are both left reeling in the wake of Liam and Steffy’s shocking confessions, Brooke’s left in the dark, and Zoe and Paris throw all their cards on the table in a clash like no other.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Meanwhile on
            The bold and the beautiful

Finn and Hope are both left reeling in the wake of Liam and Steffy’s shocking confessions, Brooke’s left in the dark, and Zoe and Paris throw all their cards on the table in a clash like no other.
doyle
This thing is permanent, we need to get used to.

Apparently you can only enter Victoria without 'papers' if you're from a 'green' zone. This crypto-facism is going to be with us forever isn't it...
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

My home is a reverse red zone =
no visitors
no entry
A kingdom if you like

As long as I keep the door closed
life as usual since the bushfires dec/Jan 2019/2020 minimal leaving the house for supplies and doctors appointments walks around my burb and the occasional drives to the regions

My house has never been cleaner and well maintained we keep the garden beautiful

I make and restore furniture I keep busy

Luckily I have married my best friend we have been married since 1989

Nothing surprises any more

"This crypto-facism is going to be with us forever isn't it...
Don
well yes yes it is

Care factor for what goes on politically or socially anymore is NILL
(well almost)

King Doyle of Melton
  ANR Chief Commissioner

After the latest corona outbreak in Brisvegas, Sydney, blah blah, the state premiers need to consider asking the feds to provide remote area processing of returning overseas pax. It is that simple.
  ANR Chief Commissioner

Further to my previous post:

Looks like Mark McGowan has now asked the question about remote quarantine being run by the Commonwealth govt.

The media is describing this request as 'radical'.

Why?

The Commonwealth Govt is responsible for keeping out pests and pestilence.

The latest Brisvegas outbreak is a debacle that keeps being played out every week somewhere in Australia.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
After the latest corona outbreak in Brisvegas, Sydney, blah blah, the state premiers need to consider asking the feds to provide remote area processing of returning overseas pax. It is that simple.
ANR
Facility in rural Queensland town flagged as potential COVID-19 quarantine hub for international travellers - ABC News
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
SBS News: States reject QLD's push for international arrivals to be quarantined in remote camps.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/states-reject-qld-s-push-for-international-arrivals-to-be-quarantined-in-remote-camps
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
King Doyle of Melton    I like that

Now every time I go through Melton I'm going to picture a bloke with flowing red robes with whitish  fluffy borders, a large ornate crown holding  a large golden sceptre  happily ensconced on a large chair.( a few to many larges in there). With a Victa idling in the background. Sounds rather pleasant.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
King Doyle of Melton    I like that

Now every time I go through Melton I'm going to picture a bloke with flowing red robes with whitish  fluffy borders, a large ornate crown holding  a large golden sceptre  happily ensconced on a large chair.( a few to many larges in there). With a Victa idling in the background. Sounds rather pleasant.
"wobert"
To hell with all that; where are the King's princesses, hand maidens et al?
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
A spare concubine or two, you naughty man. Like your style
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
There have now been over 2 Million deaths worldwide due to the COVID-19 Pandemic, although the true toll may well be way more than that, deaths also seem to be increasing globally, not decreasing.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
King Doyle of Melton    I like that

Now every time I go through Melton I'm going to picture a bloke with flowing red robes with whitish  fluffy borders, a large ornate crown holding  a large golden sceptre  happily ensconced on a large chair.( a few to many larges in there). With a Victa idling in the background. Sounds rather pleasant.
To hell with all that; where are the King's princesses, hand maidens et al?
Valvegear
Stuck in lock-down...
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

Yeah but it is pleasant coffee each morning on the back patio watching the birds, filling our day with chats and short walks lunch then light exercise afternoon tea more relaxing cooking dinner together then settling back in to the chesterfield maybe watching a movie or listening to the radio

Have had a year to practice isolation all is good thus far comfortable and content

I'm thankful that the five princess' and the prince have moved on to their own estates
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

Tennis anyone
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Tennis anyone
doyle
Victorians not welcome back from NSW but it's okay to fly a plane load of tennis officials and players directly from the United States... oops, one had COVID19.

I guess Dan is using the argument that they need the tennis to break the rules of quarantine to make people feel normal again... but then forgets that its him doing the oppressing.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Tennis anyone
Victorians not welcome back from NSW but it's okay to fly a plane load of tennis officials and players directly from the United States... oops, one had COVID19.

I guess Dan is using the argument that they need the tennis to break the rules of quarantine to make people feel normal again... but then forgets that its him doing the oppressing.
don_dunstan
Another Don idiotic comment.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Tennis anyone
Victorians not welcome back from NSW but it's okay to fly a plane load of tennis officials and players directly from the United States... oops, one had COVID19.

I guess Dan is using the argument that they need the tennis to break the rules of quarantine to make people feel normal again... but then forgets that its him doing the oppressing.
Another Don idiotic comment.
nswtrains
Another nswtrains non sequitur to prove how very superior he is.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The Pfizer COVID19 vaccine kills 26 people in Norway - but apparently its not a problem. Express UK:

NORWAY has reported 23 elderly people have died just days after taking the COVID-19 vaccine.

The European nation reported that 23 elderly people have died within days of taking the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, with 13 of those deaths said to be related to "side effects". All those who suffered supposed side effects were nursing home patients and at least 80 years old.

Despite the deaths, health officials have not expressed concern but instead plan to adjust their guidance on who should receive the vaccine.

Steinar Madsen, medical director with the Norwegian Medicines Agency, said: "It is quite clear that these vaccines have very little risk, with a small exception for the frailest patients.

"Doctors must now carefully consider who should be vaccinated.

"Those who are very frail and at the very end of life can be vaccinated after an individual assessment.”

And then die from it, presumably.

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