The China Problem

 
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
You're proof positive of that thesis, Michael. Your ancestors migrated to the UK in search of a better life and then when you moved you went to another anglo-centric English-speaking country yourself.
How many years constitute the cut-off point where people don't have to be reminded any more about how lucky they are to have migrated here?
As long as Don acknowledges that just as the enormous contribution my parents Generation made to the UK, he also takes into account the contribution that migrants have made to Australia.

It is not a one way street.

Michael
mejhammers1
How would you describe the traffic in Melbourne? Not right now obviously - but would you say that services and traffic in Melbourne are better or worse than (say) London?

And what role does adding 100,000 people to Melbourne every year play in that situation?

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  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

You're proof positive of that thesis, Michael. Your ancestors migrated to the UK in search of a better life and then when you moved you went to another anglo-centric English-speaking country yourself.
How many years constitute the cut-off point where people don't have to be reminded any more about how lucky they are to have migrated here?
As long as Don acknowledges that just as the enormous contribution my parents Generation made to the UK, he also takes into account the contribution that migrants have made to Australia.

It is not a one way street.

Michael
How would you describe the traffic in Melbourne? Not right now obviously - but would you say that services and traffic in Melbourne are better or worse than (say) London?

And what role does adding 100,000 people to Melbourne every year play in that situation?
don_dunstan
Didn't think you would. Too much to ask from the Donster!!!

I do not know if it is better or worse than London. And what kind of a question is that anyway? If it is worse than London's a major reason is that Melbourne's transit systems are $hit!

Can you categorically prove beyond doubt that all 100,000 people are migrants from Overseas? I would hazard a guess that a fair proportion of that would be Intrastate and Interstate migration too. Total permanent migration to Australia is capped at 190,000 per year. http://www.aph.gov.au

Cannot even bring yourself to acknowledge any contributions that migrants have made. No doubt migration has had its challenges, but it seems to me that you see people like me as a burden. Oh well, normal service resumed.


Michael
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Didn't think you would. Too much to ask from the Donster!!!

I do not know if it is better or worse than London. And what kind of a question is that anyway? If it is worse than London's a major reason is that Melbourne's transit systems are $hit!

Can you categorically prove beyond doubt that all 100,000 people are migrants from Overseas? I would hazard a guess that a fair proportion of that would be Intrastate and Interstate migration too. Total permanent migration to Australia is capped at 190,000 per year. http://www.aph.gov.au

Cannot even bring yourself to acknowledge any contributions that migrants have made. No doubt migration has had its challenges, but it seems to me that you see people like me as a burden. Oh well, normal service resumed.


Michael
mejhammers1
No, you're implying that mass-migration is a hundred percent a positive thing for Australia and I'm asking can you see any down-sides? And like the relentless shill that you are you immediately accuse me of a lack of balance.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Didn't think you would. Too much to ask from the Donster!!!

I do not know if it is better or worse than London. And what kind of a question is that anyway? If it is worse than London's a major reason is that Melbourne's transit systems are $hit!

Can you categorically prove beyond doubt that all 100,000 people are migrants from Overseas? I would hazard a guess that a fair proportion of that would be Intrastate and Interstate migration too. Total permanent migration to Australia is capped at 190,000 per year. http://www.aph.gov.au

Cannot even bring yourself to acknowledge any contributions that migrants have made. No doubt migration has had its challenges, but it seems to me that you see people like me as a burden. Oh well, normal service resumed.


Michael
No, you're implying that mass-migration is a hundred percent a positive thing for Australia and I'm asking can you see any down-sides? And like the relentless shill that you are you immediately accuse me of a lack of balance.
don_dunstan
There you go again Don. listening to what is in your head and reply accordingly. And then throws out the odd insult because you have nothing, as per usual you come across as a very angry man.

No doubt migration has had its challenges

Does that read to you that mass-migration is a 100% positive thing? That is the echo in your head Don.

Can you categorically prove beyond doubt that all 100,000 people are migrants from Overseas?

