The road to 100

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 03 Jul 2020 09:40
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

It makes zero sense to start buying shorter trams. There are plenty of B class routes that could suck up those 100 Es. Keep in mind that the existing plan was already for 150 E class.

Or are these 100 extra trams on top of the 150?

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  tram1041 Station Master

Hey all,
            There will be no E's allocated to the current Essendon depot site as it is,due to space requirements although there is room available if they wanted it.It would be  be easily fixed by removing all of the current staff parking and building a deck over the outside roads and either just adding more storage roads in to the existing or rebuilding the whole yard to fit them.The E's that will be on the 58 will be running from Southbank via Spencer & Latrobe st then William st, shunt at Dudley sttowards Toorak,the other option being via Clrendon st,Park/Sturt st then Kingsway.As far as tram order numbers go the original order way back was for  150 E class total with the last 50 to be the new design.As far as the depot/maintenance facility goes there is a big possibility it will be in Airport West. Also to note that Bwk depot is being expanded with new roads being built on the existing car park to get ready for a large increase in tram allocation,possibly taking over full operation of route 6 as a stand alone route and possibly of helping with bigger trams on the 59 as well.The carpark is being moved to next to the rail viaduct.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

My guess is that it will be 50 E2s (or E3s) and 50 F class trams

E3s is they want to make any modifications to the cab or the like, otherwise the E2 will suffice

F class trams would be the same design as E2, but with an additional middle car to make it ~45m. Routes 96/109 would take the F class trams, letting E2s cascade down the line with the additional E2s built. B2 class trams would fill out the remaining network.

edit: By my count (vicsig) there's 69 A class trams and 111 Z class trams. 180 total to be replaced. Really should be looking at ordering 100 E class and 100 F class to replace these. (F class going to routes 75,86,96,119)
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Airport West is an obvious choice of location, but I was thinking the Maribynong defense site would have been another. Plenty of space and route 57 and 82 both run directly past it.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

I think the same.  The depot access run of route 57 is a bit too complicated.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

My guess is that it will be 50 E2s (or E3s) and 50 F class trams

E3s is they want to make any modifications to the cab or the like, otherwise the E2 will suffice

F class trams would be the same design as E2, but with an additional middle car to make it ~45m. Routes 96/109 would take the F class trams, letting E2s cascade down the line with the additional E2s built. B2 class trams would fill out the remaining network.

edit: By my count (vicsig) there's 69 A class trams and 111 Z class trams. 180 total to be replaced. Really should be looking at ordering 100 E class and 100 F class to replace these. (F class going to routes 75,86,96,119)
John.Z
Trams longer than the E class will mean a lot of platform stops needing to be rebuilt, so I think that is a fair way off and the 19 and 96 are probably the only routes where trams longer than the E are justified.

I also don't think we will see exactly 1-for-1 replacement. 100 new E class should be able to account for all of the remaining Z3s: remember there are still 10 ordered yet to be delivered...so that is 110 more assuming that the total order is now 200.

If the extra 100 is on top of the 150 already committed to, then that is 160 more to come from this point (60 more to come under the existing commitment). That should also be enough to knock off the A class as well.

My guess as well that a longer version of the E will simply be called E3 or E4...as they did with the C2 and D2.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
My guess is that it will be 50 E2s (or E3s) and 50 F class trams

E3s is they want to make any modifications to the cab or the like, otherwise the E2 will suffice

F class trams would be the same design as E2, but with an additional middle car to make it ~45m. Routes 96/109 would take the F class trams, letting E2s cascade down the line with the additional E2s built. B2 class trams would fill out the remaining network.

edit: By my count (vicsig) there's 69 A class trams and 111 Z class trams. 180 total to be replaced. Really should be looking at ordering 100 E class and 100 F class to replace these. (F class going to routes 75,86,96,119)
Trams longer than the E class will mean a lot of platform stops needing to be rebuilt, so I think that is a fair way off and the 19 and 96 are probably the only routes where trams longer than the E are justified.

I also don't think we will see exactly 1-for-1 replacement. 100 new E class should be able to account for all of the remaining Z3s: remember there are still 10 ordered yet to be delivered...so that is 110 more assuming that the total order is now 200.

