The corona virus COVID-19

 
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
...

No one should be forced to take the Vax, but you should sign a wavier to say you will cover your own medical expenses, both public and private. I don't see why the rest of should pay for your choice.
The same could be said about many other "lifestyle choices" like smoking and illicit drugs etc. Unfortunately that is yet to happen and everyone pays.
Madjikthise
I did read once that smokers do the health and welfare systems a favour by dying early.

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  Carnot Minister for Railways

Awesome!  Enjoy the ride NSW....
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
...

No one should be forced to take the Vax, but you should sign a wavier to say you will cover your own medical expenses, both public and private. I don't see why the rest of should pay for your choice.
The same could be said about many other "lifestyle choices" like smoking and illicit drugs etc. Unfortunately that is yet to happen and everyone pays.
I did read once that smokers do the health and welfare systems a favour by dying early.
don_dunstan
I could be wrong, but I'd heard of numerous occasions (in Oz) where Dr's refused to undertake certain high cost procedures unless the patient quit smoking. Maybe its high risk?

My parents are life long smokers, now 75, both seem to holding up well, and while they don't tell me much, I see early signs of potential bigger issues on every visit. That and the fact they looked very old 20 years ago. I fairly certain my dad having watched his father die after 5 years with dementia at 93 would rather go out the door with a smoking induced life limiting disease than allow himself to be in the same situation. His mother lasted until 103 (last year), she was god until last 1.5 years, mother nature is at times very cruel by not taking people when its time.  

Meanwhile a guy I knew we went camping with him to Cape York in 2003, he was also a life longer smoker. Seemed fine during the trip, being an ex truckie and smoker was able to light a fire quickly as the rest of our group didn't smoke. However he was around mid 60's and 6mth on return he went down hill real fast over a matter of weeks and went into hospital not knowing if he'd come out and if he did on a O2 bottle.

Dr told him straight, keep sticking those in your mouth and you have no use for services. He stopped smoking instantly, released from hospital. Then had 12 years of happy life after that, not needing O, but took a while to walk long distances and got slower with time (yes Emphysema (spelling)). Last few years was more house bound and i think O2. Died around 80 a couple years back. He always told me he'd wish he's wised up at least 10 years before, but you make your own life choices.

I think he was probably one of the lucky ones, much better than what I've seen with Lung cancer. Although some just have a heart attack and die.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Panic in Bondi.  The new case was a regular visitor to Westfield Bondi Junction:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-16/nsw-covid19-positive-locally-acquired-case-recorded/100218700

Apparently he worked as a driver taking people from Sydney Airport to Hotel Quarantine.  Was he vaccinated?
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Panic in Bondi.  The new case was a regular visitor to Westfield Bondi Junction:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-16/nsw-covid19-positive-locally-acquired-case-recorded/100218700

Apparently he worked as a driver taking people from Sydney Airport to Hotel Quarantine.  Was he vaccinated?
Carnot
There is a sadistic part of me that wants to see how NSW would deal with an outbreak the size of Melbourne last year, but of course lets hope nothing comes of this.

In other news Victoria has correctly dropped the outdoor mask requirement from tomorrow night. People were noticeably starting to get slack with masks again anyway and I haven't seen any police on the streets in ages.

Definitely this 4th time around people have taken things less seriously and people are even openly ignoring the QR code check in now.

I wouldn't rule out another winter outbreak this year, but they are going to have trouble convincing people to lockdown a 5th time.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Panic in Bondi.  The new case was a regular visitor to Westfield Bondi Junction:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-16/nsw-covid19-positive-locally-acquired-case-recorded/100218700

Apparently he worked as a driver taking people from Sydney Airport to Hotel Quarantine.  Was he vaccinated?
There is a sadistic part of me that wants to see how NSW would deal with an outbreak the size of Melbourne last year, but of course lets hope nothing comes of this.

In other news Victoria has correctly dropped the outdoor mask requirement from tomorrow night. People were noticeably starting to get slack with masks again anyway and I haven't seen any police on the streets in ages.

Definitely this 4th time around people have taken things less seriously and people are even openly ignoring the QR code check in now.

I wouldn't rule out another winter outbreak this year, but they are going to have trouble convincing people to lockdown a 5th time.
Mr. Lane
The answer is a lot better than Victoria would of, even if NSW had 50 cases a day, we would more than likely just put a ring fence up around that area of concern.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

QR codes are being strictly enforced in Central Vic atm.  At all supermarkets they've manned the entrances or won't let you through checkout without "Checking In" either electronically or manually.

As for Sydney, I doubt you could get a more risky exposure site for potential spread...

Hold on to your hats.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
We were assured the advent of vaccines would make this bullsh*t disappear. Lock-downs AND QR codes.

