The corona virus COVID-19

 
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Cellulitis can be a side effect of nearly anything that causes a a puncture to the skin.

You have bacteria on the outside of your body, the puncture provides a vector to the inside your body, nothing a bit of antibiotic won’t clear up in a handful of days.

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  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Cellulitis can be a side effect of nearly anything that causes a a puncture to the skin.

You have bacteria on the outside of your body, the puncture provides a vector to the inside your body, …
Aaron
Hopefully some Victorian nurse will be suspended from duty pending completion of basic infection control retraining.

… nothing a bit of antibiotic won’t clear up in a handful of days.
Aaron
Hopefully for Greg Hunt, he's one of the majority for whom that is true.

A friend I know is in her mid 50s and has to wear a compression stocking on one calf all the time because the cellulitis just keeps coming back no matter how it is treated.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
I just read from a comment on a Skynews thread on Youtube, that Greg Hunt's illness may be as a result of a side effect from the Covid Vaccine, he has Cellulitis, Cellulitis is a side effect of the Vaccine apparently, according to page 20 of this document - COVID-19_AstraZeneca_Vaccine_Analysis_Print.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk)Is it true, I have no idea....
lsrailfan
I wish Greg Hunt a speedy recovery. IMHO he is a good bloke.

In the meantime, it may be prudent to remember that rumours (or in this case, Sky News reports) are created by haters, spread by fools and believed by idiots.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Italy has joined several European countries – including Norway and Denmark – temporarily suspending the AstraZeneca vaccine due to serious adverse effects.

The Italian Medicines Agency banned a batch of one million doses nationwide. Austria also banned the batch after a 49-year-old nurse died from a blood clot.

The vaccine batch of concern was sent to 17 European countries, however, the EU regulator found no evidence the jab was unsafe.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6239169025001
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

http://www.theguardian.com
Five reasons Greg Hunt may not be the best minister in the ...

Just another mediocre politician I'd say
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Italy has joined several European countries – including Norway and Denmark – temporarily suspending the AstraZeneca vaccine due to serious adverse effects.

The Italian Medicines Agency banned a batch of one million doses nationwide. Austria also banned the batch after a 49-year-old nurse died from a blood clot.

The vaccine batch of concern was sent to 17 European countries, however, the EU regulator found no evidence the jab was unsafe.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6239169025001
bevans
Of course it has side-effects - Greg Hunt has that vaccine on Sunday and he's rushed to hospital on Tuesday and they say 'nothing at all to do with the vaccine'.

How the buggery blazes do they suppose to KNOW that given the problems demonstrable overseas with this thing!
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Quite trivially, they ‘KNOW’ that because suppose it’s something like a bladder or kidney infection, even an infected ingrown toe nail or whatever and he was injected in the upper arm… so long as the infection isn’t at the puncture site they can be pretty sure it wasn’t related to the vaccine.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Italy has joined several European countries – including Norway and Denmark – temporarily suspending the AstraZeneca vaccine due to serious adverse effects.

The Italian Medicines Agency banned a batch of one million doses nationwide. Austria also banned the batch after a 49-year-old nurse died from a blood clot.

The vaccine batch of concern was sent to 17 European countries, however, the EU regulator found no evidence the jab was unsafe.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6239169025001
bevans
I think they said this morning 17m AZ doses issued and we are talking about a few people who "may" have suffered deadly side effects.

So applying to Australia, assume that 17m is every adult deemed suited to receive the vaccine

- Nominally there is around 160,000 deaths pa

- 2020 4 Week March to April were over 900 above baseline

- 2020 May - Oct was around 200 - 300 / week below the historic baseline due to less movements, driving, PT, almost no flu deaths etc

- 9000 from lung cancer linked to smoking

- 17000 from heart disease linked to mostly lifestyle choices

2018 data, over 3000 from suicide

But wait, maybe, just maybe up to half a dozen individuals died from the vaccine. There are probably more dying from shark attacks or rock fishing.

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release
https://blog.id.com.au/2020/population/demographic-trends/how-many-deaths-are-there-in-australia-each-year/

Note, the USA lost 300,000 people due to CV-19. For 2020 the US had around 200,000 extra deaths than previous years, indicating that the impact of CV-19 and everything associated to it on the population is overwhelmingly negative.  

