Standard Gauge VLocity

 
  mflucas2 Beginner

Location: Melbourne
I can across the designs for the new standard gauge VLocity trains on TrainReview - very similar to current VLocity's with a cafe car. It's a shame they chose not to have a first class car.

Does anyone know if VLine plan to make broad gauge versions of these trains for Bairnsdale / Warrnambool etc?

https://trainreview.com/news/victoria-unveils-long-distance-vlocity-dmu-designs

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  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I can across the designs for the new standard gauge VLocity trains on TrainReview - very similar to current VLocity's with a cafe car. It's a shame they chose not to have a first class car.

Does anyone know if VLine plan to make broad gauge versions of these trains for Bairnsdale / Warrnambool etc?
mflucas2

This will help a lot https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11386472.htm
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

The VLocity seats are the eqv of 1st class on the loco hauled carriages.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The VLocity seats are the eqv of 1st class on the loco hauled carriages.
John.Z
But minus the free rollercoaster ride.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
And the high ambient noise from the engines.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Not to mention the demolition derby caused by rooted couplers and draft gear
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

I wonder if Bombardier simply took the expedient approach here. I would have designed a more modern diesel electric train for the job. The Vlocity design goes back to 2003 (operational) and that in tern was based on the Explorer & Endeavour trains which were mid 1990's technology.

The design of the new NSW country trains is based on the current CAFS trains from the UK and Europe. Surely Bombarider have a more modern "off the shelf" design they can use here.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
V/Line has phased out first class ever since the Introduction of the Vlocity railcars.

Had there been demand for first class, I would of been Introduced years ago.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
I wonder if Bombardier simply took the expedient approach here. I would have designed a more modern diesel electric train for the job. The Vlocity design goes back to 2003 (operational) and that in tern was based on the Explorer & Endeavour trains which were mid 1990's technology.

The design of the new NSW country trains is based on the current CAFS trains from the UK and Europe. Surely Bombarider have a more modern "off the shelf" design they can use here.
Duncs
Bombardier simply took the money on offer. They have no interest in re-inventing the wheel.

It was up to the Victorian Government to decide what to go with and they chose the status quo.

Those few hundred votes, oh sorry, jobs in Dandenong are pure gold for Bombardier.

Oh, and before anyone asks, I am a big supporter of local manufacturing but I am totally against rent seeking and pork barrelling one or both of which may or may not be at play here.......
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

I wonder if Bombardier simply took the expedient approach here. I would have designed a more modern diesel electric train for the job. The Vlocity design goes back to 2003 (operational) and that in tern was based on the Explorer & Endeavour trains which were mid 1990's technology.

The design of the new NSW country trains is based on the current CAFS trains from the UK and Europe. Surely Bombarider have a more modern "off the shelf" design they can use here.
Bombardier simply took the money on offer. They have no interest in re-inventing the wheel.

It was up to the Victorian Government to decide what to go with and they chose the status quo.

Those few hundred votes, oh sorry, jobs in Dandenong are pure gold for Bombardier.

Oh, and before anyone asks, I am a big supporter of local manufacturing but I am totally against rent seeking and pork barrelling one or both of which may or may not be at play here.......
BrentonGolding
Exactly. Bombardier is building as directed by the State Government.


Michael
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
V/Line has phased out first class ever since the Introduction of the Vlocity railcars.

Had there been demand for first class, It would of been Introduced years ago.
Nightfire

First Class has been around since Stephenson invented the 'Rocket'.

Apart from Echuca and now Bairnsdale, V'Locity's have only travelled as far as Myki goes, this is why there was no refresh either.

However in 'normal' times, utilisation of First class is higher than many think, especially as it's only $8.00 more than Economy.

My feeling is because a lot of rolling stock is ordered by people who don't travel on the trains, hence the hard bus like seats in some later V'Locity's, there's little thought given to the details apart from the 'nanny state' stuff and quietly forgotten by V/Line as it's one less issue for conductors dealing with recalcitrants and other ne'er-do-wells.

Will there for example be compulsory seat bookings etc. These days when travelling to/from Swan Hill, COVID patronage notwithstanding, I prefer to sit in the smoother riding Z car for non-compulsory seat bookings and ignore the compulsory seat booking on my ticket.

Mike.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Will there for example be compulsory seat bookings etc. These days when travelling to/from Swan Hill, COVID patronage notwithstanding, I prefer to sit in the smoother riding Z car for non-compulsory seat bookings and ignore the compulsory seat booking on my ticket.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Back in the day (the day being before Covid when enough people travelled on the AM Down Swanners to fill a carriage or 3) it was quite common to have people with reserved seats riding 'up the front' with us Myki zone riff raff. I doubt many of them even noticed the ride quality but were instead trying to get far away from the maddening crowd. The Connie would sometimes point out that they had an allocated seat but they would just shrug their shoulders and get back to their smart phone.

BTW some people may not be aware that V/Locities are fully set up for reserved seating with seat numbers and rows marked above the windows similar to those on a plane. All you would need to do is mark the car as First Class, charge the extra fare and Bob's your Auntie's live in lover!