Lied to yet again.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Panic in Bondi.  The new case was a regular visitor to Westfield Bondi Junction:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-16/nsw-covid19-positive-locally-acquired-case-recorded/100218700

Apparently he worked as a driver taking people from Sydney Airport to Hotel Quarantine.  Was he vaccinated?
Carnot
Vaccination to prevent you from dying or getting seriously ill, it won't stop you getting it.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Panic in Bondi.  The new case was a regular visitor to Westfield Bondi Junction:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-16/nsw-covid19-positive-locally-acquired-case-recorded/100218700

Apparently he worked as a driver taking people from Sydney Airport to Hotel Quarantine.  Was he vaccinated?
Vaccination to prevent you from dying or getting seriously ill, it won't stop you getting it.
RTT_Rules
Yet people who are fully vaccinated still die from COVID19 - Metro UK
  ANR Chief Commissioner

Vaucluse in lockdown? How would NSW function?
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Vaucluse in lockdown? How would NSW function?
ANR
I would put Point Piper in lockdown, you would hear the screaming of Truffles Turncoat FROM Melbourne!
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Vaucluse in lockdown? How would NSW function?
ANR
Much better
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Panic in Bondi.  The new case was a regular visitor to Westfield Bondi Junction:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-16/nsw-covid19-positive-locally-acquired-case-recorded/100218700

Apparently he worked as a driver taking people from Sydney Airport to Hotel Quarantine.  Was he vaccinated?
Vaccination to prevent you from dying or getting seriously ill, it won't stop you getting it.
Yet people who are fully vaccinated still die from COVID19 - Metro UK
don_dunstan

A new report from Public Health England (PHE) shows out of the 42 British people known to have died with the Delta variant, 12 of them (29%) were fully vaccinated with two doses.

45% of population fully vaxed, 62% at least one vaxed.

So the chances of dying with vax is lower than without.


But it is likely the vaccinated people who died were elderly or sick with pre-existing conditions, and their immunity had dwindled since getting their jabs.

Yes, the vaccine is not the magic bullet the govts had previously flagged and I'm now looking at this going on for years and hence for years there will the need for face masks etc and regular jabs. How much longer the various govts can keep it out of Australia remains to be seen.




  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Panic in Bondi.  The new case was a regular visitor to Westfield Bondi Junction:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-16/nsw-covid19-positive-locally-acquired-case-recorded/100218700

Apparently he worked as a driver taking people from Sydney Airport to Hotel Quarantine.  Was he vaccinated?
Vaccination to prevent you from dying or getting seriously ill, it won't stop you getting it.
Yet people who are fully vaccinated still die from COVID19 - Metro UK

A new report from Public Health England (PHE) shows out of the 42 British people known to have died with the Delta variant, 12 of them (29%) were fully vaccinated with two doses.

45% of population fully vaxed, 62% at least one vaxed.

So the chances of dying with vax is lower than without.


But it is likely the vaccinated people who died were elderly or sick with pre-existing conditions, and their immunity had dwindled since getting their jabs.

Yes, the vaccine is not the magic bullet the govts had previously flagged and I'm now looking at this going on for years and hence for years there will the need for face masks etc and regular jabs. How much longer the various govts can keep it out of Australia remains to be seen.




RTT_Rules
We'll never have the virus run rampant here so vaccines won't matter anyway.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Panic in Bondi.  The new case was a regular visitor to Westfield Bondi Junction:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-16/nsw-covid19-positive-locally-acquired-case-recorded/100218700

Apparently he worked as a driver taking people from Sydney Airport to Hotel Quarantine.  Was he vaccinated?
Vaccination to prevent you from dying or getting seriously ill, it won't stop you getting it.
Yet people who are fully vaccinated still die from COVID19 - Metro UK

A new report from Public Health England (PHE) shows out of the 42 British people known to have died with the Delta variant, 12 of them (29%) were fully vaccinated with two doses.

45% of population fully vaxed, 62% at least one vaxed.

So the chances of dying with vax is lower than without.


But it is likely the vaccinated people who died were elderly or sick with pre-existing conditions, and their immunity had dwindled since getting their jabs.

Yes, the vaccine is not the magic bullet the govts had previously flagged and I'm now looking at this going on for years and hence for years there will the need for face masks etc and regular jabs. How much longer the various govts can keep it out of Australia remains to be seen.

We'll never have the virus run rampant here so vaccines won't matter anyway.
don_dunstan

There is no reason why the virus wouldn't run rampant here if we didn't take the measures we are. Look what it managed to do in Victoria when it got into just a handful of nursing homes: it caused carnage.

But here lies the problem: we cannot keep the virus out forever and even with vaccination there will be deaths. As the virus can still be spread by vaccinated people "herd immunity" may not be achievable. At some point the nation will have to make a decision to sacrifice some of the over 80s, because once the virus is allowed back in, there WILL be COVID deaths in the aged care sector again.

You can definitely make the case that we are doing this predominantly to save 80+ year old's who are already very fail with little quality of life left and probably within 2 years of dying anyway...and maybe that isn't a economically sensible tradeoff.


"We were assured vaccines would make this bullsh*t disappear" - Yeah, except hardly anyone is actually vaccinated at this point, which is why lockdowns, QR codes and no international travel will still be a thing for at least the rest of this year and probably most of next.