Moral of the story, get jabbed.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Quite trivially, they ‘KNOW’ that because suppose it’s something like a bladder or kidney infection, even an infected ingrown toe nail or whatever and he was injected in the upper arm… so long as the infection isn’t at the puncture site they can be pretty sure it wasn’t related to the vaccine.
Aaron
Couldn't a blood clot (which commonly occurs in the legs) have been caused by said vaccine?

There's a lot of countries who have suspended AstraZenica's vaccine being used. Is it just alarmist or is there something more to it...
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Do blood clots in the legs occur more commonly than receiving a vaccine? Yes, absolutely they do, many many people take anti coagulants, and not usually because they have recently had a vaccine. Just because two things occur near each other in relatively rare instances does not imply causation.

Anyway, Greg Hunt didn’t have a blood clot, he had cellulitis in his leg (notably NOT where a COVID vaccine is administered) so that seems to be a false equivalency argument at best.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Do blood clots in the legs occur more commonly than receiving a vaccine? Yes, absolutely they do, many many people take anti coagulants, and not usually because they have recently had a vaccine. Just because two things occur near each other in relatively rare instances does not imply causation.

Anyway, Greg Hunt didn’t have a blood clot, he had cellulitis in his leg (notably NOT where a COVID vaccine is administered) so that seems to be a false equivalency argument at best.
Aaron
Just asking the question given that there's now around a dozen countries that have suspended use of that particular variant. I've been reading a lot of stuff today that thoroughly condemns those countries for taking that action - why? What's the problem with erring on the side of caution?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Do blood clots in the legs occur more commonly than receiving a vaccine? Yes, absolutely they do, many many people take anti coagulants, and not usually because they have recently had a vaccine. Just because two things occur near each other in relatively rare instances does not imply causation.

Anyway, Greg Hunt didn’t have a blood clot, he had cellulitis in his leg (notably NOT where a COVID vaccine is administered) so that seems to be a false equivalency argument at best.
Just asking the question given that there's now around a dozen countries that have suspended use of that particular variant. I've been reading a lot of stuff today that thoroughly condemns those countries for taking that action - why? What's the problem with erring on the side of caution?
don_dunstan
30 people or 0.0006% of all those with AZ vaccinated got a blood clot, not all dead.

More people % wise have probably died of burping!
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Do blood clots in the legs occur more commonly than receiving a vaccine? Yes, absolutely they do, many many people take anti coagulants, and not usually because they have recently had a vaccine. Just because two things occur near each other in relatively rare instances does not imply causation.

Anyway, Greg Hunt didn’t have a blood clot, he had cellulitis in his leg (notably NOT where a COVID vaccine is administered) so that seems to be a false equivalency argument at best.
Just asking the question given that there's now around a dozen countries that have suspended use of that particular variant. I've been reading a lot of stuff today that thoroughly condemns those countries for taking that action - why? What's the problem with erring on the side of caution?
30 people or 0.0006% of all those with AZ vaccinated got a blood clot, not all dead.

More people % wise have probably died of burping!
RTT_Rules
It was serious enough for a dozen countries to suspend it. Or are you saying that those dozen countries are doing it for no reason whatsoever?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I’ll take RTT at his quoted 6 TEN THOUSANDTHS of a percent (I’ll even generously round it up to 1 THOUSANDTH of a percent) dying due to Covid vaccination.

Covid in Australia is killing approximately 1 in 30 infected people, so that’s about 3.3% which I will generously round down to 3%.

That’s 3000 times more likely to die from the disease than the vaccination.

The fact remains, and this is true of EVERY vaccine on the market, the disease is ALWAYS worse than any side effect.

I don’t know if a dozen countries are ‘doing it for no reason whatsoever’ but I will say they’re not doing it for an intelligent reason whatsoever, further, it most definitely was not serious enough for a dozen countries to suspend it.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
And I just further read RTT said ‘blood clot’ not ‘dead’.

smeg, suspending the vaccine because of the ‘side effects’ is smeg dumber than it even looked before.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
Received a lovely letter from Clive Palmer today telling me that vaccines are being rushed onto people who don't need them...
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Quite trivially, they ‘KNOW’ that because suppose it’s something like a bladder or kidney infection, even an infected ingrown toe nail or whatever and he was injected in the upper arm… so long as the infection isn’t at the puncture site they can be pretty sure it wasn’t related to the vaccine.
Couldn't a blood clot (which commonly occurs in the legs) have been caused by said vaccine?

