Daniel Andrews Imploding Act

 
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
For heaven's sake; dump the contaminated soil up in the sunset country west of Nowingi, where its deserted.

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  doyle Chief Commissioner

I'm pretty sure the Striated Grasswren would be affected, VG
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
For heaven's sake; dump the contaminated soil up in the sunset country west of Nowingi, where its deserted.
Valvegear
Nah, dump it in inner city Smelbourne where it belongs LaughingLaughingLaughing

Yarra Park seems to be at a bit of a loose end these days as driving to the Gee is frowned upon, chuck it in there.

How many MCGs worth is there? Or is contaminated soil measured in Sydney Harbours?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
How many MCGs worth is there? Or is contaminated soil measured in Sydney Harbours?
YM-Mundrabilla
The official measurement is how many Mount Newports it could make.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
For heaven's sake; dump the contaminated soil up in the sunset country west of Nowingi, where its deserted.
Valvegear
There's three million tonnes of the stuff that will need to be removed for the Westgate Tunnel project - and its contaminated with PFAS (amongst other stuff like heavy metals) and there's no official safe way of storing or disposing of it which is why this thing is dragging out.

Personally I agree with the locals at Bacchus Marsh etc that don't want it dumped there given there's no proven safe method of storage. You can't just dump it in the Mallee and make it into the problem of the people who live there, slowly leaching away into their water table killing the locals. Why can't Melbourne find a spot for its own contaminated soil?
  skitz Chief Commissioner

For heaven's sake; dump the contaminated soil up in the sunset country west of Nowingi, where its deserted.
There's three million tonnes of the stuff that will need to be removed for the Westgate Tunnel project - and its contaminated with PFAS (amongst other stuff like heavy metals) and there's no official safe way of storing or disposing of it which is why this thing is dragging out.

Personally I agree with the locals at Bacchus Marsh etc that don't want it dumped there given there's no proven safe method of storage. You can't just dump it in the Mallee and make it into the problem of the people who live there, slowly leaching away into their water table killing the locals. Why can't Melbourne find a spot for its own contaminated soil?
don_dunstan
I wonder what prevents such waste being added to the overburden dumps at Yallourn and Loy Yang.   Clay abound to cap and contain.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

If a method of concentrating the PFAS into a smaller volume can be found, it could then be enclosed in sealed containers rather than dumped outdoors.

Sealed containers can be stored anywhere - even locations in the electoral district of Mulgrave could be considered for the facility.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Mix it with iron ore and send it to China.
Alternatively give/sell it to the Chinese so that they can build a naval base on an island in Port Phillip Bay as part of Belt and whatever .............
  Upven Junior Train Controller

One quick Google shows you that the companies offering services to treat/destroy PFAS are already the ones the government has contracts with in some way (Veolia, GHD, Cleanaway). I guess there's just no will to do anything about it.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
The former Gas and Fuel Corporation site at the junction of Alexandra Parade and Smith Street in Fitzroy has had a giant tent-like structure over it for well over a year whist soil remediation is taking place.
I don't have any details of the contaminants or the time frame, but I will try to find some - I'm curious.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The former Gas and Fuel Corporation site at the junction of Alexandra Parade and Smith Street in Fitzroy has had a giant tent-like structure over it for well over a year whist soil remediation is taking place.
I don't have any details of the contaminants or the time frame, but I will try to find some - I'm curious.
Valvegear
I have a mate who is an expert on remediation of soils from poisons - he did have some expertise in that area but has moved on to other engineering stuff now. However we've never discussed this particular conundrum for the VIC government, I'm guessing this kind of contamination is really hard to remove using electrolysis (which is only good for heavy metals). I must ask him if there's any possibility of chemical remediation on PFAS but I'm guessing 'no'.

Justapassenger suggest some kind of permanent storage in containers but there's three million tonnes of the stuff so you're looking at big bucks, probably some purpose built facility somewhere.

Did they seriously not think of the possibility of contamination before they put this out to tender? Terrible blunder if so.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
The former Gas and Fuel Corporation site at the junction of Alexandra Parade and Smith Street in Fitzroy has had a giant tent-like structure over it for well over a year whist soil remediation is taking place.
I don't have any details of the contaminants or the time frame, but I will try to find some - I'm curious.
I have a mate who is an expert on remediation of soils from poisons - he did have some expertise in that area but has moved on to other engineering stuff now. However we've never discussed this particular conundrum for the VIC government, I'm guessing this kind of contamination is really hard to remove using electrolysis (which is only good for heavy metals). I must ask him if there's any possibility of chemical remediation on PFAS but I'm guessing 'no'.

Justapassenger suggest some kind of permanent storage in containers but there's three million tonnes of the stuff so you're looking at big bucks, probably some purpose built facility somewhere.