The question is at what point do we think enough people are vaccinated to reduce the number of probable deaths to an acceptable level.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia


Shifting more and more towards the elderly.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Worth noting that 800 people died from the flu in Australia in 2019 (many of them probably had the fluvax anyway), 40 in 2020, 0 in 2021 so far:  

  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Panic in Bondi.  The new case was a regular visitor to Westfield Bondi Junction:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-16/nsw-covid19-positive-locally-acquired-case-recorded/100218700

Apparently he worked as a driver taking people from Sydney Airport to Hotel Quarantine.  Was he vaccinated?
Vaccination to prevent you from dying or getting seriously ill, it won't stop you getting it.
Yet people who are fully vaccinated still die from COVID19 - Metro UK

A new report from Public Health England (PHE) shows out of the 42 British people known to have died with the Delta variant, 12 of them (29%) were fully vaccinated with two doses.

45% of population fully vaxed, 62% at least one vaxed.

So the chances of dying with vax is lower than without.


But it is likely the vaccinated people who died were elderly or sick with pre-existing conditions, and their immunity had dwindled since getting their jabs.

Yes, the vaccine is not the magic bullet the govts had previously flagged and I'm now looking at this going on for years and hence for years there will the need for face masks etc and regular jabs. How much longer the various govts can keep it out of Australia remains to be seen.

RTT_Rules

If the Spanish Flu is a guide to go by we will still be talking about this in 2023/2024 and in reality H1N1 that caused it never went away. COVID vaccinations will likely become a yearly thing like the Flu shot.

My prediction is that once we have enough vaccination coverage to drive deaths down to an acceptable level, COVID fatigue will set in and people will begin to accept that elderly people die from viruses like we do with the annual flu.

Australians are not going to wear masks for years on end, especially outdoors where everyone knows they don't work and hardly any office workers will return to the CBD offices whilst they have to be worn indoors, so the CBDs will remain dead so long as people have to wear them.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Shifting more and more towards the elderly.
bevans
Not a problem...it is really only the elderly and people with specific medical issues who will benefit from the vaccination.

Anyone over 70 who doesn't get AZ is a fool. For all of the other people who have medical conditions or who work with the elderly, they should get Pfizer.

Once we are at 90% vaccination of these groups we should look at moving to local-lockdowns rather than citywide ones.

Very, very few healthy people under 70 die of COVID or suffer the so called "long COVID". That said I would advise everyone to get vaccinated regardless.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Worth noting that 800 people died from the flu in Australia in 2019 (many of them probably had the fluvax anyway), 40 in 2020, 0 in 2021 so far:  

Carnot
Should be no surprise that measures to stop something as infectious as COVID would also have a dramatic effect on the Flu.

For some reason some people find this difficult to understand and think the Governments of the world are reclassifying Flu cases as COVID.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
Worth noting that 800 people died from the flu in Australia in 2019 (many of them probably had the fluvax anyway), 40 in 2020, 0 in 2021 so far:
Should be no surprise that measures to stop something as infectious as COVID would also have a dramatic effect on the Flu.
Mr. Lane
To me this says that some of the more basic precautions should have been taken long ago, (social distancing, hand washing/sanitising, a vigorous cleaning regime etc) and most (if not all) of the flu deaths may have been avoided. From an economic point-of-view we could have a more productive workforce too...
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
You can definitely make the case that we are doing this predominantly to save 80+ year old's who are already very fail with little quality of life left and probably within 2 years of dying anyway...
Mr. Lane

I have a friend who will be 101 in a couple of weeks, he doesn't look like he will be dying any time soon. My mother is 91, has many health problems, but her doctor told her recently that she may live for another 10-20 years. Then there's Dexter Kruger...

Just because someone is over 80 doesn't necessarily mean that they will die within a couple of years!
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

You can definitely make the case that we are doing this predominantly to save 80+ year old's who are already very fail with little quality of life left and probably within 2 years of dying anyway...

I have a friend who will be 101 in a couple of weeks, he doesn't look like he will be dying any time soon. My mother is 91, has many health problems, but her doctor told her recently that she may live for another 10-20 years. Then there's Dexter Kruger...

Just because someone is over 80 doesn't necessarily mean that they will die within a couple of years!
Graham4405
Father in law went into high dependency care in February 2018. We were informed that the average life expectancy for a resident from then on was 2.7 years. He stepped off a couple of months back, @ 3.3 years, give or take. Non COVID related.

Edit, just shy of 86.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Worth noting that 800 people died from the flu in Australia in 2019 (many of them probably had the fluvax anyway), 40 in 2020, 0 in 2021 so far:
Should be no surprise that measures to stop something as infectious as COVID would also have a dramatic effect on the Flu.
To me this says that some of the more basic precautions should have been taken long ago, (social distancing, hand washing/sanitising, a vigorous cleaning regime etc) and most (if not all) of the flu deaths may have been avoided. From an economic point-of-view we could have a more productive workforce too...
Graham4405
It goes without saying that people should be hygienic, but do you expect all of society to adopt social distancing year-after-year to prevent about 800 deaths a year amongst the elderly?

So no contact sports ever again? No gyms? No dance studios? No bars and nightclubs? Strict office distancing rules forever?

No more crush loads and trains and trams?

It is not realistic. Humans don't live that way.

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