There's a lot of countries who have suspended AstraZenica's vaccine being used. Is it just alarmist or is there something more to it...
don_dunstan
It is just alarmist, which is why you latched onto it.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Do blood clots in the legs occur more commonly than receiving a vaccine? Yes, absolutely they do, many many people take anti coagulants, and not usually because they have recently had a vaccine. Just because two things occur near each other in relatively rare instances does not imply causation.

Anyway, Greg Hunt didn’t have a blood clot, he had cellulitis in his leg (notably NOT where a COVID vaccine is administered) so that seems to be a false equivalency argument at best.
Just asking the question given that there's now around a dozen countries that have suspended use of that particular variant. I've been reading a lot of stuff today that thoroughly condemns those countries for taking that action - why? What's the problem with erring on the side of caution?
don_dunstan
The answer is obvious, which is why you couldn't see it - the alternative to taking the vaccine results in a far worse outcome.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Do blood clots in the legs occur more commonly than receiving a vaccine? Yes, absolutely they do, many many people take anti coagulants, and not usually because they have recently had a vaccine. Just because two things occur near each other in relatively rare instances does not imply causation.

Anyway, Greg Hunt didn’t have a blood clot, he had cellulitis in his leg (notably NOT where a COVID vaccine is administered) so that seems to be a false equivalency argument at best.
Just asking the question given that there's now around a dozen countries that have suspended use of that particular variant. I've been reading a lot of stuff today that thoroughly condemns those countries for taking that action - why? What's the problem with erring on the side of caution?
30 people or 0.0006% of all those with AZ vaccinated got a blood clot, not all dead.

More people % wise have probably died of burping!
It was serious enough for a dozen countries to suspend it. Or are you saying that those dozen countries are doing it for no reason whatsoever?
don_dunstan
Hasn't the penny dropped yet?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I don’t know if a dozen countries are ‘doing it for no reason whatsoever’ but I will say they’re not doing it for an intelligent reason whatsoever, further, it most definitely was not serious enough for a dozen countries to suspend it.
Aaron
How do you know that everything there is to know about this very recently developed drug - including its long term use, safety, etc -

Not saying that blood clots are the sole problem, maybe just a side-effect of an even-bigger problem (maybe).

You know yourself as a university academic that whole studies etc can be faked and sometime we don't find out till years later. Look at Medel, the original faker - he was ultimately right but faked his results to prove he was a hundred percent on the money.

Is modern medicine really much better? Seriously.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Received a lovely letter from Clive Palmer today telling me that vaccines are being rushed onto people who don't need them...
"Graham4405"
If that fat slob told me that the sun would set tomorrow evening I'd want a second opinion.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I don’t know if a dozen countries are ‘doing it for no reason whatsoever’ but I will say they’re not doing it for an intelligent reason whatsoever, further, it most definitely was not serious enough for a dozen countries to suspend it.
How do you know that everything there is to know about this very recently developed drug - including its long term use, safety, etc -

Not saying that blood clots are the sole problem, maybe just a side-effect of an even-bigger problem (maybe).

You know yourself as a university academic that whole studies etc can be faked and sometime we don't find out till years later. Look at Medel, the original faker - he was ultimately right but faked his results to prove he was a hundred percent on the money.

Is modern medicine really much better? Seriously.
don_dunstan
I don’t know everything, but I know that so far all approved vaccines are doing a decent job of protection, and none of the side effects are as bad as the disease.

If there’s a bigger problem why are we only hearing of the clots and not the bigger problem?

It’s Mendel and as it happens I have read his work extensively, and more so, I have many (hundreds, even thousands maybe) hours of study and work in statistics behind me. Mendel isn’t so much a faker, more Fisher is off the mark. If you read what Mendel actually wrote, versus the data he collected you’ll see he’s on pretty solid ground, Fisher on the other hand seems to have misunderstood and even misinterpreted traits. Fisher was not necessarily a great geneticist.