Did they seriously not think of the possibility of contamination before they put this out to tender? Terrible blunder if so.
don_dunstan
The possibility of contamination was in the tender,  and agreed.
But that was for the usual industrial crap, heavy metal etc

PFAS wasn't on the naughty list at the time, nor was it expected to be much at the tunnel site.

2 things changed.
  • EPA finally woke up that all the CFA trainees getting sick and suing, was real, and so is the danger of PFAS exposure.
  • Sampling on the west side of the Maribynong showed that PFAS was leeching across from Goode island after some very big fires being put out, using that crap.


Note: the tunnel is no-where near Coode Island, as some arm-chair experts have written. But it's a different world under the surface.

The argument continues about who will pay to fix the unforeseen.

cheers
John
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
John,
Simple answer to who will pay - US!
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Note: the tunnel is no-where near Coode Island, as some arm-chair experts have written. But it's a different world under the surface.
justarider
Yeah I noticed that a while back when looking at this map from the official project website. You'd have to assume the PFAS from the Coode Island fire has spread quite a bit - very alarming really.

EDIT: One thing I didn't notice before was a very long tunnel traveling under the Westgate Fwy all the way to the freight line in Kingsville - not sure why they did that. Presumably this forms part of the 'problem' spoil that they're trying to get rid of?

  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Any PFAS from the Coode Island fire has had nearly 20 years to spread wherever it wanted to go carried by the Yarra - the fire was in August 1991.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Any PFAS from the Coode Island fire has had nearly 20 years to spread wherever it wanted to go carried by the Yarra - the fire was in August 1991.
Valvegear
Not quite.

EPA might be late to the party, but even 30 (more like 60) years ago, contamination was not allowed to escape to the river.
Big retaining embankments around each tank.

When a spill, it's supposed to keep the nasties on site until mopped up. Good economics when you can save and re-cycle valuable petro-chemicals.

BUT, in a fire it's just a whole lot of "water" ain't it !  
Nothing to be saved, just let it soak into the ground. We are now finding out how well that worked, NOT.

The diagram @don provided shows the tunnel launch site. That hole has been fully dug. Also bridge foundations on the east end.
A lot of the spoil was safely removed and dumped(cant think of a better word).

Near the end of these tasks, soil samples starting showing up PFAS. That crap is still on-site under tarps. Too scared to move it.

cheers
John
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Getting into X-Files territory now....

  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Interesting rumours are circulating about Daniel and his injury and how it eventuated.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Rumours have been circulating for months. As Sir Humphrey said, "Well, let's not worry about it until they become more than rumours."
Political rumour-mongering has been a well known Australian sport for decades.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Rumours have been circulating for months. As Sir Humphrey said, "Well, let's not worry about it until they become more than rumours."
Political rumour-mongering has been a well known Australian sport for decades.
Valvegear
On the other hand Sir Humphrey also said:

'Never believe anything until it has been officially denied'.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
For heaven's sake; dump the contaminated soil up in the sunset country west of Nowingi, where its deserted.
Nah, dump it in inner city Smelbourne where it belongs LaughingLaughingLaughing

Yarra Park seems to be at a bit of a loose end these days as driving to the Gee is frowned upon, chuck it in there.

How many MCGs worth is there? Or is contaminated soil measured in Sydney Harbours?
BrentonGolding
I suggest that they dump it in those new tunnels under Melbourne which are currently unused.

There are several volumetric measure as far as I know. In ascending order they are:
  • Double decker busses
  • Olympic swimming pools
  • MCGs
  • Sydney Harbours
I am unsure of the conversion factor of any of these into Yarra Parks.

On the other hand if you are weighing the stuff the measuring units are:
  • Rhinoceroses
  • Trams
  • Aircraft carriers
Only one conversion factor has ever been published that I know of where 17 rhinoceroses = 1 tram IIRC.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
The tin foil hat brigade strike again.

These parasites are taking this straight out of the Donald Trump playbook. First, stoke the fires of the conspiracy theory nutters to get a baseless rumour to blow up in mainstream media, the when this is inevitably denied with irrefutable evidence, the next step will be to just start a chant of "Lock him up" all while completely ignoring and denying the actual truth of it all.

We really like to follow horrible american fads in this country, I just hoped this political bullshirt wasn't one of them.

New Zealand is really looking good these days.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean
Rumours have been circulating for months. As Sir Humphrey said, "Well, let's not worry about it until they become more than rumours."
Political rumour-mongering has been a well known Australian sport for decades.
Valvegear
...and a favourite pastime of bevans.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Rumours have been circulating for months. As Sir Humphrey said, "Well, let's not worry about it until they become more than rumours."
Political rumour-mongering has been a well known Australian sport for decades.
Valvegear

It is interesting when you consider Luke Sayers has recently resigned from the CEO Role at PWC.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Getting into X-Files territory now....

Carnot
And that is why I will never vote for a bunch of Conspiracy Theory, Culture war BS artists. Dan Andrews 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th for me.

Can we have some moderate realistic Liberals in Victoria, please?


Michael

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