A question that you are unwilling to answer.

Cannot even bring yourself to acknowledge any contributions that migrants have made.

You could answer I acknowledge that, but Migration has had its challenges and you can understand why people are questioning the intake in light of unemployment. No one is accusing you of a lack of balance. That is you holding up a mirror to yourself and not liking what you see.

I am grateful to be in Australia. It is a wonderful country that has flaws like any other. One of them being the treatment of our Indigenous Brothers and Sisters. But I am not here to kiss anyone's ring Don. If you are expecting me say "massa, thank you for letting me live here", you are talking to the wrong bastard.

but it seems to me that you see people like me as a burden.

Well do you? Nah on second thoughts don't bother answer that.


Michael
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
This is starting to get a little scary now especially as i have friends working in China

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-16/australia-china-diplomatic-crisis-after-consul-named-in-warrant/12668424
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Cannot even bring yourself to acknowledge any contributions that migrants have made. No doubt migration has had its challenges, but it seems to me that you see people like me as a burden. Oh well, normal service resumed.


Michael
mejhammers1
Not quite sure how we got to this point in a thread about China but hey, it is the lounge after all.......

Might as well join the party so I'll have a go at this one. If it wasn't for the contributions of migrants I would be either a) single b) living somewhere in Cambridgeshire or c) all of the above!

And as an aside a question for you Michael - accent - East London or 'strayan?
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Cannot even bring yourself to acknowledge any contributions that migrants have made. No doubt migration has had its challenges, but it seems to me that you see people like me as a burden. Oh well, normal service resumed.


Michael
Not quite sure how we got to this point in a thread about China but hey, it is the lounge after all.......

Might as well join the party so I'll have a go at this one. If it wasn't for the contributions of migrants I would be either a) single b) living somewhere in Cambridgeshire or c) all of the above!

And as an aside a question for you Michael - accent - East London or 'strayan?
BrentonGolding
Well I think I sound East London, but when I go back to East London, they think I sound strayan! Go figure!

Michael
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Didn't think you would. Too much to ask from the Donster!!!

I do not know if it is better or worse than London. And what kind of a question is that anyway? If it is worse than London's a major reason is that Melbourne's transit systems are $hit!

Can you categorically prove beyond doubt that all 100,000 people are migrants from Overseas? I would hazard a guess that a fair proportion of that would be Intrastate and Interstate migration too. Total permanent migration to Australia is capped at 190,000 per year. http://www.aph.gov.au

Cannot even bring yourself to acknowledge any contributions that migrants have made. No doubt migration has had its challenges, but it seems to me that you see people like me as a burden. Oh well, normal service resumed.


Michael
No, you're implying that mass-migration is a hundred percent a positive thing for Australia and I'm asking can you see any down-sides? And like the relentless shill that you are you immediately accuse me of a lack of balance.
.. No one is accusing you of a lack of balance ...
mejhammers1
Of course you are, Michael, your whole response was centered around how I'm racist and xenophobic, that's pretty much the only card you ever play here on Railpage.

If you honestly can't see that Melbourne is stretched to the limits and that adding a million people in 14 years is ruining the joint then that's your prerogative. Mass immigration for Sydney and Melbourne has significant downsides, particularly for the existing residents who have already paid for the infrastructure that immigrants come here to enjoy - that's all I'm saying.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I do not know if it is better or worse than London. And what kind of a question is that anyway? If it is worse than London's a major reason is that Melbourne's transit systems are $hit!
mejhammers1
For the record, Melbourne's transit systems seemed to work perfectly fine up until the early 2000's when they mysteriously started to become slower and overloaded. Why is that I wonder...
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
I do not know if it is better or worse than London. And what kind of a question is that anyway? If it is worse than London's a major reason is that Melbourne's transit systems are $hit!
For the record, Melbourne's transit systems seemed to work perfectly fine up until the early 2000's when they mysteriously started to become slower and overloaded. Why is that I wonder...
don_dunstan
I wonder if thats because all the jobs smeg off to the city around that time and working in the city became the norm rather than living near where you worked.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Thanks to the Virus, that may change the way people work.  Many working at home prefer not travelling into the office anymore.  This means more people will move to the country areas.  Cheaper properties, better lifestyle and only have to go into the office 1 or 2 days a week.  
All good for country trains.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Didn't think you would. Too much to ask from the Donster!!!

