The China Problem

 
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Talking of Macca's, China's insatiable appetite for beef might be killing off Brazil's cattle herd:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-08/brazil-cattle-herd-boost-for-china-demand/100115076


Incidentally, Australia's cattle herd is the lowest since 1995 (due to drought and subsequent herd sell-off). Supply will be tight as they rebuild numbers.

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  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
So private individuals and companies can be given a free pass to bullybbut not countries. McDonald's has a turnover similar to PNGs GDP AFAIK so it's AOK for them but not for our northern neighbours to go swinging their weight around?
billybaxter
So does McDonalds demand exemptions from Australian laws? Do they demand the government shut down any adverse media coverage of their activities in Australia?

Honestly, Billy, what you're arguing there is just plain stupid.
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

These people have been talking up war with china, Morrison Dutton & Pezzullo

https://www.theage.com.au/world/asia/ill-disciplined-chest-thumping-has-put-war-at-centre-of-what-s-left-of-the-australia-china-relationship-20210507-p57pr5.html

Again... not fit to be Prime Minister
  Carnot Minister for Railways

KRudd chiming in again?

There seems to be lots of defenders of the CCP among the ALP...
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
KRudd - unfit to have been a PM.
  SinickleBird Assistant Commissioner

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
K Rudd and M Turnbull both receive too much media coverage - they had their chance, now it’s time to STFU.

I have developed great respect for Julia Gillard, who has handled retirement from politics with dignity while remaining active.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
These people have been talking up war with china, Morrison Dutton & Pezzullo

https://www.theage.com.au/world/asia/ill-disciplined-chest-thumping-has-put-war-at-centre-of-what-s-left-of-the-australia-china-relationship-20210507-p57pr5.html

Again... not fit to be Prime Minister
doyle
Rubbish! The Chinese feel as though they have the right to say whatever they want about us and their leaders - but we can't reciprocate or they'll threaten trade.

And China have singled out Dutton in the past for extra special criticism only 12 months ago because he dared to suggest an independent investigation into the source of COVID19:

A spokesperson for the Chinese embassy in Canberra had responded to Mr Dutton's call for more transparency about the origins of the coronavirus.

"Obviously he must have also received some instructions from Washington requiring him to co-operate with the US in its propaganda war against China," the spokesperson said.

(SBS, 22/4/2020)

And all that Dutton has said recently was that Australia needed to be prepared for any and all eventualities - and that maybe selling the Port of Darwin to a Red Army-linked company was a bad idea (which it was).

You seriously think that's war mongering? Yet again (as Carnot just mentioned) people like Kevin Rudd writing in Fairfax/Nine today about how we needed to suck up to China and part of that means being 'polite' and not allowing bad things to be printed about them in the media. Which is exactly what the Communist Party wants - a government that stops the media or anyone else in politics from printing bad things about the CCP.

Why is it always Labor politicians who say we're being unfair to a dictatorship? Frankly Rudd is a vomit stain in the history of Australian Prime Minister anyway - and he's still bleating like a sore loser at Murdoch for refusing to endorse him in the 2013 election.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Hillary Clinton this week giving a speech about how the means of production should be taken back from China and that China used its position to steal intellectual property and game international trade systems unfairly.... she also says that they joined the World Trade Organisation but refused to follow the rules, therefore their membership should be taken back.

If only she had used this line in 2016, she (still) might have been President!

  doyle Deputy Commissioner

I reckon we agree about how s h i t China is and the way they want special treatment and the way they treat others, no argument there.

its the cumbersome and dangerous way Scroto and Dutton are going about it.
I did say dangerous... yes I did

The spratly Islands needed extensions, Kiribati needs a new airport right?

I'm sure if Australia looked after our own backyard properly instead of helping NO ONE in the indo pacific, and china approached our neighbours with belt and road, the family of neighbours would of scoffed at China RIGHT. we are in this position from our own doing as long as Australia was in budgetary surplus

Australia is not good at being neighbourly

Australia has had years to fortify borders sadly we had done not much, we rely to heavily on so called friends rather that ourselves it's quite sad really

Please don't get hung up over me saying warmonger, it's gunna be a khaki election
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I reckon we agree about how s h i t China is and the way they want special treatment and the way they treat others, no argument there.

its the cumbersome and dangerous way Scroto and Dutton are going about it.
I did say dangerous... yes I did

The spratly Islands needed extensions, Kiribati needs a new airport right?