If the extra 100 is on top of the 150 already committed to, then that is 160 more to come from this point (60 more to come under the existing commitment). That should also be enough to knock off the A class as well.

My guess as well that a longer version of the E will simply be called E3 or E4...as they did with the C2 and D2.
Mr. Lane
They will need to do a 1-for-1 replacement if they wish to maintain the frequency on all routes.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

The original 2010 order was for 50 trams, with options on another 100. Those 50 were the E-class. The subsequent dribs and drabs orders from 2015 were for E2-class. As well as ordering E2-class, the 2019 Budget had a vague reference to “design and develop Next Generation Trams”. Supposedly the E-class was designed with the option of a fourth module (may be behind a paywall):

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/supersize-my-tram-45metre-trams-foreshadowed-for-melbournes-busiest-routes-20151120-gl3uoh.html

Is Dudley Street long enough for an E-class? It would be difficult to extend St Vincents Plaza to accommodate longer trams.
  tram1041 Station Master

The original 2010 order was for 50 trams, with options on another 100. Those 50 were the E-class. The subsequent dribs and drabs orders from 2015 were for E2-class. As well as ordering E2-class, the 2019 Budget had a vague reference to “design and develop Next Generation Trams”. Supposedly the E-class was designed with the option of a fourth module (may be behind a paywall):

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/supersize-my-tram-45metre-trams-foreshadowed-for-melbournes-busiest-routes-20151120-gl3uoh.html

Is Dudley Street long enough for an E-class? It would be difficult to extend St Vincents Plaza to accommodate longer trams.
kitchgp
Hey all,

          The Dudley st terminus/shunt was totally rebuilt and lengthened to fit E Class in when the William st relay was done.

                               Regards Tim
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Has there been new north-west curves installed at William / LaTrobe?  Otherwise it will be easier to shunt at Elizabeth St. to car out for Toorak, or indeed build a pair of south-west curves at Collins / Williams.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

The corner of La Trobe and William Streets has a NW connection.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

That must be a new one, but I believe accessing the Dudley St. siding requires crossing the general traffic lanes which will be stressing to do on a daily basis, or Southbank can take up all the runs that begin service at West Coburg with Malvern doing the other end.
  tram1041 Station Master

Hey all,

            The N/W curves have been there for at least 3 years,maybe longer,it was put in so that Essendon cars can access Marvel Stadium for footy extras and other special events and also to go to from Southbank for maintenance.As far as the access to the siding goes this has been sorted out when the track relay was done and it is now controlled by by signals and auto points.Also it will not be in use all the time only for the run in/out for the  Southbank E's.
  tram1041 Station Master

Hey all,
            Forgot to add that the E Class will be taking over all Malvern runs which means no more D Class & Z3's unless Essendon use one on occasion,and the service will be run by Essendon,Southbank & city hub drivers.This will allow the D1's to be better used across all Malvern routes,also with the upcoming Bwk depot upgrade including up to 7 more storage rds resulting in a huge increase in tram allocations,more route re orginization looks likely.
  themetptc Junior Train Controller

Location: Ballarat
La Trobe and William St intersection was renewed with the additional curves in June 2008.
Regarding Brunswick depot: jeepers, news hot of the press. These comments about the extension was first I've seen/heard, they were echoed by a couple of friends well in the know a couple of days ago. Going to turn it into a mega depot (like South Melbourne was supposed to be), perhaps beating New Preston.
A mega depot is whats missing in the South Eastern suburbs, one that can provide high capacity trams for the 16, which really needs it.
Sin
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Do hub drivers only work at tram hub?  What about the shifts that car out from a depot and get relieved at tram hub or v.v.?  With the driver get paid to travel by tram to home depot?  I don't mind that but that doesn't seem like an increased efficiency in work force.
  themetptc Junior Train Controller

Location: Ballarat
From what I've been told/or read, hub drivers only work from hub, they don't car in or car out. If a driver from a home tram depot gets taken by a hub driver in the city then they have their meal at the hub. Once they finish their meal break they take another driver in the city and finish their shift at their home tram depot.
Sim

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