Mendel’s initial work in progeny tests closely match that of Fisher’s review - further if you look at Mendel’s repeat of that work for the trial he thought didn’t produce fitting data (Fisher’s ‘reason’ for saying that Mendel selected tests that did work) you’ll see that Mendel was right not to believe his first set of outcomes, and indeed on the second trial his results which reflected what he ‘wanted’ closely matched Fisher’s expected data. Sometimes in science an experiment goes wrong, for potentially a bunch of unforeseen circumstances, not accepting that data and retesting is not grounds for being labelled a fraud, it’s merely grounds for not being an idiot and believing something that doesn’t make sense.

I could type a bunch more about these two, but I really cannot be bothered, but I will say this, even if Mendel did fake his results (and he didn’t), he was still correct in his theories, experimentation does not always go as expected. Also, have you got any slightly more contemporaneous to today? You’re talking about theories and experiments and papers from 150 to 100 years ago - let it go Don.

‘Is modern medicine much better?’ Seriously? You ask that? You really mean to ask that? Got Polio? TB? Know anyone that’s died of a ‘toothache’ in the last five decades? Know anyone that’s died from an infected scratch from a rose thorn? Can you name a ye olde time recipient of an organ transplant, or heart pacemaker? Have you spoken to your Dr about blood letting to prevent you getting COVID from the miasma? Seriously.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

I don’t know if a dozen countries are ‘doing it for no reason whatsoever’ but I will say they’re not doing it for an intelligent reason whatsoever, further, it most definitely was not serious enough for a dozen countries to suspend it.
How do you know that everything there is to know about this very recently developed drug - including its long term use, safety, etc -

Not saying that blood clots are the sole problem, maybe just a side-effect of an even-bigger problem (maybe).

You know yourself as a university academic that whole studies etc can be faked and sometime we don't find out till years later. Look at Medel, the original faker - he was ultimately right but faked his results to prove he was a hundred percent on the money.

Is modern medicine really much better? Seriously.
I don’t know everything, but I know that so far all approved vaccines are doing a decent job of protection, and none of the side effects are as bad as the disease.

If there’s a bigger problem why are we only hearing of the clots and not the bigger problem?

It’s Mendel and as it happens I have read his work extensively, and more so, I have many (hundreds, even thousands maybe) hours of study and work in statistics behind me. Mendel isn’t so much a faker, more Fisher is off the mark. If you read what Mendel actually wrote, versus the data he collected you’ll see he’s on pretty solid ground, Fisher on the other hand seems to have misunderstood and even misinterpreted traits. Fisher was not necessarily a great geneticist.

Mendel’s initial work in progeny tests closely match that of Fisher’s review - further if you look at Mendel’s repeat of that work for the trial he thought didn’t produce fitting data (Fisher’s ‘reason’ for saying that Mendel selected tests that did work) you’ll see that Mendel was right not to believe his first set of outcomes, and indeed on the second trial his results which reflected what he ‘wanted’ closely matched Fisher’s expected data. Sometimes in science an experiment goes wrong, for potentially a bunch of unforeseen circumstances, not accepting that data and retesting is not grounds for being labelled a fraud, it’s merely grounds for not being an idiot and believing something that doesn’t make sense.

I could type a bunch more about these two, but I really cannot be bothered, but I will say this, even if Mendel did fake his results (and he didn’t), he was still correct in his theories, experimentation does not always go as expected. Also, have you got any slightly more contemporaneous to today? You’re talking about theories and experiments and papers from 150 to 100 years ago - let it go Don.

‘Is modern medicine much better?’ Seriously? You ask that? You really mean to ask that? Got Polio? TB? Know anyone that’s died of a ‘toothache’ in the last five decades? Know anyone that’s died from an infected scratch from a rose thorn? Can you name a ye olde time recipient of an organ transplant, or heart pacemaker? Have you spoken to your Dr about blood letting to prevent you getting COVID from the miasma? Seriously.
Aaron
I take Apixaban for AF so I believe I will be OK and certainly will be having the jab. My wife also takes a different type of blood thinning agent (not warfarin) and had her jab on Monday and she is OK.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

From the NJM's long time academic rival, Twitter:



A thread based on an FAQ explaining the German government's decision on AZ.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

PNG is a worry.  Nearly 500 new cases in the past two days....

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