I do not know if it is better or worse than London. And what kind of a question is that anyway? If it is worse than London's a major reason is that Melbourne's transit systems are $hit!

Can you categorically prove beyond doubt that all 100,000 people are migrants from Overseas? I would hazard a guess that a fair proportion of that would be Intrastate and Interstate migration too. Total permanent migration to Australia is capped at 190,000 per year. http://www.aph.gov.au

Cannot even bring yourself to acknowledge any contributions that migrants have made. No doubt migration has had its challenges, but it seems to me that you see people like me as a burden. Oh well, normal service resumed.


Michael
No, you're implying that mass-migration is a hundred percent a positive thing for Australia and I'm asking can you see any down-sides? And like the relentless shill that you are you immediately accuse me of a lack of balance.
.. No one is accusing you of a lack of balance ...
Of course you are, Michael, your whole response was centered around how I'm racist and xenophobic, that's pretty much the only card you ever play here on Railpage.

If you honestly can't see that Melbourne is stretched to the limits and that adding a million people in 14 years is ruining the joint then that's your prerogative. Mass immigration for Sydney and Melbourne has significant downsides, particularly for the existing residents who have already paid for the infrastructure that immigrants come here to enjoy - that's all I'm saying.
don_dunstan
I yearn for the day that you can have an intelligent discussion without you throwing a hissy fit, throwing your toys out of the pram and making wild accusations. Stop listening to what is in your head.  Remember how this started. In response to what another poster said;

How many years constitute the cut-off point where people don't have to be reminded any more about how lucky they are to have migrated here?

I replied with

As long as Don acknowledges that just as the enormous contribution my parents Generation made to the UK, he also takes into account the contribution that migrants have made to Australia.

Does the above sound like I am accusing you of being xenophobic and racist? No it does not. In any case my parents and I are black, but are all migrants to Australia non white? I am not just talking about black migrants but migrants in general. You really want to get over yourself. You hold up a mirror and you do not like what you see, and that is not anyone else's fault but your own. May I suggest that it is you who is doing the baiting here.

If you honestly can't see that Melbourne is stretched to the limits and that adding a million people in 14 years is ruining the joint then that's your prerogative. Mass immigration for Sydney and Melbourne has significant downsides.

Who said that I cannot see that Melbourne is under stress, of course it is. Don, now you are arguing with yourself or you are trying to blow smoke up my a$$. Secondly can you categorically prove that all 1 million in Sydney and Melbourne is to do with Overseas Migration?

Particularly for the existing residents who have already paid for the infrastructure that immigrants come here to enjoy - that's all I'm saying.

Yeah, I have been here for 30 years, and never paid a cent in taxes or rates. What are you saying that migrants who work don't pay any tax or rates?

I will say it before and I will say it again, I am grateful that I live in Australia. I do not need to be reminded by you on how lucky I am or how grateful I should be. I am not here to kiss anyone's ring. And I will speak out against Discrimination of any form. And if that sounds like I am accusing you of being racist and xenophobic then may I suggest that is your problem and yours only.


Michael
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Does the above sound like I am accusing you of being xenophobic and racist?
mejhammers1
Nah but you've done that plenty of times in the past Michael and it's pretty much what I've come to expect from you.

A while ago I pointed out that people who live in ethnic enclaves comprised of people who aren't from their own background are more likely to suffer from depression - a study from RMIT University and reported on that bastion of racism SBS. So people tend to want to mix with people of their own backgrounds - big deal. And you responded with the really polite and respectful suggestion that I could barely keep my right arm from straightening in a Nazi salute.