Oh, and you would need the Connie to check tickets of course not hide in the rear driver's compartment for the whole trip only coming out to do the platform work like they do ATM leaving us poor pax to deal with the above mentioned neer-dees ourselves.

(I know they are not checking tix due to covid but I thought they were there for our safety as well, in the last few weeks they seem to have stopped even walking the train)
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Took a first class ticket recently from Melbourne to Benalla and the coach was very full.

I am almost wondering BG if we need a VLOCITY set or two on the SG but not the longer distance versions?  

I am not and will never be a fan of the velocity longer distance idea we could do a lot better.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

I think tiered class would be welcome on long distance services.  The VLocity first class could have 1+2 seating all facing direction of travel as many European trains do.  Again, walk through consist would further perfect the design so that economy class standees could pay the difference to the conductor and walk through to the first class, providing it has surplus capacity.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
V/Line has phased out first class ever since the Introduction of the Vlocity railcars.

Had there been demand for first class, It would of been Introduced years ago.

First Class has been around since Stephenson invented the 'Rocket'.

Apart from Echuca and now Bairnsdale, V'Locity's have only travelled as far as Myki goes, this is why there was no refresh either.

However in 'normal' times, utilisation of First class is higher than many think, especially as it's only $8.00 more than Economy.

My feeling is because a lot of rolling stock is ordered by people who don't travel on the trains, hence the hard bus like seats in some later V'Locity's, there's little thought given to the details apart from the 'nanny state' stuff and quietly forgotten by V/Line as it's one less issue for conductors dealing with recalcitrants and other ne'er-do-wells.

Will there for example be compulsory seat bookings etc. These days when travelling to/from Swan Hill, COVID patronage notwithstanding, I prefer to sit in the smoother riding Z car for non-compulsory seat bookings and ignore the compulsory seat booking on my ticket.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Before the Vlocity's were Introduced, many trains to like Traralgon, Ballarat and Bendigo had first class available, today Ballarat has none, Traralgon has 2 services (Bairnsdale) and Bendigo ha 4 (Sawn Hill)
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I believe there is a big market for First Class as there is in all other countries.   Just out of interest is NSW offering First Class seating on their regional services?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Apart from Echuca and now Bairnsdale, V'Locity's have only travelled as far as Myki goes, this is why there was no refresh either.
The Vinelander
And Ararat/Maryborough.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Apart from Echuca and now Bairnsdale, V'Locity's have only travelled as far as Myki goes, this is why there was no refresh either.
And Ararat/Maryborough.
railblogger

Agreed, however I didn't include those destinations as they aren't as distant as Bairnsdale or Echuca.

Mike.
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
On the topic of first class, V/Line did receive some 'first class' Velocity seats for evaluation a while back. No idea of the outcome of the evaluation but they were a lot more comfortable than the current ones. Had adjustable headrests, reclined slightly and were made of a leather like material.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Perhaps they are not interested in the additional revenue of 8 dollars per passenger.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

If one wants to go for a different Inter City train type to the V/locity on the longer distance routes then Government would have to go through a detailed spec and tender evaluation process.  Whereas by simply modifying the V/Locity interiors it is regarded as a contract extension and contract variation.

From a maintenance and spare parts view it makes a lot of sense to have the same basic V/Locity train type with different interior layouts; Commuter & Inter City. Then on Warrnambool you can run 3 cars Inter City, topped up with 3 car Commuter set between Geelong and Melbourne, ditto on Bairnsdale and Swan Hill lines to Traralgon and Bendigo respectively. Also am Downs can do an early Up Commuter run on Weekdays for better fleet utilization.

Victoria is a small State and with Class 2 tracks beyond the Commuter Zone, and 160kmh operation within the  commuter Zone and 130kmh beyond no Inter City trip is going to be over 3 hrs 40 mins, so the Inter City V/Locity will be widely accepted and a vast improvement on the existing aged N/Z cars.
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
The VLocity seats are the eqv of 1st class on the loco hauled carriages.
John.Z

Are they?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I believe there is a big market for First Class as there is in all other countries.   Just out of interest is NSW offering First Class seating on their regional services?
bevans

Yep and in a 2+1 format. I think it might be called business class instead of first class and because it is diesel electric it will be much more amenable to the passenger with no whining gearbox or engine noise during acceleration.

edit: It is called premium class on the new regional fleet in NSW.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The Vic Government really only had 1 option to go with for this new regional Victorian SG fleet. Any hopes of it being a newer design were gone when the NSW Government went with the more modern CAF design which suited our needs but because of where it is made was never going to be viable for Victoria. The interior at least takes some design ideas from the new NSW fleet.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The Vic Government really only had 1 option to go with for this new regional Victorian SG fleet. Any hopes of it being a newer design were gone when the NSW Government went with the more modern CAF design which suited our needs but because of where it is made was never going to be viable for Victoria. The interior at least takes some design ideas from the new NSW fleet.
simstrain

Interesting can you elaborate further?

What would have prevented Victoria from tacking on an order?

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