I'm sure if Australia looked after our own backyard properly instead of helping NO ONE in the indo pacific, and china approached our neighbours with belt and road, the family of neighbours would of scoffed at China RIGHT. we are in this position from our own doing as long as Australia was in budgetary surplus

Australia is not good at being neighbourly

Australia has had years to fortify borders sadly we had done not much, we rely to heavily on so called friends rather that ourselves it's quite sad really

Please don't get hung up over me saying warmonger, it's gunna be a khaki election
doyle
We certainly have sent aid and helped with infrastructure in the Pacific before - remember how we sent police to the Pacific at various times that governments were breaking down (Operation Ramsi). We've also built airports and ports for various Pacific states - but the fact is that we simply don't have the very deep pockets that the Communist Party has, nor do we have the political will to enslave those countries in debts that they can't pay.

Australia does not deserve to be threatened in the manner in which China is threatening us - we are a liberal democracy with a history of a rule of law and fairness. The Communist Party of China is an existential threat to our way of life - they want the extinguishing of freedom of the press, the right to by-pass Australian laws that they don't like and the right to buy and sell any assets that they fancy for strategic advantage (despite the fact that this is not reciprocal).

At the moment the Communist Party is trying to deter any western nation from coming to the rescue of democratic Taiwan - they've made it pretty clear they intend to invade sometime soon: News.com.au;

The editor of a Chinese newspaper considered to be a mouthpiece of the Communist dictatorship has said Beijing should consider “long range strikes” directed at Australia.

Editor-in-chief of the stridently pro-Communist Global Times newspaper, Hu Xijin, made the extraordinary comments in an editorial advising Beijing how it should react should Australia join the US in protecting democratic Taiwan from invasion.

“Australia must know what disasters it would cause to their country,” he said in the tub-thumping piece published late on Friday.

Writing in the Global Times, Mr Hu said that Australian “hawks” were “hyping or hinting” that Australia would help the US should a military conflict occur in the Taiwan Straits.

“I suggest China make a plan to impose retaliatory punishment against Australia once it militarily interferes in the cross-Straits situation,” he said.

“The plan should include long-range strikes on the military facilities and relevant key facilities on Australian soil if it really sends its troops to China’s offshore areas and combats against the People’s Liberation Army.”

Any assistance to the US in Taiwan would be “irresponsible,” he added.

“China loves peace and will not take the initiative to pick a fight with faraway Australia, but Australian hawks must be clear-minded.

“If they are bold enough to co-ordinate with the US to militarily interfere in the Taiwan question and send troops to the Taiwan Straits to wage war with the PLA, they must know what disasters they would cause to their country.”

LOL - as if China is a 'peace loving country' - they've been waging war against Tibet, Hong Kong and their own people for 70 years. If we allow Taiwan - a country not historically connected to mainland China despite what the Communist Party says - to fall into the Red Army's hands then the Party probably won't stop there.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Reading this weekend there have been fleet movements from Europe and the USA toward the South China Sea. Many con ties getting involved in a multinational surface fleet transit of the South China Sea.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
This place people are calling 'Taiwan', the government there considers this term offensive because it implies they are a province of P.R.C. Also, they call themselves Republic of China because they believe that they are the true and rightful government of the mainland. Yet in Australia, a continent away, we have people on this very board claiming moral righteous-ness for so called standing up for the independent little man. It's historically the same country, we just have a dispute about which government should be ruling the whole lot. Barracking for the underdog always looks good when you don't have any real interest in the fight.
  georges Chief Train Controller

The Unfinished Chinese Civil War. An interesting take (September 2020) from the Lowy Institute.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Elon Musk abandons plants to build a large Tesla plant in China because of the deteriorating relationship between the USA and China - and a change of mind from the Party about Tesla. Zero Hedge;

The company reportedly halted plans to buy land to expand its manufacturing facility and turn it into a worldwide export hub due to "trade tensions" between the U.S. and China. The company currently uses its China facility to export to Europe, "Tesla now intends to limit the proportion of China output," Reuters reported.

But we can't help but notice: there have been "trade tensions" between the U.S. and China throughout the last few years anyway. Could it be that halting the expansion of the facility was a result of growing tensions between China and Tesla, and not China and the U.S.?

Recall, just days ago, we highlighted yet another deadly crash involving a Tesla - this one in China. And the country's state-run Global Times was quick to shame the automaker as a result. It published a horrifying image of a Tesla vehicle rear-ending a truck in Shaoguan, South China's Guangdong Province on Friday, "killing the electric car's driver on the spot." Tesla's image is deteriorating in China as state media continue to publicize braking failures. The risk here is Musk's Chinese fairy tale could eventually come to an end. In late April, we noted that Chinese state media suggested that the automaker's sales could be "doomed."