So you weren't even prepared to listen to what I was saying an instantly accused me of being a Nazi. Under those circumstances why would I even bother trying to have a polite conversation with you?
What are you saying that migrants who work don't pay any tax or rates?
mejhammers1
You're willfully ignorant if you think there's not people moving here exclusively because they want to take advantage of our infrastructure, our health and welfare systems that generations of Australians built up and paid for and that recent migrants have in no way contributed to.

I worked in the welfare system in Melbourne Michael and I can tell you that there's people who dump their aging parents straight into the emergency housing system the very minute they get a Centrelink entitlement. There's people who get elderly relatives over from their home country and 'borrow' someone else's Medicare card so they can get medications and operations paid for by the Australian taxpayer while they're here. Do you seriously think those systems are going to be sustainable for all Australians going into the future while there's such wanton abuse of them?

We simply can't afford to absorb these enormous numbers of people and keep our existing living standards high, that's been confirmed in a buried 2016 report by the Productivity Commission that actually said Centrelink and Medicare were not going to exist in their current formats if mass migration - particularly 'family reunion' - continued in its current form.

These problems are real - they're not just crazy old Don Dunstan going off on a rant. And the people who are suffering the most from mass migration are the Aussies who can't get anywhere near social housing, who have to wait years for elective surgery or who are unable to get a foot in the door with traditional low skilled jobs because they're discriminated against in favor of people who will work for $12 an hour without complaint.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Does the above sound like I am accusing you of being xenophobic and racist?
Nah but you've done that plenty of times in the past Michael and it's pretty much what I've come to expect from you.

A while ago I pointed out that people who live in ethnic enclaves comprised of people who aren't from their own background are more likely to suffer from depression - a study from RMIT University and reported on that bastion of racism SBS. So people tend to want to mix with people of their own backgrounds - big deal. And you responded with the really polite and respectful suggestion that I could barely keep my right arm from straightening in a Nazi salute.

So you weren't even prepared to listen to what I was saying an instantly accused me of being a Nazi. Under those circumstances why would I even bother trying to have a polite conversation with you?
What are you saying that migrants who work don't pay any tax or rates?
You're willfully ignorant if you think there's not people moving here exclusively because they want to take advantage of our infrastructure, our health and welfare systems that generations of Australians built up and paid for and that recent migrants have in no way contributed to.

I worked in the welfare system in Melbourne Michael and I can tell you that there's people who dump their aging parents straight into the emergency housing system the very minute they get a Centrelink entitlement. There's people who get elderly relatives over from their home country and 'borrow' someone else's Medicare card so they can get medications and operations paid for by the Australian taxpayer while they're here. Do you seriously think those systems are going to be sustainable for all Australians going into the future while there's such wanton abuse of them?

We simply can't afford to absorb these enormous numbers of people and keep our existing living standards high, that's been confirmed in a buried 2016 report by the Productivity Commission that actually said Centrelink and Medicare were not going to exist in their current formats if mass migration - particularly 'family reunion' - continued in its current form.

These problems are real - they're not just crazy old Don Dunstan going off on a rant. And the people who are suffering the most from mass migration are the Aussies who can't get anywhere near social housing, who have to wait years for elective surgery or who are unable to get a foot in the door with traditional low skilled jobs because they're discriminated against in favor of people who will work for $12 an hour without complaint.
don_dunstan
A while ago I pointed out that people who live in ethnic enclaves comprised of people who aren't from their own background are more likely to suffer from depression - a study from RMIT University and reported on that bastion of racism SBS. So people tend to want to mix with people of their own backgrounds - big deal. And you responded with the really polite and respectful suggestion that I could barely keep my right arm from straightening in a Nazi salute.

Fair enough, if you had framed it like that, no problem except the SBS bit. Remind me again how are SBS racist? But you didn't though, did you Don? There you go again, trying to blow smoke up my rear. You simply said

Multiculturalism, causes depression, look it up.

That's what you said, your words. So I responded rather sharply. Yeah it was out of order, I admit. On the other hand, you have utter negative comments about Indians, Chinese, our Indigenous Brothers and Sisters, Eastern Europeans, Sudanese etc., etc. I just find it funny that when migrants get racially abused, some on a regular basis, your reaction is just suck it up and get over it. And here you are having a sook over a comment made some months ago and made just once, in reference to a bigoted comment you made. Let it be said, I did not use the word Nazi.

Again all I have said is an innocuous comment about contributions of migrants, and is met with verbal overload, with gems such as

You're willfully ignorant if you think there's not people moving here exclusively because they want to take advantage of our infrastructure, our health and welfare systems that generations of Australians built up and paid for and that recent migrants have in no way contributed to.

No again you are listening to your echo in your head. I know that there are people gaming the system, but I am not one of them and I suspect most migrants are not.

And

I worked in the welfare system in Melbourne Michael and I can tell you that there's people who dump their aging parents straight into the emergency housing system the very minute they get a Centrelink entitlement. There's people who get elderly relatives over from their home country and 'borrow' someone else's Medicare card so they can get medications and operations paid for by the Australian taxpayer while they're here. Do you seriously think those systems are going to be sustainable for all Australians going into the future while there's such wanton abuse of them?

And

We simply can't afford to absorb these enormous numbers of people and keep our existing living standards high, that's been confirmed in a buried 2016 report by the Productivity Commission that actually said Centrelink and Medicare were not going to exist in their current formats if mass migration - particularly 'family reunion' - continued in its current form.

And it goes on and on. I mentioned that there are challenges, I have not said that migration has been 100% positive, but it seems to me that you see any migration as an overwhelmingly negative. And you are kind of suggesting that I am ungrateful and I can assure you that I am not. I am here to provide for my family. For my wife and Children who happen to be Australian born. Chances are that if I had not met my wife, I would have stayed in England. I am not here to kiss the ring. I mean really Don, just calm down.


Michael
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Can this thread get back on topic before we get a visit from a mod with a key
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
And it goes on and on. I mentioned that there are challenges, I have not said that migration has been 100% positive, but it seems to me that you see any migration as an overwhelmingly negative.
mejhammers1
This is the last thing I'll say on this topic: All I want to hear you acknowledge that these resources are limited and that they affect the very poorest people more than people like you who obviously don't rely on those services. There are costs to uncontrolled mass migration - that's all I'm saying.

And so what if multiculturalism causes depression - there's unacknowledged down sides to that too.
And you are kind of suggesting that I am ungrateful and I can assure you that I am not.
mejhammers1

Where did I say that? You're worse than Shane with reading into things that simply aren't there.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Can this thread get back on topic before we get a visit from a mod with a key
DCook
It started with this:
There you go again Don. listening to what is in your head and reply accordingly. And then throws out the odd insult because you have nothing, as per usual you come across as a very angry man.
mejhammers1
Michael never, ever misses an opportunity to show us all how morally superior he is.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield

Okay, Western Europe... but then again they all pretty much speak English now-days anyway. Anywhere else?
don_dunstan
I didn't this attitude existed outside of Chevy Chase films and Contiki Tours, but apparently it's a favourite with the famous 'Arrogant Aussie' too, unfortunately. You'll get by in Scandinavia, Benelux, and the Ruhr Valley with this sort of attitude, but even then they'll just humour you. The Swiss, Austrians and Bavarians will probably see it as proof of your inferior nature, which they will have already decided on based on your clothing and hairstyle.  In southern Europe you'll get a polite, embarrassed reply followed by a quick get away, if you're lucky. If not, and more likely, you'll be ignored or become the object of some sort of ruse or attempt at fraud. Please say that comment was made tongue-in-cheek. In Eastern Europe they'll just be happy that you're not Russian.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

And it goes on and on. I mentioned that there are challenges, I have not said that migration has been 100% positive, but it seems to me that you see any migration as an overwhelmingly negative.
This is the last thing I'll say on this topic: All I want to hear you acknowledge that these resources are limited and that they affect the very poorest people more than people like you who obviously don't rely on those services. There are costs to uncontrolled mass migration - that's all I'm saying.