Tesla's sales in China ARE doomed if the Party decides they are, that's how it works there.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The neighbourhood has new friends

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/as-china-freezes-out-australia-the-superpower-befriends-indonesia-20210510-p57qjf.html#comments
doyle
Good diplomacy on the part of the CCP, we should take a leaf out of their book.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Good read          

 https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/05/china-paper-dragon/618778/
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Good read          

The United States is hardly trouble-free, but if you had to choose either set of troubles, you’d surely rather face the American list than the Chinese. That’s why ... U.S. policy makers should look to the future with a little more confidence and a lot more trust in trade, markets, and the superior potential of a free people under an elected government.
wobert
(My emphasis)
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

This place people are calling 'Taiwan', the government there considers this term offensive because it implies they are a province of P.R.C. Also, they call themselves Republic of China because they believe that they are the true and rightful government of the mainland. Yet in Australia, a continent away, we have people on this very board claiming moral righteous-ness for so called standing up for the independent little man. It's historically the same country, we just have a dispute about which government should be ruling the whole lot. Barracking for the underdog always looks good when you don't have any real interest in the fight.
billybaxter
I agree completely, it is important to recognise that neither the Communist government based in Beijing or the Capitalist government based in Taipei has renounced its claim to the entirety of Chinese territory.

Australia should adopt a studiously neutral stance rather than picking either side.
- Use the formal names of the Republic of China and People's Republic of China respectively.
- Accredit equal numbers of diplomats from both to their embassy and consulates within Australia.
- Maintain equally sized diplomatic missions in both capitals.
- Grant an equal number of entry visas to citizens of both.
- Import an equal amount goods from both with no more than ±2% variation in any year and the imbalance not permitted to go the same way for more than two consecutive years before going the other way.
- Permit an equal total value of minority investments in Australian property from both.
-Advocate for both to have equal representation in the United Nations (including the Security Council - both in or both out) and other international organisations.

Australia's position should be that a two state solution shall persist until such time as there is a peace treaty formalising the two state solution and extinguishing all overlapping territorial claims, or until a free and fair referendum (subject to international observation) on the question of unification achieves a supermajority of support in both.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
This place people are calling 'Taiwan', the government there considers this term offensive because it implies they are a province of P.R.C. Also, they call themselves Republic of China because they believe that they are the true and rightful government of the mainland. Yet in Australia, a continent away, we have people on this very board claiming moral righteous-ness for so called standing up for the independent little man. It's historically the same country, we just have a dispute about which government should be ruling the whole lot. Barracking for the underdog always looks good when you don't have any real interest in the fight.
I agree completely, it is important to recognise that neither the Communist government based in Beijing or the Capitalist government based in Taipei has renounced its claim to the entirety of Chinese territory.

Australia should adopt a studiously neutral stance rather than picking either side.
- Use the formal names of the Republic of China and People's Republic of China respectively.
- Accredit equal numbers of diplomats from both to their embassy and consulates within Australia.
- Maintain equally sized diplomatic missions in both capitals.
- Grant an equal number of entry visas to citizens of both.
- Import an equal amount goods from both with no more than ±2% variation in any year and the imbalance not permitted to go the same way for more than two consecutive years before going the other way.
- Permit an equal total value of minority investments in Australian property from both.
-Advocate for both to have equal representation in the United Nations (including the Security Council - both in or both out) and other international organisations.

Australia's position should be that a two state solution shall persist until such time as there is a peace treaty formalising the two state solution and extinguishing all overlapping territorial claims, or until a free and fair referendum (subject to international observation) on the question of unification achieves a supermajority of support in both.
justapassenger
You knew even when you were writing that it is impossible - the CCP have made the conditions of us having a normalised trade relationship with them is dropping anything and everything that they find offensive (eg independent Taiwan).

Something funny is going on with the iron ore price, AU$225 a ton - it really isn't that valuable, I'd say there's some kind of pump-and-dump thing happening? Who knows.
  doyle Deputy Commissioner
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dik_wnOE4dk
doyle
This brutal murderous state has managed to successfully land a rover vehicle on mars.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Australia's position should be ...
justapassenger

We're pretty relaxed here in Australia.  I think our position should be "Emperor, mate, you're new dacks look great!"

Unfortunately our recent diplomatic efforts seem to come from a bunch of self righteous hypocrites from the Hillsong Church who think revealing clothing gives them the right to cast aspersions, or worse.  Just ask Brittany Higgins.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
This brutal murderous state has managed to successfully land a rover vehicle on mars.
nswtrains
Hitler made the first ever supersonic ballistic missile; Khrushchev launched the first ever artificial satellite. And your point is?

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