And so what if multiculturalism causes depression - there's unacknowledged down sides to that too.
And you are kind of suggesting that I am ungrateful and I can assure you that I am not.

Where did I say that? You're worse than Shane with reading into things that simply aren't there.
don_dunstan
Where did I say that? You're worse than Shane with reading into things that simply aren't there.

You're proof positive of that thesis, Michael. Your ancestors migrated to the UK in search of a better life and then when you moved you went to another anglo-centric English-speaking country yourself.

Well maybe not ungrateful, but you sure are hinting that I should be eternally grateful for being here.

This is the last thing I'll say on this topic: All I want to hear you acknowledge that these resources are limited and that they affect the very poorest people more than people like you who obviously don't rely on those services. There are costs to uncontrolled mass migration - that's all I'm saying.

I have said

No doubt migration has had its challenges

Who said that I cannot see that Melbourne is under stress, of course it is.

Migration has had its challenges and you can understand why people are questioning the intake in light of unemployment.  

But I guess you did not read that. You love arguing with yourself.



Michael
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Can this thread get back on topic before we get a visit from a mod with a key
It started with this:
There you go again Don. listening to what is in your head and reply accordingly. And then throws out the odd insult because you have nothing, as per usual you come across as a very angry man.
Michael never, ever misses an opportunity to show us all how morally superior he is.
don_dunstan
No it did not Don. It started because you could not let a innocuous comment slide by. So, there you go again blowing smoke.

Michael never, ever misses an opportunity to show us all how morally superior he is.

No not at all. Its not my fault you keep shooting yourself in the foot making inappropriate comments about ethnic groups. I don't even have to hold up a mirror, you are doing it to yourself.

This is the last thing I'll say on this topic

Good, since it was you who kicked this off.


Michael
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Michael never, ever misses an opportunity to show us all how morally superior he is.
"don_dunstan"
To judge from some of the remarks in this thread, he has a fair case.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
...

Well maybe not ungrateful, but you sure are hinting that I should be eternally grateful for being here.

...
mejhammers1
For Christ's sake, Michael, I never said that. Will you give it a rest!

I get up this morning and there's screeds from you (yet again) in two separate posts. Just leave me alone - alright?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Michael never, ever misses an opportunity to show us all how morally superior he is.
To judge from some of the remarks in this thread, he has a fair case.
Valvegear
A fair case - doing what? Asserting moral superiority because people don't think the same as he does? He made a complete fool of himself in the Black Lives Matter thread (that I stayed well away from) and now he's moving his Mother Superior tut-tutting over to this thread. Why? What gives him the right?

Newsflash, Valvegear: I'm actually allowed to have an opinion that's different from other people's without being sent off to a re-education camp... at least for the time being. And that's the whole topic of this thread, is how we have freedoms in this country that someone else desperately wants to take away from us.

Your beloved Labor Party is doing its darnest to make that happen with its ongoing love affair with the CCP and its brown paper bags; they've been infiltrated to an extent that the LNP couldn't even hope to get near. Witness Paul Keating late last year telling us we were being mean to the poor CCP while simultaineously serving on the board of one of their proto-government indstrumentalities.

I really hope they stay out of office for another 15 years at least because we really are doomed to be absorbed into the CCP sphere if they get into government again.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Wow!  That was the biggest bite I've ever seen. The red mist really descended.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
You're proof positive of that thesis, Michael. Your ancestors migrated to the UK in search of a better life and then when you moved you went to another anglo-centric English-speaking country yourself.
"don_dunstan"
How many years constitute the cut-off point where people don't have to be reminded any more about how lucky they are to have migrated here?
"Valvegear"


None, they filled out a form and where invited to come because they were seen to be adding value to the country, no luck about it, the country is lucky to have them doing what most Ozzies today would not do.

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